EV Digest 5099
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Why no switching in the controller??-
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vacuum assist for brakes... was Re: Page 36 in the Harbor Freight
catalog.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Why no switching in the controller??-
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 72Volt charger
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by Marc Breitman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Why no switching in the controller??-
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) JET charger schematic
by Matt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Why no switching in the controller??-
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Joule Injected race day (Part 2)
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Joule Injected race day (Part 1)
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) re: Why no switching in the controller??-
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) What are the Specifications of the BB600?
by john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Inexpensive surplus high voltage circuit breakers
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) charge 2 cars at once?
by Jimmy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Why no switching in the controller??-
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Pack voltage peripheral switch experiment results.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Why no switching in the controller??-
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Bad floodies??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Solar/battery setup, recommended electronics?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you want reverse, the two battery wires need to be reverse
> connected to the motor.
Actually, it is worse than this for the series DC motor used in a
typical conversion.
Simplifying a bit, there are two coils in a series DC motor: the
armature and the field. As the name suggests, they are connected in
series, which means that they both see the full motor current (typically
a few hundred to a few thousand amps). To control the motor speed, you
need the single switch as you described, which essentially allows you to
turn the motor on and off really quickly. The speed of the motor will
vary depending how much of the time the switch is on and how much of the
time it is off.
To reverse the motor, you need to reverse *either* one of the coils, but
not both. This means that although there may only be two wires going to
the motor, you cannot simply reverse them to reverse the motor
direction. The typical approach is to use a reversing contactor set to
reverse the connections to one of the coils. This reversing contactor
set is a double pole double throw contactor that must handle full motor
current, and cannot be physically located inside the controller box
unless one is willing to run 4 separate cables between the motor and
controller (one pair to the aramture coil and one pair to the field
coil). The reversing contactor set is a several hundred dollar item,
and as has been pointed out, most donor vehicles already include a
transmission with a reverse gear for free so it makes economic sense to
use the existing reverse gear.
Seperately excited (sep-ex) motors also have the same two coils, but in
this case they are designed to be controlled (excited) independantly
(separately) of each other. Since the coils are not connected in
series, the field coil is designed to require much less current than the
armature coil. Since the coils are indended to be controlled
separately, there are 4 cables between the motor and controller: 2 heavy
ones for the armature coil and 2 light ones for the field coil
connection. Reversing the direction of the motor still requires
reversing the connections to one (but not both) of the coils, and since
there are individual connections between each coil and the controller
the revrsing means can be located in the same box as the rest of the
controller. Since the field coil requires much less current than the
armature coil, it is the one whose connections are swapped to control
the motor direction because the switch(es) required to do so are much
smaller than would be required to switch the full armature current.
Most often, the controller uses silicon devices to perform this
switching.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone was talking using a Scirocco brake Mastercylinder with no vacuum
assist. bolts right into the Rabbit. I have had plenty of cars with no
vacuum assist and a wild ride from 70mph to 0mph in Blue Meanie. No Vacuum
assist there either. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: Vacuum assist for brakes... was Re: Page 36 in the Harbor
Freight catalog.
Wanted to let new people know that I have MES-DEA pumps which cost
less than GM ones ($292) and meant for the job in an EV. 2 models are
now available.
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Sadly, yes. I looked for weeks in wrecking yards and online and couldn't
find this obsolete part. Excepton ebay at an infalted price, might as
well get the Bosch or ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And compared with an AC controller.
The AC controller needs 6 transistors just to make the 3 phase alternating
current to run the motor, the only thing that is needed to reverse the
motor is to reverse the sequence in which the transistors are switched.
On a DC motor the same thing could be done by rotating the brushes ~90° (4
pole motor) which if you can do the machine work yourself may be less
expensive then using contactors. It would be less weight and would give
the additional option of adjustable brush timing.
___________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wis.
At 01:00 PM 1/17/2006, you wrote:
Cor van de Water [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you want reverse, the two battery wires need to be reverse
> connected to the motor.
