EV Digest 5020
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Big bit sprocket.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PID controls and other interesting stuff
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) battery surface charge, speedcaps, & erratic charger/battery beh.
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Train Tracks....
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: PID controls and other interesting stuff
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Central repository of info
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Central repository of info
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Central repository of info
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Cruise control, was: Re: PID controls and
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Clutchless shift - clarifying
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: pulleys question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Scooter to Bicycle sprockets
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) NiFe-equipped TEVan on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Fiero flywheel details
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Can AC conversion be done cheaply?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) PID control
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Clutchless shift
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Clutchless shift
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Stunning! Voltage leakage on batt. tops!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) 1991 GeoMetro ShopManual anyone ?
by Michael Jaross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: PID control
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seems there is a four hole adapter that has a freewheel (or not) that
screws right on to the back rim of a bicycle. It is meant for Pocket
bikes. Seems this might be the solution. I can have Azusa make the bore
to fit this adapter and bingo. Bolt on solution. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Zappylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:27 AM
Subject: Big bit sprocket.
Azusa can make a sprocket for me but how to attach it to the rear wheel.
I don't want to reinvent the wheel(har har) but what has been the
solution if you need more than 36 teeth and want bicycle chain? Is there
such a thing as a tap that is the same thread as bicycle spline?
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
Rather than clutter the already overloaded EVDL with the discussion on the
Link 10 Digital Dash, might I suggest we try out the discussion forum on
evforge.net?
I have **lots** of experience designing software systems and would like to
discuss using the MVC w SOA pattern for the java code. I do not think this
is particularly interesting to other EVers.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
Capital idea. I have made a "New Project Ideas" forum for
suggestions/brainstorming, and will be putting up the project hosting
signup form this weekend.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These ideas for implementing full-time cruise control seem to aim at
making an EV perform more like a vehicle based on a PM motor, where the
accelerator determines speed instead of thrust/acceleration/torque etc.
This might sound neato, but it's very different from what people are used
to, and some (myself included) may find it annoying.
I have a small scooter that has control implemented like this, a behavior
which you get basically for free with a PM or shunt motor and regen. Put
the accelerator in a given position, and the scooter wants to travel at
that particular speed. Going uphill, the PM motor naturally draws more
current, and you get more push to keep you from slowing down. Go downhill,
and regen keeps you from speeding up. Now select a slower speed, and you
also get regen; there is no coasting unless you fully disengage the
accelerator.
This has a few effects:
- The acceleration/regen force applied alternately as you move the
accelerator above and below the current speed is jerky and not as
comfortable as coasting when you let up on the accelerator (my opinion).
- Getting maximum regen is difficult, because it's a hairline away from
regen cutting out entirely as the accelerator goes to its minimum
position. This has caused crashes on the scooter a couple times since
regen is its primary form of braking; in a car with real brakes it'd just
cause unnecessary use of friction, wasting power during stops.
This probably all boils down to a matter of personal preference, but I
personally would prefer the system engineered the other way, emphasizing
the association between the accelerator position and torque (not speed).
Make the control system always apply the same amount of force to the
wheels for a given accelerator position (as long as you're in the same
gear), compensating for voltage sag and back EMF. I personally think this
would be a lot more natural.
--chris
On Thu, December 22, 2005 1:57 pm, Neon John said:
>
> It's too bad that none of the common EV controllers have PID
> capability. Among the driving conveniences such feedback control
> would enable:
>
> Inherent cruise control. The accelerator becomes the speed setpoint
> control. The control loop maintains the motor and therefore the car
> speed regardless of load.
>
> Dynamic speed change up AND down. If the speed setpoint (accelerator)
> is set to a slower speed, the system dynamically controls the
> deceleration just like acceleration. Dynamic braking/regen is
> practically inherent.
>
> Very sensitive and stable slow speed control. Want to creep along
> side someone walking or be in a parade? Just set the speed
> (accelerator or hand pot) to 1 or 2 mph and the speed will be
> maintained up hill or down.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Still trying to figure out the deal with my
charger/batteries-- long story short, used to go to
189. Now it will, but only under low current.
Batteries at about 170V were all at
9.4, all within .2V excepting one that was always 0.4V
above the rest (end of the string). I had it load
tested today, and despite cloudy electrolyte, it holds
a charge just fine.
