EV Digest 5014
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: new btteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
by "Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) FW: new btteries
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) unsubscribe
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: new btteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Interesting Hall ammeter project
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address !!
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) FW: new btteries
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: "The Motor Will Splode"
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: TS Undervoltage Detection
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vs: Re: Cooling in cold climate
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: FW: new btteries
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) MIG welding w/Silicon Bronze wire
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
The batteries I have are T-145's which came with the low profile pads that are
about 3/8 high with a 5/15 inch ss bolt in-bedded into the pad. I found that
the bolt head was only 1/8 inch below the surface. They cannot even take 75
inch lbs of torque before the bolt head will spin around. Trojan said, they
should take 95 to 105 in.lbs.
The Trojan WEB site shows a multiple of different post you can get for the
6-volt battery.
I find that the higher the ampere-hour you have and the way the battery grids
are constructed, will have different voltage sags. The best battery I ever had
was seperated 2 volt lead cobalt cells that where 300 AH. These had welded on
links. I could not get these in the car I have now, because the cells height
are over 16 inches high. I had 10 volt less sag than I have with the Trojan 260
AH batteries that will sag to 160 volts from a 180 volt pack.
I used the positive only clamp rings made out of forge brass and gold plated
from the Wirthco Engineering Inc. that I had to open wide open to get over this
pad. I was able to torque the clamp ring to over 10 ft.lbs to secure the bolt
stud which I also used to put downward pressure on the battery clamp rings. The
top stud now can go over 100 inch lbs now. The battery links connect to the
battery clamp, not to the stud.
It is best to order the batteries with standard post. My next set of batteries
will be standard battery taper post which I can used the same battery clamp
rings that have a bolt for fastening my existing heavy duty terminal lugs.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: STEVE CLUNN<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these guys
should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , or
is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
> Hello Calvin,
>
> Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email or
> phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that battery
> is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the distributor and
> order the batteries directly from them.
>
> The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week. The
> batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The gave me a
> phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I requested
> that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one order.
> They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
> requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
> other.
>
> Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still 0.001
> volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
>
> Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
> battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not used
> the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which the head
> of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These will not
> withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
>
> To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp from
> Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short pad. The
> battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable lug to. I now
> can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: new btteries
>
>
> Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
> my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
> indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
> that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
> pass the test.
> Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
> sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
> or ordering them.
> What to do?
> Calvin King
> 81 Jet
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmmm.... Good good
What kind of sensors/tacho/speedo do you need to use? Does it all have to be
digital? DIN? I guess the hardware might be difficult to set up? Since the
board/CPU is easy and the LCD/programming is straightforward, that just
leaves the hardware to connect to it all....
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 10:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: A Dumb Old Laptop & E-Meter / Link10
Think of it this way. A program (I'm on winXP) which displays Ahr left or Kw
left (gas gauge), Speedometer (from simple optic circuit on motor spindle or
drive shaft converting speed/end tire ratios to SPEED), amps usage gauge or
simple gauge showing economy/waste (think 70's vacuum gauge style), charge
recommendations etc.
I like the option of skins to customize my experience since some days I want
old analog style gauge and someday/s I like the led graph style.
Here's a Linux page on creating analog gauges
(http://www.linuxhowtos.org/creating%20an%20analog%20gauge%20image/)
This could be the primary display the operator uses to drive the vehicle
from. In my old Volvo we have the standard display showing speed/odometer,
clock (yea it's useful), turbo boost (performance), Idiot lights, turn
indicators, gear selection etc. Those are the items a normal operator would
use.
If using the link 10 for data collection (or other device for data
acquisition) then the PC brick is just a storage and display unit.
Pedroman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How about the brains in the group writing a program that allows an
> E-Meter to output data to a laptop.
The E-Meter/Link10 already outputs a data stream that a laptop can receive;
the program you want is one that allows a laptop to display this information
in some useful way.
> The laptop (in my mind a pc "brick"
> with an indash LCD running said software displaying the appropriate
> data on screen real time (I'm thinking small screen on my
> dash!) giving a larger display to the operator for charge level, amps
> used, miles left, KW etc. Typical data a general auto driver would
> need to operate their vehicle.