Actually, it is worse than this for the series DC motor used in a
typical conversion.
Simplifying a bit, there are two coils in a series DC motor: the
armature and the field. As the name suggests, they are connected in
series, which means that they both see the full motor current (typically
a few hundred to a few thousand amps). To control the motor speed, you
need the single switch as you described, which essentially allows you to
turn the motor on and off really quickly. The speed of the motor will
vary depending how much of the time the switch is on and how much of the
time it is off.
To reverse the motor, you need to reverse *either* one of the coils, but
not both. This means that although there may only be two wires going to
the motor, you cannot simply reverse them to reverse the motor
direction. The typical approach is to use a reversing contactor set to
reverse the connections to one of the coils. This reversing contactor
set is a double pole double throw contactor that must handle full motor
current, and cannot be physically located inside the controller box
unless one is willing to run 4 separate cables between the motor and
controller (one pair to the aramture coil and one pair to the field
coil). The reversing contactor set is a several hundred dollar item,
and as has been pointed out, most donor vehicles already include a
transmission with a reverse gear for free so it makes economic sense to
use the existing reverse gear.
Seperately excited (sep-ex) motors also have the same two coils, but in
this case they are designed to be controlled (excited) independantly
(separately) of each other. Since the coils are not connected in
series, the field coil is designed to require much less current than the
armature coil. Since the coils are indended to be controlled
separately, there are 4 cables between the motor and controller: 2 heavy
ones for the armature coil and 2 light ones for the field coil
connection. Reversing the direction of the motor still requires
reversing the connections to one (but not both) of the coils, and since
there are individual connections between each coil and the controller
the revrsing means can be located in the same box as the rest of the
controller. Since the field coil requires much less current than the
armature coil, it is the one whose connections are swapped to control
the motor direction because the switch(es) required to do so are much
smaller than would be required to switch the full armature current.
Most often, the controller uses silicon devices to perform this
switching.
Cheers,
Roger.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes also a 36V golf cart charger with a bridge on the output does 72V (93V
finish) charge well and there's a bunch around for a couple hundred bucks
(Ebay, local golf cart places). Put a uP dv/dt=0 algorithm on it to shut it
off properly so you won't fry your batts though.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: 72Volt charger
> ebay has a 72Volt ?? charger 1kw with pfc
>
> item # 4605500072
>
> Just thought i remember someone talking about 72V systems recently
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The generic batteries i believe are just "C" believe it or not. If my memory
serves me correctly that was what was on the side of the 12v 12ah batteries
they bought. That doesn't seem so irrational when you think about how
quickly the batteries died (about 15 minutes). Anyway, looks like im still
looking for a solid answer on 24v pv charge regulator vs 48v with stepup
controller. IMO it seems that any loss the step up controller would have
would be somewhat equivilant to the loss of a pv charge regulator which
essentially does the same thing but has a smart charging system built in.
Marc
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi bob
I had intended to come even had a ticket but hurt my
knee to the point of surgery so will not be able to
make it. please get lots of pictures of the freedom
and anything else you think might interest me and send
them to me if you would.. I will be glad to re emburse
you
thanks keith
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Whose going to BBB? Just curious, like where will
> folks be staying?Would
> imagine there are cheepo motels around in West
> Palm?Will be Jet Bluing in
> Fri.
>
> Seeya?
>
> Bob
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, I have never looked into the components of a controller and
certainly the explanation makes sense. I have lighting dimmer racks for
stage lighting that use large block Insulated Gate BiPolar Transistors as
the power control mechanism. They only control 2.5kw of power @ 120vt so
quite a bit less than the current through my curtis.
Thanks for your time and explanation.
Pedroman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: Why no switching in the controller??-
Simple - cost and heat.
For a DC controller, you need only 1 transistor.
(a really big and expensive one or many identical in parallel
to pretend they are one big transistor)
This one transistor is in between one of the battery wires
and the motor.
The other battery wire basically goes straight through the
controller to the motor.
If you want reverse, the two battery wires need to be reverse
connected to the motor.
