EV Digest 4995
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: An Electric Snowmobile? what a way to end the year!
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) PDAs and Alltrax
by "ree3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Post Your EV Video on Google Video? ( Was Re: OT: Is this real)
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: An Electric Snowmobile rolling resistance
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Motor control for direct drive setup
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: PDAs and Alltrax
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: CVT transmission for EV
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: CVT transmission for EV
by "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: CVT transmission for EV
by "Rodney A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: motor control for direct drive
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: an electric snowmobile
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Motor control for direct drive setup
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cushman's available & stability question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Miramar High At Battery Beach Burnout
by Lowell Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: links on evproduction.org wiki
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: From Electricmotorcycles.net : 1911 Electric Motorcycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) An Electric Snowmobile and range
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cushman's available & stability question, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: PDAs and Alltrax
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: An Electric Snowmobile rolling resistance
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Cushman's available & stability question
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If they are using lead acid batteries they should either find a way to keep
them warm or switch to something like Nicads that like the cold. That will
go alot farther in extending their range than any motor magic you can do.
damon
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: An Electric Snowmobile? what a way to end the year!
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:08:04 -0800 (PST)
Hey all
Sorry I haven't been posting like I'd like to, but it's my busy time and
Matt and I are running around like freaks keeping the distribution centers
up and running for the holiday crunch. Not a week's goes by though that I
don't have some sort of EV experience of one sort or another. In as much
as they all have some appeal to me (as a motor guy) this call took the
cake. I got a call from a young man named Matt from Utah State and they've
built themselves an electric snowmobile. Their running it 120 volts with
an ADC8, and they have a range of 3 miles at 35 MPH. Only 2 other colleges
have an all electric and those two are getting only a mile he said.
Talk about rolling resistance, LMAO.
He got my name from someone here at the list who's also on a snowmobile
list (how the hell can anyone maintain 2 list?? OMG) Anyways what do you
do, they have a vehicle with the coasting ability of a brick in leg irons.
Looking for anything that will extend their range I ran the list of mod's
I've done to other motors (most of which have yet to be tested). He went
back to the build team and they've decided to ship it up for a lightening
and a field series / parallel option and any other madass idea I have from
now till then ; )
Now Wayland and I differ a bit as to the effects this will produce. Now
I know it won't be even close to a dual motor series shift, but in this
case I can't see how being able to plumb your motor down to series for
hills and starting out, not helping to save some battery life and extend
some range.
Anyway this kid and crew are pumped, I made no gauranties, but felt it
might net 5 to 10 % more range. From the sound of it I believe 5 % would
make these boys wet their panties, Lmao. Of couse they have no budget, but
this project just screamed at me to become involved. Being I hate the cold
I figuered this would be a good way for me to fight the ICE monsters I face
; P
Anyway this will be the third "single" motor with a series / parallel
field setup. They will represent 3 different motor types running different
voltages in 3 different mediums being a car, a motorcycle and now a
snowmobile. So one way or another 2006 should get some decisive data on
the single motor dual speed motors.
Although this has been my first year here at the EVDL it has seemed (at
least to my green eyes) that this has been an incredible year for both
individuals and as a community as a whole.
As 2005 closes I wish the best of times. Hey maybe next year we get
Santa to go electric?
Anyways just thought I'd share this unusual build request with you all.
Heres to an EVen better year in 06
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
I respectfully disagree, OEM EV's use massively DC !
Forklift/industrials ones AND road ones.
Look at the trends for the fork lift industry - Toyota is good example.
Don't quote the systems just because they have been produces for years
and OEMs are too comfortable with profits to make change.
Most produced/drived road EV all arround the world are French EV cars and
they use DC separately exited motors.