The only other thing I'm noticing, is that thanks to
the dang speed caps, I have electrolyte pooling around
the vent caps. I usually dab it all up, but this time
I used baking soda, in case that is causing enough
current leakage to keep the charger voltage from
rising.
I've replaced about 1/6 of the speedcaps with
regular singles when they started drooling onto my
motor, adapter plate, and controller mount. I didn't
pester US Batt about the rest. Looks like I'll need
to, if this proves to be at fault...
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, what synchronicity! I just read this its possible the source last
night. The author may have copied it from somewhere else, but it's from the
book "A Tribble's Guide to Space" by Alan C. Tribble, published in 2000.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Robison
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Train Tracks....
This one has been forwarded around the internet for years, and there's not
a whole lot of truth to it. It is amusing, but misleading.
As always, check before forwarding (the article below even covers the
recent addition about the space shuttle):
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm
--chris
On Thu, December 22, 2005 11:11 am, Bob Rice said:
>
>
> Hi All;
>
> Thought ya would get a grin with this I was forwarded. Comments
> incerted.
>
>
>
> Hi All. A quick history lesson on Railroads
>
>
>
> The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4
> feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that
> gauge used?
>
> Because that's the way they built them in England, and English
> expatriates built the US Railroads.
>
> SOME roads showed their oriogionality.Built to 6 foot gage, the
> Old Erie comes to mind.
>
> Why did the English build them like that?
>
> Because they COULD, the English, ya know, Jaguers, Lucus
> electricals, etc<g>!
>
> Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who
> built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.
>
> Why did "they" use that gauge then?
>
> Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and
> tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel
> spacing.
>
> Sort of like us car converters, we use the damn glider as it IS!
>
> Okay! Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?
>
> Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels
> would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England,
> because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.
>
> So who built those old rutted roads?
>
> Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and
> England)
>
> for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.
>
> We have roads in CT that way!
>
> And the ruts in the roads?
>
> Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else
> had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the
> chariots were made for Imperial Rome, they were all alike in the
> matter of wheel spacing..
>
> And WE can't come up with a Standard Plug!
>
> The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is
> derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war
> chariot. And bureaucracies live forever.
>
> The DMV, for sure. The BART in SF broke with the patturn, since
> they don't run much horse powered stuff, nowadaze they went to
> a breathtaking FIVE foot. Like the Russians, worried about
> invasion by train from Europe, built THEIR RR's to 5 foot to
> swallow up any invading trains.To go from , say, Moscow to
> Peking they, the Chinese, hafta swap the trucks(Wheel
> Assemblies) out at the border for standard gage ones.China
> followed the pack in the gage thing. So you can buy a new old
> stock Chinese Steam lokie for your tourist or commuter RR.
>
> So the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what
> horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right, because the
> Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to
> accommodate the back ends of two war horses
>
> .Or Farm, peace horses?
>
> Will the battery box fit in the Roman Chariot?
>
> Now the twist to the story
>
>
>
> When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are
> two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel
> tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made
> by Thiokol at their factory at Utah. The engineers who designed
> the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the
> SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch
> site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a
> tunnel in the mountains. The SRBs had to fit through that tunnel.
> The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the
> railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses'
> behinds.
>
>
>
> So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the
> world's most advanced transportation system was determined over
> two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass.
>
> I beg to differ, as most of us can't book passage on the Shuttle,
> but were happy to have you on the Acela Express! Will the Space
> shuttle fly from JFK to West Palm?<g>!
>
>
>
> ..... and you thought being a HORSE'S ASS wasn't important!
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll add to my comments below that I am in no way arguing against the
value of cruise control, at any speed. I use cruise control literally
every time I drive, and cannot imagine driving without it. I'll have to
deal with it when my truck is done, until I can figure out how to retrofit
the capability, perhaps with a PID circuit of my own(?) ...
