EV Digest 5083
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Neg supply for E-meter
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Gliders
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor Question, shroud protection
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Mitsubishi Pickup Weights
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motor Question, comm bar burnishing stone
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: I want to build a PWM DC motor controller
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Gliders
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor Question
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor Question, comm bar burnishing stone
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EVForge.net Update
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor Question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Listed by anyone on the EVDL?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Gliders
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Comm colour, was: Re: Motor Question, comm bar burnishing
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Comm colour, was: Re: Motor Question, comm bar burnishing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) CA DMV: Clean Air Vehicle Notification
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: CA DMV: Clean Air Vehicle Notification
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Help With US Electricar Prism
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Another way to be sure the HV+ is disconnected before the other leads is
to cut the HV+ pin of the header shorter than the rest of them, that way
when you're unplugging it, this pin disconnects first. (I think I heard
of this method from Otmar or Bob Schneeveis; not sure.) Of course you
have to be sure you keep the connector square to the header as you
unplug it. The way Ot had his set up, the E-Meter was mounted in a PVC
pipe sleeve and the connector was mounted to the bottom end of that
sleeve. The sleeve was mounted in the dash, so you could simply unplug
the E-meter from the dash.
YMMV!
cheers,
Andrew
damon henry wrote:
I took the suggestion by fellow listers to avoid these problems: I
wired a
connector to the harness and installed a connector header to the back
of the
emeter. Once it's right, it stays right unless a connection fails.
Then
EVERY TIME you mess with the pack wiring, remove the connector plug.
When
done, reinstall the plug.
Q: Has anyone who's using such a connector ever had a failed emeter?
I am setting mine up this way as well, but I believe there is one
caveat. According to a chat I had with John Wayland on Sunday, who
always has several e-meters in use, a common way to blow an e-meter is
to disconnect other wires (I'm not sure which specific one is the
culprit, but the HV neg seems likely) before the High Voltage positive
lead. Since the HV+ is fused he recommended always removing this fuse
first when disconnected and inserting this fuse last when
reconnecting. When you pull a connector header you have no control
over which pin disconnects first, and electricity is very fast. Also
this may only apply to higher voltages so might not be a problem on a
36v system like Myles's boat.
So in addition to using the connector header I am planning on using
Johns HV+ fuse guidelines as well.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Do take the effort of limiting to around 24V and your E-meter will be
> IMHO the E-meter should include an _isolated_ power supply,
> it is causing too much headache and causes for faulty wiring (read:
deadly mistakes)
> while in the end you need to create a supply anyway.
So --- Does using an isolated supply ensure the E-meter won't get fried if
the B+ and B- are connected to the meter but the DC-DC fails or otherwise
has an open lead?
My impression has been (and supported by Chris' comment on the subject) that
the meter can get fried from having its supply disconnected before the +B
pack line.
An isolated supply doesn't protect you from that.
-MT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> People will do what they want. I for one have had the
> experience and do not want to repeat it.
I would be interested to hear *precisely* what you did. As I said,
there is no reason electrically for the meter to care if you power it by
tapping the pack.
Remember that this meter is *not* intended for use by EVers, the target
market is the RE crowd. This is why the meter does not include an
isolated supply: the vast majority of users use it on packs of 12-36V
and either power it directly from the pack (packs up to 24V) or from a
tap.
It is only we oddball EVers with our high voltage packs and desire to
keep the traction pack isolated from the house power that need and use
isolating DC/DCs and prescalers.
> I am more than happy to have the $10 part to protect the unit
> even if you or others think it is a waste of my money.
