EV Digest 4972
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 4964
by Calvin King <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AH meter is counting upwards when my EV is parked
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AH meter is counting upwards when my EV is parked
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: AVCON connector advice
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power factor newbie question.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV Confidential Update
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) AC prop reductive charger
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Circuit breaker
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Link-10 voltage setting
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AC prop reductive charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Circuit breaker
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: conversion kits, an"' Stuff.Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Idea for free conversion service
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: Idea for free conversion service
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Idea for free conversion service
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EV digest 4964
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Battery Troubles
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Circuit breaker
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Idea for free conversion service
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Idea for free conversion service
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV digest 4970
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Circuit breaker
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
execration?
Freudian slip. It is my current set of batteries that are cursed.
Their behavior continues to be very erratic. I don't need another
set of batteries that are cursed.
So the the question still stands with a minor charge
Does this mean that I could use 10 - J150's and get better results
than my current set up of 16 T105's, that is better milage per charge
and better acceleration?
Calvin King
81 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 6, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I think you're on to free energy. It's the Tilly effect....... No
just kidding this is normal. Every pack of lead batteries regains
some voltage after use. If it doesn't stop then there is some
trouble. It should stop and reverse in about an hour. LR.........
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Freidberg"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:55 AM
Subject: AH meter is counting upwards when my EV is parked
My 1980 Jet Electra Van 600 ownership is all of about 6 months
now. Only recently did I test the Van's Emergency disconnect and
after resetting it the Brusa BC-29 amphour meter came to life for the
first time since I've owned the Van. This was great to see as the
next thing on my list of stuff to work on was the Brusa.
But when the Van is parked with the main contactor switched off, the
Brusa is counting upwards at a steady rate of 0.28 ah per hour, which
I guess suggests a current drain of 0.28 amps.
Uh, an amp hour meter shouldn't care about voltage rebound.
It sounds like you have a 280 ma parasitic load. What is on when the
main contactor is off? DC to DC? Charger connected? Instrumentation?
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe there's a problem with the meter too. Getting an offset error in
the input stage is a common problem when dealing with ultra-low offset
systems.
Danny
Paul G. wrote:
Uh, an amp hour meter shouldn't care about voltage rebound.
It sounds like you have a 280 ma parasitic load. What is on when the
main contactor is off? DC to DC? Charger connected? Instrumentation?
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ricky,
Yep - I checked the receptacle and saw it is a manually
engineered version - the center pin is filed to a rectangle
and a third flat pin is fitted where normally a round pin
can be found.
I made some photos and uploaded them to:
http://geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/
They also include some shots of the first UB121100 batteries
being installed.
And how to get low resistance battery connections:
a file and Noalox...
I got a call from a local chapter member that some of the
members have not good experience with the company that I
listed a link to (partsonsale) and he specifically pointed
out that the AVCON on that website is the metric (European)
version.
That is exactly why I listed this link: my US Electricar was
modified with a (British) Wavedriver controller, which was
apparently part of an R&D project by PG&E in San Ramon, CA.
(They are listed as customer and signed off the test results)
Apparently this is quite a unique car, as the contracts list
only 2 Wavedriver units to be purchased (that could have been
increased in follow-up purchases, of course) but it never
lists the units to be built-into a car.
However, there is a spec "how to modify US Electricar S-10
instrument cluster for the Wavedriver...."
I also know why 3 phase was necessary: the controller is
switched between motor and grid to supply power from or to
the battery. Vehicle-to-grid is demonstrated like this in 1995
but the specs for the AC connection also mention that the power
capabilities of this controller are limited in software when
connected to the grid, to 208V RMS, 3 phase, 60 A, 20 kVA.
Goodness! the batteries will not allow this as charge current,
because they are limited to 30A for safe charging so I can
never send more than about 12 kW into my pack....
NOTE that this power (20 kVA) can also be *delivered* to the
grid by the Wavedriver....
I have not seen an indication of an auxiliary charger, so I
still think there is no other way to charge the batteries than
to make 3-phase AC and apply it to the Wavedriver via the
modified AVCON receptacle....
I'll see if I can get an European AVCON connector and modify
it to match this receptacle.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ricky Suiter
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: AVCON connector advice
Yeah it sounds like you have something special here. Any of the avcon's I've
ever used are just a 220 vac connector with a GFI built in. I know there are
a lot of pins in there that aren't used however. I recently bought an inlet
to use on my conversion and there were only 3 wires comming out of it...
hot, hot, and ground (pilot emulator built in).
