EV Digest 5097
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Volksrabbit issues
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: battery confusion abounds was Re: Bad floodies??
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: power steering
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Volksrabbit issues
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Milestone achieved but help needed
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: battery confusion abounds was Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Vacuum assist for brakes... was Re: Page 36 in the Harbor Freight
catalog.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Gliders
by Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
15) Pack voltage peripheral switch experiment results.
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Full-on controller failure
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Gliders - Terminology Check
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Volksrabbit issues
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Pack voltage peripheral switch experiment results.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Thundersky astonishing wishes [long] Great Letter!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The motor is actually under the motor mount on the body of the car. Is a
piece of sheet metal enough to hold it in place? There is a gap of an
eighth of an inch between the adapter plate and the 9 inch ADC. This baby
is stuffed in there. I don't know if I want to spend the 300 plus bucks for
an Electroautomotive adapter or do it myself. I did the one on my Aspire
with great success but I mounted the adapter to a body mount going around
the entire motor. Maybe that is what I should do it on this too but the
battery racks are in the way.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bassoonii/my_photos
I'm also worried about the motor unloaded spin. It seems to stop much
quicker than other electric motors I have used in my other cars. About 15
seconds of spin compared to what seems like a minute on other motors.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike wrote -
> who sells the BMS?
Lee actually just did a run of his battery balancer circuit boards (you can see
some specs and a description at
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/) which is his version of a
BMS. You might write him and see if he made any extra boards.
I and a couple others bought a set. I have 30 T-125's and I figure that I will
double their life so it is well worth the investment.
Hope this helps
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm about to mount an MR2 pump in my Cabriolet, hope it's not too loud...
Funny that MR2 owners don't complain :)
How about mounting the pump inside the power brake vacuum reservoir? Sound
won't travel through a vacuum, but heat won't either - ie: Thermos bottle.
I wonder if the power steering fluid would remove enough heat to keep the
pump itself cool? Are they thermally protected?
Let's see - a water cooled, vacuum mounted power steering pump!
How do motor/contactor characteristics change in a (slight) vacuum? Less
air for contact oxidation or cooling, nearly identical dielectric
strength, ???.
Adrian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Mr Nicad, AKA Batteries America will assemble a custom pack
for you.
An alternative that might be cheaper might be to buy a battery pack
for one of the second tier cordless tool suppliers (Ryobi, B&D, Harbor
Freight) and remove the needed cells from the pack. Seems like I saw
some Ryobi 12 volt batteries, 2 for $25 at Lowe's a couple of weeks
ago.
If all else fails, order the tabbed Sub-C cells and connect them
yourself. The tabs can be soft-soldered by using some good activated
flux. I've built many a pack that way. I bend each tab to point up
at the edge of the cell so that the cell cylinder and the tab are in
alignment. I can place two cells side by side, clamp the vertical
tabs together with hemostats or equiv and solder them. Then fold the
soldered tabs over one of the cells. the tabs are usually nickel and
accept solder well. Even stainless tabs will accept solder with good
flux.
A homemade spot welder is easy enough to assemble from junk you
probably have laying around. I can describe it if you're interested.
Soft solder works mighty well though.
John
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:33:24 -0800, Steven Lough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Seems I remember some one talking about assembled Packs of Sub-C NiCad
>batteries, with tabs... Been Googling for hours, cant seem to find a
>supplier. Lots of places to buy individual cells, with tabs...but would
>rather buy an assembled pack.. Like the Picture Below...
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Say, is copper desoldering braid useful for making conductors out of? I
had that idea awhile ago but wasn't really sure about it, thought the
flux might be a problem, maybe the width was too small too.
Danny
Neon John wrote:
I think Mr Nicad, AKA Batteries America will assemble a custom pack
for you.
An alternative that might be cheaper might be to buy a battery pack
for one of the second tier cordless tool suppliers (Ryobi, B&D, Harbor
Freight) and remove the needed cells from the pack. Seems like I saw
some Ryobi 12 volt batteries, 2 for $25 at Lowe's a couple of weeks
ago.