I certainly agree fully and would encourage people to use a proper DC/DC
to power their meter.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know the alure of buying a new car. It's over rated. Find a nice clean
light vehicle. Make sure a lot of them were produced. Make sure you like
driving it. Make sure you can easily convert it. I found that my Ford
Aspire was a good start. It was luck. I'd be just as likely to convert a
Festive, VW bug or Sprint now. When you take out the motor of an ICE you
take away most of the problems. You're not likely to wear out most of the
components of an ICE like seats, turn signals etc. YOu will wear out
eventually bearings and such. Chumpchange compared to a motor. You might
wear out a tranny. You will eventully wear out the CV joints on a front
drive car. You can get a very nice sprint or VW bug for a thousand dollars
with a blown motor. Can't do that with a new car. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Gliders
HI all,
Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a piece about that new
Chinese car that will sell for under $10,000. Maybe that is a good place
to start for a glider.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was curious about the ZEV Cushman model where they show the rider sitting
above the motor & coupling (U-joint to rear differential). Is it a good
idea to put say a 1/4" aluminum plate under the seat (between my butt and
the motor&coupling) or round guide ring around the drive shaft incase it
comes unglued at 5000rpm? I had one on a dyno at GE-EV come unglued and
missed my head by a foot, made a sizeable dent in the wall but it made some
noise before it came off though, some warning.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Question
> Hey Stefan
>
> Okay I looked up the MKH motor in my Prestolite manual. Although it is
listed as a traction motor it should only be a 2 terminal motor designed to
run CCWDE, that's CCW looking at the drive (non-brush) end. If this is
correct as to what you have then I don't know how you are getting CWDE as
the motor is not set-up to rotate that direction. Furthermore it shouldn't
change anything electrically if Positive was connected to the "A" terminal
or to the "F" terminal. That raises some flags for me as there maybe a
short of some kind that is causing the motor to draw higher current. This
is unless you've disconnect the field jumper connection going to the brush
ring. Prestolite didn't advance these types brush rings as far as I've ever
seen. I thought I'd get you what the manual said this should run so you can
compare it to what you are running. I caution however that the manual has
been found to be wrong from time to time. These specks look correct but this
is not a commo!
> n motor
> to me. Anyway here are the spec's
> 36 volt 19 amps 3250rpm's 0 Ft. Lbs.
> 36 volt 175 amps 1880 to 2100 rpm's 17.5 Ft. Lbs.
>
> Keep me posted as now you have perked my curiosity
>
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos - Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
> Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I appologize for some misinformation I previously sent to the list. My 1988
Mitsubishi MightyMax Pickup I claimed weighed 2350 lbs dry weight is actually
3050 lbs. Apparently my truck was previously registered not as a 4WD and as
such had a stock weight for the 2WD truck listed on the registration. I took
my rig to the scales yesterday to measure the weight distribution and was
surprised with the readings. What I know now are:
1988 Mitsubishi MightyMax / Dodge D50 2WD with 2.0L 4cyl = 2350 lbs (from
specs found on internet)
1988 Mitsubishi MightyMax / Dodge D50 4WD with 2.6L 4cyl = 3050 lbs 1825 lb
Front / 1225 lb Rear (from certified scales)
Now that I have measured weights I can proceed removing the ICE to make room
for the WarP 9" and 16 Deka 9A31 Intimidators. (and Z1K & PFC20 too :-)
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was told that I should get a comm bar burnishing stone on my rebuilt
Warfield motor and apply the comm bar stone until the commutator is
chocolate brown (instead of shiny copper like it is now). Is this a good
idea or just leave it alone?
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Question
> Jim Husted wrote:
> > Hey Stephan
> >
> > Do to the brush tension you shouldn't really be able to spin these
motor by hand very good. They shouldn't spin like an AC motor would. They
should just stop as soon as you quit turning it. If yours is spinning real
easy then you might have dry bearings (no grease left) and or worn brushes
that are not getting good spring tension. If your motor stops as soon as
you quit turning it (by hand) that is a good sign usually. If you have a
vid camera and want to take a short clip I'd be happy to look at it to see
what "rustling" noise you may be talking about.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks!
>
> I likely would have a hard time spinning it by hand if the large pulley
> (6") wasn't on it. It stops within a second or less when I let go of the
> pulley. The top of the brushes are about even with the top of the brush
> holders, with plenty of spring travel left, and every spring has tension
> on it and is centered on each brush (the springs look shinier and newer
> then the rest of the motor). I sprayed some electrical contact cleaner
> on the commuter and checked the black film that came off the brushes as
> I turned it slowly (then wiped it off afterwards). It was nice and even
> on each brush, so they appear in good condition and making full contact
> with the commuter bars.