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My S-10 is not your usual US
Electricar, it was converted
with a WaveDriver, a 3-phase bi-directional controller
capable of vehicle-to-grid power delivery.
Since the controller is 3-phase (for the motor) and a
contactor switches the controller between motor and grid,
it has a 3-phase connection to the grid.
THe female recepticle on the car has two rows of connectors
and besides the middle of the row of 3 being rectangular,
it looks exactly as the photo
http://www.partsonsale.com/avconview6.jpg
Though there is one other indication that it actually is
a 3-phase connector: one of the pins in the "back row"
is a very thick (earth? neutral?) pin which is 3x the
diameter of the other (control) pins.
I may have a one-time-special version, or this is an
"engineered" version, using 2 standard connectors to make
one special new variant.
Anyway - anybody having one or two spare AVCON plugs that
I can use to manufacture a plug that will fit the inlet
on my car? Don't need to be in new state.
Or recognise the description of my car's inlet?
(Don Gilles owned this car in the past years but
never drove it as far as I know)
I will try to make a photo of the inlet with the security
cover pressed back, so you can see the pins.
(I will put it on my website and provide a link, so the
list is not burdened with the extra traffic)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AVCON connector advice
Now I'm getting confused. I thought Avcon only provided two phases. AC
that's it. The vehicle then uses it's 220vac charger.
LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Merwin"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: AVCON connector advice
>
> Cor,
>
> As far as I know the Avcon system is for single phase only. The round
> hole is the system ground. The square pins (if installed) would be for
> high-current DC power in Level 3 applications.
>
> Does your truck have an Avcon inlet already?
>
> The picture on the web page you list shows the 'European' style of
> connector, which is different from the US model by (at least) the
> placement
> of the smaller holes. On the US model the smaller holes are almost in a
> line, but on the European model two of the holes are staggered quite a
> bit.
>
> There is a little more information at
> http://www.avconev.com/http://www.avconev.com/
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Cor van de Water writes:
>>
>> I am looking for an AVCON connector for my truck (converted
>> US Electricar) which needs 3-phase grid connection.
>> The following picture is almost correct, only the 3 series
>> http://www.partsonsale.com/avconvw2.html
>> of power contacts all need to be rectangular, not
>> round like the middle one.
>> Anybody have a suggestion?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Systems Architect
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
>> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>>
>
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Yahoo! Personals for free
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Luck Home wrote:
> I did a little "googling" too and my interpretation is that the "reactive
> power" the Kvar is used to power the changing magnetic field in the
> transformer and each cycle it absorbs and then sends back the current used
> to create the magnetic field in the transformer.
Right.
> So I read this as I am getting my transformer magnetising losses paid for
> by the utility company, so it pays me to have a bad power factor (lots of
> inductive loads). Or have I misinterpreted the information.
You are misinterpreting it. Magnetization is not a loss, because it doesn't
consume any energy. That's why the power company doesn't charge you for it.
Unless you have some kind of special service, your power company only charges
you for the WATTS used; not the volts or amps or power factor.
> If I add capacitance to balance out the inductive part of my load (to make
> it look like a pure resistance) will I then be charged for my transformer
> magnetising power as it will now register on the utility companies meter?.
No, because the reactive power drawn by the capacitors is also not consuming
any energy. The power company won't charge you for it, either. 0 - 0 = 0.
But power companies would prefer that you NOT draw reactive power. They prefer
that your power factor be 1.0, because it makes their generators and
transmission lines operate the most efficiently.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/114612278.html This could be a good start
for a nice EV.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From the Prius-G2 list:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Prius-2G/message/46404
EV Confidential, http://www.evconfidential.com/ a documentary about the
demise and rebirth of the electric car, will premiere at the Sundance
Film Festival.
http://festival.sundance.org/2006/
Dates are as follows
Mon, January 23, 8:30pm, Library Center Theatre World Premiere
Tue, January 24, 8:30am, Prospector Square Theatre
Thu, January 26, 12:00pm, Egyptian Theatre, Park City
Sat, January 28, 7:30pm, Broadway Centre Cinemas VI, SLC
L8r
Ryan
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi All, We are going to have to wait an extra long time for Christmas
this year. I just got word that EV Confidential won't be out until the
spring or early summer of 2006. That is a long time to wait but it
will be worth it. On another note, Monster Garage will be doing an EV
episode. I have been contacted by them as well as several other
ampheads. It seems they may want performance. I will keep you all posted.
