EV Digest 5105
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: NEDRA Class Definitions
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Votes, off to the Races!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) motor & controller formulae book
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Safety First, was NEDRA Class Definitions
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) inside information about Bill
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Safety First, was NEDRA Class Definitions, comments.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: motor & controller formulae book
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Contactor on Ebay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: motor & controller formulae book
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) NEDRA Elections
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery Beach Burnout
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: inside information about Bill
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Apoplogy,Re: inside information about Bill
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: inside information about Bill
by "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: inside information about Bill
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Not the NEDRA Forum
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NEDRA Charter Violation (was: Battery Beach Burnout and NEDRA Class
Def)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Being human, bruised ego's and fighting the good fight RE inhouse fighting
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: MOTOR INSTALLED Alaska Update
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: NEDRA Charter Violation (was: Battery Beach Burnout and NEDRA Class
Def)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: NEDRA Charter
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis Berube said:
When making your new rules for nedra ck out the NHRA rules with
detail, for these are the rules everyone must ultimately abide by at
there local track.
Yes, Dennis, excellent point. We make it very clear that all NHRA safety
rules must be followed at all times.
In the "safety equipment" section of the Street Conversion class (for
instance), we talk about several specific NHRA requirements, then sum up
with "All other NHRA safety measures and all other NEDRA safety measures
required." There is similar language in the other classes.
Feel free to review the class descriptions in detail for yourself at:
http://nedra.com/class_rules.html
-Ken Trough
Public Relations Director, NEDRA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup! Just voted again! Heartwarming, like watching an EV, White Zombie for
one ,toast a ICE machine that is suppost to be fast, and damn noisy, to
boot. Just LOVE those launches!I can see Matt runaway from gassers in MY
time zone EVen! Wheee! Getting stuff together to pile aboard Jet Blue
tomorrow, off to the races, as they say. And the Freedom EV body rollout. I
sure hope that it can work out. I know Jerry's been busy trying to get it
showable. Got all the Cameras ready.
Seeya there tomorrow!
Bob
>
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
Vote early and often as they used to say in Chicagoland<g>!1, 2 and
almost 3!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was curious if there was a good formulae book for controls & motors. I have
Richard Valentine's book but isn't a reference of formulaes and Howard W. Sam's
but doesn't have the type of stuff I see from Lee like armV = rpm's x field
current type stuff for Regen SepEx etc.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis, thanks for bringing up the NHRA safety rules. NEDRA voted several
years ago to follow NHRA rules and all NHRA safety rules. NHRA safety rules
supercede any NEDRA class rule. If any NEDRA member finds a class rule they
feel is not aligned to NHRA safety rules please bring this up to the rules
committee. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: NEDRA Class Definitions
In a message dated 1/19/06 5:00:10 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: NEDRA Class Definitions
Date: 1/19/06 5:00:10 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ken Trough)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ken Trough posted:
>> To review the new class descriptions, check out the relevant NEDRA
>> page:
>>
>> http://nedra.com/class_rules.html
[EMAIL PROTECTED] responded:
> Since the rules are so much different than they used to be, have you
> folks figured out how the previous record holders will fit into these
> new classes?
Ken Trough responds now:
Yes the new classes are different. That's because we have not had any
significant detail in the class descriptions to date for the
organization. We are trying to build NEDRA into a professional
organization with clear organization, classifications and divisions.
It's not that new difficulties have been added for racers, rather new
opportunities for record setting have been added.
The class definitions are an evolving process that will be refined as
time goes on. We are talking all feedback and all suggestions to the
rules committee for consideration. Not just feedback from NEDRA members,
but from the interested public, or "future NEDRA members" as I like to
call them.
Also, we are working hard to get the old record holders refit into the
new classes right now, as you well know, Bill.
Bill is on the record here and with NEDRA that he does not approve of
parts of the new rules definitions. Many of his suggestions were
incorporated into the new class descriptions, and some ultimately were
not. All were considered.
The new class descriptions were ultimately a double democratic process,
first in the rules committee and then with the board of directors prior
to approval and posting. They will continue to be refined as time goes
on.
If you have any comments either pro or con regarding the new class
definitions, the new voltage divisions, or anything else, I will be glad
to forward them to the appropriate party in the NEDRA organization.