If all else fails, order the tabbed Sub-C cells and connect them
yourself. The tabs can be soft-soldered by using some good activated
flux. I've built many a pack that way. I bend each tab to point up
at the edge of the cell so that the cell cylinder and the tab are in
alignment. I can place two cells side by side, clamp the vertical
tabs together with hemostats or equiv and solder them. Then fold the
soldered tabs over one of the cells. the tabs are usually nickel and
accept solder well. Even stainless tabs will accept solder with good
flux.
A homemade spot welder is easy enough to assemble from junk you
probably have laying around. I can describe it if you're interested.
Soft solder works mighty well though.
John
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:33:24 -0800, Steven Lough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Seems I remember some one talking about assembled Packs of Sub-C NiCad
batteries, with tabs... Been Googling for hours, cant seem to find a
supplier. Lots of places to buy individual cells, with tabs...but would
rather buy an assembled pack.. Like the Picture Below...
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The motor is actually under the motor mount on the body of
> the car. Is a piece of sheet metal enough to hold it in
> place? There is a gap of an eighth of an inch between the
> adapter plate and the 9 inch ADC. This baby is stuffed in
> there. I don't know if I want to spend the 300 plus bucks
> for an Electroautomotive adapter or do it myself. I did
> the one on my Aspire with great success but I mounted the
> adapter to a body mount going around the entire motor.
> Maybe that is what I should do it on this too but the
> battery racks are in the way.
Danger Will Robinson, DANGER! ;^>
The torque reaction of the VW transaxle will force the tailshaft end of
the motor *downwards* with considerable force when accelerating
forwards, and *upwards* when accelerating in reverse.
Looking at your pictures, it seems the adapter plate is plenty beefy to
support the motor (i.e. 5/8"-3/4" aluminum plate); I believe Paul "Neon"
Gooch's buggy has survived just fine with a Prestolite hanging off his
adapter plate with no rear mount. The bit of sheet metal I think you
are referring to appears bolted between the endbell and the body; I
expect this to break in relatively short order due to the torque
reaction forcing the endbell up and down 1/2"-1" under acceleration.
If you are only concerned about the motor weight cantilevered off the
adapter plate, then you could rig something up that supports the endbell
relative to the tranny/adapterplate rather than to the body. For
instance, a couple of steel cables attached to a plate bolted to the
endbell and attached to tabs at the upper two adapter plate bolts, with
turnbuckles to allow tensioning the cables. Of course, you could use
solid arms instead to prevent upwards motion of the motor relative to
the adapter plate. Either of these approaches only has to handle the
140lbs of motor, not the torque reaction of the transaxle.
If you also want to resist the torque reaction, or have space
constraints that prevent any sort of mount above the motor, then I would
suggest fabricating a crossmember to fit transversely beneath the motor
and put a rubber mount/pad between the crossmember and the motor
case/endbell. Doing this it makes it easier to lift the front end on
acceleration, but does put stress on the motor casing. Some VW busses
used a rear mount that supported the (Beetle) engine from the oil
pump/cover bolts and this apparently resulted in case related failures
that simply don't happen with the same engine in a Beetle (no rear
mount).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Danny Miller
>Say, is copper desoldering braid useful for making conductors out of? I
>had that idea awhile ago but wasn't really sure about it, thought the
>flux might be a problem, maybe the width was too small too.
As wire goes, it's a pretty small gauge. OK for low currents though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got in trouble with Otmar. He hates being replied to on the list. He
says he gets the mother of all spam. I just didn't want to subject anyone
else to that possibility. The person's email is on the body of the text. I
said to Bcc Ray. Hope that will work. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Milestone achieved but help needed
Lawrence,
Bcc stands for Blind Carbon Copy, it means that a copy is sent to the
names on the list but that nobody can see the name, hence the Blind.
So nobody can respond to Ray as we can't see the address....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Milestone achieved but help needed
Forwarded from the SFEVA. Please reply to Ray in Bcc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: mike golub
>who sells the BMS?
I was just using my own as an example. It costs about $1000 for a 12-battery
system.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, works fine. Grounding braid is generally cheaper, though.
You have to be VERY careful soldering to the raw cell. There is a
relief valve and vent under one end. Two potential problems. One is
melting the valve or the cell seal. The other is plugging the vent.
Swelled batteries from overcharging aren't pretty!
Contrary to what is intuitive, a BIG HOT iron is what is required to
solder directly to the battery. This big hot iron gets the process
over with before the battery can heat soak.