"Most" is quantity wise. Variety wise there are basically very few -
Peugeot 106, Saxo and perhaps Renault Berlingo. Also I can't say
French are exactly setting the trend in the world. They do have big
advantage though because SAFT happen to be there and supports OEM EV.
i hope Evan and other UK friends will forgive me that i don't talk about UK
milk delivery vans, they use DC too :^)
We were discussing freeway capable vehicle in terms of AC covering
entire speed range on a single gear. I don't believe any of DC equipped
vehicles you mentioned can cover up to about 85mph (136km/h) on a
single gear - this is about minimum speed for a US freeways these days
to feel comfortable and safe. Of course for slower veh. applications
DC systems may be more appropriate - no one debating that.
I was referring to EV1, RAV4, S10, Ranger EV, Altra - normal
by US standards cars. Of course we have DC Sparrows and Tangos,
but I'm talking about normal vehicle capable of carrying 2-4 passengers
most conventional people actually wanted to buy and drive here. (No
offense meant to Corbin or Commutacars!)
Victor
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
Steve Arlint wrote:
Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from that
world. I am interested though.
VR,
STEVEN ARLINT
University of Portland
Elecrtical Engineering Student
AC solution is the only one which is trivial to set up - you only need
to pick right components. Wide RPM range (10k or more) provides
zero to freeway speeds, no problem. You still need a single gear
reduction somewhere though.
Note, I'm not saying it is not doable for DC motors. It is just
far more difficult and stressful for them - too much current
on a tall gear, too much RPM on a low one. Narrow(er) band of
everything.
How many OEM EVs (US and European) use AC motors and how many use DC
one? What do you think Why?
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am building a skate pusher with E-tek. So far so good. I noticed a post
that said that the Alltrax controller can be be monitored with a PDA like a
palm pilot and that the person who made the program and has the details on
how to set it up has a "personal page" with details. After 2 hours of
struggling with this archived news group including performing 50 or so auto
limited searches yet to find the link. Could someone point me to it.
Thanks much
Rich
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought it was computer generated also until I saw
another clip by a different camera on
video.google.com.
I think we should post our EV video clips on google.
A title saying something like "500hp Mustang Beaten by
Electric Car" or "12.65s 1/4mile in an EV" should draw
a lot of viewers.
Ed Ang
AIR Lab Corp.
--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry about the OT.
>
> But I figured if anybody knew, somebody here would.
>
> Is the video at the following link real or computer
> generated??
>
> http://www.members.cox.net/transam57/lights.wmv
>
>
> As a note to dial-up users... this is a 3 minute
> long Windows Media Video of a home's CHRISTmas
> lights display. It may take a looong time to come in
> over dial-up. It's 4.83MB
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I was up in North Idaho one time and we were on what looked like an old
railroad grade. We were going up the hill and had stopped for a snack. A guy
comes down the hill silent as a bicycle and stops near us and asks for a
tow. We asked what happened and he lifted the hood and showed us his engine.
The clutch end of the crank had broken off flush with the crank case. We
asked how he got to where we were and he said he pushed it on the flats and
coasted down the hills. We were on a 3 to 5% grade and when we saw him, he
must have been moving about 20 MPH down that hill. We looked at him weird
and told him we had never had a snowmobile that could be pushed by two
people by hand, never in our wildest dreams had we thought that it could be
pushed by ONE person or even coast down a hill. He said his had been worked
on to make it go fast and it rolled pretty well. How well we asked. He
released the brakes and it started rolling down that 5% grade without a
push. We were absolutely amazed. Since we were about 12 miles from the
nearest freeway and 5 miles from the nearest plowed road and trailhead, we
agreed to tow him back to the trailhead. He needed a tow up a 1/4 mile
incline after a creek crossing. He coasted the rest of the way to the
trailhead at about 20 MPH. I have never forgotten that event even though it
was about 20 years ago.
The point of this is; someone out there knows how to reduce the rolling
resistance of a snowmobile. It can be done. I have seen it myself.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:08 PM
Subject: An Electric Snowmobile? what a way to end the year!
> Hey all
>
I got a call from a young man named Matt from Utah State and they've built
themselves an electric snowmobile. Their running it 120 volts with an ADC8,
and they have a range of 3 miles at 35 MPH. Only 2 other colleges have an
all electric and those two are getting only a mile he said.
> Talk about rolling resistance, LMAO.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
it seems about right.