One of the first things that would be needed is concensus on what the
typical data is that a general driver requires. My personal opinion is that
the most important piece of data is simply an accurate fuel guage. Ah or kWh
used, or instantaneous kW are "fluff" that a general driver doesn't know how
to interpret anyway and just add clutter and confusion. Even voltage and
amperage displays are probably excessive for the general driver.
Miles left is impossible using just the info from the E-Meter/Link10; you
need an odometer input to the laptop so that it can track the distance
travelled and so estimate the distance you might be able to travel given the
charge remaining value from the E-Meter/Link10.
> This
> software could act as a data logger providing a running tally on
> charge states etc. Now if the brains could write this as open code
> allowing for other brains to make additions for their own use I think
> it would be great.
The code to read data from the E-Meter/Link10 and display the values of
interest on the screen while logging all/some of the values to disk is
pretty trivial, but what gets more complex is making it work with some
non-standard display device, etc.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are they the same part number?? Weigh them are they lighter? My guess is they
are probably just not broken in yet....
I have the Sams Club Exides in my Elec-trak. they are OK, they are also small
in the ah department. i suspect they are the lower capacity battery, like
T-104.5 as oppossed to a T-105, 125, or 145...
One note, last spring I checked the water levels. The batt's were right at the
top of the plates. so I topped them off with distilled. For about a month
afterward they exibited reduced capacity and power, ....seat of the pants
observation, no test equipment involved..... As the water level dropped their
power level came back up "it seemed"
Now let's talk about my charger, I've never heard anything like it mentioned on
this list, although we talk about it frequently on the Elec-Trak list.
The ET has a Ferro-Resonant charger. Mine has a charger "controller" built by
ET Lister Harry Landis that replaces the stock timer. Basically what it is is a
voltmeter, timer, and solid state relay. The voltmeter measures the pack
voltage, when it drops below a set point, it turns on the SSR, which powers the
charger for 5 minutes and then shuts off, until the pack voltage drops to the
setpoint again, lather, rinse, repeat.... I set the setpoint slightly higher in
the winter...
For the small series flooded pack in the ET it is what I consider a "truly
useful" set it and forget it charger. In the three years I've had my pack, I've
never ran out of charge, and I've added water only once. Of course I don't put
the daily cycles on it, like we would on cars. But.... if anyone is familiar
with Syracuse NY winters.... it's not uncommon for me to go out at 11pm and
completely discharge my pack throwing snow, then do it again 8 hours later.
Last night I did it.... -3F...no lack of power, though I could tell the batts
weren't exactly hovering around 70F.
I also use this tractor and pack to mow, skid logs and power a homemade bandsaw
mill. So I would venture to guess it get's used more than most other
Elec-Traks.
the wife uses it, the kids use it, I use it.... then drive it to it's parking
area and plug it in. And it's ready to go when we need it again. It seems
though that everytime I go to use it something needs to be "fixed", but that's
a different story.
To sum it up.... The Sam's Exides have served me well, as has the Landis
charger controller, and my ET I-5.
http://users.flxtek.net/~hlandis/mowerinst.doc
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: new btteries
Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these guys
should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , . or
is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
> Hello Calvin,
>
> Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email
> or phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that
> battery is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the
> distributor and order the batteries directly from them.
>
> The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week.
> The batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The
> gave me a phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I
> requested that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one
order.
> They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
> requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
> other.
>
> Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still
> 0.001 volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
>
> Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
> battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not
> used the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which
> the head of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These
> will not withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
>
> To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp
> from Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short
> pad. The battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable
> lug to. I now can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: new btteries
>
>
> Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
> my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
> indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
> that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
> pass the test.
> Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
> sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
> or ordering them.
> What to do?
> Calvin King
> 81 Jet
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't find the proper email address to unsubscribe. Please advise. Thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For a series motor, you are right, it is tough to set a frequency
just by setting the voltage, without feedback.