-Ken Trough
Public Relations Director, NEDRA
** Ken, >>
When making your new rules for nedra ck out the NHRA rules with
detail,(are
any nedra board members current nhra members?)for these are the rules
everyone
must ultimately abide by at there local track.Our local track
techs.oftentimes
let us SKATE on tech but if there is an accident we all could pay.Besides
safety,would it be fair to all those future racers trying for a record to
run say
low 11s and claim the record(by carrying less weight) in a class but not
have
the required safety equiptment(rollbar/cage ect.)?
While building the S10 street/drag truck I have been surprised at
all
the rules I must follow to run just 11.50et.For instance A rollbar system
passes from 11.50 until you get to 10.99 then a full cage is mandated.
BE
SAFE BE FAIR Dennis Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dennis,
Just so you know, Bill is no longer on the board. He was let go by me for
incompetence. Board members serve a two year term. His was up. The President
and Vice President are elected officials. The other board positions are
appointed by the President. Bill was asked repeatedly to redo and clarrify
the class rules for almost three years and refused to do so. He is pissed
because he was let go. That is why he is trying to stir up trouble on the
List.
Roderick
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Safety First, was NEDRA Class Definitions
> Dennis, thanks for bringing up the NHRA safety rules. NEDRA voted several
> years ago to follow NHRA rules and all NHRA safety rules. NHRA safety
rules
> supercede any NEDRA class rule. If any NEDRA member finds a class rule
they
> feel is not aligned to NHRA safety rules please bring this up to the rules
> committee. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Roderick Wilde
> NEDRA President
>
> Hi Rod an' All;
So glad to see you guyz DOING this sorta stuff, from a guy with a
trolley car slow EV, myself. In that you can work with NHRA and that THEY
are willing to accept EV's, period. To me , that is no small thing.! As EV's
come on mainstream, safety hasta be a thought about thing. I have seen
horific crashes on vidio of ICE drag racing, when the guy was killed
instantly when the car blew apart, rolled, and impaled on the guard rail. As
electrics are getting to death defying speeds we don't wanna lose anybody!
Hell! you guyz are messing with almost RR voltages and amps now! Plasma Boy
was lucky! Not to have serious burns, everlasting, from his "short
circus(circuit)"we make light of. OH HO...BAD pun<g>! At Amtrak," It isn't
OFF if it isn't tagged and grounded" From our fun book" Electrical Rules."
Thank you , all you on thre NEDRA team, and whoever, for setting safety
stuff to strive for!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
I am using: Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers. The one I like to
used is the Sixth Edition which is a very early year (1936) model handed down
to me from my father plus later editions by McGraw-Hill Book Company.
It is very detail, more so than the latest editions. It is about 3000 pages
long and contains everything you would want to ever know about any any
electrical
devices, electronic circuits, calculations and construction of that time.
These handbooks contain sections in:
Units and Conversion Factors
Measurements and Measuring Apparatus
Electric and Magnetic Circuits
Magnets, Induction Coils, Condensers and Resistors
Transformers, Regulators and Reactors
Direct-current Generators and Motors
Converters and Rectifiers
Electrochemistry and Electrometallury
Batteries and Charging Systems
Electric Vehicles
Electric Railways
And a section on Power Transmission, Distribution, Buildings and Industrial
Plants.
Go to the library to the reference section and see what the latest additions
are. Many of these subjects and newer subjects are listed in separate books.
You can get a electrical engineering hand book with the above type of data. A
electronics engineering hand book may not list this data.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Hanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: motor & controller formulae book
Hi,
I was curious if there was a good formulae book for controls & motors. I
have Richard Valentine's book but isn't a reference of formulaes and Howard W.
Sam's but doesn't have the type of stuff I see from Lee like armV = rpm's x
field current type stuff for Regen SepEx etc.
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
150A 270VDC Kilovac contactor on Ebay: Item no. 7582866044
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out this site
http://www.4qdtec.com/
You get more detailed information if you pay to join,
$22
http://4qdtec.com/Contact/Join.html
Rod
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I was curious if there was a good formulae book for
> controls & motors. I have Richard Valentine's book
> but isn't a reference of formulaes and Howard W.
> Sam's but doesn't have the type of stuff I see from
> Lee like armV = rpm's x field current type stuff for
> Regen SepEx etc.
