EV Digest 4770
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Solar Trailer?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Solar Trailer?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: battery explosion, terminal connections
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: battery explosion, terminal connections
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Solar Trailer?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: battery explosion
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Designing for safety (was "Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy"
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Solar Trailer?
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: battery explosion, terminal connections
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: building from scratch
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Solar Trailer?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The problem that I saw with having the panels charge the pack directly is
for one you would need to separate the batteries and assign one to each
panel or wire all the panels in series to charge the pack. Last time I
looked at panels they were 12V so for say a 156 volt pack to charge it you
would need 180 volts or 15 panels. I think now you just got out of the
feasibility of the trailer concept. I was also thinking that maybe a 10KW
gas generator might work in that application. You could convert it to CNG
and maybe set it to run for 2 hours or maybe 3 at 240V to quickly charge the
pack. I would think that a 3 hour run would only burn maybe a gallon of
gas. Just a thought.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Chew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Solar Trailer?
I find this a very very interesting idea. Hmm. Its good for small ev's like
mine with very small range, 25km max. It could charge a small battery and
the battery could power an inverter than could be used to charge the
batteries. However, sorta wasting the solar energy. In-efficiencies with
battery absorbing charge roughly 70%, then conversion by the inverter
another 90% and then charger efficiency prob 70%. Better to just charge the
whole battery bank in parallel, but then might have problem with unequal
charging of the batteries.
Oh well. Will do some more pondering.
Robert
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)
Sent: 28 September 2005 21:34
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Solar Trailer?
What you could do is make the trailer run off of 2 Trojan L16HC batteries in
series for 24 volts and then have a 24 volt inverter change that to AC 240V
to run a charger or 115V for a charger. That way you could be down to 2
panels to charge the system and the L16HC batteries would have plenty of
capacity to run the charge cycle. You would also have to figure out some
kind of theft protection for the trailer - I myself would not feel
comfortable leaving a trailer with high dollar equipment in the parking lot
unattended.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
Oh yeah it does doesn't it. I'm glad I posted this here I hopefully would
have figured that out eventually but it makes the idea much more achievable
and practical with just panels on a trailer or stand alone frame of some
kind.
I could position it so that I'm there for the "good" hours of the panels.
Certainly would make it light so I could maybe tow it with the motorcycle
after folding up the panels and bring it home for the weekend or if I'm
taking a vacation for a week or two.
The batteries would really only help on say monday when it had saturday and
sunday to charge up all day if I had the additional capacity in the
batteries.
Thanks Again. This MC thing might just happen.
Mark Hastings
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really need
> power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar panels and
> some batteries at work and plugged in during the day?
Why would you need batteries? I assume you work during the daytime?
Unless you are going somewhere for lunch, your EV will be hooked up to the
panels during the only useful solar charging periods and, presumably, your
EV already has batteries, so...?
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shawn Rutledge
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Composite monocoque vs. sand buggy
<snip>
I've never rear-ended anybody because I'm usually very alert while driving
and a little paranoid, and IMO those accidents are caused by inadequate
brakes or inadequate attention.
</snip>
I'd like to add...... or ice. Which really comes back to inadequate attention,
but I thought I'd add it anyway.
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/28/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem that I saw with having the panels charge the pack directly is
> for one you would need to separate the batteries and assign one to each
> panel or wire all the panels in series to charge the pack. Last time I
> looked at panels they were 12V so for say a 156 volt pack to charge it you
> would need 180 volts or 15 panels.
The larger, more cost effective panels for grid connect are typically
50-60V MPP. Since this was for charging a streamlined motorbike
project, it will probably be a low voltage system such as 48V, so even
one of these panels would be suitable.
However if you do need to charge a high voltage pack and already have
12V panels, say, you could use the idea of Otmar and modify an
inverter to do the job.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/28/05, Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Evan Tuer wrote:
> >
> > I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only
> > produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then,
> > that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.
> >
>
> Evan,
>
> Does tracking pay off for you?
[cut]
> Did your array always track? Do you have a feel for how much tracking
> has added to your power production? Would you say that tracking is worth
> the added expense and complexity?