To do this, you need at least 4 transistors.
In addition to the cost increase (hundreds of dollars) this
also makes the motor current always run through 2 transistors
instead of through one.
That means that double the amount of heat is produced and the
cooling needs to take care of that, so the unit must be larger
(also to accommodate the 3 extra transistors) and the
performance goes down (heat means loss of power).
Since a lot of conversions use the original transmission that
already has a reverse gear, the "backup" feature would be
unnecessary cost and losses for most DC conversions, so that
is why it was not required in the controller in the first place.
Hope this gives you a 1,000 ft view,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Why no switching in the controller??-
After some limited reading on the subject I realized that the typical DC
controllers didn't provide for internal switching for reverse. Why not?
Please keep the reply to one this novice would understand. I'm not an ee
so
I'd be better understanding the 1,000 ft view vs. the finite details but
from a simplistic view why can't you "switch" internally with a controller
for the reverse?? (say a curtis brand)
There are no dumb questions only dumb questioners!
Pedroman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use 7,2V RC cars pack:
3800mah
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6024226306&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
or single cells though complete kit you have to solder :
http://cgi.ebay.fr/Set-6-Intellect-IB-3800-Batteries-1-2-TRAXXAS-HPI_W0QQitemZ6028558921QQcategoryZ34063QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
but please use smart charger (ebay source either) with these beauties :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:33 PM
Subject: OT - 7.2 volt NiCad Pack - Source Wanted
> Seems I remember some one talking about assembled Packs of Sub-C NiCad
> batteries, with tabs... Been Googling for hours, cant seem to find a
> supplier. Lots of places to buy individual cells, with tabs...but would
> rather buy an assembled pack.. Like the Picture Below...
> ( see picture at:
> http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/NiCad7.2Pack.JPG )
>
> This is out of one of those "Swiffer" hardwood floor vaccum/duster
> thingies... And the origional Pack pre-matuely failed... it was a
> Chinese pack with a 1500mAhr rating
>
> Any one know a good source for assembled 7.2v Packs.
> I could spend a few more bucks for a pack around 2 or 2.5 ahr.
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have two diagrams for a Jet Charger. Model #9776 and #9324. Just
send me a fax number, or address.
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:02:16 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>Hello,
>I am rebuilding an 81 JET Electrica Lynx and am
>kicking it up to around 144V. I would like to know
>what the transformer specs are in the original 96V
>charger and was wondering if anyone has the schematic
>for it or knows where I can get a copy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(I started this message before Cor and Roger made it mostly redundant.
But I drew pictures, so I thought it was worth posting.)
On Jan 16, 2006, at 8:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
After some limited reading on the subject I realized that the typical
DC
controllers didn't provide for internal switching for reverse. Why not?
Mostly cost. It makes the controller more expensive. And most
conversions keep their transmission, which gives them a "free" reverse
gear, so most conversions don't need an electrical reverse. "Typical
DC controllers" are generally made for series DC motors, and reversing
a series motor is more complicated than you might think - see below.
Please keep the reply to one this novice would understand. I'm not an
ee so
I'd be better understanding the 1,000 ft view vs. the finite details
but
from a simplistic view why can't you "switch" internally with a
controller
for the reverse?? (say a curtis brand)
Another reason is that most conversions use a series DC motor. These
motors have the unusual property that you can swap the positive and
negative connections, and the motor continues to rotate in the same
direction. This is because the field coils and the armature coils are
wired in series (hence the name "series motor"). When you reverse them
both, they cancel out.
To make a series motor turn backwards, you need to rearrange the
connections so that the field coils are hooked up backwards. Let's see
if I can explain this better with an example.
On an ADC series motor, there are four terminals. S1 and S2 are the
field ("stator") coils, and A1 and A2 are the armature coils. Here's
how they're connected to a controller.