And at times I've been confused by the inability to use this function
below 30mph. I agree that cruise control should go all the way down to
zero mph, and should hold there solidly regardless of how many amps it
takes to do it. Since cruise control at really low speeds might encourage
people to get out of the car and walk beside the vehicle, a weight sensor
on the seat might be a good idea. :o)
At any rate, part of the point I wanted to make in addition to the
accelerator/torque bit is that I personally would prefer my acceleration,
regen, and cruise control as separate functions -- preferably with regen
integrated into the dead area at the top of the brake pedal travel, if
this can be done safely (would seem to require AWD).
--chris
On Thu, December 22, 2005 2:45 pm, Chris Robison said:
> These ideas for implementing full-time cruise control seem to aim at
> making an EV perform more like a vehicle based on a PM motor, where the
> accelerator determines speed instead of thrust/acceleration/torque etc.
> This might sound neato, but it's very different from what people are used
> to, and some (myself included) may find it annoying.
>
> I have a small scooter that has control implemented like this, a behavior
> which you get basically for free with a PM or shunt motor and regen. Put
> the accelerator in a given position, and the scooter wants to travel at
> that particular speed. Going uphill, the PM motor naturally draws more
> current, and you get more push to keep you from slowing down. Go downhill,
> and regen keeps you from speeding up. Now select a slower speed, and you
> also get regen; there is no coasting unless you fully disengage the
> accelerator.
>
> This has a few effects:
> - The acceleration/regen force applied alternately as you move the
> accelerator above and below the current speed is jerky and not as
> comfortable as coasting when you let up on the accelerator (my opinion).
> - Getting maximum regen is difficult, because it's a hairline away from
> regen cutting out entirely as the accelerator goes to its minimum
> position. This has caused crashes on the scooter a couple times since
> regen is its primary form of braking; in a car with real brakes it'd just
> cause unnecessary use of friction, wasting power during stops.
>
> This probably all boils down to a matter of personal preference, but I
> personally would prefer the system engineered the other way, emphasizing
> the association between the accelerator position and torque (not speed).
> Make the control system always apply the same amount of force to the
> wheels for a given accelerator position (as long as you're in the same
> gear), compensating for voltage sag and back EMF. I personally think this
> would be a lot more natural.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, December 22, 2005 1:57 pm, Neon John said:
>>
>> It's too bad that none of the common EV controllers have PID
>> capability. Among the driving conveniences such feedback control
>> would enable:
>>
>> Inherent cruise control. The accelerator becomes the speed setpoint
>> control. The control loop maintains the motor and therefore the car
>> speed regardless of load.
>>
>> Dynamic speed change up AND down. If the speed setpoint (accelerator)
>> is set to a slower speed, the system dynamically controls the
>> deceleration just like acceleration. Dynamic braking/regen is
>> practically inherent.
>>
>> Very sensitive and stable slow speed control. Want to creep along
>> side someone walking or be in a parade? Just set the speed
>> (accelerator or hand pot) to 1 or 2 mph and the speed will be
>> maintained up hill or down.
>>
>> John
>> ---
>> John De Armond
>> See my website for my current email address
>> http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
>> Emerson
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the assistance on this digital dash thing. Can I make the
suggestion that wherever this discussion take place could we also contribute
to a master data base for everything from battery specs / real life
performance to adapter plate designs / cad drawings etc? Sort of like these
discussion boards:
http://bbs.monolithic.com/
http://www.smartenthusiast.com/forum/
That would be great to be able to download someone's drawings for your next
adapter plate!
Pedroman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have posted a note on the EVForge.org forum, with a first attempt at the
requirements and design constraints for the digital dash. Please take a
look and comment.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
Sent: December 22, 2005 12:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link 10 Digital Dash - take to EVForge?
Don Cameron wrote:
> Rather than clutter the already overloaded EVDL with the discussion on
> the Link 10 Digital Dash, might I suggest we try out the discussion
> forum on evforge.net?