>
> No video camera (been spending all my extra money on electronic parts).
> I will ask around and see if I can get a loaner.
>
> Can I simply repack the bearings? Is there any special procedure or
> grease I should use? I have noticed that it takes noticeably more
> current to run in one direction then the other (only two terminals).
> Which would be the direction that the motor was set to spin from the
> factory (less or more)?
>
> --
>
> Stefan T. Peters
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 120V Zivan K2, which had been functioning perfectly for years,
died last night shortly after I plugged it in. When I plugged it
in, it did its usual start-up sequence with the lights and all
seemed well as I went back upstairs to my apt. As I was washing
my dishes, I noticed that the 1/4-watt neon pilot light I have in
the kitchen for the 20A circuit that goes down to the carport was
out. Odd, I thought, that is very unusual. The microwave oven
on that circuit is also out (no display), so it's not just a
burnt out lightbulb. Hmmm... Yep, the circuit breaker in the
closet is tripped. Well, gotta have power to figure out what's
going on, so I decided to reset the breaker. Immediately heard a
sound that seemed like a lot of current was flowing, with a bit
of light dimming and brightening on other circuits, but the
circuit breaker did not re-trip. With the Zivan's normal
soft-start, this would be a bit unexpected, although I would
occasionally get a bit of pop and arc when I would plug the thing
in, I presume charging up some caps (pop would depend I think on
how true and quickly the plug went into the AC socket). Well,
with somewhat heavy heart, I tromped downstairs back to the
carport, opened the hatch and peered in. No lights, no nothing,
no smokey smell from the Zivan, just the usual whir of the fan
venting the rear pack enclosure. I verified pack voltage at the
charger, and nothing else seemed amiss that would cause the
charger to malfunction. I disconnected the charger from the
pack, unplugged the car, and decided to implement Plan B charging
in the morning.
Always have a backup Plan B for charging. If I did not, I would
have a semi-discharged pack sitting for days or weeks while the
charger is turned around (if repairable), shortening the life of
the pack, and making the car unusable. Plan B for me these years
is a 20A variac running through a full-wave bridge rectifier. I
have used this rig for equalizing the car's traction pack many,
many times, but I have never really done a full bulk charge. I
thought one of these days I would try a practise run or two, but
never got around to it. Now I'm doing it for real, as I write
this email. I am the servo (cranking up the knob as the pack
voltage rises, although don't have to do that much during most of
the bulk charge as the voltage doesn't move much), and it is also
non-isolated charging (yep, the car is wet from last night's
rain, and the floor of the carport is also damp, but I've been
there and done that with non-isolated chargers and haven't gotten
hurt, just don't like it anymore).
I have a call into Greg McCrea, of Electric Conversions, up in
Sacramento, the person from whom I bought the Zivan. A live
person on the other end of the line, a woman, answered the phone.
Greg is supposed to call me back. In the meantime, I pour over
in my mind the possibilities.(and it was a somewhat sleepless
night last night, thinking about the pack not getting it's
nightly fill-up, and what's going on with the charger). I'm
hoping it's nothing more than a blown rectifier that tripped the
circuit breaker the first time around, and maybe blew a fuse in
the charger the second time around. My previous K&W BC-20
charger had somewhat similar symptoms when it blew its rectifier
back in the late '90s, and fortunately that event took nothing
else in the charger with it. K&W turned it around quickly and
inexpensively, and I used that charger for another year or two
before I sold it to another EVDL'er.
So any opinions amongst you learned exorcists out there as to
what happened with the Zivan?
Thanks,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it's a chunk of the battery cost.
But... do you really need to surf into your battery pack and check the temp
and voltage a couple times a second??
When you need to do this.. then The Mk3 Reg IS worth every cent.
If you have a lazy old flooded, or a AGM or two.. that cost a couple of
twenties... Sure $75 is pricey.
When you have a stack of matched AMGs burried inside a $100,000 12 second
Street EV that takes 4 hours and crew of Techs to unload, then Digi Regs
become dirt cheap if they stay under $200.
Clearly Mk3 Reg BMS are not for the cheapest solution.... But we are trying
to find out how to make a pack live for 5 years, and not strand the owner
with a single dead hole. Ever.