#########Controller########
# #
# #
# ###### #
# # # #
S1 S2 A1 A2
| | | |
| | | |
SSSSSSSSSSS AAAAAAAAAAAA
(SSS = stator coils, AAA = armature coils, | = connections inside the
motor, # = external connections (welding cable))
The controller is connected to S1 and A2, and there's a jumper wire
between S2 and A1.
So, reversing the leads from the controller reverses the stator coils
AND the armature coils. Two reverses cancel out, and the motor keeps
turning the same way.
To reverse the motor, you need to rewire the setup like this:
###Controller####
# #
# #
##########(##### #
# # # #
S1 S2 A1 A2
| | | |
| | | |
SSSSSSSSSSS AAAAAAAAAAAA
Now the controller is connected to S2 and A2, and there's a jumper wire
between S1 and A1. This reverses the polarity of the stator coils, and
leaves the armature coils alone. Now the motor will spin in the other
direction. (Of course, you could reverse the armature coils instead.)
A "reversing contactor" actually contains two contactors and is capable
of doing this switcheroo for you. Here's one, from EV Parts for $320:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?
id=615&product_id=1951>
If you wanted to do it in the controller, the wiring would look like
this:
########Controller#########
# # # #
# # # #
# # # #
# # # #
S1 S2 A1 A2
| | | |
| | | |
SSSSSSSSSSS AAAAAAAAAAAA
Four wires would come out of the controller and the reversing contactor
functionality would be included inside the controller.
But as we saw above, most people wouldn't need this functionality and
wouldn't care to pay for it.
Note that different types of motors behave differently, and are
generally easier to reverse them electrically than series DC motors
are. Permanent magnet motors only run the armature coils with
electricity, so reversing the polarity reverses the motor (the
permanent magnets don't change polarity). Shunt motors have their
stator and armature coils controlled separately, so it's fairly easy to
reverse one of them and reverse the motor. AC motors need a pretty
complicated controller, and it's just as easy to make the motor turn
backwards once you've got it turning forwards.
Also note that all of these motors can easily be used as generators for
regenerative braking.
About all that the series motor has going for it is - you guessed it -
it's cheaper.
(And it has more starting torque too.)
There are no dumb questions only dumb questioners!
There are also dumb answers. Hopefully this wasn't one of them. I'm
not an expert by any means.
Pedroman
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
. . .continued from Part 1. . .
I pull into the lane behind several other cars and it seems like an eternity
before I'm number one in line. I start the data acquisition on the laptop
and then proceed to do everything wrong with the burnout. Dennis, avert your
eyes! There's no line lock and the little 240SX front brakes are not up to
the task of holding back both of the drag radials; I'm out of the bleach
box, and to top it off, the Zilla is trying to shift into parallel during
the burnout. Note to self: set option J next time! Okay, bag the burnout,
pull up and stage. Set the G-Tech Pro meter. . .wait. . .wait. . .launch!
1200 amps is not enough to break the tires loose so the car hurtles forward!
Then. . .it quits pulling! Nothing at all for a full second or two. Foot off
the accelerator, then back on it. The car pulls hard again. Then stops. This
run's a bust. Back around the return lane, I wave off the timing shack guy.
He appropriately drops my timeslip into the garbage can.
Back to the pits, we look over the error codes. "1213: Motor contactors did
not turn on". Why? Bad contactor? Bad auxiliary contact? Compounding this
was the ominous code, "Major overspeed either motor beyond redline by X".
The high RPM limit was set conservatively and the car was driving around
fine after the run, so it's got to be an overspeed just on the burnout, but
not bad enough to cause (obvious) damage. The S/P contactor looks fine. The
aux. contacts test out okay. I recall that one of the auxiliary contacts
didn't quite engage when I originally installed them. I expanded the spring
a little at that time to positively switch the contact when the contactor
was engaged. Could that be the problem?
Since the car seems to be operating properly, Shawn, Lowell and I figure
another run is in order to try to nail down what might be intermittently
occurring. So, shut down and unplug the charger, back to the lanes, around
the bleach box, start DAQ, stage and launch. No intermittent behavior here:
exactly the same situation except this time I stay on the accelerator to
make analyzing the data easier. It seems like two or three seconds of lurch
in between lunges. Back to the pits to review error codes and run data. Same
motor contactor error and sure enough, there's about two or three seconds of
inaction while the Zilla's trying to shift into parallel.