>
> I have **lots** of experience designing software systems and would
> like to discuss using the MVC w SOA pattern for the java code. I do
> not think this is particularly interesting to other EVers.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
Capital idea. I have made a "New Project Ideas" forum for
suggestions/brainstorming, and will be putting up the project hosting signup
form this weekend.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is what a group is trying to do with EVForge.net - it is just getting
started, but one of its goals is to be a central repository for "open
source" designs for EVs, such as adapter plates, software hardware designs
etc.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: December 22, 2005 1:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Central repository of info
Thanks for the assistance on this digital dash thing. Can I make the
suggestion that wherever this discussion take place could we also contribute
to a master data base for everything from battery specs / real life
performance to adapter plate designs / cad drawings etc? Sort of like these
discussion boards:
http://bbs.monolithic.com/
http://www.smartenthusiast.com/forum/
That would be great to be able to download someone's drawings for your next
adapter plate!
Pedroman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the assistance on this digital dash thing. Can I make the
suggestion that wherever this discussion take place could we also contribute
to a master data base for everything from battery specs / real life
performance to adapter plate designs / cad drawings etc? Sort of like these
discussion boards:
http://bbs.monolithic.com/
http://www.smartenthusiast.com/forum/
That would be great to be able to download someone's drawings for your next
adapter plate!
Pedroman
I'm hoping that is what EVForge.net will partly become. A repository as
well as a community hosting/discussion service. You can submit a
link/write an article directly from the site. If anyone wants to make
available a file to download, just email it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and we
will make sure it gets posted in the "Downloads" section.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:13 PM 22/12/05 -0600, chris wrote:
And at times I've been confused by the inability to use this function
below 30mph. I agree that cruise control should go all the way down to
Aftermarket add-on cruise control can only cope with a certain speed rate
range from the pickup for pulses. We took an aftermarket cruise control and
put it onto the autonomous quad bike project that we did for a customer -
with 24 magnets instead of 3, it would happily hold speed at a slow walking
speed. We ended up taking it off, since it had to have the speed set each
power cycle before it could be made to 'resume'. So we compromised with a
counter that just accelerates until faster than low setting, and then backs
off the throttle if it reaches high setting, which kept the speed within
10% of set point which was acceptable for the job. We considered a pulse
rate to analogue signal conversion and an off-the-shelf industrial PID
controller, but that (whilst it would have worked) was un-necessary for the
application.
zero mph, and should hold there solidly regardless of how many amps
Zero? Just buy an industrial servo system that uses motor speed feedback
and controls to speed setpoint. Dial up a speed and it will drive to it as
fast as possible and hold it within a couple of % (might be a bit savage
with the throttle, though).
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon (and Lee Hart), thanks for the explanation. It never occurred to
me you wouldn't do regen when it was a natural part of design.
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Simple enough. Not all Sepex controllers do regen. In fact, in
> the
> industrial world, regen is rare until the motor and load get fairly
> large. The ability to feed power back to the source is even rarer
> still. Normally regen, actually dynamic braking, involves
> channeling
> the generated power to load resistors.
>
> I try to keep my explanations general so I can't assume regen
> capability as an inherent feature of a Sepex controller.
>
> John
>
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:46:54 -0800 (PST), David Dymaxion
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I'm not clear on why a shunt/sepex system couldn't slow down the
> >armature fast enough, or why you'd need a "regen controller" when
> a
> >sepex or shunt already does regen? A sepex can provide 100 ft*lbs
> or
> >more of traction torque, but can also provide that much regen
> torque
> >-- it should be able to slow the armature very quickly.
> >
> >--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:14:56 -0800 (PST), David Dymaxion
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >However, on a DC shunt or sepex system, just set the field
> current
> >> >and you are done (analogous to you setting the frequency in the
> AC
> >> >system). For example, full field might give 1000 rpm. 1/2 field
> >> >current gives 2000 rpm, 1/3 field current gives 3000 rpm, etc.
> >>
> >> Even a shunt/sepex motor would require a controller mod to slow
> the
> >> armature quickly enough for this application. A load switched
> >> across
> >> the armature would be a simple method, perhaps PWMed to make the
> >> control a bit more graceful. A regen controller would do it
> even
> >> better.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
>
>
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The motor pulley is 2.5"
> The thrower pulley is 5" (is that 2:1? or am I backwards? :-)
2:1. The motor rotates twice per revolution of the thrower.