Hi Jim,
Well, it's a two-axis tracker and so far the results are pretty much
as expected - somewhere around 30% improvement to a fixed 30 degree
plane. I may be able to add a 1kW fixed array to get a direct
comparison.
Panels are expensive at the moment, so yes, I think it's worth it.
The tracker was home made and didn't cost very much (Thanks Paul for
the actuators!) - however if I had used a commercial tracker it
wouldn't have been cost effective with this size of array: the tracker
would have cost more than adding 20 or 30 percent more panel area.
Even if you just allow your panels to hinge up to 30 degrees
(manually) while parked and try to park so that side is facing south,
you'll make a huge improvement over flat mounting them. Making an
automatic system is probably a waste of effort for your bus roof
though.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How large of a panel is a 60V one? What is the current output capability?
I am thinking that even then you would have only about 2 amps max of output
current. To get enough to run the charger (240V 30 amp) you would need 60
amps of power from the panels. I am generalizing here so don't kill me for
my math.
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
On 9/28/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem that I saw with having the panels charge the pack directly is
> for one you would need to separate the batteries and assign one to each
> panel or wire all the panels in series to charge the pack. Last time I
> looked at panels they were 12V so for say a 156 volt pack to charge it you
> would need 180 volts or 15 panels.
The larger, more cost effective panels for grid connect are typically
50-60V MPP. Since this was for charging a streamlined motorbike
project, it will probably be a low voltage system such as 48V, so even
one of these panels would be suitable.
However if you do need to charge a high voltage pack and already have
12V panels, say, you could use the idea of Otmar and modify an
inverter to do the job.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/28/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How large of a panel is a 60V one? What is the current output capability?
> I am thinking that even then you would have only about 2 amps max of output
> current.
http://shop.altenergystore.com/itemdesc~product~Sanyo+Hip-190ba3+190w+Pv+Panel+-In+Stock~ic~SAN190BA3~eq~~Tp~.htm
> To get enough to run the charger (240V 30 amp) you would need 60
> amps of power from the panels. I am generalizing here so don't kill me for
> my math.
In the application mentioned you would be charging the batteries
directly with the panels. Power is measured in Watts, not Amps :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, the panel link below shows the panels are capable of 57 volts at about 3
amps each. To be able to run the whole pack you would need 3 of those
panels which would be 171 volts at about 3 amps if you connected them in
series. If you ran 9 panels (3 parallel strings of 3) that would increase
the output to 9 amps (1539 W). That is not enough to charge the pack very
effectively in my humble opinion. Now if all of the panels were connected
in parallel (9 panels) and charge a 24V pack that is 57 volts at 27 amps or
1539 watts going into the two L16HC batteries. The L16HC batteries could
take a 30 amp draw for say 4 hours and get recharged from the array. If you
get 10 hours of sun a 9 panel array should be able to get the batteries back
up to snuff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Evan Tuer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar Trailer?
On 9/28/05, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How large of a panel is a 60V one? What is the current output capability?
> I am thinking that even then you would have only about 2 amps max of
output
> current.
http://shop.altenergystore.com/itemdesc~product~Sanyo+Hip-190ba3+190w+Pv+Pan
el+-In+Stock~ic~SAN190BA3~eq~~Tp~.htm
> To get enough to run the charger (240V 30 amp) you would need 60
> amps of power from the panels. I am generalizing here so don't kill me
for
> my math.
In the application mentioned you would be charging the batteries
directly with the panels. Power is measured in Watts, not Amps :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just use automotive style clamps on the terminals (and red/black rubber
booties), I got some from www.kta-ev.com for my last few vehicles and havn't
had to fool with periodic tightening of battery terminals. Make sure they
aren't the sleazy led types sold in auto stores though. Just ignore the
studs sticking up or put a washer & nut on them for good measure. I usually
cut them off so the rubber booties go on better and have a 5/8" lower
profile battery.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'TiM M'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'EV-List-Post'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: battery explosion
> Hey,
> Thanks for the input.
> I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
> hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on
that
> led.