I clamp the batter in a Panavise and the connecting strip or wire in a
"tech's helper" (alligator clips on articulating arms) so that they
touch. A drop of flux goes on the joint. Then with the big iron in
one hand and the solder in the other, I smack 'em together for a
fraction of a second. Then as fast as I can put down the solder and
get it, I quench the cell with a wet rag. I haven't damaged one yet
doing it that way.
The key is to have a large iron with a lot of reserve heat that can be
transferred instantly. I use a 200 watt iron designed for soldering
copper sheeting and stained glass. The barrel glows a dull red.
Many cells have the vent hole on the side of the pos terminal. For
those that have it in the center, you either have to solder off-center
or else plan on drilling a small hole through the interconnect. I try
to avoid plugging the hole if possible.
John
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:56:54 -0600, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Say, is copper desoldering braid useful for making conductors out of? I
>had that idea awhile ago but wasn't really sure about it, thought the
>flux might be a problem, maybe the width was too small too.
>
>Danny
>
>Neon John wrote:
>
>>I think Mr Nicad, AKA Batteries America will assemble a custom pack
>>for you.
>>
>>An alternative that might be cheaper might be to buy a battery pack
>>for one of the second tier cordless tool suppliers (Ryobi, B&D, Harbor
>>Freight) and remove the needed cells from the pack. Seems like I saw
>>some Ryobi 12 volt batteries, 2 for $25 at Lowe's a couple of weeks
>>ago.
>>
>>If all else fails, order the tabbed Sub-C cells and connect them
>>yourself. The tabs can be soft-soldered by using some good activated
>>flux. I've built many a pack that way. I bend each tab to point up
>>at the edge of the cell so that the cell cylinder and the tab are in
>>alignment. I can place two cells side by side, clamp the vertical
>>tabs together with hemostats or equiv and solder them. Then fold the
>>soldered tabs over one of the cells. the tabs are usually nickel and
>>accept solder well. Even stainless tabs will accept solder with good
>>flux.
>>
>>A homemade spot welder is easy enough to assemble from junk you
>>probably have laying around. I can describe it if you're interested.
>>Soft solder works mighty well though.
>>
>>John
>>
>>On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:33:24 -0800, Steven Lough
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Seems I remember some one talking about assembled Packs of Sub-C NiCad
>>>batteries, with tabs... Been Googling for hours, cant seem to find a
>>>supplier. Lots of places to buy individual cells, with tabs...but would
>>>rather buy an assembled pack.. Like the Picture Below...
>>>
>>>
>>---
>>John De Armond
>>See my website for my current email address
>>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>>A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one in nice shape. It will require a seal though. I bought it used
for $100 and would be happy to see the same.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_PowerBrakes.html
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Chancey
Sent: January 16, 2006 11:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Vacuum assist for brakes... was Re: Page 36 in the Harbor
Freight catalog.
At 12:42 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote:
>Any opinions on this approach ?
>
>http://www.california.com/~eagle/figs/vacpump/vac.html
The GM pumps work great, but you can't find them anymore. I have a page on
them on my website at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda/powrbrak.html
They haven't been made in about 20 years, so those that are left are in sad
shape. I tried ordering in a rebuilt one from Advanced Auto Parts several
years ago, when it came in it was damaged and it was the last one in their
system. I still keep an eye out for them at my local Pick and Pull. Maybe
I will stumble on a good one.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position.
(Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to second John on this one. I recently rebuilt a bunch of power
tool battery packs using a 180W iron that was probably new in WW2. The
body is about an inch in diameter and the actual tip is 1/2" diamter
copper, filed to a pyramid. It is the thermal mass, not the wattage
that is key. I tried my 340W soldering _gun_, and this was definitely
NOT the correct tool. There just wasn't enough thermal mass in the tip
to heat the cell quickly enough. By the time it was hot enough to melt
solder, the whole end of the cell was bubbling and hissing. (Glad I
bought a bunch of extra cells - I trashed that one.)
cheers,
Andrew
Neon John wrote:
Yup, works fine. Grounding braid is generally cheaper, though.
You have to be VERY careful soldering to the raw cell. There is a
relief valve and vent under one end. Two potential problems. One is
melting the valve or the cell seal. The other is plugging the vent.
Swelled batteries from overcharging aren't pretty!