> I got the following: 1.5", 2", and 6".
>
> My thought was to mount (in thin air :-) the 1.5" and the 6"
> and magically bind them together, so the original 2.5 drives
> a 6", which is concentric with 1.5" which drives the 5".
> (is that 6:1.5? = 4:1?) Is that too low?
6:2.5 = 2.4:1
5:1.5 = 3.33:1
2.4 * 3.33 = 8, so the overall speed reduction with this setup is 8:1
(the motor will rotate 8 times per revolution of the thrower).
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anybody
> done that or have a better idea on how to put a big sprocket
> on a bicycle?
I have seen larger sprockets simply bolted to the side of a stock
sprocket using bolts that fit through holes in the larger sprocket to
sit in the valley between a pair of teeth in the smaller sprocket.
I have also seen the 'spoke drive' approach used (in an Electrathon
vehicle), and have witnessed rapid spoke failure; I would not recommend
this approach with motors capable of any significant torque/hp (i.e. 1hp
or greater) despite its apparent success in some bicycle assist systems.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Todd Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I see that Curtis has a
> Model 1238 AC converter which can handle 80 volts up to 550
> amps, but I can't find a traction motor that could use it.
Don't worry about this since Curtis won't sell you that controller
anyway.
If you want to explore this option, contact the folks at Hi Performance
Golf Cars <http://hiperformancegolfcars.com/index.html> and ask what
they might have to offer in the 72-80V range.
By all accounts they have put together quite a decently performing
package around the Curtis AC controller, and I am pretty sure they can
supply something in the 72-80V range even though their web page only
deals with their golf car-oriented offerings.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone we know?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4599116475
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rudman wrote:
> Anybody interested in seeing them???
Pics are always good.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of which, I can happily report that the proto is working and
final LED version of EVision is being made as we speak. I know, better
to see one time than describe 1000 times. After loading demo software
showing all possible displayable info, I'll make few quick time movie
files and post them on MME web site among other details.
Blue/white 7 seg. displays and 26 dots analog bar graph are just
amazing :-). Here is a sneak preview photo of display PCB
(CPU PCB is detached):
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/display.jpg
Enclosure:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/side.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/face.jpg
Enclosure is 78mm diameter.
Graphic LCD will follow shortly, but I should say this day light
visible LED display will give you 90% of all you need to know.
(and much more than emeter can give you).
Simulated display (drawn picture):
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/all_inits.gif
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/va.gif
It will be offered only in USA and in UK initially.
Yes, it is expected to cost more than emeter. This display
unit is small part of the system - it's interfaced (CAN bus)
to a main BMS processing unit, a user also has per cell
(or per 12V battery) monitoring units as well.
Stay tuned,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
damon henry wrote:
...and now we have came full circle and understand how GM spent a
billion bux developing the EV-1. Remember when this thread was about
something simple and cheap...
Now you see why Victor and others are working on nice graphical battery
monitoring systems that are a step up from an E-meter. We also see why
they will end up costing more than an e-meter.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shari,
This is interesting to me - are you saying the "final differential" of
automatic tranny is higher ratio or you somehow can "lock" it on
one gear, or still use automatic tranny as tranny (e.g. allow shifting)?
Victor
Electro Automotive wrote:
You list an automatic transmission. I always
thought we use stick for conversions, that automatics
are too inefficient. Am I missing something?
Good luck with the project, and welcome to the list.
peace,
But with the high rpm limit of AC systems, you can take an auto trans
car that would otherwise not convertible with DC and eliminate the trans
entirely with direct drive, achieving a no-shift conversion.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen a shift away from PID towards what is called fuzzy logic.