The point here is to solve the questions of what is the state of charge of
EVERY battery, not just the general health of the pack. We all know we can
have bad ones.. and not know which one it is without putting a DVM on EVERY
post in the entire EV. Digi Regs...of any make or design DO that. And Mk3
can also Reg a battery and get programmed on the fly for adaptive
equalization.
A feature few have.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Mk3 Regs
> > You could be right... I think the price feels really high
> > because you and I know it can be done for so much less.
>
> Perhaps. More likely the price feels high because it is a substantial
> fraction of the cost of a battery.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
I think the term that best applies here is 'Kluge'.
From: Stefan Peters
Hey now. I'm definitely not trying to throw together parts to create a
makeshift controller. It's quite a bit more systematic and nit-picky
than that.
Stefan, you should look up the word "Kluge". It is not a derrogative
term, and I think you will agree that it describes what you are doing.
Consider me properly corrected on that point. :D
I do think that your controller strategy is going in the wrong direction
(extra complications; will just lead to higher cost and lower reliability).
But, I can't tell if there is any "light at the end of the tunnel" that may
justify it in the end. For all I know, maybe it *is* possible to use dozens
of cheap little controllers instead of one big one, and come out ahead
in the long run. So, best of luck with it! I'll provide whatever advice I can.
I love simple solutions myself (look at the car I'm restoring), and in
implementation it is intended to be a bit simpler then in testing. First
I have to get it to all work (BatPack-style setup, PWM-style setup,
contactor style setup), then I can refine/reduce down to something a bit
more elegant that still supports the flexibility/scalability that think
it needs for it's intended use (see below). But it is a network, and
networks are what they are - many different things trying to talk to
each other all at the same time, in a noisy room, and some of them not
very nice. The upsides of networking traditionally discreet systems for
the real-time processing of critical data (e.i. the various computer
networks that run half our lives - they used to be a bunch of small
parallel proprietary communications channels) is accompanied with a
equal amount of downsides that must be dealt with.
My thought is that once you take a box (monolithic controller), and
another box (BMS master) and a bunch more little boxes (BMS remote
sensors), and even more boxes (instrumentation driver circuitry, status
displays, safety devices), and all the wiring back and forth - you have
complexity no matter how you do it. This is just a partial parts list I
was facing when spec-ing my own EV conversion/build. So I thought about
it for awhile.
Now many on this list seem to be moving in the direction of simpler
conversions for newer and newer cars. Which *is* a great way to get
electric cars used everyday by "the masses" and I hope it succeeds. But
remember when I said that whole shmeal about "electric hotrods"? Even a
1986 converted escort could never be considered one of those (way too
new). Rodders are people that like to tinker and customize to a very
high degree, and appreciate options and uniqueness (and torque) to a
high degree. Look at how well the four RF-based buttons in the middle of
the steering wheel transmitting to a little box under the hood to
control your lights and other basic stuff setup has done. This setup is
*highly* customizable, you can make one button momentary, and one button
pulse for a configurable time, and one button toggle between two or
three states. And it is easily replaced by an infinitely simpler and
more reliable set of switches on the dash with some relays underneath it
(aka traditional car wiring).
What I figured is that since I'm going to be having wires running
everywhere from a bunch of electronics boxes anyways, I might as well
learn some new stuff, experiment with some "out-in-left-field" stuff,
and *maybe* end up with a systematic, centrally controller network
instead of a bunch of parallel and unmanaged car-wide circuits of HV,
LV, and data to keep track of.
Now this isn't a case for someone looking to convert a grocer-getter or
commuter. They have a working dash with instrumentation and little wish
to change things around. They don't need a BMS and will not be modifying
it or tinkering with it every other weekend. They will likely run a much
much simpler EV setup then I will. Which makes sense - I have an empty
frame and body to fill, not just an engine to replace, after all. And
the car is a weekend hobby (which I *will* just happen to drive anywhere
I can get away with), not a family transportation vehicle.