>
> I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
> conflicting information
>
> Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
> Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
> ( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm)
>
> Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
>
> What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
>
> Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
> Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
> LPT 95-105 in-lbs
> Stud 120-180 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs>
> VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs
>
> WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post
breakage,
> post meltdown, and fire.
>
> (see web page
> http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx
>
> The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
> insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
> wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
> digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split
in
> various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap
in
> place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
>
> I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
> have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one
piece.
> The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
> but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
> surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
> connection. I had to make all new leads.
>
> Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
>
> Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was
hooked
> up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting
to
> see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
> Thanks
> Joe
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does everyone use the regular automotive type terminal batteries? Electro
Automotive's "Convert it" manual recommends using the L type terminals.
Which is better? I would think that using the L terminals reduces the
number of connections. If you use the auto type connectors with a stud
didn't you just double the connections (1 for the terminal and 1 for the
cable itself)? Maybe I have the wrong terminal in my head.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
Just use automotive style clamps on the terminals (and red/black rubber
booties), I got some from www.kta-ev.com for my last few vehicles and havn't
had to fool with periodic tightening of battery terminals. Make sure they
aren't the sleazy led types sold in auto stores though. Just ignore the
studs sticking up or put a washer & nut on them for good measure. I usually
cut them off so the rubber booties go on better and have a 5/8" lower
profile battery.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'TiM M'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'EV-List-Post'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: battery explosion
> Hey,
> Thanks for the input.
> I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
> hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on
that
> led.
>
> I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
> conflicting information
>
> Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
> Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
> ( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm)
>
> Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
>
> What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
>
> Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
> Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
> LPT 95-105 in-lbs
> Stud 120-180 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs>
> VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs
>
> WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post
breakage,
> post meltdown, and fire.
>
> (see web page
> http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx
>
> The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
> insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
> wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
> digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split
in
> various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap
in
> place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
>
> I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
> have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one
piece.
> The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
> but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
> surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
> connection. I had to make all new leads.
>
> Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
>
> Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was
hooked
> up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting
to
> see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
> Thanks
> Joe
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:20 AM 9/28/2005, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
OK, the panel link below shows the panels are capable of 57 volts at about 3
amps each. To be able to run the whole pack you would need 3 of those
panels which would be 171 volts at about 3 amps if you connected them in
series. If you ran 9 panels (3 parallel strings of 3) that would increase
the output to 9 amps (1539 W). That is not enough to charge the pack very
effectively in my humble opinion.
I would guess it depends on the pack.
My Zivan NG3 charges a 156v Sparrow pack at about 8A. Takes < 6
hours for a full charge.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is KTA still in business? You would think if they were that they would
update their website from May 2004....
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: battery explosion, terminal connections
Just use automotive style clamps on the terminals (and red/black rubber
booties), I got some from www.kta-ev.com for my last few vehicles and havn't
had to fool with periodic tightening of battery terminals. Make sure they
aren't the sleazy led types sold in auto stores though. Just ignore the
studs sticking up or put a washer & nut on them for good measure. I usually
cut them off so the rubber booties go on better and have a 5/8" lower
profile battery.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'TiM M'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'EV-List-Post'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: battery explosion
> Hey,
> Thanks for the input.
> I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
> hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on
that
> led.
>
> I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
> conflicting information
>
> Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
> Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
> ( see web page http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm)
>
> Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
>
> What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
>
> Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
> Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
> LPT 95-105 in-lbs
> Stud 120-180 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs>
> VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
> LT 100-120 in-lbs
>
> WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post
breakage,
> post meltdown, and fire.
>
> (see web page
> http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx
>
> The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
> insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
> wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
> digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split
in
> various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap
in
> place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
>
> I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
> have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one
piece.
> The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
> but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
> surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
> connection. I had to make all new leads.
>
> Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
>
> Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was
hooked
> up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting
to
> see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
> Thanks
> Joe
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If you ran 9 panels (3 parallel strings of 3) that would increase
> the output to 9 amps (1539 W). That is not enough to charge the pack very
> effectively in my humble opinion.
Why not?