26" = 26/12 or 2.166feet * PI = 6.8 feet per tire revolution.
5280 ft/mile / 6.8feet = 776.47 Rotations/mile * 4.875 = 3785 motor
rotations.
If we cover the mile in 1 minute then 3785rpm = 60mph (63rpm/mph)
3970 rpm = 63mph and 4000 = 63.5mph
The other side of the coin
lets say truck weights 3500 lbs
motor puts out 400lb.ft at x amps
400*4.875 = 1950 lb.ft /1.08ft =1805 lb force 1805/3500 = .516G launch
(corvette is .625)
if you had a high enough voltage pack and could stay at current limit of
x amps
60miles/hr x 5280ft/mile x 1/3600 hr/sec = 88 feet/sec
V = V0 + at //equation of motion for constant acceleration
88 = 0 + .516(32)t ==> t = 88/(32*.5) = 5.5 seconds (0-60 time)
//32ft/sec is "G" in the correct units
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ree3 wrote:
I am building a skate pusher with E-tek. So far so good. I noticed a post
that said that the Alltrax controller can be be monitored with a PDA like a
palm pilot and that the person who made the program and has the details on
how to set it up has a "personal page" with details. After 2 hours of
struggling with this archived news group including performing 50 or so auto
limited searches yet to find the link. Could someone point me to it.
Thanks much
Rich
Peter Ohler wrote the EVDash program for palm pilots, but that is for an
ELink meter ( http://www.ohler.com ) The last post I saw about the
Alltrax was when someone listed the basic logging protocols for anyone
interested to use. I haven't heard anything since...?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll pose this question again.
Has ANYONE used the CVT transmission out of the Mini or any other for that
matter? This looks ideal for my smart car and would make the little woman
more likely to use the car. So if anyone knows anything good or bad about
this trans please reply on list.
Pedroman
Hmmm, the Achilles heel of modern CVTs is that they can't handle much
torque (so I've heard). That is why they have only found their way into
small cars so far (the Civic has had the option for a CVT for many years
now, but only when you get the smallest engine available in the smallest
body style available; that means 70-80HP, but less than 60ft/lbs of
torque). Confirmation anyone?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, the Nissan Murana also has CVT.
Not really sure how it works, but the engine is a 3.5-liter VQ35 V-6 engine
and produces 245 horsepower and 246 pound-feet of torque
Cheers
Rod
From: Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CVT transmission for EV
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:51:07 -0800
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll pose this question again.
Has ANYONE used the CVT transmission out of the Mini or any other for that
matter? This looks ideal for my smart car and would make the little woman
more likely to use the car. So if anyone knows anything good or bad about
this trans please reply on list.
Pedroman
Hmmm, the Achilles heel of modern CVTs is that they can't handle much torque
(so I've heard). That is why they have only found their way into small cars
so far (the Civic has had the option for a CVT for many years now, but only
when you get the smallest engine available in the smallest body style
available; that means 70-80HP, but less than 60ft/lbs of torque).
Confirmation anyone?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the link for THe Nissan CVT as well:
http://www.hispanianews.com/archive/2004/05/12/06.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVeryone,
According to my calculations, my 65 Datsun Truck with 4.875 rear gears and
26" dia tires will do 63 MPH @ 4000 RPM.
Can anyone tell me if my calculations are correct?
I found a calculator online. Of course, transmission ratio = 1.0:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/rear.html
The page says you're right -- 63.466 mph.
My calculator (http://www.evsource.com/motor_calculator.php) strangely
enough gives the same results! (they come from the same roots). I do
like some of the additional features of this other calculator.
Although direct drive seems so elegant, I really like having a couple of
gears to choose from. It also eliminates the need for reversing
contactors. I thought most of the hotter EVs (Gone Postal, White
Zombie, Capope) were direct drive. I know for one Capope - Otmar's
beauty - has a tranny though. On the same subject, I've noticed
occaisonal slippage with my clutch on hard take-offs. I bought a new
clutch when I did the installation, but didn't get a racing clutch. It
appears that's what Otmar has.