Contrary to what is intuitive, a BIG HOT iron is what is required to
solder directly to the battery. This big hot iron gets the process
over with before the battery can heat soak.
I clamp the batter in a Panavise and the connecting strip or wire in a
"tech's helper" (alligator clips on articulating arms) so that they
touch. A drop of flux goes on the joint. Then with the big iron in
one hand and the solder in the other, I smack 'em together for a
fraction of a second. Then as fast as I can put down the solder and
get it, I quench the cell with a wet rag. I haven't damaged one yet
doing it that way.
The key is to have a large iron with a lot of reserve heat that can be
transferred instantly. I use a 200 watt iron designed for soldering
copper sheeting and stained glass. The barrel glows a dull red.
Many cells have the vent hole on the side of the pos terminal. For
those that have it in the center, you either have to solder off-center
or else plan on drilling a small hole through the interconnect. I try
to avoid plugging the hole if possible.
John
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 18:56:54 -0600, Danny Miller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Say, is copper desoldering braid useful for making conductors out of? I
had that idea awhile ago but wasn't really sure about it, thought the
flux might be a problem, maybe the width was too small too.
Danny
Neon John wrote:
I think Mr Nicad, AKA Batteries America will assemble a custom pack
for you.
An alternative that might be cheaper might be to buy a battery pack
for one of the second tier cordless tool suppliers (Ryobi, B&D, Harbor
Freight) and remove the needed cells from the pack. Seems like I saw
some Ryobi 12 volt batteries, 2 for $25 at Lowe's a couple of weeks
ago.
If all else fails, order the tabbed Sub-C cells and connect them
yourself. The tabs can be soft-soldered by using some good activated
flux. I've built many a pack that way. I bend each tab to point up
at the edge of the cell so that the cell cylinder and the tab are in
alignment. I can place two cells side by side, clamp the vertical
tabs together with hemostats or equiv and solder them. Then fold the
soldered tabs over one of the cells. the tabs are usually nickel and
accept solder well. Even stainless tabs will accept solder with good
flux.
A homemade spot welder is easy enough to assemble from junk you
probably have laying around. I can describe it if you're interested.
Soft solder works mighty well though.
John
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 14:33:24 -0800, Steven Lough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Seems I remember some one talking about assembled Packs of Sub-C NiCad
batteries, with tabs... Been Googling for hours, cant seem to find a
supplier. Lots of places to buy individual cells, with tabs...but would
rather buy an assembled pack.. Like the Picture Below...
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about the Chevy Aveo? The list price is $9890. A local Dealer in
LaCrosse WI said that recently they been going for $7990. China can't
beat that!
Tim
Aaron NMLUG-EV wrote:
On Wed, 2006-01-11 at 09:36, Bob Rice wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:00 AM
Subject: Gliders
Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a piece about that new Chinese
car that will sell for under $10,000. Maybe that is a good place to
start for a glider.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone - Thanks for the comments -
I fitted the new core in the housing and mounted it back up. Now all that's
left is reinstalling the rest of the car around it.
Bob - that's exactly right - after all the work pulling the old core out, I
suddenly realized I didn't know a whole lot about what I was putting in. I
don't want to repeat this exercise for a long time.
The core I pulled out looked like a premium piece to me - like they intended
it to last. That's what made me think about how long the new core would last.
Based on the comments, they seem O.K. - so I went ahead.
Thanks,
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I think I got you beat. Minds been going for 20 years since 1985. This type
> is
> a Phillips that has large 3/16 inch diameter wire that is coil in 1.5 inch
> diameter for 6 inches long. The material looks like the elements in a stove
> top.
>
> I do not know what material this is.
>
> It has several settings from Bake to Broil, I mean Low, Medium Low, Medium,
> Medium High and High. At high it will roast you out.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:50 AM
> Subject: Re: Longevity of ceramic heater core
>
>
> Mine's going on 2 winters in this rig; the last one
> lasted 4 yrs. and was doing fine when I sold it.
> PIcture the hot-wire element in your toaster.
> Considering we usually have to pull the dashboad on
> our rigs, we expect to have them last indefinitely!
> (;-p
>
> In 6 years of subscribing to the EVDL, I'd never heard
> of a post on heater core longevity, which is why I
> pulled your send down. There are no electronics
> (silicon) on it to fail, if that helps...