Shawn and Lowell are hovering over the S/P contactor while I work the
switches from inside. Main contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .Forward
contactor. . .<click!>. . .ON. . .parallel contactor. . .<click!>. . .but
Shawn reports nothing at the auxiliary contact! Now Lowell notices that
theres a small gap between the parallel contacts. Turns out it's the S/P
contactor after all! Seems like there's something impeding the movement of
the contacts. After a little fiddling with it, it snaps into place!
Repeating the test procedure multiple times gives consistently good results!
The car's been unplugged during the whole test process, so the batteries are
in bad shape. Only 307V on the pack! Just as the little 3600 W generator
gets going with about 5 amps into the pack, Lowell reports that the track is
clearing out. Sure enough, only another ten minutes or so until they close
it all down. One last chance to see if a solid run can be turned in. . .
Last week I wrote:
"I'm going to try to take it easy on the driveline at the track this
Sunday. Most likely, I'll keep it
under 1200 motor amps in series mode. Then the following weekend at
Battery Beach Burnout
I'll bump up the amps a little at a time. On the later runs we'll see
just what warm batteries,
higher amps, super wide and sticky BF Goodrich drag radials, and a
limited slip differential
will do to shave some time off December's run!"
Okay, so I didn't exactly stick to the plan and took it up to 1300 amps on
the last run. Unfortunately, I would be running a tired battery pack and
cold tires, too (I didn't want to use up any more of the pack on a burnout).
Also not part of the plan! But at this point, I wanted to regain a little
dignity and get data for a complete run, even if it turned out to be a 15 or
16 second run.
I pulled right in and around the bleach box, started DAQ, staged and
launched. The tires bit hard, the contactors and parallel shift worked
flawlessly and the car pulled hard all the way down the track. It felt good!
But it didn't turn out exactly as I expected. Instead of a high 15 or low 16
second run, the car ran a 13.607 at 98.39 mph!
It was an incredible finish to an otherwise bad day at the race track. But
then again, this day was meant for testing, and I really feel great about us
being able to work through and figure out the problem. Strange but true:
"Happiness is an error code" when it comes to debugging curious EV behavior!
Thanks Otmar!
Thanks also go out to the pit crew, Shawn and Lowell. Aside from identifying
the exact problem, it's a lot of time and effort to load up, haul the car to
and from the track, and keep the process running smoothly. Unfortunately,
Lowell wasn't able to finish up his Porsche in time to take it to the track,
but I know he's hard at work on it right now, preparing for the race.
I've got a back-up S/P contactor ready to go for Battery Beach Burnout, so
with a little luck and a fully charged pack we should see another EV in the
100 mph club this Friday!
Hope to see you there!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com>
Hobe Sound, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone!
As promised, Sunday was an opportunity to test out all the recent changes to
the 240SX before Battery Beach Burnout this Friday. The new Nissan
differential has been installed for about a week now, and my new BF Goodrich
drag radials were mounted on the 16" wheels at the end of last week. Not
surprisingly, though, I was still reassembling the car on Sunday morning,
and the plan was to run the car right around noon!
The day started out early -- by 5:30 AM I was wide awake, going over the
list of to-dos in my mind:
1. Install new parking brake cables
2. Install and adjust new drum brakes
3. Reinstall front 4-lug hubs, brakes and wheels (5-lug hubs won't fit on my
car)
4. Hook up and bleed brake system (primarily the new rear ones)
5. Fabricate and install drive line loop
That was plenty enough to give me a sleepless night! The late start was
unavoidable, though. Missing parts and a long-overdue visit from my younger
brother and sister kept me from taking care of those details until the last
minute. Coffee was on and breakfast finished by 6:30. By 10 AM, I had the
front of the car back together and my new drive line loop installed. I used
1/8" X 2.5" wide steel and bent it in sort of an Omega shape for the loop.