All-in-all, I'm happy with the clutch/tranny configuration.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Free Shipping on *all* items in our store for December!
Includes Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim and all:
this call took the cake. I got a call from a young man named Matt from Utah State and they've built themselves an electric snowmobile. Their running it 120 volts with an ADC8, and they have a range of 3 miles at 35 MPH. Only 2 other colleges have an all electric and those two are getting only a mile he said.
Hey, right up my alley! I talked to one guy involved with this
project. He saw my 200sx EV, asked me a few questions (no Jim, I didn't
refer the team to you). I'll have to get a ride this winter on the
snowmobile. I'll trade them for a ride in the 200sx :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Free Shipping on *all* items in our store for December!
Includes Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Robison"
. If you don't have a way to disconnect
power, as others have said it's possible that your brakes will fail to
match the motor's torque and you may run into something/someone before
your fuse blows.
I can remember thinking one time " my this car has good pick up even with me
pushing as hard as I can on the brakes ) .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Motor control for direct drive setup
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:50:12 -0800
it seems about right.
26" = 26/12 or 2.166feet * PI = 6.8 feet per tire revolution.
5280 ft/mile / 6.8feet = 776.47 Rotations/mile * 4.875 = 3785 motor
rotations.
If we cover the mile in 1 minute then 3785rpm = 60mph (63rpm/mph)
3970 rpm = 63mph and 4000 = 63.5mph
The other side of the coin
lets say truck weights 3500 lbs
motor puts out 400lb.ft at x amps
400*4.875 = 1950 lb.ft /1.08ft =1805 lb force 1805/3500 = .516G launch
(corvette is .625)
if you had a high enough voltage pack and could stay at current limit of
x amps
60miles/hr x 5280ft/mile x 1/3600 hr/sec = 88 feet/sec
V = V0 + at //equation of motion for constant acceleration
88 = 0 + .516(32)t ==> t = 88/(32*.5) = 5.5 seconds (0-60 time)
//32ft/sec is "G" in the correct units
No; units of ft/sec are speed, not acceleration.
The correct units of G ( acceleration) are ft/(sec*sec) , or " feet per
second squared".
A good way to check your units( and the equation) is to actually put the
units into the equation along with the numbers. That way, if you have an
incorrect unit, the final answer will come out in the wrong units. That
would alert you to a unit error ( or, an equation error). If you had done
that here, the units error would have been apparent.
Keep in mind that, to maintain 1805 lb of traction force at 60 MPH ( your
assumption of constant acceleration) would require 289 HP ( 88 ft/s * 1805
lb / 550 HP/(ft-lb/s)) at the wheels, or about 0.29 megawatts of power into
the motor. ( Assuming 1000 battery watts/ motor HP)
This would require, for example, a 300 volt pack at 2000 amps ( assuming a
sag to 150 volts at the motor at that current). In practice, you will
generally have less torque ( and traction force) available at high speeds
than at low speeds ( since power is often the limit in effect).
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi from snowy VA,
I'm heading up to NY Long Island this week-end to pick up a 01' Cushman 3-wheel
meter maid to convert to the ZEV 99' (direct drive no tranny) version that
Cushman made some for the EVS-14 Orlando show & get an *honest* 40 MPC. Anyway
Jonathan Guzzardo at (631)-291-7391said to call him if anyone wants another
one. He has a 2000 model for about $2k with a blown engine. These are from
the NYC Wednesday's auto auction where the cops sell about 8 of these every two
weeks while transitioning to Westward Industries "GO-4".
Usually the tranny's are worn but in a 72v ZEV model Cushman direct drove the
rear differential with a 7" GE motor & control which has also used an ADC 7"
motor & Curtis control for 40mph speed. Field weakening gets it to 45mph with
12ea 6V floodees mounted 5" off the road just in front of the rear axle on the
ZEV version (I have a photo of the batts). I met a guy at the Vancouver show
that said it was better to put 4 batteries behind the rear axle for handling &
stability (falling over) but I don't know. He made a small truck and had 4
mounted behind the rear axle & 8 mounted in front of the rear axle. Does
anyone know or had handling experience for vehicle stability, is Cushman right
or is it better to put 4 behind the rear axle?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The date is approaching quickly and my students are working feverishly in
preparation for the Battery beach Burnout. Otmar is building us a Z2K which
will be in early in January.