Althought the term covers whatever marketing wants it too. The point is
that the original PID algorithm (proportion integral/dirivitive) was
kinda simple and handled fixed parameters well. Autolearn tuning was
added but the base algorithm was really designed for steadier responses
than a car. It is only a tad more processor power needed and indeed
some things that are called PID are better than others called fuzzy
logic. Even my thermostat claims fuzzy logic control. :-)
You are probably more familiar with the specifics than I john, but as I
recall the standard PID sets the rate of change relative to the value
and the requested change. In our venacular the percent increase in duty
cycle is based on the desire to change speed say 40 mph, the only
problem areas I have seen our the default and generally rigid "reset
time", the time to re-eveluate the parameters is usually 300 seconds and
this is fixed accross the range of operation. Which I think would make
the car have jerky cruise control at slow speed if following a recent
cruise at high speed. With Dynamically changing this reset interval,
resseting parameters on each measurement, comes enough bragging rights
to say you have fuzzy logic. Although most non marketing types would
insist that fuzzy logic has a hueristic aspect, ie Jeffs driving, he
like a sporty feel, make changes quicker than jane who wants smooth
slower changes.
I think the critical point is, just like on ICE, fixing the dutycycle
doesn't set rpm. It is reguired that we close the loop on rpm, be it
wheel or motor or driveline.
My moms ole cutluss was a diesal and they replaced the engine under a
recal to the bigger diesel, The transmission went soon after, One of the
funny things that beast would do is try to resume speed control based on
the transmission shaft speed. With an open rear end sometimes one wheel
would spin. the resume was for the smaller less torquey motor and with
only a two speed tranny, hitting resume could be entertaining.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not use a prox switch(inductive PU) on the gear teeth in the tranny
and fire the shift when the teeth are in the right orientation. The
request to shift would be seperate from the actuator.
Since the ratios are different, you are guarenteeed a point of
enguagement will pass by very soon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Speaking of which, I can happily report that the proto is
> working and final LED version of EVision is being made as we
> speak. I know, better to see one time than describe 1000
> times. After loading demo software showing all possible
> displayable info, I'll make few quick time movie files and
> post them on MME web site among other details.
>
> Blue/white 7 seg. displays and 26 dots analog bar graph are
> just amazing :-). Here is a sneak preview photo of display
> PCB (CPU PCB is detached):
Very slick looking unit Victor; congratulations!
I fear the system will be beyond my budget; do you have an estimated
cost yet, or is it still too early to speculate accurately?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very nice Victor,
one of the links doesn't work.. I think you mean
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/all_uinits.gif
you left off the u for the all units.
I like the adjustable feature of it. It looks like it can go anywhere. Can the
face swivel inside the housing so you can actually mount it sideways or
upside-down (make it a heads up display)?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:00 PM
Subject: Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
> Speaking of which, I can happily report that the proto is working and
> final LED version of EVision is being made as we speak. I know, better
> to see one time than describe 1000 times. After loading demo software
> showing all possible displayable info, I'll make few quick time movie
> files and post them on MME web site among other details.
>
> Blue/white 7 seg. displays and 26 dots analog bar graph are just
> amazing :-). Here is a sneak preview photo of display PCB
> (CPU PCB is detached):
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/display.jpg
>
> Enclosure:
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/side.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/face.jpg
>
> Enclosure is 78mm diameter.
>
> Graphic LCD will follow shortly, but I should say this day light
> visible LED display will give you 90% of all you need to know.
> (and much more than emeter can give you).
>
> Simulated display (drawn picture):
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/all_inits.gif
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/va.gif
>
> It will be offered only in USA and in UK initially.
> Yes, it is expected to cost more than emeter. This display
> unit is small part of the system - it's interfaced (CAN bus)
> to a main BMS processing unit, a user also has per cell
> (or per 12V battery) monitoring units as well.
>
> Stay tuned,
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> damon henry wrote:
>> ...and now we have came full circle and understand how GM spent a
>> billion bux developing the EV-1. Remember when this thread was about
>> something simple and cheap...
>>
>> Now you see why Victor and others are working on nice graphical battery
>> monitoring systems that are a step up from an E-meter. We also see why
>> they will end up costing more than an e-meter.
>>
>> damon
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My mistake on my previous post..
it should be http://www.metricmind.com/misc/all_units.gif
sorry all....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:00 PM
Subject: Digital LED display (was: Re: Digital LCD Dash!)