As for how it all will end up working - not many mobile networked power
delivery and monitoring system around to gauge it against (except inside
a laptop, which is what I have borrowed heavily from so far). I have
hopes, and I have opinions. They aren't necessarily the same. But I know
that you usually don't end up with what you started with when veering
off the beaten path. If I can get the idea to work well, it will likely
surprise myself what the final solution looks like.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Jan 2006 at 9:00, Rush wrote:
> Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a piece about that new
> Chinese car that will sell for under $10,000.
I forget where I read it, but someone was quoted as labeling this as "a new
Yugo." There ^were^ a few Yugo conversions.
Still, any conversion done on these cars would have to be in the car's spirit,
so to speak. Some people think that one reason Solectria Forces never sold
well is that in spite of the $30k+ price tag, they were still Geo Metros. The
same would apply to a $20k+ Chinese car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Stefan
Okay I looked up the MKH motor in my Prestolite manual. Although it is listed as a traction motor it should only be a 2 terminal motor designed to run CCWDE, that's CCW looking at the drive (non-brush) end. If this is correct as to what you have then I don't know how you are getting CWDE as the motor is not set-up to rotate that direction.
I can flip the symmetrical rear differential in the car... the trans
will run happily in either direction. It's a double shaft motor with big
pulleys on both ends (which I'm removing soon) and identical keyed
shafts, so couldn't I just flip the motor around?
Furthermore it shouldn't change anything electrically if Positive was connected to the "A" terminal or to the "F" terminal. That raises some flags for me as there maybe a short of some kind that is causing the motor to draw higher current.
It's only the initial surge current that is different (the old salvaged
unmarked ammeter jumps higher at first). The steady draw and RPM are the
same.
This is unless you've disconnect the field jumper connection going to the brush ring.
I'll get a picture with that end cap removed this weekend so you can
take a look at the brush wiring. Thanks.
Anyway here are the spec's
36 volt 19 amps 3250rpm's 0 Ft. Lbs.
36 volt 175 amps 1880 to 2100 rpm's 17.5 Ft. Lbs.
Nice, higher then I initially thought - wonder what 96V will do? The
motor weighs in at 117 Lbs (with pulleys), built like tank, hoping it
will take plenty of abuse :) Seems like an excellent deal for the $60 I
paid for it so far. The scrapper told me that there are quite a few of
these out there in old large floor washers.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
There are only 2 reasons you have to stone the comm. / brushes. One is if
there are nick's or grooving being seen on the comm. A bad nick or grooving
dictate a turn and undercut. The other reason is to seat the brushes to the
diameter of the comm. You need to seat until the contact area on the brush
face is complete. Now while you are stoning the comm. you are making it
shinny, The dark patina develops as the brush and comm create it. I've been
told that it can take up to 1/4 of the brush to create a nice patina. I
believe that would apply to just the OEM users, as most of the EV comm's I've
seen tend not to develop that solid deep dark patina I'm used to seeing with
lift motors. Once you run your motor you will see whether you'll need to
address this issue. If your brushes are seated and the motor doesn't chatter
on start-up then you should be fine. If she chatters at you like a rabid
squirrel well you'll need some type of seater to get that smooth whirl sound !
we all
like to hear.
Best of luck
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I was told that I should get a comm bar burnishing stone on my rebuilt
Warfield motor and apply the comm bar stone until the commutator is
chocolate brown (instead of shiny copper like it is now). Is this a good
idea or just leave it alone?
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Question
> Jim Husted wrote:
> > Hey Stephan
> >
> > Do to the brush tension you shouldn't really be able to spin these
motor by hand very good. They shouldn't spin like an AC motor would. They
should just stop as soon as you quit turning it. If yours is spinning real
easy then you might have dry bearings (no grease left) and or worn brushes
that are not getting good spring tension. If your motor stops as soon as
you quit turning it (by hand) that is a good sign usually. If you have a
vid camera and want to take a short clip I'd be happy to look at it to see
what "rustling" noise you may be talking about.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks!