>
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone.
> >
> > I just spent quite a bit of time dissassembling and
> > removing the entire car from around the original
> > heater core so I could replace it with a electric
> > ceramic unit.
> >
> > What's the track record with these ceramic cores? Do
> > they hold up well, fail occsionally or (hopefully
> > not) fail often?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dana
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
>
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html<http://www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWith
> ACord.html>
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel?
> Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted a question week ago or so about what kind of switches or relays would
be suitable for peripheral devices that run on pack voltage -
156 nominal, in my case, short of using a contactor. Lee Hart suggested that a
switch rated for 4 times the AC voltage rating should work for
DC. John Luck Home posted about his experiences welding switches shut on his
220 system. I learned enough about snubbers and diodes
from Lee Hart and Ken Trough and google to get thoroughly confused. So I
decided to experiment. I hooked up my modified bad boy charger
(~180 VDC) to the ceramic heater I made by gutting a $18 unit from Home Depot
and replacing the AC fan with a 12 VDC fan. The heater drew
7 amps on the low setting, 14 on high. First I tried a 3PDT relay rated at 30
amps, 277 VAC or 28 VDC, with all three poles wired in series.
Adding the three switches at 277, divided by 4... carry the 3... well, anyway,
by Lee Hart's rule of thumb it should have worked. But I'm
thinking that that rule of thumb doesn't work so well when you want to use
under-spec'd switches in series - it sparked pretty good on each
break, and welded after about 15 cycles. (Pretty cool arc when it went.) So I
went back to plan "A", and wired 2 of the 3 pole relays in series,
for a total of 6 switches. The spark on breaking was minimal. I got tired of
flipping the switch after about 40 cycles; I think it's safe to rely on
wired up that way. Of course, it's a pretty clumsy contraption - about 4" x
2" x 1" with alot of wires and connectors sticking out - but it works,
and 28 VDC relays are cheap and readily available.
Steve Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a "Shake-a-Wake" alarm clock.
Two AA batteries drive a vibration motor,
so it wakes me up, and my spouse can
keep sleeping.
It nomrally pulses, 1 second of vibration,
2 seconds off, repeating, gradually reversing
the ratio after 15 seconds or so...
Sunday morning, at 4 am I was awoken
by full-on-continuous vibration.
Pulling the AA batteries stopped it.
(Try pulling out a 6 VDC flooded! :-)
Thanks to this list, I diagnosed that problem :-)
It seems the AAA battery that runs the
clock inside the Shake A Wake ran out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If these motors came from the model truck I think they did the
controller was a Shaffe Namco and it was a sepex design.
I do believe Curtis offers a 72 volt sepex controller, model 1244.
I have one of these controllers but it is only 36 volt and it has a
problem. I have never connected this controller to power so no idea what
it is wrong with it.
I also know that GE offered a 72 volt sepex controller in European markets.
Sepex is nice free regen and no reversing contactor.
Mike G.
At 04:45 PM 15/01/06 -0500, Steve wrote:
There have been some recent posts concerning a 7" x 15" lift truck
motor that
was thought to be a series wound motor, but is actually a sep ex
motor. <snip>
But, now it is 2 years later. I have more experience, and I have the
expertise of the whole list to ask for assistance. <snip> I was
thinking about the following:
One EV-1 controller 0 - 84 V PWM with 84 V full on bypass contactor
on the
armature
One EV-1 controller 0 - 48 V PWM (no bypass) on the field.
Hi Steve
Not having a shunt or sep-ex motor in my collection, I've not given
this in-depth research, only a little thought.
I agree with the two-controller concept, and I see this as a control
issue.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The regulations for the particular race im entering has a maximum of 32kg of
battery weight. (70.5lbs approx)
We are running an etek motor and an alltrax controller and want to run at
48v. The best setup looks like 2 optima red top batteries (listed here:
http://www.batteryweb.com/optima.cfm) since they are the seemingly the best
quality and highest output (44ah) batteries available (32lbs a piece
supposedly). The solar panels i got, (by following a good lead someone on
this listserv gave me) are a combination of (95) 5"x5" small squares each
rated at 5.6v and 1.5watts. If I can't find (4) 12v batteries which will
output just as much as the optima red tops, I would like to setup the solar
panels in series with the batteries to obtain 48v. I was originally going to
buy a solar pv charge controller to charge the batteries at 24v, however, to
get 48v i need to do something different. I am guessing any old step up
controller won't be applicable since it won't be able to handle the enormous
flux in the solar panels' current and voltage.