However, on a DC shunt or sepex system, just set the field current
and you are done (analogous to you setting the frequency in the AC
system). For example, full field might give 1000 rpm. 1/2 field
current gives 2000 rpm, 1/3 field current gives 3000 rpm, etc. Yes,
there is a little bit of slip and difference in reality, but it would
be close enough for shifting (again analogous to an AC motor having a
bit of slip).
Note this could be done on a series motor, too. You could drive the
armature with a small voltage (maybe 12 Volts, or maybe you'd need to
lower it more with a resistor), and the field with the controller.
Just set the controller to a particular duty cycle, and the motor
jumps to a particular frequency.
I definitely agree that AC is the neat and easy way to do it. I also
agree that you are getting complicated enough with the DC system you
should start thinking AC if you really needed rotational frequency
control.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ... [good stuffo on setting motor rotational
> frequency snipped] ...
>
> I'm asking if you agree that you can use frequency load
> method which is fundamentally different way unavailable
> for DC machines. If you agree, then DC and AC machines
> *are* different in that respect.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Only water batteries at end of charge. It is normal for the electrolyte to
drop on discharge and rise on charge. If you are adding water when the
batteries are discharge, then you could be diluting the electrolyte. As when
the electrolyte level is low again, the water was boil off and the specific
gravity was back to normal.
If the electrolyte is a little lower than the grids, than add only enough water
to get just above the grids. Than full charge the batteries and than add the
water to in with of 1/4 inch below the filling neck.
The reason I stay 1/4 inch below the filling neck, is to prevent tracking up
the neck. This is not critical if you have locking caps with O-rings, but if
you have press on gang caps, I have found all the cell necks were shunted
together with electrolyte.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Humphrey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: FW: new btteries
Are they the same part number?? Weigh them are they lighter? My guess is they
are probably just not broken in yet....
I have the Sams Club Exides in my Elec-trak. they are OK, they are also small
in the ah department. i suspect they are the lower capacity battery, like
T-104.5 as oppossed to a T-105, 125, or 145...
One note, last spring I checked the water levels. The batt's were right at
the top of the plates. so I topped them off with distilled. For about a month
afterward they exibited reduced capacity and power, ...seat of the pants
observation, no test equipment involved..... As the water level dropped their
power level came back up "it seemed"
Now let's talk about my charger, I've never heard anything like it mentioned
on this list, although we talk about it frequently on the Elec-Trak list.
The ET has a Ferro-Resonant charger. Mine has a charger "controller" built by
ET Lister Harry Landis that replaces the stock timer. Basically what it is is a
voltmeter, timer, and solid state relay. The voltmeter measures the pack
voltage, when it drops below a set point, it turns on the SSR, which powers the
charger for 5 minutes and then shuts off, until the pack voltage drops to the
setpoint again, lather, rinse, repeat.... I set the setpoint slightly higher in
the winter...
For the small series flooded pack in the ET it is what I consider a "truly
useful" set it and forget it charger. In the three years I've had my pack, I've
never ran out of charge, and I've added water only once. Of course I don't put
the daily cycles on it, like we would on cars. But.... if anyone is familiar
with Syracuse NY winters.... it's not uncommon for me to go out at 11pm and
completely discharge my pack throwing snow, then do it again 8 hours later.
Last night I did it.... -3F...no lack of power, though I could tell the batts
weren't exactly hovering around 70F.
I also use this tractor and pack to mow, skid logs and power a homemade
bandsaw mill. So I would venture to guess it get's used more than most other
Elec-Traks.
the wife uses it, the kids use it, I use it.... then drive it to it's parking
area and plug it in. And it's ready to go when we need it again. It seems
though that everytime I go to use it something needs to be "fixed", but that's
a different story.
To sum it up.... The Sam's Exides have served me well, as has the Landis
charger controller, and my ET I-5.
http://users.flxtek.net/~hlandis/mowerinst.doc<http://users.flxtek.net/~hlandis/mowerinst.doc>
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:00 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: new btteries
Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these guys
should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , or
is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
> Hello Calvin,
>
> Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email
> or phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that
> battery is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the
> distributor and order the batteries directly from them.
>
> The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week.
> The batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The
> gave me a phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I
> requested that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one
order.
> They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
> requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
> other.