It's perfectly placed right behind the slip-spline on the shaft, and mounted
directly into the original location of the carrier bearing from the old
shaft. So, no more visions of me and the car doing cartwheels down the track
as the driveshaft lets loose and embeds itself into the track -- sort of
like when the Mach 5 (Speed Racer) drives the plunger into the ground at
speed!
The new parking brake cables and drums were sort of a bear to properly route
and adjust, and in the end, I just got them "good enough" to move on.
Thankfully, there's not much in the way of hills around South Florida that
demand perfect adjustment on the drums. Still, with no transmission/parking
pawl, it's kind of nice not to have to lean out the door and install the
parking brick behind a tire!
The brake bleeding was a group effort: my sister slowly pressing the brake
pedal, me working the bleeder valves at each of the four calipers, and my
brother refilling the brake reservoir every so often. By late morning, we
were pretty much done and ready for a test drive. I wanted to get a quick
cycle on the batteries, and it was looking like Shawn, Lowell and their two
sons were (thankfully) running a bit late with the trailer.
My sister and I take off down the street. It's the first time she's ever
been in the car, and my first time with the new tires and LSD. After coming
to a stop at the end of the road, I make the turn and give it about
half-throttle. Gone is the characteristic squeal of the tires and the
back-end of the car slipping out to the side. Instead, the BFGs are gripping
hard -- even on cold pavement -- and the tire squeal is replaced by the
nervous laugh of my sister! Down the road a few miles and a few spirited
starts later, we head back to the house and get the car on charge. I give
the rear brake lines another tweak to get out the last of the air, and the
three of us gulp down some lunch.
Unfortunately, after sitting so long over the holidays and the recent
upgrade period, the batteries were pretty badly out of balance. The PFC-20
was cutting back as the regs on a couple batteries were getting hot. That
left about 20 batteries in far from optimal condition! And this is when
Shawn, Lowell, Bryce and James pull up with the trailer.
Well, there's no avoiding it: we get everything loaded up and head out to
Moroso with batteries that are not well-conditioned or charged up. I'll just
have to put it on the generator for a bit when we get there, right?
Wrong. After we arrive and go through tech inspection, we find that the
timing shack is only staying open for another 15 minutes! To the rescue,
Gary -- ever the gracious host at Moroso -- assures us he'll get timeslips
for the car. So back to the pits we go, talk it over and review the Zilla
settings. I'm comfortable running the car with the batteries as they are.
This day's primarily for testing, and I want to get a run in at 1200 amps on
the series launch and see how everything holds together!
. . .concluded in Part 2. . .
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com>
Hobe Sound, FL
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I assume you are talking about the DC series motor controllers like the
zilla.
I'll take a stab at it. Commutation is inside the motor. if you reverse
the power thru the controller, the motor still runs forward. You
actually must reverse the relation of the armature to the field. This
would mean 2 more big cables to the unit.
Also, The topology is low side switching, it makes it
easier/safer/cheaper to activate the gates of the mosfets.
IE
in the controller
B+ --------------------|----M+ ------ [field]
freewheel _|_ |
/_\ [armature]
__|__ | |
B- ---------/ \------|----M- ----------
many mosfets
The diode is to allow the current to continue to flow during the
mosfet's off part of the PWM cycle
There is no need to switch to reverse while applying current, so a
contactor is cheaper, The zilla can provide control for such contactor.
Now Sepex is another animal and since the field is such low current, you
will probably find reverse avail inside such controllers. Just reverse
the field.
In the world of AC(alternateing current) the commutation is in the
controller, just change the order of commutation and viola!, reverse.
and since the gearbox can be eliminated in AC conversions reverse (and
regen) is basically free and in the controller.