> Now if all of the panels were connected
> in parallel (9 panels) and charge a 24V pack that is 57 volts at 27 amps or
> 1539 watts going into the two L16HC batteries.
It's the same amount of energy either way, except that in the second
case you're wasting a lot more of it by storing it in an additional
set of batteries, and through two sets of conversion devices
(inverter, then charger).
And, either way, it's probably more energy than Mark needs to go 13
miles on a "semi-streamlined motorcycle".
Frankly, I would put the money into a vehicle that can go the whole 27
miles easily, every day. Solar panels sitting in a carpark are likely
to get damaged or stolen.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is the Zivan a 115V unit or 240V? That would be awesome to use the panels
to charge the pack directly in that application - the only thing being that
each panel was $900 so it would cost $8100 roughly to be able to charge them
by the sun. Cha Ching....wholy moly....
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Solar Trailer?
At 06:20 AM 9/28/2005, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
>OK, the panel link below shows the panels are capable of 57 volts at about
3
>amps each. To be able to run the whole pack you would need 3 of those
>panels which would be 171 volts at about 3 amps if you connected them in
>series. If you ran 9 panels (3 parallel strings of 3) that would increase
>the output to 9 amps (1539 W). That is not enough to charge the pack very
>effectively in my humble opinion.
I would guess it depends on the pack.
My Zivan NG3 charges a 156v Sparrow pack at about 8A. Takes < 6
hours for a full charge.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Joe and others,
Installing or replacing a battery post is a art form in it self. You can
master it with a lot of practice.
I received all my tools and materials from a local welding and battery shop
supplier. If you do not have one that has battery maintenance tools, than
search the WEB. I remember at one time, I found some battery repair tools at
one time.
First thing, is to find a battery post mold which is a heavy wall steel tube
with a taper machine hole in it that matches the taper of a battery connector.
You can get these battery post mold in standard size and a heavy duty size that
is a bit more diameter and has a skirted base. This is the I use.
You can have some made by a machinist by using a 1.25 inch OD steel tubing with
a 3/4 inch hole in it. Then it is ream out using a taper machinist taper to
match your battery taper.
The next thing you need is a oxygen-acetylene torch with a flame tip, that
makes a long pencil thin flame that is about 3 to 4 inches long.
Then you will need battery lead which comes in 12 inch by 1/4 inch square rods
or 1/8 to 3/16 inch diameter in coils. Only used pure lead with nothing else.
Antimony is ok, which is used in battery lead to harden it.
Practice making battery post on a flat slab of lead that is about 1/2 thick
place on a steel welding table and a exhaust fan above and a flexible pipe drop
for exhausting the fumes near your work.
Place the post mold on the lead surface. Turn on your touch and adjust the
flame tip where the oxygen has a long narrow tip inside the acetylene flame.
Position the end of the tip just touching the lead base surface. Hold the
touch at a slight angle. When the lead starts to pool, insert the lead rod or
wire into the pool just touching the flame tip. Keep melting the lead and make
sure you keep melting the pool on the lead surface as you build up the post.
Make a small circular tip motion as you add more lead. When you get to the top
of the post mold, remove the lead wire and continue making a circular motion
for about a second and your done.
Now, if you have molten lead that leak out at the base of the post mold and you
did this on a plastic top battery, it could burn a hole threw the plastic top.
To prevent this, make sure that the post mold has a tight fit. When you add
lead at the initial time you start to melt the base, quickly add lead, keeping
the top of the lead liquid but the bottom is setting up.
I have made a steel holder that clamp around the post mold or weld a attachment
on the post mold that goes to a magnet base that sets on the steel welding
table. This applies down ward pressure on the mold.
After you have practice several times on your mock up lead surface, than try
this on a junk battery. First its is prefer to have the battery discharge to
at least 70 to 50 percent and has been setting for several days so any gases
have vent out.
First thing, clean the battery and prepare the top for the post mold. Brush
the old post or post surface with a stainless steel hand brush and or small
rotary brush in a air tool. If you have filler caps that have vent holes in
it, remove them and install roll up wet paper towels in each filler neck. Make
sure you do not touch the electrolyte level.