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all NEDRA members. This note was not going to be posted until after the
Battery Beach burnout event because Chip was going to set up a Yahoo site for
members to go to make nominations for President and Vice President Dean had
mailed out nomination forms to NEDRA members last November. We came to find out
that most people did not get them. We voted to do the process over. We also
voted to streamline it using the miracles of modern technology. Actually old
systems such as computers and FAX's. We used to mail them out and wait a month
for their return. The NEDRA board is working very hard to streamline the system
to better handle the future of NEDRA. With more events being held all the time
the workload is getting huge. It took us four months, with a great deal of
thought, to get the new rules in place. The new rules only moved one car's
record. That is the "White Zombie" which moved up into the new Pro Street
Class. Many of you remember all the discussion on installing a reverse in
John's car. John was on the rules committee and voted for this rule as he
thought it was in the "Spirit of the Class". Everyone on the board is working
very hard for you and to move NEDRA out of the dark ages. If you do not think
we are doing a good job you can vote the President and Vice President out of
office. The board members who voted on the new rules were Brian Hall, Chip
Gribben, Ken Trough, and Roderick Wilde. We put the new rules up on the NEDRA
site so they could be reviewed by all members and we requested comments. Just
as the NHRA rules are a fluid document, so are these.Changes can be made at any
time. If you are a NEDRA member and have a particular issue then please contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
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--- Begin Message ---
To all BBB racers. We did want to have all the other class rules done before
the season started. We started this process months ago. We started with the
Street Classes because we realized this is where most racers race. The rules
committee will continue to work on finishing them up. It is perceived that
there will not be much change, only clarification. This should not effect
any new records. The most important thing you need to be concerned with at
your event is having fun. Electric drag racing is one of the few sports in
the US that hasn't gotten so competitive between racers that the fun is
taken out of it. I believe it is because we all have a common goal and the
competition isn't between racers but between racers and all the
misconceptions of slow EVs in our culture. As long as I am President of
NEDRA I will keep emphasizing the EV grin and keeping electric drag racing,
NEDRA style, as a fun sport. This in itself will help grow the sport.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA President
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--- Begin Message ---
If only you guys would just all get out on a farm someplace line up on a
line, whip it out, and see who really can piss the farthest we could get
over having that contest on the list several times a year. aaaarghhhh.
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: inside information about Bill
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:18:10 -0800
Hi Dennis,
Just so you know, Bill is no longer on the board. He was let go by me for
incompetence. Board members serve a two year term. His was up. The
President and Vice President are elected officials. The other board
positions are appointed by the President. Bill was asked repeatedly to redo
and clarrify the class rules for almost three years and refused to do so.
He is pissed because he was let go. That is why he is trying to stir up
trouble on the List.
Roderick
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--- Begin Message ---
I greatly apologize for pushing the send key before checking the address.
This message was meant for Dennis only. I guess the cat is out of the bag
now.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:18 AM
Subject: inside information about Bill
Hi Dennis,
Just so you know, Bill is no longer on the board. He was let go by me
for incompetence. Board members serve a two year term. His was up. The
President and Vice President are elected officials. The other board
positions are appointed by the President. Bill was asked repeatedly to
redo and clarrify the class rules for almost three years and refused to
do so. He is pissed because he was let go. That is why he is trying to
stir up trouble on the List.
Roderick
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--- Begin Message ---
Notice that they still haven't answered the question why they didn't allow
the NEDRA members to comment on the new rules (as required in the
charter.) Also notice that they are not answering why they didn't let the
board vote on the final version of the new rules (also required by the
charter.)
They are resorting to personal attacks to deflect attention from these
serious issues.
These class rule changes don't personally effect my vehicle. As a
competitor, it is NOT at all in my best interest to speak out about these
issues. I would be smarter to remain silent.
I feel that the NEDRA member's best interests are not being served. That
is why I am speaking out.
As for the rest of the below, it is mostly fabrication. Contact me off
list if you are interested in the details, as I'm am sure that the list
(non-NEDRA members) is not interested .
Bill Dube'
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Just so you know, Bill is no longer on the board. He was let go by me
> for
> incompetence. Board members serve a two year term. His was up. The
> President
> and Vice President are elected officials. The other board positions are
> appointed by the President. Bill was asked repeatedly to redo and clarrify
> the class rules for almost three years and refused to do so. He is pissed
> because he was let go. That is why he is trying to stir up trouble on the
> List.
>
> Roderick
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
--
Bill Dube'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
Notice that they still haven't answered the question why they didn't
allow the NEDRA members to comment on the new rules
We have answered this repeatedly. Members and the public are free to
comment, recommend changes, praise our hard work, or complain if they
like. We are taking all comments and criticisms to the rules committee
directly. Please quit distorting the facts Bill, and please quit trying
to represent NEDRA on the EVDL.
-Ken Trough
Public Relationd Director, NEDRA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all List members. My sincerest apologies for all the non EV postings this
morning and of wasting your time. Let's get back to the subject matter of
this list, EVs. Everything else needs to be taken off list. Again my
apologies.