Roderick Wilde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 7, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/114612278.html This could be a
good start for a nice EV.
Hmm, says it needs pants... ":^)
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wondering if the charger guys out there have found a way to replicate
AC prop's 'reductive charger' for DC charging use? They claim it can
recharge the batteries in the tzero to 60% in 30 min!
Is this just an AC charger/inverter thing, or can we make those chargers for
DC charging as well? I am from Australia, so I think our outlets are capped
at either 10 or 15 Amps though (240V), so thats a problem, unless you
install 3 phase...
Cheers
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:24 PM 12/6/2005, you wrote:
Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
> I think you could do it as long as the breaker's switch is ganged to the
> other one. That is how they do it on household breakers.
Ganged household breakers are in *series*, not in parallel. For example, a
2-pole breaker breaks both hot wires of a 240v circuit. When either breaker
sees its rated current, it trips. The handles of both breakers are tied
together, so when one trips, it switches the other one off as well. This way
you don't have one "hot" wire still connected.
You don't want to wire circuit breakers (or fuses) in parallel because the
current division between them is unpredictable. Two 20amp breakers in
parallel might trip at 40 amps; but it might also trip at 22 amps!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It does depend somewhat on how you wire it up. If two 20 amp breakers are
paralleled and a single wire sized for 40 amps is run from the breakers to
the load you get what you described above. But if two wires each sized for
20 amps are run, one from each breaker to the load, and the wires are long
enough and of equal length you can get much better load shareing.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry halstead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
> On Dec 7, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/114612278.html This could be a
> > good start for a nice EV.
>
> Hmm, says it needs pants... ":^)
And it's a grate project.......Steamer<g>?
Bob
>
> -Jerry
>
> http://www.evconvert.com/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M wrote:
> I finally got my E-meter installed and functioning. Now I need to program
> it. It's not clear on exactly what the voltage setting should be. I have
> a 144V pack with a finish voltage of ~182V. I set the V parameter to 182V
> (2.53V/cell * 3cells * 24batteries). Is this correct, or should I use some
> less number?
This is too high. 2.53v/cell is an equalization voltage; not the fully charged
voltage. The fully-charged voltage is more like 2.4v/cell or 173v for a 144v
pack.
> My pack is made up of US 145 batteries, based on their specs I
> set the AH to 240.
That is the capacity at the 20-hour rate. It will work if you set the Peukert
exponent about right. The E-meter manual has sample values for this. Be
advised that the amphour capacity and Peukert exponent are only vague
approximations; for the E-meter to correctly indicate "fuel" capacity, you
will have to tweak these values based on what the batteries *actually* do.
> I left the default 2% current setting.
That's a good place to start. You didn't mention what your charger is. The
precise value for this depends on what current the charger will be at as the
batteries reach the "full" point, before any equalization or float voltage
steps begin.
> I think this means the voltage must go above 182v and the current must be
> below 4.8A (2% of 240) for 5 minutes. Do I have this down correctly?
Correct. But as I said, the charger affects this. The charger *should* have
fallen to under 4.8 amps when the voltage climbs over 2.4v/cell; otherwise,
you will be charging at too high a rate and doing more gassing and water
usage than necessary.
The E-meter also defaults to a CEF of 90% (see the manual). This is about
right for floodeds, but if you get the above charged parameters set right,
the E-meter will recalculate CEF and correct itself to the actual value
found.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
If someone is looking for "donor cars" that may make good EV's, check out my
website:
www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3<http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/dbd3> I live
in Central NY State. I have two unassembled Bradley GT2 kits originally
purchased in 1981 complete with 1973 VW Beetle pans and remanufactured 1600 cc
ICE. I also have one unassembled Bradley Baron (1929 Mercedes replica) complete
with a "stretched/modified" 1973 VW Beetle pan and remanufactured 1600 cc ICE
and one unassembled FiberFab 1952 MGTD replica complete with
"stretched/modified" 1973 VW Beetle pan and remanufactured 1600 cc ICE; these
were also originally purchased in 1981 and sat in a barn since then. As winter
is upon us, it would be difficult (but not impossible) to extricate them before
spring. The barn will soon be sold so the contents will have to be eliminated.