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I'm looking for the specifications of the BB600 nicad battery, mostly concerned
with the weight. I am judging that each cell will weigh 4 pounds, as im
calculating weight for a go kart that is in construction. Does anyone have a
accurate figure on the weight of these cells? Thanks for any info.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
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FYI
I ordered some 160V DC circuit breakers from
http://www.solarseller.com/dc_circuit_breakers__dc_circuit_breaker_ul_listed
_to_125_volts_dc.htm 6 for $120 (thanks for the shipping help Victor!).
These are brand new surplus breakers which from the ratings appear as though
they will work well for EV applications. They have quite a few left in
stock left at $30 bucks each.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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Has anyone charged two cars at one time off the same
charger? My charger can handle 50 A continuous but I
was wondering if anyone has charged two strings of
(25) T125 trojans in parallel. will one string tend
to get lazy or will everything be just peachy? I have
charged smaller parallel packs but never strings this
long.
Any info is appreciated.
Jimmy
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I thought the zilla does high-side switching?
--
Martin
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I assume you are talking about the DC series motor controllers like the
zilla.
I'll take a stab at it. Commutation is inside the motor. if you reverse
the power thru the controller, the motor still runs forward. You
actually must reverse the relation of the armature to the field. This
would mean 2 more big cables to the unit.
Also, The topology is low side switching, it makes it
easier/safer/cheaper to activate the gates of the mosfets.
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Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> The flooded cells will lose capacity much faster than the AGM's when
> they're cold.
Not really. I have used both floodeds and AGMs in Minnesota, and both lose
capacity at about the same rate. AGMs typically have a lower internal
resistance to begin with, so you don't notice the loss as much when cold if
you stay over 50% SOC. But once you get below about 50% SOC with either type,
they just won't let you drive when they are cold.
> Also you run the risk of them freezing in a not-fully-charged state.
The freezing point is no different for floodeds, gels, or AGMs. Some gels and
AGMs have a stronger plastic case that is better able to resist breakage when
the internals freeze (Hawkers and Optimas). But the run-of-the-mill flat
plate gels and AGMs have cases no better than flooded; anything more than 0.5
psi or so opens the vents.
Gels and AGMs tend to stay charged longer (lower self-discharge rates). What
you may be seeing is that floodeds run dead from sitting, and *then* freeze;
while the gels or AGMs maintained enough charge to keep them from freezing.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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kluge wrote:
> I posted a question week ago or so about what kind of switches or relays
> would be suitable for peripheral devices that run on pack voltage - 156v
> nominal, in my case... So I decided to experiment.
A good strategy. Experimentatal results beat armchair engineering every time!
> I hooked up my modified bad boy charger (~180 VDC) to the ceramic heater...
> The heater drew 7 amps on the low setting, 14 on high.
Minor point. If your 'bad boy' charger has no output filter capacitor, then
the voltage isn't DC but rather pulsating AC. This automatically extinguishes
the arc at every zero crossing (every 8 msec). Connect a big filter capacitor
or the pack itself to get true DC.
> First I tried a 3PDT relay rated at 30 amps, 277 VAC or 28 VDC, with all
> three poles wired in series. Adding the three switches at 277...
Be aware that the conventional way to rate relays is to give the DC rating
*per contact*. When you have a DC rating, it takes precedence over any rule
of thumb values. So three of these contacts in series are rated 28vdc x 3 =
84vdc.
Also, the AC ratings assume *two* contacts in series for voltages over 120vac.
In other words, the 277vac rating is for *two* contacts in series; thus 277 /
2 = 138.5vac per contact. Three of these contacts in series can switch
138.5vac x 3 = 415.5vac.
> So I went back to plan "A", and wired 2 of the 3 pole relays in
> series, for a total of 6 switches.
That should work, because you've got a 6 x 28vdc = 168vdc contact rating. Make
sure both relays are always switched at the same time (for example, wire
their coils in parallel).
A snubber will help further, if you feel inclined. You'll notice that it too
dramatically reduced arcing.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Mark Freidberg wrote:
> Do/Did Edison Batteries emit Hydrogen gas?