Roderick Wilde
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--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube said:
The rules they published DID NOT pass a vote of NEDRA board. (A much
earlier version was voted on with a tie vote.) These rules (as written)
would NOT have passed a vote, so Rod and Ken "skipped" that charter
requirement. How long would a NEDRA board vote have taken? A day?
This is simply not true. The board voted and the measure passed. We have
a record of this.
I am not the only NEDRA board member upset by all this. I'm just the
only one speaking out. Don't shoot the messenger.
This has not been announced on the EVDL, but Bill Dube is not a NEDRA
board member anymore. His term ran out at the end of last year and he
was not reappointed by the current NEDRA president, Roderick Wilde.
As the former National Technical Director for NEDRA, Bill Dube was
originally charged with writing these class description rules himself.
He is on the record as pledging to do this repeatedly for something like
three years now with no actual progress made.
The president took the task out of his hands due to his gross inaction
and incompetance (the President's words, not mine), and Bill appeared to
do all he could to block any progress by the rules committee and the
board for the remainder of his term. He was not reappointed to the Tech
Director role this year due to this failure to perform the basic duties
of his office, and now he is trying to raise a stink here on the EVDL
about the rules.
The rest of us are trying to promote this sport, hold a successful event
in Florida, and grow this organization during what is looking to be a
breakout year for electric drag racing.
Bill forgot the Spirit of NEDRA which is to HAVE FUN and promote
electric drag racing.
-Ken Trough
Public Relations Director, NEDRA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The main thing I suppose is to have a matched SepEx controller to the motor
as it's more critical than just slapping a generic chopper control on a
series motor. I thought on accel in a series motor about 1/2 voltage drops
across the field, guess I'll have to hang a meter off one next time I hit
the peddle :-) Seams like if a SepEx control is properly matched right then
as you say the SepEx should outperform the series in the same size and have
regen. I'm getting one from Rod to try. I had fairly good acceleration from
my SepEx 72V Bombardier with a Curtis control and an ADC 6.7" motor.
BTW, I always wanted to convert a Cushman since age 5 when I mentioned to my
mom when I saw one in downtown DC that it would make a good electric, she
thought I was weird. Now I'm 50 and converting one to electric and mom said
"son, your weird". Guess we'll see how it handles with 750 lbs of lead sunk
in the frame. Folk's I've talked to who have had the ZEV version seam to
like it.
I got the differential slop out last night which is especially damaging to a
rear end on a direct drive electric. I removed a .030 shim on the worm gear
shaft where the drive axle connects (per recommendation from Werres corp
Cushman guru). Also removing a shim behind the left 10" brake drum plate
removes the rest of the slop.
Thanks, Mark
signing off tomorrow
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: Sep Ex - Is it really as bad as I make it out to be?
> Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Why would a SepEx be 1/3rd, is that due to the limited
> > current or wattage (field strength)? I figure mine would
> > be on acceleration 72V (at 1 ohm) x 72A = field5184W in the
> > field on a SepEx or on series 36V x 500A = field18000W.
>
> Slight problem with your math/logic, Mark.
>
> In the sep-ex case you have computed only the field power, but in the
> series case you appear to be comparing it to the full motor power. The
> field winding of a series motor only drops a volt or two of the applied
> voltage, so just as in the sep-ex case, its power is a fraction of the
> total motor power. It does not drop 1/2 the applied voltage, as your
> math implies.
>
> On acceleration, the sep-ex motor in a vehicle like the Dynasty IT (just
> because I have personal experience with that one) will draw the full
> 400A @ 72V allowed by the Curtis sep-ex controller; it doesn't matter
> how much of that is consumed by the field and how much by the armature.
> The torque and RPM may be different than for a series motor fed the same
> power, but the HP to the ground is similar if the motors have similar
> efficiency (and sep-ex typically has the edge).
>
> The direct drive sep-ex Dynasty IT has plenty of snap off the line; it
> is quite easy to beat unsuspecting ICEs across an intersection. It is
> about 1500lbs and runs a 72V pack with a Curtis 1244 or 1274 400A sep-ex
> controller.