Prices negotiable. Not sure if the kits are 100% complete.
Don Davidson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry halstead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Bradley GT for 600 on Craigs list. Paloalto
> On Dec 7, 2005, at 3:08 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/114612278.html<http://www.craigslist.org/pen/car/114612278.html>
This could be a
> > good start for a nice EV.
>
> Hmm, says it needs pants... ":^)
And it's a grate project.......Steamer<g>?
Bob
>
> -Jerry
>
> http://www.evconvert.com/<http://www.evconvert.com/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rodney wrote:
> Just wondering if the charger guys out there have found a way to replicate
> AC prop's 'reductive charger' for DC charging use? Is this just an AC
> charger/inverter thing, or can we make those chargers for DC charging as
> well?
Yes, it can be (and has been) done for either AC or DC. It has nothing to do
with whether your EV has an AC or DC drive system. Basically, they are using
the controller as a high-power battery charger. To make this work, you need:
- An EV controller that supports regenerative braking (i.e. it can charge
the batteries).
- A very high power AC receptacle.
- Sufficient control logic to avoid blowing something up!
> They claim it can recharge the batteries in the tzero to 60% in 30 min!
Any EV battery can be charged this fast, if you have the power. The caveat is
that you'd better be watching the battery's state of charge and temperature
very closely, as thing can go very wrong very fast!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> You don't want to wire circuit breakers (or fuses) in parallel because
>> the current division between them is unpredictable. Two 20amp breakers
>> in parallel might trip at 40 amps; but it might also trip at 22 amps!
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> It does depend somewhat on how you wire it up. If two 20 amp breakers are
> paralleled and a single wire sized for 40 amps is run from the breakers to
> the load you get what you described above. But if two wires each sized for
> 20 amps are run, one from each breaker to the load, and the wires are long
> enough and of equal length you can get much better load shareing.
Yes, that can work. Basically, you are using the resistance of each wire to
make the current in each breaker closer to the same value.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: conversion kits, an"' Stuff.
> If people are serious about trying to build a commercial EV, they would do
well
> to search out those who have tried recently and learn from them. I get
the
> impression that many times what kills you is not the technology, at least
not
> directly.
>
> Off the top of my head, I would want to interview:
> James and Anita Worden of Solectria, and other key people there
> The Corbin Sparrow people
> The Tropica folk (Renaissance Cars, Zebra Motors)
> AC Propulsion
>
> --
> Mike Bianchi
> Hi Mike an' All;;
Good Points! Let me begin;
DID meet James Worden, at the transfer of the Sunrise body to my
possession, ,flatbed truck. We went over LOTTS of stuff in referance to
building Sunrise. Jerry Dycus an' I Priused up to MA to meet him. I wanted a
meeting of the minds here. Jerry saw a completed Sunrise, James has one of
his own. James is in our corner here. Has offered to help as much as he can.
Corbin People? Forgetrabout it. Saw them 'WAY back when they were in
Norwalk CT trying to pass off reject Electric Fuel Propulsion stuff, ie H K
Porter traction motors that Bob Aronson was getting rid of. If ya saw the
wimpy comm and brush setup, you would know why.This was Loooong before the
Sparrow Follies. As reported here there was the Right way, the wrong way and
the Corbin way. He was TOLD what he had to do, right here, from the best EV
Minds on the Planet........Sigh!
The Tropica folks. Hey Worked for Bob Beaumont, in Citicar daze. Bob
pretty much lost control of the thing early on. Too many Quick Buck
inverstors, etc. His heart was in the right place, had to love the guy for
trying! He was just too far ahead of his time!And he made a comeback with
the hellova lot better Tropica, He shoulda made it with this one!!
AC Propulsion. WOW! What a place, like I mean, after walking in on
their place in San Dimas CA It blew me away! These guyz have a great AC
system. Was shown around, no, didn't ride in T Zero, I felt it woulda been
damn cheeky to demand a ride. But had they offered??I was amazed by what I
just SAW, the controllers car bodies, lab, So much brain power there. This
is why I DO this drive out West EVery year, to see and talk to people light
years agead of me in CT.Now, IF AC can put together an affordable CAR. They
aren't in the CAR biz, per say, but the Propulsion Biz. You come up with a
Sunrise body and it is a rolling chassis/body, dig a bit deeper for the AC
drive. Their you are! State of the art kick- ass electric car!