>
> Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still
> 0.001 volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
>
> Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
> battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not
> used the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which
> the head of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These
> will not withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
>
> To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp
> from Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short
> pad. The battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable
> lug to. I now can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: new btteries
>
>
> Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
> my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
> indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
> that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
> pass the test.
> Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
> sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
> or ordering them.
> What to do?
> Calvin King
> 81 Jet
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30551/article.html
Interesting article to build a hall effect ammeter using a clamp-on
EMI filter ferrite core as the field concentrator. This project could
easily be scaled for higher ranges by reducing the size of the ferrite
and maybe changing the PIC code a little.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, I checked with a Cushman guru at Werres Corp in Frederick Md "last
of the brain trust at Cushman before assimilated by Textron" and he
comfirmed what I surmised, that at EVS-14 Orlando 99' where the batteries
were mounted in a neat pack (I have photos) between the cab & rear axle,
they later modified due to a little falling over thingy. Two are now
mounted behind the rear axle and the other 10 are straddled on either side
of the (sploding) motor 5" off the ground and now handles better than the
ICE. I'll have to check the ratio and see if it's 30-70 (on the Cushman GVW
plate) or 40-60 (like Jerry suggested) with a 2x4 (not upside my head) for
cantileavering with one end on the concrete & the other on a scale with the
tire at midpoint so I'll multiply the scale by X2. My start weight is
1400lbs with 500lbs of engine/tranny removed and 700lbs of lead floodees
added with a 100lb Hyster (Schafe I think) sploding motor.
Have an EV Christmas (I will)
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:23 AM
Subject: scale, 3wh stability and my NEW Email address !!
>
> Hi Jimmy, Mark and All,
> Good advice on the vehicle weighing Jimmy. I
> weigh mine with bathroom scales and then put batt in,
> calculate, but mine is light at 550 lbs before batts.
> Mark, the weights you mentioned max ratings
> per axle were just that, max weigh they will handle, not the
> best for handling. If you load it that way it will be hard
> to control at 35mph, much less 50mph and easily do wheelies
> !!!!!!
> As I said before have sightly more per wheel
> on the front one one your type of 3wheeler or you will have
> handling, turning problem, as you turn the wheel and it will
> skid ahead instead of turning.
> My Yahoo email account is apparently gone so
> now have a new e mail if anyone wants to get ahold of me. I
> also lost all my files as it was on their too.
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: scale
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:56:00 -0800 (PST)
>
> >Mark,
> >There are many types of wheel scales available in the
> >racing equipment market, almost all are electronic.
> >The least expensive are not electronic but utilize
> >bathroom type scales with a lever mechanism.
> >Essentially it is a beam where one end sits on the
> >scale the other end on the ground and a pivoting plate
> >(where the tire rests)closer to the end on the ground.
> > You then read the scale and use a multiplier to to
> >calculate the actual weight at that wheel. You can
> >buy 4 and put one under each wheel, or using one,
> >raise all the other wheels on blocks equal to the
> >height of the plate.
> >Of course the more you use, the easier it is to weigh
> >the vehicle.
> >The one I bought years ago was from "Affordable Racing
> >Scales" ($60.00).
> >You can also look in racing magazines and see what is
> >available. Of course you could always build your own.
> >Good Luck,
> >Jimmy
> >
> >>
> >> > From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[email protected]>
> >> Subject: scale
> >> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:48:04 -0500
> >>
> >> I was curious how to weigh each wheel on my Cushman
> >> to get the 70-30% rear front 3-wheel split. I've
> >> seen cops use some type of wheel scale. Can anyone
> >> recommend a flat say 500lb+ scale to set the correct
> >> ratio?
> >> Thanks, Mark
> >>
> >
>
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Sorry about that last posts formatting.....here's the text
Are they the same part number?? Weigh them are they lighter? My guess is they
are probably just not broken in yet....
I have the Sams Club Exides in my Elec-trak. they are OK, they are also small
in the ah department. i suspect they are the lower capacity battery, like
T-104.5 as oppossed to a T-105, 125, or 145...