Our Black Porsche 944 is the one which was pictured in the Discovery
Channel's coverage of The Power of DC. We had borrowed Matt Graham's Z2K,
installed it in 2 days and trailered it to Hagerstown with no test time on the
setup. We discovered our twin 1227's had severe brush arcing problems at 190
motor volts. We dropped the motor volts to 150, but the vehicle was not nealy
as responsive. We were running the setup in Parallel mode only with minimal
instrumentation. We were running neutral brush timing since there is no
factory provision for advance in these motors. The vehicle was still
relatively responsive with a great launch, but top speed was obtained by the
1/8 mile mark thus the 16 second run at only 68 mph. As I am typing my
students are removing our motors so we can modify them to try 12 degrees of
brush timing. We will also be running a series to parallel motor contactor
set. Hopefully we will get a little test time before the event. It is sure
nice t!
o live
down here in south Florida this time of year while you others are freezing.
We'll just see what the car will do.
I have also been in contact with Ralph Goodwin of the EV Challenge. He
E-mailed me the schools involved in his event. We have been in contact with
all. I have received good word from three so far. It looks as if Central
Shanendoah out of Virginia with their 240 Z, Northeast Gilford out of North
Carolina with their Volkswagon (possibly 2) , and NorthHampton East out of
North Carolina will be in attendance for our event. I would also like to
challenge any other school with an EV program to make their way down here to
sunny South Florida, especially some of those old EVTC schools which have cars
in mothballs. I look forward to seeing all. Better get back to class now, I
see a motor coming out.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting question. I have asked myself this question a few times. The
other 'EAA' actually managed to get build from scratch aircraft registered
with the FAA without the usual very extensive testing 'normal' aircraft
builders would have to go to. Though these 'home build' aircraft would
have to show 'experimental' stickers and are subject to certain
limitations, imagine what this would mean for us:
We would be able to build our very own set of wheels, put an
'experimental' sticker on the dashboard (This vehicles is Amateur build
and does not comply with Federal safety regulations for standard
automobiles), get an Inspection (by our own EV safety inspectors), a
waiver and a certificate of title, register and that's it. As a matter of
fact, companies would be able to offer 'car' plans and/or kits and as long
as the home builder himself does more that 51% of the work, it would still
fit into the category.
If this is possible for aircraft, why not for automobiles?
Because we don't have the lobby to do that. As a matter of fact, this
would open unbelievable new markets, new jobs in new companies and a lot
of innovation - not only in the EV environment.
Michaela
Victor wrote:
> Interesting. So why EV oddballs and nuts still did not form a league
> just as ham [nuts] did ARRL or aircraft nuts did EAA? People themselves
> I'm sure are no different. Is it just not enough critical mass yet, or
> unlike other two nuts groups, EVers step on the toes of OEM industry?
>
> Victor
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> The best examples I know of are the ham radio operator's ARRL (American
>> Radio
>> Relay League) and the "other" EAA (the Experimental Aircraft
>> Association).
> ...
>
> Until the EV world gets something similar going, we are
>> just a bunch of powerless individuals who can be easily ignored as
>> oddballs
>> and nuts.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's about as practical a design as I've seen on a motorized bicycle. The
line between bicycles and motorcycles in that day was blured. I'd be
supprized if the bike weighed 75 pounds which means the battery is 125 to
150 in weight. I suspect it had interconnectors on the cells and used
voltage rather than resistance to control speed. It may well have had long
range if it was an Edison style battery. .It is the best design I've seen in
a light situp motorcycle. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "lyle sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: From Electricmotorcycles.net : 1911 Electric Motorcycle
Popular Mechanics 1911 (month?) page 560
Motorcyclists who object to the trouble of
starting the gasoline-driven cycle, or to its
gatling-gun-like exhaust, will welcome a new type of
electric motorcycle which is being introduced, and
which, it is claimed, will run from 75 to 100 miles on
a single battery charge, start instantly on the turn
of the switch, and run absolutely without noise.