Yes, while charging. Quite a lot, actually. Excessive gassing and high water
usage was a shortcoming of the nickel-iron (Edison) cell.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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jerry halstead wrote:
> Hi Lee,
> When you say AGMs have a shorter life than floodeds are you comparing
> them to 6volt floodeds or all floodeds in general?
I was speaking in general of the kinds of batteries most people are using in
their EVs. Naturally, there are "short life" and "long life" versions of all
types; floodeds, gels, and AGMs.
> My old SCS225's didn't have all that much of a cycle life, especially
> compared to their 6v counterparts
The 12v SCS225 is rated for 300 cycles; the 6v golf cart batterie are rated
for 600 or more cycles. Both are floodeds; the 6v just happens to be designed
for longer life.
> Also, didn't someone mention new Trojan 12v batteries that are using
> the same plates as the 6v? Wouldn't that increase their cycle life?
> What's the downside?
Sure; the J185 is basically two 6v batteries in the same case. Thus it is a
12v battery with the same plates, same life, and same amphour capacity as two
6v batteries. The downside is that it weighs twice as much and is twice the
size (15" x 7" x 14.5", 122 lbs).
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> After some limited reading on the subject I realized that the typical DC
> controllers didn't provide for internal switching for reverse. Why not?
Most controllers don't come with contactors. You always need contactors
anyway, and the ones used will vary depend on the application (max voltage,
max current, how long you need this peak current, etc.)
Also, the contactors provide electrical reverse (if needed). If your EV has a
transmission, you don't need a reversing contactor. If your EV has no reverse
gear, then you use a reversing contactor.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> Don't forget the other benefits of sealed batteries.
>
> **They maintain capacity better when they are cold, AGM's more so than
> Gels, however both retain much better than floodies.
>
> **Gels come back (with the usual life reduction) from deep discharges and
> freezing a little better than AGM's but still much better than floodies.
>
> **They typically have higher CA and CCA ratings than floodies.
>
> **They will charge at a higher rate than floodies if your charging time is
> limited.
These are characteristics of specific batteries, not of sealed vs. flooded
batteries in general.
Temperature affects all lead-acid batteries the same; lower temperatures
increase internal resistance and voltage sag, lower amphour capacity, and
raise the voltage and time needed to reach full charge. But if you pick a
battery whose internal resistance is lower to begin with (either flooded or
sealed), then it has to get colder before its internal resistance rises
enough to notice.
A battery's CA and CCA ratings, and the maximum charge and discharge rates are
directly related to its internal resistance. The manufacturer makes this
resistance low by using thin plates, thin separators, and thick
interconnects. But these all take away from amphour capacity and cycle life.
Sealed batteries are generally built with a lower internal resistance than
floodeds (but not always; some have even higher resistance than floodeds,
such as the small gel cells used for alarm systems).
How well a battery "comes back" after a deep discharge is a function of plate
construction. Thick plates and separators provides higher strength, which
better resists shedding, warping, and shorting and thus allows deep dischares
and a long cycle life. Deep cycle floodeds for EV use tend to be built this
way (i.e. fork lift and golf cart batteries). But it's easy to find examples
of flooded batteries with thinner plates and separators (marine and starting
batteries).
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Marc Breitman wrote:
> I'm going to half to disagree with using UBC batteries, or any type of
> "generic battery" which comes in all shapes and sizes...
Never believe a battery manufacturer's data sheet! For marketing and other
reasons, they always lie. And, different manufacturers tell different lies,
so you can't really compare them!
The key is that you ALWAYS have test the batteries yourself. That is the only
way to know which one is better. You must test them under conditions that are
similar to how you will actually be using them as well. The specs with a
25amp load don't mean much if your actual load is 100 amps.
> Fortunately for us our car was running two deep cycle odyssey batteries and
> went through with flying colors. This year, we can't use those batteries
> because they are too heavy
Their weight has to be very close. Don't Odysseys have those handles and other
"features" that aren't needed for racing? You could shave these off to save
weight. I recall Rick Woodbury and John Wayland trimming them with a table
saw to fit!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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