questions are
1. Batteries a good idea?
2. 48v everything in series going to last longer and be more efficient then
24v with a solar pv charge controller? (etek graph shows efficiency curve
nearly doubles in rpm from 24v to 48v)
3. What should i look for specifically to handle the solar panels and set
the output at 24v. (includes how to group and wire the solar panels)
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Small point of terminology here. A "glider" is a rolling chassis acquired
without engine, exhaust, fuel, and cooling systems. Manufacturers almost
NEVER supply these for conversion. Even Solectria was buying new Metros
from a dealer to make Forces.
What is generally being discussed on this list is a "donor" chassis, which
was once a fully functional ICE vehicle, and will be stripped of the ICE
components for conversion.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
Mark Freidberg
EAA member
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:04 PM 1/16/06 -0800, you wrote:
The motor is actually under the motor mount on the body of the car. Is a
piece of sheet metal enough to hold it in place?
The mount we use is 3/16" steel, and mounts to the original factory bracket
on the chassis with a rubber bushing. Yours looks much thinner. Too thin.
There is a gap of an eighth of an inch between the adapter plate and
the 9 inch ADC.
Why is there a gap between the adaptor and the motor? The adaptor should
mount flush against the motor face.
This baby is stuffed in there.
Yes, it is.
I don't know if I want to spend the 300 plus bucks for an
Electroautomotive adapter or do it myself.
You mean motor mount, not adaptor.
I'm also worried about the motor unloaded spin. It seems to stop much
quicker than other electric motors I have used in my other cars. About 15
seconds of spin compared to what seems like a minute on other motors.
The gap in the adaptor, combined with the quick rundown, suggests to me
that there is a problem in your adaptor, and the mainshaft of the
transmission is pressed up against the motor shaft, or the adaptor hub,
effectively locking them together. This would also make it very hard to
shift, because the clutch can't work.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
I'm using solid state relays that I got from Hosfelt Electronics, Inc or from
All Electronics Corporation. Just add . com on the end of these and you will
get to there sites.
I am controlling five fans, three heaters, two pumps using 10 solid state
relays that range from 10 to 40 amps at 480 VAC S.P.S.T normally open solid
state relays with a control voltage of 12-32 volts. The ones I received are
ITE for $12.00 each from All Electronics. They are Photo isolation, 600V
blocking voltage, 4000V isolation voltage, built-in snubber, and high surge
capability.
>From Hosfelt Electronics Inc. you can the same type with amperes that range
>from 10 amps to 110 amps at 120-240 VAC for $10.00 to $50.00.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: kluge<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:14 PM
Subject: Pack voltage peripheral switch experiment results.
I posted a question week ago or so about what kind of switches or relays
would be suitable for peripheral devices that run on pack voltage -
156 nominal, in my case, short of using a contactor. Lee Hart suggested that
a switch rated for 4 times the AC voltage rating should work for
DC. John Luck Home posted about his experiences welding switches shut on his
220 system. I learned enough about snubbers and diodes
from Lee Hart and Ken Trough and google to get thoroughly confused. So I
decided to experiment. I hooked up my modified bad boy charger
(~180 VDC) to the ceramic heater I made by gutting a $18 unit from Home Depot
and replacing the AC fan with a 12 VDC fan. The heater drew
7 amps on the low setting, 14 on high. First I tried a 3PDT relay rated at
30 amps, 277 VAC or 28 VDC, with all three poles wired in series.
Adding the three switches at 277, divided by 4... carry the 3... well,
anyway, by Lee Hart's rule of thumb it should have worked. But I'm
thinking that that rule of thumb doesn't work so well when you want to use
under-spec'd switches in series - it sparked pretty good on each
break, and welded after about 15 cycles. (Pretty cool arc when it went.) So
I went back to plan "A", and wired 2 of the 3 pole relays in series,
for a total of 6 switches. The spark on breaking was minimal. I got tired
of flipping the switch after about 40 cycles; I think it's safe to rely on
wired up that way. Of course, it's a pretty clumsy contraption - about 4" x
2" x 1" with alot of wires and connectors sticking out - but it works,
and 28 VDC relays are cheap and readily available.