One note, last spring I checked the water levels. The batt's were right at the
top of the plates. so I topped them off with distilled. For about a month
afterward they exibited reduced capacity and power, .....seat of the pants
observation, no test equipment involved..... As the water level dropped their
power level came back up "it seemed"
Now let's talk about my charger, I've never heard anything like it mentioned on
this list, although we talk about it frequently on the Elec-Trak list.
The ET has a Ferro-Resonant charger. Mine has a charger "controller" built by
ET Lister Harry Landis that replaces the stock timer. Basically what it is is a
voltmeter, timer, and solid state relay. The voltmeter measures the pack
voltage, when it drops below a set point, it turns on the SSR, which powers the
charger for 5 minutes and then shuts off, until the pack voltage drops to the
setpoint again, lather, rinse, repeat.... I set the setpoint slightly higher in
the winter...
For the small series flooded pack in the ET it is what I consider a "truly
useful" set it and forget it charger. In the three years I've had my pack, I've
never ran out of charge, and I've added water only once. Of course I don't put
the daily cycles on it, like we would on cars. But.... if anyone is familiar
with Syracuse NY winters.... it's not uncommon for me to go out at 11pm and
completely discharge my pack throwing snow, then do it again 8 hours later.
Last night I did it.... -3F...no lack of power, though I could tell the batts
weren't exactly hovering around 70F.
I also use this tractor and pack to mow, skid logs and power a homemade bandsaw
mill. So I would venture to guess it get's used more than most other
Elec-Traks.
the wife uses it, the kids use it, I use it.... then drive it to it's parking
area and plug it in. And it's ready to go when we need it again. It seems
though that everytime I go to use it something needs to be "fixed", but that's
a different story.
To sum it up.... The Sam's Exides have served me well, as has the Landis
charger controller, and my ET I-5.
http://users.flxtek.net/~hlandis/mowerinst.doc
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:00 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: new btteries
Speaking of new batteries , the new excides 6 v golf cart batteries I got
don't quite seem up to par compared to the one's I got 5 years ago . I'm
seeing more of a voltage drop , . My set up with two string of 120v means
I'm only pulling 75 amp out of each one when truck is using 150 , these guys
should be very happy , but after pulling out 200 ah , which would only be
100 per string , I'm seeing a lower voltage than what I would see with one
string of the older bats. , maybe just the cold , not broken it yet , . or
is it just a bug Jerry D put in my ear:-) , How did he know this . I
remember my first set of excides maybe 7 years ago , I though they where
better that the ones I got at Sam's ( don't remember there name ) .
do the trojan have the smaller post , ?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: new btteries
> Hello Calvin,
>
> Just go to any battery WEB site to find there contacts either by Email
> or phone. They will tell you what the closes distributor for that
> battery is. In my case it was in the next state. I call the
> distributor and order the batteries directly from them.
>
> The batteries were ship right from Trojan directly to me in one week.
> The batteries were only two weeks old from date of manufacture. The
> gave me a phone number right to the tech department of Trojan, where I
> requested that I want all new fresh batteries coming off the line in one
order.
> They test the voltage of each battery as it goes down the line, and I
> requested to send me only the ones that are in with 0.001 volt of each
> other.
>
> Today out of 30 batteries, there still 26 batteries that are still
> 0.001 volt and four are about 0.002 volts in 3.5 years.
>
> Also you can request to have different type of batteries post on the
> battery. The best type is to used the standard taper post. Do not
> used the very low profile post with studs. This is what I got which
> the head of the stud is just only 1/8 inch below the surface. These
> will not withstand the recommended 75 inch lbs to be apply to them.
>
> To reinforce these battery pads, I used a gold plated battery clamp
> from Wirthco Engineering Inc. that put side pressure on this short
> pad. The battery clamp has a through bolt where I can bolt the cable
> lug to. I now can torque the battery connections to 10 ft lbs.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Calvin King<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:32 PM
> Subject: Re: new btteries
>
>
> Well it seems that it can't be avoided, I need new batteries. I had
> my pack check with a load tester and the guy at Battery Source
> indicated that 6 of the sixteen did not measure up. I was surprised
> that 1 I was sure was bad was good and 3 I thought were good did not
> pass the test.