In retrospect. If you were building todaze ICE drivetrains, say a
hybrid? It would cost ya a hellova lot more than AC is asking for their
drive setup. Yeah if I had the money I woulda brought one home in the Prius.
Santa?...... Hear me<g>!
My Two Amps worth
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you have a great idea here. Where are you located? If you're
in the Bay Area, I'd enjoy getting together and discussing this in
further detail.
Cheers,
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:38:04 -0600
Subject: Idea for free conversion service
This is something I plan to do in the near future after I convert my
vehicle as an example. Go ahead and do this too if you'd like. The
goal is to get more electric vehicles out there and show that they are
practical.
The idea is for a person to provide the vehicle they want converted
and either the actual parts, or the money to get the parts and the
conversion will be done at cost(no charge for the labor).
Ideally, it would be really neat if auto manufactures who wanted or
would like to have some prototypes made up send over a vehicle sans
motor, exhaust, and fuel system and have that be converted(or with the
motor and all and it can be removed and sent back if needed). Or send
a whole fleet(one of each current model car and truck), and have
rolling demonstrations of all their vehicles to be evaluated and
tested.
They could do this on their own, but do they have anyone who is idle
or available to do it? Do they have resources allocated to do this?
This could be the future of how they get things done. "Just have him
do it since he's not on our payroll!" A volunteer effort to get
things done and make things happen.
What a site that would be at SEMA or somewhere else where every
vehicle they currently make is sitting there as an electric version
and ideally, out perform the gas version!
You know how currently, they sell the same car with several different
engine options? I like the idea of selling cars with varying amounts
of range. Less range will always be cheaper. If someone needs(or
thinks they need..) more range, make a version available that has that
sort of range. Potentially sell vehicles with different size motors
too.. More range? More performance?
Why don't the auto manufacturers make their own lithium batteries?
They should.
Everyone makes cars that get 20 something mpg and offer average
performance at the same price. Why would I want to buy one of those?
How about a performance vehicle that doesn't pollute for the same
price, or even better, then the the slower gas version?
Sports car like performance in any size car. What has performance
these days? The Corvette... The Mustang... I can't think of
anything else..
A Chevy Aveo with a 13" motor and a Zilla 2K and Hawker's or Lithium?
A Focus, a Hyundai? How much do those 4 cylinder motors cost?
Do you think the next hurricane, refinery fire, earthquake, or
terrorist incident will make gasoline be $3 or $4 a gallon? No one on
this list cares because everyone(except me) is driving electric! :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> No one on this list cares because everyone(except me) is driving electric!
>> :)
You're not alone!! In fact I'd be willing to wager a dollar that less than 50%
of the listee's are actually driving electric.
Stay Charged though!!
Hump
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--- Begin Message ---
The goal is to get more electric vehicles out there and show that they
are
practical.
What is your reason to get more ev´s out there? If you are thinking of
environmental aspects, then you should make sure your conversions use
electricity made of renewable sources. How can you be sure of it? Maybe
you should sell "electricity contracts" (don´t know the right english
term) along with the conversion. Can you "force" the owner to use wind,
solar or whatever, what says the law. And what if the vehicle will be
sold to a new owner later...
Osmo
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:38:04 -0600
Subject: Idea for free conversion service
This is something I plan to do in the near future after I convert my
vehicle as an example. Go ahead and do this too if you'd like. The
goal is to get more electric vehicles out there and show that they are
practical.
The idea is for a person to provide the vehicle they want converted
and either the actual parts, or the money to get the parts and the
conversion will be done at cost(no charge for the labor).
Ideally, it would be really neat if auto manufactures who wanted or
would like to have some prototypes made up send over a vehicle sans
motor, exhaust, and fuel system and have that be converted(or with the
motor and all and it can be removed and sent back if needed). Or send
a whole fleet(one of each current model car and truck), and have
rolling demonstrations of all their vehicles to be evaluated and
tested.
They could do this on their own, but do they have anyone who is idle
or available to do it? Do they have resources allocated to do this?