The motor, which is located under the seat,
drives the rear wheel by means of a chain and sprocket
wheels, and is connected to the three speed controller
which provides for speeds of 4, 15, and 35 miles an
hour. The 6-cell, 12-volt battery is suspended in the
lower part of the frame, and any of the standard types
may be used. The motorcycle has a 51-in. wheelbase,
and weighs complete about 200 lb.
Caption reads: "Simplicity, Ease of starting and
Noiselessness in Operation are the Features of This
Electric Motorcycle"
On the EM server- beware large files:
http://electricmotorcycles.net/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10039/1911EMcyclelarge.JPG
http://electricmotorcycles.net/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/10039/1911EMcycleArticle.jpg
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--- Begin Message ---
They are using leadies but then they have no budget right now for better. Matt
told me they expect to get a 30 mile range at 35 MPH within 2 years. This is
just a fun way for me to see what can be squeezed from an exiting motor. The
cherry on the top was hering the excitment from young people about doing an
Electric. The wife just told me it's -2 degrees outside here so it's perfect
snow mobile motor working temp out, hehehe. Even at -2 she won't let me go to
Florida this January : (
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If they are using lead acid batteries they should either find a way to keep
them warm or switch to something like Nicads that like the cold. That will
go alot farther in extending their range than any motor magic you can do.
damon
>From: Jim Husted
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: An Electric Snowmobile? what a way to end the year!
>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:08:04 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hey all
>
> Sorry I haven't been posting like I'd like to, but it's my busy time and
>Matt and I are running around like freaks keeping the distribution centers
>up and running for the holiday crunch. Not a week's goes by though that I
>don't have some sort of EV experience of one sort or another. In as much
>as they all have some appeal to me (as a motor guy) this call took the
>cake. I got a call from a young man named Matt from Utah State and they've
>built themselves an electric snowmobile. Their running it 120 volts with
>an ADC8, and they have a range of 3 miles at 35 MPH. Only 2 other colleges
>have an all electric and those two are getting only a mile he said.
> Talk about rolling resistance, LMAO.
> He got my name from someone here at the list who's also on a snowmobile
>list (how the hell can anyone maintain 2 list?? OMG) Anyways what do you
>do, they have a vehicle with the coasting ability of a brick in leg irons.
>Looking for anything that will extend their range I ran the list of mod's
>I've done to other motors (most of which have yet to be tested). He went
>back to the build team and they've decided to ship it up for a lightening
>and a field series / parallel option and any other madass idea I have from
>now till then ; )
> Now Wayland and I differ a bit as to the effects this will produce. Now
>I know it won't be even close to a dual motor series shift, but in this
>case I can't see how being able to plumb your motor down to series for
>hills and starting out, not helping to save some battery life and extend
>some range.
> Anyway this kid and crew are pumped, I made no gauranties, but felt it
>might net 5 to 10 % more range. From the sound of it I believe 5 % would
>make these boys wet their panties, Lmao. Of couse they have no budget, but
>this project just screamed at me to become involved. Being I hate the cold
>I figuered this would be a good way for me to fight the ICE monsters I face
> ; P
> Anyway this will be the third "single" motor with a series / parallel
>field setup. They will represent 3 different motor types running different
>voltages in 3 different mediums being a car, a motorcycle and now a
>snowmobile. So one way or another 2006 should get some decisive data on
>the single motor dual speed motors.
> Although this has been my first year here at the EVDL it has seemed (at
>least to my green eyes) that this has been an incredible year for both
>individuals and as a community as a whole.
> As 2005 closes I wish the best of times. Hey maybe next year we get
>Santa to go electric?
> Anyways just thought I'd share this unusual build request with you all.