Now lay several layers of paper towels over the entire top surface of the
battery allowing for the post connection to come threw. Put addition wet paper
towels around the base of the old post base providing a dam to prevent any lead
leaking onto the battery top.
Fit the post mold to the old post surface and you may have to shape to get a
good fit. Now remove the post mode and give all the lead surfaces a good
brushing again.
Place the post mold back on and started to practice your post molding. Have a
bucket of water to keep the top surface of the battery wet, water hose, and a
fire prevention system handy.
Testing the battery post you have form. Place a brass battery terminal that
has a brass rod solder to it, on to the post. Clamp it down and provide a
rotating motion and a lifting motion, to see how well the post you mold holds
on to the base. If it snap off, than you got a cold joint where the base did
not melt and the lead rod or wire was melted only.
Sometimes, I will drill small holes into the lead base where the new post will
be on. This etch surface allows it to melt a little deeper and do not have to
applied so much heat to break down the surface of the base.
If you have part of a existing post that remains, then before remolding it.
Reduce the diameter about 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch on the sides. This can be down
by using a modified hole saw. You are going to shape it into a plug drill,
that look like a plug drill that wood workers used.
The standard wood work plug drills do not have a center pilot drill in it,
which is prefer for lead work. So, take a hole saw with the teeth grind off,
and install two large teeth that looks like the teeth on a wood plug drill.
This plains off the lead in a strip. The small hole saw teeth will quickly
plug up with lead.
When I used welded on lead connectors on my 2 volt Cobalt cells, this is what I
used to remove these links. After I did the maintenance on these cells, I then
reinstall the lead link by burning them back on.
I did over 500 of these so far without any problems.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: ohnojoe<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'TiM M'<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ;
'EV-List-Post'<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:04 PM
Subject: RE: battery explosion
Hey,
Thanks for the input.
I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on that
led.
I checked Google with "Trojan Battery" torque and found the following
conflicting information
Proper Torque Values for Connection Hardware
Flooded 65 to 75 in-lbs Gel or AGM 90 to 100 in-lbs
( see web page
http://www.green-trust.org/battfaq.htm<http://www.green-trust.org/battfaqhtm>)
Then there is this FAQ from Trojan
What is the proper torque value for my battery connections?
Flooded Automotive 50-70 in-lbs
Wingnut 95-105 in-lbs
LPT 95-105 in-lbs
Stud 120-180 in-lbs
LT 100-120 in-lbs>
VRLA Button 90 to 100 in-lbs
LT 100-120 in-lbs
WARNING: Do not overtighten terminals. Doing so can result in post breakage,
post meltdown, and fire.
(see web page
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx<http://www.trojan-battery.com/Tech-Support/FAQ/Maintenance.aspx>
The post/stud did melt and then the battery did blow up.(that's what an
insurance adjuster would say. "No no your house flooded first and then the
wind driven rain came with the hurricane and that blew your roof off") I
digress, I'm sure that's the way it went down. The top of the case split in
various places, however, one of the cell's vent cap kept the 3 piece cap in
place, the 3 piece vent cap was askew. (I always want to use that word)
I was/am very unhappy with the terminals on these batters. The batteries
have a short regular battery post and then a stud next to it, all one piece.
The guy at the store said Trojan was not shipping the regular post anymore
but going with this hybrid. The post for the regular camp is there is no
surface area cause it too short hence, I didn't feel I was getting a good
connection. I had to make all new leads.
Roland, you said that you made new post??? Is that correct? Talk to us.
Any comments about the fuse that didn't blow and the funk way it was hooked
up. I got some steal flat stock to replace the aluminum but I was waiting to
see if any one had some thoughts about the fuse.
Thanks
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< > Hey,
> Thanks for the input.
> I did do a spot check of the terminals with a torque wrench and they had
> hardly any lbs on them. However, 95-100 lbs seems like a lot to put on
that
> led. >>
Just a point of clarification. It isnt 95-100 foot pounds, its 95-100 *INCH*
pounds, or just over 8 foot pounds.