> Anyway no one local sells trojans. Has anyone used the Gold-pro 220
> sold by Battery source. I have the choice of Sam's, Battery Source
> or ordering them.
> What to do?
> Calvin King
> 81 Jet
>
>
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 3:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
Make sure the tranny pump is ok or 240 volts and 12,000 rpm will make
it "ALMOSPLODE" or "SORTASPLODE"
It's nice to start the day with a good laugh. Thanks Mark
Shawn
I've run my old 96 volt Prestolites over 7000 rpm with the back wheel
blocked up off the floor and none of them sploded. Three hundred volts
melted t5he brush holders and mounts however.
Bob Boyd
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:30:17 -0800
Subject: Re: "The Motor Will Splode"
Snicker... we've done 144 volts on a 36 volt pump motor.. at 1000+ amps
and
7000 rpm.
Nope they don't Splode.... they melt...
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:51 AM
Subject: "The Motor Will Splode"
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from Warfield where they're reworking the Hyster 36V
(7"
x 15") motor I got off ebay that I was told would be ok at 72V on the
Cushman. They're replacing the brushes, bearings cleaning up the
commutator
and said they have to rewire the armature since it's shorted for $325
total.
Anyway the guy rewinding it said "the motor will splode" at 72V but he
couldn't rewind it for higher voltage operation. I've heard of folk's
running to 2x motor voltage but I've previously only ran 36V at 48V and
a
48V motor at 60V. Has anyone ran for a long time a 36V "pump motor" at
72V
on a 1400lb vehicle without it "sploding"?
>
> Mark
>
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On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:14:56 -0800 (PST), David Dymaxion
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>For a series motor, you are right, it is tough to set a frequency
>just by setting the voltage, without feedback.
>
>However, on a DC shunt or sepex system, just set the field current
>and you are done (analogous to you setting the frequency in the AC
>system). For example, full field might give 1000 rpm. 1/2 field
>current gives 2000 rpm, 1/3 field current gives 3000 rpm, etc. Yes,
>there is a little bit of slip and difference in reality, but it would
>be close enough for shifting (again analogous to an AC motor having a
>bit of slip).
Even a shunt/sepex motor would require a controller mod to slow the
armature quickly enough for this application. A load switched across
the armature would be a simple method, perhaps PWMed to make the
control a bit more graceful. A regen controller would do it even
better. A 4 quadrant controller would do it best and would provide
powered reverse without a reversing contactor.
>
>Note this could be done on a series motor, too. You could drive the
>armature with a small voltage (maybe 12 Volts, or maybe you'd need to
>lower it more with a resistor), and the field with the controller.
>Just set the controller to a particular duty cycle, and the motor
>jumps to a particular frequency.
Probably the simplest method is the plug braking already built into
many controllers. If not built in, easy enough to add as long as the
interior of the controller is accessible.
There have been many control schemes proposed but most were
complicated and/or involved many mechanical components. Here's mine,
one that is almost all electronic, my being predisposed to electronic
solutions.
Simply set up a phased lock loop around the motor with the drive shaft
speed being the reference and the speed of the input shaft being the
variable and the motor being the actuator.
All that is required is two variable reluctor tach pickups and a means
to detect the gear being selected. This is already built into many
modern gearboxes to signal the PCM to select the appropriate engine
calibration for that gear. If not, one or two hall effect sensors
will do the trick.
In the microprocessor controller would be a divider table, one entry
for each gear. This would specify the ratio of drive shaft to input
shaft speeds.
A major advantage of this scheme is that it would almost completely
eliminate the wear on synchros. In fact, synchros could probably be
eliminated, reducing the transmission losses a little.
Direct drive seems to be the holy grail for many EVers but IMHO, that
is misguided. While a single speed can be done, just as it can be
with a gas engine, overall performance including range will be better
if the electric motor is kept operating in its sweet spot, defined as
moderate current and RPM.
My 64 Olds F85 with the special order 425 V8 came with a 2 speed
Hyrdramatic. A very light car with a large engine. When I inherited
it from my mom, the transmission linkage was out of adjustment and so
the tranny was stuck in high gear. She'd never noticed. I didn't
either until I drove a similar car and noticed the difference in
performance.