> Heres to an EVen better year in 06
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! Shopping
> Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
>
---------------------------------
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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Robison"
>
> . If you don't have a way to disconnect
> > power, as others have said it's possible that your brakes will fail to
> > match the motor's torque and you may run into something/someone before
> > your fuse blows.
> >
> I can remember thinking one time " my this car has good pick up even with
me
> pushing as hard as I can on the brakes ) .
>
And STANDING on the brakes to ease it into a telephone pole to STOP it
and amid tire smoke trying and disconnecting the nearest power cable! Wow!
What A fireball when I did! Don't try this at home!
A positive" Scram" system was in place on the next flight!A Big ass knife
switch at the end of a hunk of closeline to the cab!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark;
Hi from just-as-snowy Corrupticut!!Warmed up to a balmy 25 degrees, now!
Feh! As Mad magazine used to say!Sounds like you're going out East, by the
area code? Long Island? Yeah an IDEAL EV land,grew up over there,
Westhampton Area. Flat, no great distances to travel, most people take the
Wrong Island Snail Road to work, as my Dad ruefully called it , as a
commuter to Speonk, Yes, that is a real place, not making it up<g>!
Sounds like a good deal, for somebody looking for a Cushman? Maybe they
are street legal in CT EVen?I havent seen any though.Arent they pretty
heavy?
If ya overshoot LI, stop over in CT?
Seeya?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Cushman's available & stability question
> Hi from snowy VA,
>
> I'm heading up to NY Long Island this week-end to pick up a 01' Cushman
3-wheel meter maid to convert to the ZEV 99' (direct drive no tranny)
version that Cushman made some for the EVS-14 Orlando show & get an *honest*
40 MPC. Anyway Jonathan Guzzardo at (631)-291-7391said to call him if
anyone wants another one. He has a 2000 model for about $2k with a blown
engine. These are from the NYC Wednesday's auto auction where the cops sell
about 8 of these every two weeks while transitioning to Westward Industries
"GO-4".
>
> Usually the tranny's are worn but in a 72v ZEV model Cushman direct drove
the rear differential with a 7" GE motor & control which has also used an
ADC 7" motor & Curtis control for 40mph speed. Field weakening gets it to
45mph with 12ea 6V floodees mounted 5" off the road just in front of the
rear axle on the ZEV version (I have a photo of the batts). I met a guy at
the Vancouver show that said it was better to put 4 batteries behind the
rear axle for handling & stability (falling over) but I don't know. He made
a small truck and had 4 mounted behind the rear axle & 8 mounted in front of
the rear axle. Does anyone know or had handling experience for vehicle
stability, is Cushman right or is it better to put 4 behind the rear axle?
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Ohler wrote the EVDash program for palm pilots, but that is
for an ELink meter ( http://www.ohler.com ) The last post I saw
about the Alltrax was when someone listed the basic logging
protocols for anyone interested to use. I haven't heard anything
since...?
This has been a topic of conversation of late on the EM list. See
below for links.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The point of this is; someone out there knows how to reduce
> the rolling resistance of a snowmobile. It can be done. I
> have seen it myself.
One word: "bogies". Twenty years ago snowmobiles used bogies to support
the track, but modern machines use sliders. Sliders keep the track
flatter and may keep a larger (longer) footprint in contact with the
snow, but have more friction.
If this team is only getting 35mph out of their sled, I have to wonder
if perhaps the ADC8" isn't more motor than they can use efficiently. If
they consider their operating point and look at the efficiency curves,
it could be that moving down to one of the flavours of 6.7" could net
them a few percent improvement in efficiency. Also, if they are still
running though a typical belt-type clutch/torque convertor they should
be able to pick up several more percent by switching to direct drive
into the chaincase.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think there is 10 000 AC system OEM EV on the road, but i know there
is more than 10 000 French DC system EV on the world roads :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > I respectfully disagree, OEM EV's use massively DC !
> > Forklift/industrials ones AND road ones.
>
> Look at the trends for the fork lift industry - Toyota is good example.
> Don't quote the systems just because they have been produces for years
> and OEMs are too comfortable with profits to make change.