>
> I likely would have a hard time spinning it by hand if the large pulley
> (6") wasn't on it. It stops within a second or less when I let go of the
> pulley. The top of the brushes are about even with the top of the brush
> holders, with plenty of spring travel left, and every spring has tension
> on it and is centered on each brush (the springs look shinier and newer
> then the rest of the motor). I sprayed some electrical contact cleaner
> on the commuter and checked the black film that came off the brushes as
> I turned it slowly (then wiped it off afterwards). It was nice and even
> on each brush, so they appear in good condition and making full contact
> with the commuter bars.
>
> No video camera (been spending all my extra money on electronic parts).
> I will ask around and see if I can get a loaner.
>
> Can I simply repack the bearings? Is there any special procedure or
> grease I should use? I have noticed that it takes noticeably more
> current to run in one direction then the other (only two terminals).
> Which would be the direction that the motor was set to spin from the
> factory (less or more)?
>
> --
>
> Stefan T. Peters
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, the search capabilities for the EVDL database at EVForge.net are up
and running. Basic (but nice and fast) at first, will be adding more
bells and whistles - time permitting.
I have procured a complete EVDL backlog of individual posts that I will
be importing into the database, also falling under the "time permitting"
schedule. The current database goes back to late december, if I remember
correctly.
You don't have to be a member to use it:
http://www.evforge.net/viewpage.php?page_id=1
But it would be appreciated ;)
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Stefan
The only problem I see with running the drive off the comm end is additional
heat developing on the comm end which is the alredy hot end. I just got
fifteen 7" Yale drive motors from a costumer that is scrapping out the jacks.
They have an drive shaft that is unuseable but the CE shaft is ideal. I'm
thinking these would be great small EV project motors. Their only drawback
would be driving from the comm end. Keep me updated if you decide to pull from
the CE as time goes by as it will add to the data of does and don'ts concerning
these motors.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey Stefan
>
> Okay I looked up the MKH motor in my Prestolite manual. Although it is listed
> as a traction motor it should only be a 2 terminal motor designed to run
> CCWDE, that's CCW looking at the drive (non-brush) end. If this is correct as
> to what you have then I don't know how you are getting CWDE as the motor is
> not set-up to rotate that direction.
I can flip the symmetrical rear differential in the car... the trans
will run happily in either direction. It's a double shaft motor with big
pulleys on both ends (which I'm removing soon) and identical keyed
shafts, so couldn't I just flip the motor around?
> Furthermore it shouldn't change anything electrically if Positive was
> connected to the "A" terminal or to the "F" terminal. That raises some flags
> for me as there maybe a short of some kind that is causing the motor to draw
> higher current.
It's only the initial surge current that is different (the old salvaged
unmarked ammeter jumps higher at first). The steady draw and RPM are the
same.
> This is unless you've disconnect the field jumper connection going to the
> brush ring.
I'll get a picture with that end cap removed this weekend so you can
take a look at the brush wiring. Thanks.
> Anyway here are the spec's
> 36 volt 19 amps 3250rpm's 0 Ft. Lbs.
> 36 volt 175 amps 1880 to 2100 rpm's 17.5 Ft. Lbs.
>
Nice, higher then I initially thought - wonder what 96V will do? The
motor weighs in at 117 Lbs (with pulleys), built like tank, hoping it
will take plenty of abuse :) Seems like an excellent deal for the $60 I
paid for it so far. The scrapper told me that there are quite a few of
these out there in old large floor washers.
--
Stefan T. Peters
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
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On Jan 10, 2006, at 9:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pay a buck to find http://www.myersmotors.com/?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5655015913
How much do you think we could get for http://commutercars.com/ ?
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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Not trying to be disparaging but is the quality going to be worth it?
Based on my
experience with other mechanical and electronic goods produced in China
I'd rather go buy something used from here or one of the others of known
quality.
Might be just a personal thing but I really would have a bit of
concern about this
based on my experience. Your mileage may vary though ;-]
Dave
> Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a piece about that new
Chinese car that will sell for under $10,000. Maybe that is a good place to
start for a glider.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
Hi All;
Saw a good article in yesterdaze NY Times. A Chinese out fit has a car
at Detroit, to show the world, They aim to come in at 10 grand, too.
Different than the "Cherry "one that is SUPOSED to go on sale here soon.