This is a lot more complicated to talk about than it is to implement.
A BASIC Stamp probably has the necessary processing power. I'm pretty
sure I've seen packaged PLL code for the Stamp. Other than the Stamp,
all automotive parts can be used to avail one's self of the superb
reliability of automotive parts.
I've been thinking about this for some time with regards to a homemade
2 or 3 speed dog-type (motorcycle type) gearbox I'm contemplating
building. This type of box can be shifted on the fly but the
drivetrain impact is severe with the rotating and vehicle masses
involved. Since I would most likely use motorcycle gearbox parts, I
can make the whole thing automatic or semi-automatic (pushbutton
shift) if I like with little effort.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Bill Dennis wrote:
> Thanks, Roger. I was pretty sure that a phototransistor was what I needed.
> I just didn't know if there was one sensitive enough to detect a single LED
> coming on from a few inches away.
In these days of ultrabright LEDs, it is actually pretty easy. You can use a
phototransistor, photodarlington transistor, solar cell, cadmium sulfide
cell, or even a digital camera. (The camera could potentially be used with an
video monitor or software to display the LED's individual status).
Another approach is to use fiber optics to "pipe" the light from each LED to a
central detector. Since this is not high-speed data, even the very cheapest
fiber optics can be used, like the acrylic plastic used for decorative
displays and used for hobby and artistic uses.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:58:33 -0800, "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Shawn
>
>I've run my old 96 volt Prestolites over 7000 rpm with the back wheel
>blocked up off the floor and none of them sploded. Three hundred volts
>melted t5he brush holders and mounts however.
The 'splosion is going to happen in that RPM range when the motor has
been heavily loaded and the commutator is hot and the plastic weak,
assuming a plastic commutator. Spinning up a cold motor with no load
doesn't tell you a lot.
I've spun the little GE motor on my Citi to around 10krpm on the
bench. I know the thing will grenade if spun that high while hot and
loaded. I was mainly doing the no-load test to watch the armature
with a stroboscope to see if anything moved or expanded. It didn't.
Before I try this in real life I'm going to strap both ends of the
commutator and maybe between the brushes with kevlar thread and high
temperature epoxy. Probably the middle of the armature pole faces
too. The ends are already strapped from the factory.
I recently chatted with my motor shop owner buddy who has over 50
years experience in the business. He said that he could only recall a
few instances of a DC motor 'sploding other than the commutator coming
apart and those were instances where the armature windings were
soldered to the comm bars. He likes my strapping ideas, though he
shakes his head at my goals. :-) "If I gotta explain, you wouldn't
understand"...
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hello Evan
I had quite a large efffect on range when I changed from old worn-out
summer tires to brand-new spiked winter tires. I had expected some
change but was surprised to see that I got 20% reduction in range.
Simultaneously the temperature dropped 10 degrees C from +5 to -5 so
I don't know if the main reason was the temperature change or the new
tires.
Seppo
Evan Tuer kirjoitti 20.12.2005 kello 15.46:
Hi Seppo,
My range suffers a little bit with temperatures <0 degrees C. But my
battery is quite old and high milage so maybe that's why.
Regards
Evan
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--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have an opinion on the Deka 8G31 batteries ?
Apparently this is what the new Xebra will be using .....
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OK folks....the welding industry isn't helping much on this one. Apparently
it's a rare thing to use SiB wire when MIG welding steel. (wire size .025"
/ 100% argon)
A few weeks ago on this list I read a post from someone who recommended
using SiB wire to join thicker steel sections to the thin unibody sheet
(battery box work). Sorry I lost your post.
I've been practicing with SiB and have found that the machine settings that
provide a decent fillet are TOTALLY different than what would work well with
steel wire. Low voltage and high wire speed seem to do it, but this lays
the filler in at highway speed only. NOW, I want to turn things down a bit
so I can run a smaller controlled SiB bead...something that is easy to do
when squirting steel wire.
Does anyone out there know if this is possible??
My 228V Honda wannabe awaits your feedback. Thanks
--
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