>
> > Most produced/drived road EV all arround the world are French EV cars
and
> > they use DC separately exited motors.
>
> "Most" is quantity wise. Variety wise there are basically very few -
> Peugeot 106, Saxo and perhaps Renault Berlingo. Also I can't say
> French are exactly setting the trend in the world. They do have big
> advantage though because SAFT happen to be there and supports OEM EV.
>
> > i hope Evan and other UK friends will forgive me that i don't talk about
UK
> > milk delivery vans, they use DC too :^)
>
> We were discussing freeway capable vehicle in terms of AC covering
> entire speed range on a single gear. I don't believe any of DC equipped
> vehicles you mentioned can cover up to about 85mph (136km/h) on a
> single gear - this is about minimum speed for a US freeways these days
> to feel comfortable and safe. Of course for slower veh. applications
> DC systems may be more appropriate - no one debating that.
>
> I was referring to EV1, RAV4, S10, Ranger EV, Altra - normal
> by US standards cars. Of course we have DC Sparrows and Tangos,
> but I'm talking about normal vehicle capable of carrying 2-4 passengers
> most conventional people actually wanted to buy and drive here. (No
> offense meant to Corbin or Commutacars!)
>
> Victor
>
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: Motor control for direct drive setup
> >
> >
> >
> >>Steve Arlint wrote:
> >>
> >>>Notice that I haven't mentioned AC motors. I am still awhile from that
> >
> > world. I am interested though.
> >
> >>>VR,
> >>>STEVEN ARLINT
> >>>University of Portland
> >>>Elecrtical Engineering Student
> >>>
> >>
> >>AC solution is the only one which is trivial to set up - you only need
> >>to pick right components. Wide RPM range (10k or more) provides
> >>zero to freeway speeds, no problem. You still need a single gear
> >>reduction somewhere though.
> >>
> >>Note, I'm not saying it is not doable for DC motors. It is just
> >>far more difficult and stressful for them - too much current
> >>on a tall gear, too much RPM on a low one. Narrow(er) band of
> >>everything.
> >>
> >>How many OEM EVs (US and European) use AC motors and how many use DC
> >>one? What do you think Why?
> >>
> >>Victor
> >>
> >>--
> >>'91 ACRX - something different
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi from snowy VA,
I'm heading up to NY Long Island this week-end to pick up a 01' Cushman 3-wheel
meter maid to convert to the ZEV 99' (direct drive no tranny) version that
Cushman made some for the EVS-14 Orlando show & get an *honest* 40 MPC. Anyway
Jonathan Guzzardo at (631)-291-7391said to call him if anyone wants another
one. He has a 2000 model for about $2k with a blown engine. These are from the
NYC Wednesday's auto auction where the cops sell about 8 of these every two
weeks while transitioning to Westward Industries "GO-4".
Usually the tranny's are worn but in a 72v ZEV model Cushman direct drove the
rear differential with a 7" GE motor & control which has also used an ADC 7"
motor & Curtis control for 40mph speed. Field weakening gets it to 45mph with
12ea 6V floodees mounted 5" off the road just in front of the rear axle on the
ZEV version (I have a photo of the batts). I met a guy at the Vancouver show
that said it was better to put 4 batteries behind the rear axle for handling &
stability (falling over) but I don't know. He made a small truck and had 4
mounted behind the rear axle & 8 mounted in front of the rear axle. Does anyone
know or had handling experience for vehicle stability, is Cushman right or is
it better to put 4 behind the rear axle?
So does that mean you'll make your own transaxle? One from a Citi
car or a 8-12 passenger CG type transporter should work for it. Better would be
the 12 hp one from a Citi Van but they are hard to find.
Best way to figure out where to put the batts is to weigh each
wheel with you on board, then draw it out with the batts in both places, and
calculate what the finished wheel weight will be on each. Pick the one that is
slightly biased to the front but no more han 40% of the weight on the front
wheel.
A guess 2 batts behind the axle depending on which motor and how
you place it.
Thanks, Mark
---------------------------------
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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
--- End Message ---