>
> You are looking at spending $125-150 for a series field (plus labour?);
> have you considered just purchasing a proper sep-ex controller for your
> motor instead? Seems to me that someone on the list had a 1244 or 1274
> for sale not that long ago and perhaps it is still available.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I'm compelled to step in and throw a little water on the flames here. Being
human we come in a million and one flavors. Seeing eye to eye is difficult at
best, adding the burden of satisfying the masses must seem impossible to those
involved. Whether people want to admit it or not everyone has an ego. Some
may keep it in check, but when found to have egg on ones face, it hurts. I try
to use those lessons wisely as to not repeat them. I was recently blessed with
having Roy Lemeur over after he found himself unemployed. There was some hurt
feelings and I was able to (I hope) point Roy into funneling his energy in a
more productive direction. I suggested he compile a list of those who have
worked with him and to add pic of the conversions he had so that his energy was
focused on the future (a resume) and not the past. Gossip and anger are the
ally of hatred and hatred is a divider of men.
When I first arrived here at the EVDL I started spouting about my likes and
don't likes. It didn't take long to see that I stepped on the toes of those
who had put their time, their money, and their hard fought heart, into
business that are directed toward the EV movement. On the other side I'm
trying to call stuff as I see them as best I can so that as a whole we don't
stagnate but advance past where we are now. I try to do this with tact and
without trying to bad mouth the existing products that are available even more
important the people running them.
As far as Rod's miss directed post, been there clicked that, I'm sure we have
all done it. In my cases they were just motor update stuff, no biggie.
Gossipy replies can bite back as we have seen.
As members of a community I hope we can keep these occurrences to a minimum
as we grow. Each and every member has the duty to shoulder the image of this
group. If I might be so bold Rod as president shoulders a higher image to
uphold and I hope that flame-on mode simmers to a medium heat before he clicks
send 8^ )
I was able to meet Rod at Woodburn and although we haven't spent much time
together I was able to see his passion runs deep for EV's and EV'ers. I enjoy
Rod's personality and commitment to the sport. I hope I am close enough to have
wagged my finger in his face and he don't come down and beat my ass, LMAO!
He's bigger than I am, hehehehe.
I for one have met nothing but Friends and I look forward to meeting more.
I'll end with, I hope we can all continue to fight the good fight and to allow
others their opinion. I ask all of you to realize when an opinion becomes
gossip. Someone has to allow the other to get the last hit in, who's that
gonna be??
Just to much good shit going on to argue about the small stuff and well it's
all small stuff. Besides you guys are distracting me from worrying about my
motors during the Battery Beach Burnout tomorrow, LMAO!
Peace
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
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Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The main thing I suppose is to have a matched SepEx
> controller to the motor as it's more critical than just
> slapping a generic chopper control on a series motor.
Right; sort of like the situation with AC motor/controllers, but not
quite as finicky.
I don't know what one does to configure a Zapi sep-ex controller, but
with the Curtis 1244/1274 controllers, just buy/borrow/rent a Curtis
programmer and configure away.
> I
> thought on accel in a series motor about 1/2 voltage drops
> across the field, guess I'll have to hang a meter off one
> next time I hit the peddle :-)
Definitely report what you observe! My understanding is that only a
small fraction of the applied voltage is dropped across the field of the
series motor. A couple of thoughts supporting this opinion are that the
field resistance is a constant (does not charnge with motor speed), and
is on the order of some milliohms (since field weakening typically
involves connecting a short length of wire in parallel with the field to
divert 25-50% of the current away from it).
However, the effective resistance of the motor *increases* with RPM, as
demonstrated by the fact that for a fixed voltage a series motor draws
less current as its RPM increases. At stall, something like a 9"ADC is
supposed to draw something like 3600A with 96V applied; this suggests a
total resistance of about 0.027 ohms; at 3000RPM the curves show it only
drawing about 300A. 300A at 96V is an effective resistance of 0.320
ohms, so even if we assume the field was responsible for the full 0.027
ohms at stall, it is now only about 1/10th of the total motor resistance
and is only dropping about 8V of the 96V applied.
> signing off tomorrow
Good luck with the new job!
Cheers,
Roger.
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mike golub [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 5- I got some angle iron from some bed frames. I've
> cut it up so I can run one bar each across the engine
> mounts, and then run another two bars from the front
> holes (which are 5/16" thread) to the other bars.
Mike, beware the bed frame angle iron: it tends to be thin and breaks
easily.
"Proper" angle iron is pretty cheap stuff to buy and I'd strongly
suggest that you consider investing the $20-50 it might take for the
proper material rather than risk having these bed frame pieces fail on
you.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Hi Bob and All,
I'm gettng ready to come down but had some
problems getting my chassis core material so haven't been
able to complete that. So I'll just have the body which
popped out cleanly, alway a possible problem pulling
fiberglass parts. That looks good for future ease of
production and long mold life.