This could be the future of how they get things done. "Just have him
do it since he's not on our payroll!" A volunteer effort to get
things done and make things happen.
What a site that would be at SEMA or somewhere else where every
vehicle they currently make is sitting there as an electric version
and ideally, out perform the gas version!
You know how currently, they sell the same car with several different
engine options? I like the idea of selling cars with varying amounts
of range. Less range will always be cheaper. If someone needs(or
thinks they need..) more range, make a version available that has that
sort of range. Potentially sell vehicles with different size motors
too.. More range? More performance?
Why don't the auto manufacturers make their own lithium batteries?
They should.
Everyone makes cars that get 20 something mpg and offer average
performance at the same price. Why would I want to buy one of those?
How about a performance vehicle that doesn't pollute for the same
price, or even better, then the the slower gas version?
Sports car like performance in any size car. What has performance
these days? The Corvette... The Mustang... I can't think of
anything else..
A Chevy Aveo with a 13" motor and a Zilla 2K and Hawker's or Lithium?
A Focus, a Hyundai? How much do those 4 cylinder motors cost?
Do you think the next hurricane, refinery fire, earthquake, or
terrorist incident will make gasoline be $3 or $4 a gallon? No one on
this list cares because everyone(except me) is driving electric! :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Calvin King [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So the the question still stands with a minor charge
> > Does this mean that I could use 10 - J150's and get better results
> > than my current set up of 16 T105's, that is better milage
> > per charge and better acceleration?
10 J150s = 10 x 84lbs = 840lbs, 120V, 87.5Ah @ 75A, about 10.5kWh
16 T105s = 16 x 62lbs = 992lbs, 96V, 144Ah @ 75A, about 13.8kWh
The pack of J150s results in higher voltage and lighter weight, both of
which should contribute to better acceleration. We don't know how
"stiff" the J150s will be compared to the T105s, but the nominal voltage
is higher and the current draw for a given power level should be lower
than for the T105s, so it is likely that they will provide a higher
battery power than the T105s.
Range per charge is pretty much proportional to the battery weight when
comparing batteries of the same chemistry and configuration (i.e. both
options are flooded PbA). This suggests that the T105s might deliver as
much as 18% more range per charge, however, I suspect the difference
will be less. The J150 pack actually increases the nominal pack voltage
by 25%, which means that the current required to maintain a given speed
should be about 25% lower than with the T105 pack. The difference will
probalby not be quite this great since the voltage of the smaller J150s
will likely sag a bit more than that of the T105s, but the lower current
should still translate into the effective capacities of the two packs
being more nearly equal than the numbers above indicate.
As well, the lighter pack may result in a bit lower rolling losses and a
bit less energy use when accelerating or climbing hills, both of which
will help to increase the range obtainable with the J150 pack.
So, there is no definite answer as we don't yet have any real world
experience with the J150s in on-road EVs. Since they use the same
plates as the T105s, it is expected that they should deliver a similar
cycle life. The hand-waving above suggests that a 120V pack of J150s
should result in improved acceleration without a large decrease in range
per charge.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
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I have a pair of 40amp odessy batteries (PC1200) which have been attached to
my e-bike and sitting in what i believe is a "heated crawlspace". The thing
was supposedly off, and I am unsure in what condition the batteries were
left in (charged, uncharged) today i pulled them off to charge them up and
keep them inside for the winter when my battery charger tells me it can't
charge them because they are full, and that the voltage is 4.9 (on both of
them). A normal battery tester reads "replace" at 12v and is at the top of
the green part for 3v, accordingly it shows that my charger was correct
reading 4.9v. The batteries were sitting in series which is the only reason
I can think of that they could get to 4.9v at the same time.
any ideas?
Marc
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--- Begin Message ---
Two different phases are considered series, how?
Lee Hart wrote:
Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
I think you could do it as long as the breaker's switch is ganged to the
other one. That is how they do it on household breakers.
Ganged household breakers are in *series*, not in parallel. For example, a
2-pole breaker breaks both hot wires of a 240v circuit. When either breaker
sees its rated current, it trips. The handles of both breakers are tied
together, so when one trips, it switches the other one off as well. This way
you don't have one "hot" wire still connected.