HTH
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ...And the ability to include foam energy absorbers with
deformable sections of just the strength you need, is a great benefit to
using composites for more safety while using, paying for less weight
assuming good design of course.. ....For side protection ... you only need
to design to this strength .... you can design any amount of strength you
want for variable crush space, especially good with foam. (from Jerry
Dycus' 9/27 post)
How does one learn how to design well for safety using foam and composites,
especially for a 'roll cage'? I found Robert Riley's foam-and-fiberglass
instructions (http://www.rqriley.com/frp-foam.htm), and had visions of
concept cars all night. But while style is nice, I want to be safe. 2F1R
safety design principles I've already gleaned include (and I'm asking for
comments and additions, of course):
Weight distributed equally on wheels (two-thirds held up by front, one
third by rear)
Design to incorporate fully-loaded masses (my weight is not "trivial")
Maintain wheelbase length of donor car so as not to mess with steering
geometry
Longer wheelbase is better (given a choice of donor cars)
Low polar moment (no huge masses way out front or back)
Low Center of Gravity
Solid passenger cage
Non-bonkable positioning of rollcage elements or wider contact surface
rather than point source tubes
Crushable portions outside solid passenger cage (foam or empty soda
cans - perhaps embedded in foam?)
High door thresholds
Guides/shapes/supports/elements such that passenger cage is flipped or
slid up rather than crunched.
Other design thoughts, though for range rather than for safety,
Very lightweight
Tall slender low rolling-resistance tires, presumably with shrouds or
buried inside body
Aerodynamic design (reduce flat panels, low nose, stretched teardrop
with truncated tail, rounded top, low clearance)
But... I'm not a designer or engineer. If I want to learn 'good design' for
composite collision protection, where do I start? I am, of course, trying to
read all of the archives...
Thanks,
-Tim
PS - I'm living in the hills, so my major risk may not be car-car collisions
so much as running off the road and down a steep hillside/into a tree/off a
cliff. A racing harness is assumed, and my vehicle will be a
one-big-person-in-the-middle rather than two-normal-people-side-by-side, so
I can put batteries low on each side and still have crush room if I build a
body shape that will shroud the front wheels.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark;
Are you planning to use dc to charge the motorcycle directly or do
you have to power an ac battery charger? An do you plan to maintain a
charge battery at the site or simply plug the solar array directly
into the vehicle's pack.
/Bob
On Sep 27, 2005, at 9:39 AM, Mark Hastings wrote:
I was thinking about solar on my house myself but where I really
need power is at work. What if I left a little trailer with solar
panels and some batteries at work and plugged in during the day? No
they won't give me a plug at work I tried that. But 1/2 of the 300
spots are empty and no one wants to park in the sun in Texas anyways.
It would be for my semi streamlined motorcycle conversion to give
me a little bit extra range so I don't push it too far. Currently I
go 13 miles each way at about 40-45 in my truck. It would have sun
all day but I don't think it would have to be that big. Does that
seem like it might help if security will let me do it?
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
IMO, the easiest way to have a solar conversion EV is to mount a large
quantity of PV panels on your home's roof, and buy a grid intertie
inverter.
Assemble a system capable of producing in a day at least as much
energy as
your EV uses in the same period. While your car is sitting in the
parking
lot at work, your PV system is storing electricity in a huge
battery - the
power grid. When you come home, you plug in the car and it consumes
the
energy your PV panels made during the day.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Sep 2005 at 9:43, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
> Is KTA still in business? You would think if they were that they would
> update their website from May 2004....
I don't speak for Ken, but I'm pretty sure he contracted with someone else
to build his current website. I doubt that he has an in-house webmaster.
Many small businesses, especially those with a fairly long history such as
Ken's has, take this approach.
I haven't used the KTA website all that much, but I don't recall anything
that's less than serviceable there. What have I missed? What needs to be
updated?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
well our thoughts are to start the prototype with a
direct drive motorcycle rear end (its going to be a
trike) then after we've assessed the end result we'd
upgrade to front wheel drive, since it would be more
work. unless the groups general opinion is to start it
with front wheel drive? 72V 6.7" series motor hooked
to a rear differential. opinions?