Can't wait to meet everyone, will have some
VHS EV vids if there is a VHS player around.
Bob, if you can bring some Selectria Sunrise
body pics would be nice.
See you all there,
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:22:04 -0500
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:18 PM
>Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where?
>
>
>> hi bob
>> I had intended to come even had a ticket but hurt my
>> knee to the point of surgery so will not be able to
>> make it. please get lots of pictures of the freedom
>> and anything else you think might interest me and send
>> them to me if you would.. I will be glad to re emburse
>> you
>> thanks keith
>>
>
> Hi Keith;
>
> Bummer! Ouch! I felt twinges of that up here!Well, I'll
>take a buncha pix fior you an' all.Plan on Joliet Ill, the
>RT 66 Dragway, in the spring?I'll give ya a shout on the
>fone from trackside and Freedom's Rollout.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hi EVerybody;
>> >
>> > Whose going to BBB? Just curious, like where will
>> > folks be staying?Would
>> > imagine there are cheepo motels around in West
>> > Palm?Will be Jet Bluing in
>> > Fri.
>> >
>> > Seeya?
>> >
>> > Bob
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
>> around http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
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Ken Trough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This has not been announced on the EVDL, but Bill Dube is not a NEDRA
> board member anymore. His term ran out at the end of last year and he
> was not reappointed by the current NEDRA president, Roderick Wilde.
This is all that needed to be said on the topic of Bill's board
membership status; the additional comments were unecessary and
inflammatory.
> [...] and now he is trying to raise a stink here on the EVDL
> about the rules.
Your implication is that Bill's motivation is spite rather than genuine
concern over the process NEDRA followed. Bill has stated that he is not
completely happy with the content of the new rules, but has not
elaborated or dwelled on that; his [repeatedly] expressed concern has
been that NEDRA did not follow its own established/stated process for
vetting rules/rule changes prior to putting these new rules into effect.
This seems like a valid concern, and it has not been addressed: can a
NEDRA representative please confirm what *precisely* the NEDRA charter
says about the process for vetting new rules/rule changes? Only then
can Bill's concern be either acknowledged as valid or dismissed as
unfounded; attempting to dismiss the concern through attacks to Bill's
credibility and character is pointless and reflects particularly poorly
on the NEDRA representatives resorting to such tactics.
If NEDRA wants to present a professional appearance, then its
representatives must behave accordingly. However rightly or wrongly
disgruntled Bill may or may not be, he is a NEDRA member and has
expressed a concern without resorting to name-calling yet the response
from NEDRA representatives has been to attack Bill presonally rather
than to provide a straight and impartial anwser.
> The rest of us are trying to promote this sport, hold a
> successful event in Florida, and grow this organization
> during what is looking to be a breakout year for electric
> drag racing.
>
> Bill forgot the Spirit of NEDRA which is to HAVE FUN and promote
> electric drag racing.
More unecessary and inflamatory comments.
Regardless of any recent differences of opinion between Bill and other
NEDRA board members it would be an extreme disservice not to recognise
the contributions Bill has made to the success of NEDRA and promotion of
electric drag racing during the years of service he has provided with
NEDRA.
The professional thing to do would be (would have been) to acknowledge
Bill's past contributions, thank him for his service and either announce
the appointment of NEDRA's new technical director, or perhaps note that
the position is now vacant and seek nominations or encourage qualified
NEDRA members to express interest in being considered for the position.
Does NEDRA have a technical director? (The NEDRA site continues to list
Bill in that position.)
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Bill for his contributions to
NEDRA over the years, and to thank the rest of you at NEDRA for your
continuing efforts to further the sport. It couldn't have got to where
it is now without *all* of your efforts.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Roger,
A well thought-out post. As far the question on the Charter, here is what
the Charter says below) sorry it didn't copy well from Word):
NEDRA Charter
Last Updated 8/2/98
1. NEDRA Membership and Voting
The National Electric Drag Racing Association (hereafter NEDRA) has
membership open to all persons. Corporate memberships are also available.
Membership categories and fees are determined by the Membership Director,
subject to majority approval of the Executive Board (defined below).
Each NEDRA member receives one vote in all elections. Each corporation that
is a member of NEDRA receives exactly one vote, regardless of the number of
memberships the corporation may hold.
2. NEDRA Officers and Executive Board
NEDRA officer positions are volunteer positions. All NEDRA officers must be
NEDRA members with their membership paid in full throughout their time of
service as a NEDRA officer. If an officer's membership lapses for more than
thirty days, then that officer will no longer hold that position.