AFTER they get it to meet USA crash tests? Well, we ,USA , laffed at the
"Toyopets" and VW Beetles when they first hit these shores.Gees! Will they
sell them at Wal*Mart?<g>!
Chinese Auto folks might offer cars as AS BUILT Electrics, too. Hope
so.
Seeya at BBB
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
At 01:08 PM 11/01/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
The dark patina develops as the brush and comm create it. I've been told
that it can take up to 1/4 of the brush to create a nice patina. I
believe that would apply to just the OEM users, as most of the EV comm's
I've seen tend not to develop that solid deep dark patina I'm used to
seeing with lift motors.
G'day Jim - and all
I read somewhere (can't remember where, and assuming I remembered
correctly) that the patina on the commutator will develop quicker in more
humid environments. Long term the darkness of the patina will vary
depending on the humidity that the fork has been used in. High currents
tend to strip the patina and stop it getting that patina you (Jim) are used to.
The commutators in my motors have been anywhere from a darker milk
chocolate colour through to almost black. Almost black (IIRC) was from a
fork used in a fairly wet place.
Jim, does this agree with your experience? (My sample of 9 motors [so far]
is a bit small and has too little background information to be considered
more than ancedotal).
Regards
James
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--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:57:07 -0800, "Don Cameron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Not a guess. If you read my two other notes: this was confirmed by the tech
>at Xantrex.
>
>I do not understand the pushback on this. Again, a few people have had this
>problem, and the tech at Xantrex confirms it.
a) because it makes no technical sense.
b) lots and lots of people successfully use tapped batteries.
c) bad info has come from Xantrex before. Many times.
d) Without doing some sort of survey of users, there isn't much of any
way Xantrex or anyone else can determine the root cause of a failure.
They can see "overvoltage" but they can't tell where it came from.
>
>Why bother tapping the pack and risking the hassle of getting the thing
>fixed if a $10 miniature DC-DC is a reasonable precaution? Seems silly to
>me.
In most cases, I agree. I tap the battery of my 36 volt scooter
because I didn't want to increase the drain any more than the E-meter
itself and because I didn't want to spend the time figuring out where
to put the DC/DC, the latter being the larger issue.
The most correct advice is that using a DC/DC will remove almost all
the risk of over-voltaging the E-meter but if one is careful and knows
what he is doing, running it from a low voltage source is OK.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hey James, all
I'd say well put. Current for the lack of patina was my main thought, but
most have been racers or very new machines.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 01:08 PM 11/01/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
>The dark patina develops as the brush and comm create it. I've been told
>that it can take up to 1/4 of the brush to create a nice patina. I
>believe that would apply to just the OEM users, as most of the EV comm's
>I've seen tend not to develop that solid deep dark patina I'm used to
>seeing with lift motors.
G'day Jim - and all
I read somewhere (can't remember where, and assuming I remembered
correctly) that the patina on the commutator will develop quicker in more
humid environments. Long term the darkness of the patina will vary
depending on the humidity that the fork has been used in. High currents
tend to strip the patina and stop it getting that patina you (Jim) are used to.
The commutators in my motors have been anywhere from a darker milk
chocolate colour through to almost black. Almost black (IIRC) was from a
fork used in a fairly wet place.
Jim, does this agree with your experience? (My sample of 9 motors [so far]
is a bit small and has too little background information to be considered
more than ancedotal).
Regards
James
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
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--- Begin Message ---
I just received a letter from the California DMV. The letter
included a DMV form (REG 0010 new 1/2006) as a small slip of
paper stating:
-
ABOUT YOUR CLEAN AIR VEHICLE STICKERS!
(An Important Word From DMV and Caltrans)
* Carpool lane use may be restricted at any time by state and
federal law for all Clean Air Vehicles carrying fewer occupants
than the posted minimum requirement, if their presence is
determined by Caltrans to contribute to increased traffic
congestion, increased travel times, decreased sustained travel
speeds, or other factors affecting any carpool lane or segment of
that lane.
* The Clean Air Vehicle sticker program expires January 1, 2008
making all stickers invalid as of that date, unless the law
(California Vehicle Code Section 5205.5) authorizing their use
is extended beyond that date.