Steve Kluge
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marc, I have the etek running with 48 volts. Frankly it lacked at 24v.
Personally if you can afford it, i would run the Odyessey pc 925a, and run at
least 3. Then your solar should be able to make up the rest. If you ran a
smaller 625, you could run 4 but ah is down to 16.
Paul
Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The regulations for the particular race im entering has a maximum of 32kg of
battery weight. (70.5lbs approx)
We are running an etek motor and an alltrax controller and want to run at
48v. The best setup looks like 2 optima red top batteries (listed here:
http://www.batteryweb.com/optima.cfm) since they are the seemingly the best
quality and highest output (44ah) batteries available (32lbs a piece
supposedly). The solar panels i got, (by following a good lead someone on
this listserv gave me) are a combination of (95) 5"x5" small squares each
rated at 5.6v and 1.5watts. If I can't find (4) 12v batteries which will
output just as much as the optima red tops, I would like to setup the solar
panels in series with the batteries to obtain 48v. I was originally going to
buy a solar pv charge controller to charge the batteries at 24v, however, to
get 48v i need to do something different. I am guessing any old step up
controller won't be applicable since it won't be able to handle the enormous
flux in the solar panels' current and voltage.
questions are
1. Batteries a good idea?
2. 48v everything in series going to last longer and be more efficient then
24v with a solar pv charge controller? (etek graph shows efficiency curve
nearly doubles in rpm from 24v to 48v)
3. What should i look for specifically to handle the solar panels and set
the output at 24v. (includes how to group and wire the solar panels)
~Marc
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marc, any chance your budget can afford LiPoly or LiIon? 32g batteries of
lithium goes a long way...
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marc Breitman
Sent: January 16, 2006 8:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
The regulations for the particular race im entering has a maximum of 32kg of
battery weight. (70.5lbs approx) We are running an etek motor and an alltrax
controller and want to run at 48v. The best setup looks like 2 optima red
top batteries (listed here:
http://www.batteryweb.com/optima.cfm) since they are the seemingly the best
quality and highest output (44ah) batteries available (32lbs a piece
supposedly). The solar panels i got, (by following a good lead someone on
this listserv gave me) are a combination of (95) 5"x5" small squares each
rated at 5.6v and 1.5watts. If I can't find (4) 12v batteries which will
output just as much as the optima red tops, I would like to setup the solar
panels in series with the batteries to obtain 48v. I was originally going to
buy a solar pv charge controller to charge the batteries at 24v, however, to
get 48v i need to do something different. I am guessing any old step up
controller won't be applicable since it won't be able to handle the enormous
flux in the solar panels' current and voltage.
questions are
1. Batteries a good idea?
2. 48v everything in series going to last longer and be more efficient then
24v with a solar pv charge controller? (etek graph shows efficiency curve
nearly doubles in rpm from 24v to 48v) 3. What should i look for
specifically to handle the solar panels and set the output at 24v. (includes
how to group and wire the solar panels)
~Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Thundersky astonishing wishes [long] Great Letter!
> Too Bad that there are reports that Chinese cities are
> banning electric bikes and scooters on the pretext that
> they are creating a pollution problem with the batteries.
> Actually it seems they want the appearance of being
> cosmopolitian with lots of automobiles instead of third
> world with bicycle traffic.
>
> Doc Kennedy
>
And they are getting rid of Steam Locomotives, too.Sigh! They sorta lose
face ass RR buffs from all over the world make pilgrimages to China., to
marvel at their antiquity.They are great copies of a WW1 US design,Nothing
Chinese about them, big ,smoky, sooty, black, fire breathing ,coal eating,
well, they have lottsa coal, and labor is cheap, sorta makes sense. If it
works don't fix it.They are going for Diseasels, too, but better yet to
electrics, when the 3 Rivers Damn comes on line for E power.And talk of a
Bullet train, EVen, they will have theirs before us!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Jan 2006 at 20:22, Mark Freidberg wrote:
> Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
Yes, and quite a lot of it too. If I'm not mistaken, nickel iron batteries
have a fairly low gassing voltage. I believe I've also read that for some
reason they even gas on discharge, though I don't know what that reason is.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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