2.1. NEDRA Officers
2.1.1. President
The President oversees and coordinates all NEDRA operations, through the
NEDRA Executive Board. The president makes appointments to national
director positions, subject to majority approval of the Executive Board.
The president may create temporary appointed positions as necessary. The
president may fill vacancies in the NEDRA board by appointment, subject to
approval of a majority of the remaining board.
2.1.2. Vice President
The Vice President becomes president in the event that the presidency
becomes vacant.
2.1.3. Membership Director
The Membership Director keeps and maintains all membership records and
information. The Membership Director is responsible for disseminating
ballot proxies, membership cards, and benefits information to the members.
The Membership Director is responsible for providing a current list of NEDRA
members to all sanctioned NEDRA events and to the Public Relations Director
for member mailings. The Membership Director also defines the various
membership categories and membership fees, subject to approval by a majority
of the executive board.
2.1.4. National Technical Director
The National Technical Director is in charge of establishing and updating
the NEDRA safety rules, including definitions of vehicle classes, voltage
divisions, and safety requirements. The national technical director also
oversees the safety inspections for all NEDRA events.
2.1.5. Treasurer
The Treasurer is responsible for all bookkeeping and accounting for NEDRA.
At the end of each calendar year, the treasurer must produce a financial
report for that year, showing income and expenditures. This report must be
made available to the executive board and to NEDRA members upon request. A
budget for the upcoming year must also be submitted and approved by the
executive board, as described below.
2.1.6. Public Relations Director
The Public Relations Director is responsible for coordinating the support
and maintenance of the NEDRA web page. The public relations director also
coordinates publication of a NEDRA newsletter. The public relations officer
also keeps and maintains official NEDRA records and publishes the list of
record holders.
2.1.7. Merchandise Director
The Merchandise Director is responsible for coordinating the creation and
sales of NEDRA merchandise, such as race videos, posters, and apparel.
2.2. Election of Officers
The President and Vice President positions are elected positions. The term
of office is two years, beginning January 1, 2000. Elections will be held
by ballot after July 1st and before September 30th of the preceding year.
Nominations must be announced to all NEDRA members, and the period for open
nominations must last at least thirty days. If there is an event scheduled,
voting may be done at that event, as long as each NEDRA member gets exactly
one vote (as described in Section 1). NEDRA members not at that event must
be mailed a ballot and given at least thirty days to return a completed
ballot. In order to vote, a person or corporation must have a valid NEDRA
membership on the day that voting starts.
A person may only run for one position, either president or vice president.
The person in each category with the most votes will be elected to that
position. In the case of a tie, a run-off election will be held between the
top two vote-getters for that position.
There is no limit to the number of terms a person can hold.
Once a president and vice president have been chosen, the other executive
board positions will be filled by appointment. These positions are also
two-year positions, beginning at the same time that the president and vice
president take office.
2.3. Removal of Officers
Any officer on the executive board, including the president and the vice
president, may be removed from office based on abuse of office or inability
to perform the duties of the position. The removal from office can be
brought about in two ways.
The first way an officer can be removed is by the executive board. Any
officer of the executive board may request that an officer be removed from
office. Such a request must be presented to all other members of the
executive board, including the officer whose removal is sought. No vote can
be taken for at least 24 hours after the initial request for removal. In
addition, no vote can be taken until the officer whose removal is sought has
a chance to respond to the board as a whole, or thirty days has passed from
the officer's receipt of the notice to be removed, whichever comes first. A
vote of removal by the executive board requires a two-thirds majority vote
of the remaining executive board.
The second way an officer can be removed is by the NEDRA membership as a
whole. In order for a request for removal to come from the NEDRA
membership, a petition signed by at least 10% of the current NEDRA members
must be presented to the executive board. If a NEDRA member wishes to
circulate such a petition, the NEDRA board must provide either the
membership list (with addresses) or offer to send out the petition itself,
but in either case, the expense is borne by the individual initiating the
petition. Once such a petition signed by at least 10% of the current NEDRA
membership is received by the executive board, the officer whose removal is
sought must be given an opportunity to rebut any accusations made. A ballot
with both the accusations and the rebuttal will then be sent to the NEDRA
membership as a whole (at NEDRA's expense). Thirty days after the mailing
goes out, if two thirds or more of the votes received are for removal, then
the officer is removed from office immediately.