Regards,
Brian
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a thought I am just throwing out there -
>
> How about a dual motor setup using a transfer case
> in the front mounted
> sideways for the front two wheels and then a motor
> hooked directly to the
> differential in the back. You could have them
> controlled in series/parallel
> just like White Zombie but in a different
> configuration. You could have
> both run to get you up to speed but then shut one
> off (the rear or the
> front) when you were up to speed to save energy.
> Just a thought.
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Brooks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: building from scratch
>
>
> First you have to decide if you want it to be FWD,
> front motor - rear wheel
> drive, mid-motor or rear motor. Transverse motor or
> longitudinal ?
> Automatic trans, manual trans or no trans ? Once you
> have the basic layout
> designed in your head then you can put pencil to
> paper and start designing
> the frame and the jig to build the frame on. Then
> you acquire the tranny,
> and other running gear.
>
> The best way to assure that all the suspension works
> as needed is to copy
> the dimensions of the donor car. The easiest way is
> to use the A-arms and
> spindle assemblies from the same vehicle that all
> the rest of the drivetrain
> is taken from. Then you just make sure that all the
> A-arm mounts are in the
> same exact location in reference to one another and
> the ground and you then
> know that the geometry will be OK.
>
> I once built a dirt midget from the ground up and
> there is a lot of thinking
> and cogitating that goes on as the car takes shape.
> You end up with a chair
> on each side of the jig so that you can sit and
> visualize the build process
> and work out the design elements as you proceed. You
> need to write down a
> general order of assembly or you may find yourself
> having to "unbuild"
> things because you missed a step.
>
> What sort of body are you thinking of using ?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:26 PM
> Subject: building from scratch
>
>
> > greeting all,
> > a friend and I are starting a electric car project
> > from the group up. we are planning on designing
> and
> > building the chassis and the whole bit. ambitious
> I
> > know. I was wondering if anyone had advice to
> share
> > and/or possibly sources for parts like the front
> > suspension (new)....
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________
> > Yahoo! for Good
> > Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> > http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The problem that I saw with having the panels charge the pack directly is
> for one you would need to separate the batteries and assign one to each
> panel or wire all the panels in series to charge the pack. Last time I
> looked at panels they were 12V
Probably time to look again. Many panels these days are can be switched
between 12V and 24V (actually somewhere betgween 16-20V and 32-40V), so
you'd only need 1/2 as many.
Also, if you are going to charge a low voltage pack and then run it
through a DC-DC converter, then the same idea still appplies. Skip the
batteries and run the DC-DC directly off the panels. Now you can charge
ANY voltage from ANY voltage and you still don't need to waste 25% of your
energy charging batteries.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Meta,
This is a link to Solar Radiation Data Manual for Flat-Plate and Concentrating
Collectors
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/redbook/atlas/
You can input different collector systems to see which one is the best for you.
I got this from http://windsun.com/Library_Index.htm which has a great library
for all sorts of PV/RE stuff.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Meta Bus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: Use of Photovoltaics for EVs
> Evan Tuer wrote:
>>
>> I have 1kW of PV on a tracking array, grid connected. This only
>> produces enough to run my EV for about 2500 miles per year, but then,
>> that's not much PV and a large heavy van EV.
>>
>
> Evan,
>
> Does tracking pay off for you?
>
> I am doing a cost-benefit analysis of my various mounting options. I
> will have a roof-array on my EV bus. Right now I am leaning towards
> _not_ leaning towards the sun-- planning a simple flat install, five
> inches above the existing roofline.
>
> For a few dollars more (and many extra hours of labor, added complexity)
> I can go for a manually-adjustable panel-mount. (I am also playing with
> the idea of splurging on 24" actuators, just for fun.) But I am
> wondering about the benefit of tracking. Someone suggested to me that
> the money spent on tracking would be better spent on a couple more
> panels (if you have the space).
>
> Did your array always track? Do you have a feel for how much tracking
> has added to your power production? Would you say that tracking is worth
> the added expense and complexity?
>
> Tanks in advance.
> Jim
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