> Speaking of which, I can happily report that the proto is working and
> final LED version of EVision is being made as we speak. I know, better
> to see one time than describe 1000 times. After loading demo software
> showing all possible displayable info, I'll make few quick time movie
> files and post them on MME web site among other details.
>
> Blue/white 7 seg. displays and 26 dots analog bar graph are just
> amazing :-). Here is a sneak preview photo of display PCB
> (CPU PCB is detached):
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/display.jpg
>
> Enclosure:
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/side.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/face.jpg
>
> Enclosure is 78mm diameter.
>
> Graphic LCD will follow shortly, but I should say this day light
> visible LED display will give you 90% of all you need to know.
> (and much more than emeter can give you).
>
> Simulated display (drawn picture):
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/all_inits.gif
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/va.gif
>
> It will be offered only in USA and in UK initially.
> Yes, it is expected to cost more than emeter. This display
> unit is small part of the system - it's interfaced (CAN bus)
> to a main BMS processing unit, a user also has per cell
> (or per 12V battery) monitoring units as well.
>
> Stay tuned,
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> damon henry wrote:
>> ...and now we have came full circle and understand how GM spent a
>> billion bux developing the EV-1. Remember when this thread was about
>> something simple and cheap...
>>
>> Now you see why Victor and others are working on nice graphical battery
>> monitoring systems that are a step up from an E-meter. We also see why
>> they will end up costing more than an e-meter.
>>
>> damon
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The teeth are always in mesh, it's the synchros that bind
particular gear to the shaft as you shift. So no point to use
sensor on teeth for *that* purpose (if I understand your suggestion).
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Why not use a prox switch(inductive PU) on the gear teeth in the tranny
and fire the shift when the teeth are in the right orientation. The
request to shift would be seperate from the actuator.
Since the ratios are different, you are guarenteeed a point of
enguagement will pass by very soon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm seeing .37 to 3 volts when I touch the tips of the
voltmeter on two adjacent battery tops! And that's
_after_ cleaning the majority of the electrolyte off!
I wonder if that explains the erratic readings &
charger behavior I'm getting.
Okay-- now that I've asked Interstate for single vent
caps for the _rest_ of my batteries...!
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello List,
I have the 2 volume original GM Service Manual for the 1991 GeoMetro.
One main volume and second one for "Electrical Diagnosis." Someone on
the list gave them to me, but I seem to have forgotten who it was.
I would be glad to send this out to anyone who thinks they can make use
of it. Please contact me off-list to make arrangements.
Merry and Happy, Michael
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> as I recall the standard PID sets the rate of
> change relative to the value and the requested change.
Right. There are 3 components that make up the command that comes out
of a PID controller:
P = the component which is proportional to the error (difference)
between the desired and actual values (in this case desired and actual
speed)
I = the component which is dependant upon the integral of the error over
time. This integral component is used to reduce the steady state error;
without an integral term, once the error drops to 0, the control output
drops to zero and so the result in the case of a cruise control is that
the speed would oscillate about the desired target instead of holding
steady.
D = the component which is dependant upon the derivative or rate of
change of the error over time. This component is typically used to
speed the response of the system to a sudden change in the desired value
(speed in our case).
> In
> our venacular the percent increase in duty cycle is based on
> the desire to change speed say 40 mph, the only problem areas
> I have seen our the default and generally rigid "reset time",
> the time to re-eveluate the parameters is usually 300 seconds
> and this is fixed accross the range of operation.
While a 300 second update rate might be appropriate for some
applications, it is likely at least a couple orders of magnitude too
large for a cruise control application. While the update rate is
typically fixed at some value, there is certainly nothing about a
PI/PD/PID controller that requires it to be this slow. For instance, a
product I am working on at the moment uses multiple PI loops, one of
which updates at 30kHz to shape the AC line current for near unity PF.
The "slow" loops update at something like 500Hz (2ms intervals).
> Which I
> think would make the car have jerky cruise control at slow
> speed if following a recent cruise at high speed.
A 300 second (5min!) update rate would result in very poor behaviour at
any speed. Are you perhaps referring to the integrator time constant
rather than the control loop update rate?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