2.4. NEDRA Executive Board
The NEDRA Executive Board is comprised of the President, the Vice President,
the Membership Director, the National Technical Director, the Treasurer, the
Public Relations Director, and the Merchandise Director. All other
officers, including temporary appointments made by the President, are
considered non-voting members of the board (and are not counted as board
members for the purposes of establishing a quorum or majority).
In order for the NEDRA Executive Board to do business as NEDRA (e.g. approve
a budget, remove an officer, etc.), a quorum shall consist of two-thirds of
the members of the Executive Board, and must consist of either the President
or the Vice President.
2.5. Filling of a Vacancy
If an appointed position becomes vacant, the president may appoint, subject
to approval of a majority of the rest of the executive board, a replacement
to finish the term. If the presidency becomes vacant, the vice president
becomes president. If the vice presidency becomes vacant, (including the
case in which the vice president becomes president after a vacancy in the
presidency), a special election will be held to replace the vice president
if there is more than one year left in the term, otherwise, it is left to
the discretion of the executive board (either to call a special election to
fill the vacancy or to leave the office vacant until the next regular
election).
3. NEDRA Rules
The National Technical Director is in charge of establishing and updating
the NEDRA safety rules, including definitions of vehicle classes, voltage
divisions, and safety requirements. Any change to the NEDRA rules must be
approved by a majority of the executive board and the National Technical
Director. Once a rule change has been approved by the executive board, the
text of the rule change must be sent to the NEDRA membership. The new rules
take effect thirty days after such notification is made or at a later date
if specified in the rule change.
4. NEDRA Budget
At the end of each calendar year, the treasurer will oversee the creation of
a financial report for that year and a proposed budget for the following
year. The financial report must show income and expenditures, either
itemized or by category, and must be distributed to each of the members of
the executive board and to any NEDRA member who requests a copy. The
proposed budget should show projected income and expenses, and should
allocate money for specific uses, such as advertising or track fees.
Each budgetary item may be assigned to one of the executive board members.
This means that the assigned board member may spend that money for its
designated use without additional approval by the executive board. All
money budgeted but not assigned to a board member can be spent only upon
approval of a majority of the executive board. Any expenditures over 10% or
$100 (whichever is smaller) of the budgeted amount in a category must be
approved by a majority of. the executive board. The budget for the year
must be approved by a majority of the executive board by the end of the
previous year.
In an election year, the outgoing treasurer will oversee the financial
report for that year, but the budget will drawn up by the incoming treasurer
and approved by the incoming executive board.
5. Requirements for a NEDRA Sanctioned Event
One important role of NEDRA is to sanction electric drag racing events. To
sanction such an event, a majority of the executive board must approve
sanctioning the event. Also, the National Technical Director must designate
a Event Safety Inspector (possibly the National Technical Director
himself/herself) to be present at the event to conduct safety inspections
and qualify vehicles for racing. All decisions made by the Event Safety
Inspector at the time of the event are final, and no appeals to the National
Technical Director (if different than the Event Safety Inspector) are
allowed.
6. Amendments to the NEDRA Charter
In order to amend this charter, a proposed amendment must be submitted to
all NEDRA members in writing. This can only be done through the NEDRA
executive board. If a proposed amendment is accepted by the NEDRA executive
board, the executive board may choose to have NEDRA pay the costs of
printing and mailing of ballots. If a proposed amendment is not supported
by a majority of the NEDRA executive board, the ballots could still go out
if an individual or corporate member of NEDRA chooses to accept the of
printing and mailing of ballots.
There are two ways for an amendment to pass. The first is for it to receive
a positive vote from a two-thirds majority of the total NEDRA membership.
The second is for it to receive a two-thirds majority of all the ballots
cast after thirty days after having been sent out. That is, after being sent
out, the number of ballots returned during the next thirty days are totaled,
and a two-thirds majority of that number is sufficient to approve the
amendment. If, during the course of the thirty days, the number of
affirmative votes exceeds two-thirds of the total number of NEDRA members,
the amendment is passed immediately.
All amendments take effect thirty days after approval, or at a later date if
so specified by the amendment.
Members who join NEDRA more than one day after ballots for a proposed
amendment have already been issued are not allowed to vote on that amendment
and are not counted in the total number of NEDRA membership.
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NEDRA Charter Violation (was: Battery Beach Burnout and NEDRA
Class Def)
...
This seems like a valid concern, and it has not been addressed: can a
NEDRA representative please confirm what *precisely* the NEDRA charter
says about the process for vetting new rules/rule changes?
...
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