* Clean Air Vehicles that meet the posted minimum occupancy
requirements are not subject to the above restrictions.
Thank you for participating is DMV's Clean Air Vehicle sticker
program.
-
So what does this all mean?
-If Caltrans wants to they can yank our free-ride in the HOV
lanes.
-Note the wording, Caltrans does not want slow EVs in the HOV
lanes. I bet they have had some complaints. I always go the
speed limit and then get out of the HOV lane asap. I am only
in the HOV lane long enough to by-pass the traffic jams.
-With the large number of hybrids now getting HOV access,
Caltrans may have the excuse to shut it all down.
I suppose the letter was their way of letting us know things
could change. I just hope they let us know when they do change.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do not think the concern is EV's doing the speed limit or even slow
EV's has anything to do with this. The wording similar to that in the
Colorado law providing for Hybrids in the HOV lanes. They are trying to
put in a provision so that if there get to be too many hybrids in the
hov lane, the clean air car program can be modified.
The Colorado Law reads:
"In consultation with the regional transportation district, the
department of transportation and local authorities, with respect to
streets and highways under their respective jurisdictions, shall, in
connection with their periodic level-of-service evaluation of high
occupancy vehicle lanes, perform a level-of-service evaluation of the
use of high occupancy vehicle lanes by ILEVs and hybrid vehicles. If the
use of high occupancy vehicle lanes by ILEVs or hybrid vehicles is
determined to cause a significant decrease in the level of service for
other bona fide users of such lanes, then the department of
transportation or a local authority may restrict or eliminate use of
such lanes by ILEVs or hybrid vehicles."
In Colorado ILEV has a different definition than some other states.
EV's are classified as ILEV in Colorado. My hope is that when there get
to be too many hybrids in the HOV lanes, ILEV's are still permitted.
At any rate, when that time comes, the Denver brown cloud should be
considerably reduced.
Lynn
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of bruce parmenter
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:57 PM
To: evlist
Subject: CA DMV: Clean Air Vehicle Notification
I just received a letter from the California DMV. The letter included a
DMV form (REG 0010 new 1/2006) as a small slip of paper stating:
-
ABOUT YOUR CLEAN AIR VEHICLE STICKERS!
(An Important Word From DMV and Caltrans)
* Carpool lane use may be restricted at any time by state and federal
law for all Clean Air Vehicles carrying fewer occupants than the posted
minimum requirement, if their presence is determined by Caltrans to
contribute to increased traffic congestion, increased travel times,
decreased sustained travel speeds, or other factors affecting any
carpool lane or segment of that lane.
* The Clean Air Vehicle sticker program expires January 1, 2008 making
all stickers invalid as of that date, unless the law (California
Vehicle Code Section 5205.5) authorizing their use is extended beyond
that date.
* Clean Air Vehicles that meet the posted minimum occupancy
requirements are not subject to the above restrictions.
Thank you for participating is DMV's Clean Air Vehicle sticker program.
-
So what does this all mean?
-If Caltrans wants to they can yank our free-ride in the HOV lanes.
-Note the wording, Caltrans does not want slow EVs in the HOV lanes. I
bet they have had some complaints. I always go the speed limit and then
get out of the HOV lane asap. I am only in the HOV lane long enough to
by-pass the traffic jams.
-With the large number of hybrids now getting HOV access, Caltrans may
have the excuse to shut it all down.
I suppose the letter was their way of letting us know things could
change. I just hope they let us know when they do change.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
This came in on the EV Photo Album website. If anyone has a response
for Cheryl, I would be happy to forward it to her. Since she isn't
on the EVDL I didn't feel it was right to include her email address.
Can anyone help out here?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Cheryl Jaffe wrote:
4 - 5 years ago, we bought a blue 97 US Electricar Prizm. It didn't
work, we bought it as a project car. We tried to fix it up, new batts
and all, but without any luck. Recently my husband gave it another try.
One of your members put our Dolphin onto his car, and it worked. My
husband checked and charged the batts, and restored some broken
connections. The pack is good, but still no luck. Is there anyone
in the DelMarVa region who can help us check connections? Thanks for
your help.
------------------------------------------------------------
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