You don't want to wire circuit breakers (or fuses) in parallel because the
current division between them is unpredictable. Two 20amp breakers in
parallel might trip at 40 amps; but it might also trip at 22 amps!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Dec 07, 2005 at 07:52:38PM +0200, Osmo Sarin wrote:
> >The goal is to get more electric vehicles out there and show that they
> >are practical.
>
> What is your reason to get more ev´s out there? If you are thinking of
> environmental aspects, then you should make sure your conversions use
> electricity made of renewable sources.
Even if the electricity for these conversions comes from coal fired power
plants, they will still be much much cleaner then an average ICE powered
car in the US.
So, if your goal is environmental aspects, then lets get more EVs on the road!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Dec 7, 2005, at 9:52 AM, Osmo Sarin wrote:
Ryan Stotts wrote:
The goal is to get more electric vehicles out there and show that
they are
practical.
What is your reason to get more ev´s out there?
I am motivated about equally by political, environmental, and personal
(EVs are fun!) reasons.
If you are thinking of environmental aspects,
Which environmental aspects? People are variously concerned with air
pollution, global warming, dams, nuclear waste, etc.
then you should make sure your conversions use electricity made of
renewable sources.
No, not necessarily. An EV conversion takes a vehicle that burns
petroleum out of circulation, and replaces it with one that uses
electricity. Now the question becomes, "How much environmental impact
does an EV conversion have compared to the original ICE-powered
vehicle?
This question gets debated often on this list. The answer is "It
depends on the EV and the ICE and the source of the electricity and
gasoline." The studies that get cited on the list usually say that for
an "average" ICE, an "average" EV, and "average" sources of energy,
that EVs have less environmental impact. "Average" EVs are more
efficient (get more miles from a given amount of energy), and the
"average" electricity source produces less pollution than the
equivalent number of "average" ICEs.
Powering your EV with renewable energy will improve the balance, but
it's probably not a requirement. Unless you're converting a
super-clean-and-efficient Honda Insight and plan to to a terrible job
on the efficiency of the EV, and plan to generate your own power by
burning toxic waste in your back yard... :)
How can you be sure of it? Maybe you should sell "electricity
contracts" (don´t know the right english term) along with the
conversion. Can you "force" the owner to use wind, solar or whatever,
what says the law. And what if the vehicle will be sold to a new owner
later...
Offhand, I can't think of a regulatory framework in the US that could
be adapted to this use. And personally, I believe that's a very good
thing. There are probably places where green power is not available
for purchase, and where it is available it tends to be more expensive.
PV systems are very expensive. If we required EVs to be powered from
more expensive electricity, they'd be even less popular than they are.
I believe that the decision on how to power your EV should be an
individual one. To that end, I think an EV conversion service should
also provide some education on the green power possibilities in the
area. Perhaps some strategic alliances with the local power companies
and solar PV merchants would also help. It would be nice to be able to
negotiate a discount on power or PV systems for EV drivers.
Osmo
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
The Tango is a two-seater (tandem-style). This is the first model of
three that have been planned. The third model is supposed to hit that
price point (around $15K).
Richard
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:23:16 -0700
> From: Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Tango fo sale on eBay (not built yet)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Well the bidding has ended, and now you can see the perceived value of
> this vehicle: $15,750. (Reserve not met.) It's about like the price
> of the old Sparrow. I agree with those bidders - most people don't
> want to pay more than $15k for a single-person commuter, whether it's
> a well-equipped motorcycle or a nice single-person EV. When somebody
> can get the price down around that range (assuming that it's an ideal
> single-person commuter in every other way, without safety problems and
> stupid design problems), they will be successful on a larger scale;
> and not until. $80k is bunk and there just aren't enough George
> Clooneys to buy many at that price.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Two different phases are considered series, how?
In a discussion on the list about a month ago, I believe we established
that residential power in the US is not two phase, but is a single phase
system which uses a transformer with a grounded center-tap.
Anyways, if you draw out the circuit for a 240Volt electric heater (the
most basic 240Volt load I could think of), you'll see that the load is
in fact connected in series across the two 120Volt supply lines. Note
that basic 240Volt devices don't need a ground or neutral connection to
operate.
+120V +120V
| |
___|___ ___|___
| | |
| ______|______ |
| 20A | 20A | Circuit
| ------|------ | Breaker
| | |
|_______|_______|
| |
| |_________
| |
| |
| |
|__/\/\/\/\/\/\__|
Heating Element
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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