EV Digest 5581
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) multiple strings
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla Data question
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Daytime lights requirement?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Daytime lights requirement?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Anyone else seen this one? -- try ... "beyond tomorrow"
by "GM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Daytime lights requirement?
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: S10 Conversion
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Regen Off the Bat
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Regen Off the Bat
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: S10 Conversion
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Impressions of a newby - 50 EV miles and counting
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Daytime lights requirement?
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Basic Manual Charger Schematic
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Newby
by "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Regen Off the Bat
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Daytime lights requirement?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) is copper all the same?
by Staffanson Brian J Civ 309 EMXG/QPE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Powerglide 2-speed Transmission
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) STM5-180 Ni-Cad charging algorithm & battery care
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Robert,
If it's a on board charger that is a non-isolated type, it is best to install
the charger inside a plastic or fiberglass enclosurer.
The charger body is only AC grounded and not the frame.
Also, if you install a AC input receptacle/connector, make sure its is also a
isolated plug, not a self grounding type which would ground to the frame of the
EV. I used a all nylon Danial Woodhead water tight plug and connector, where
the connector is also install into a water tight Power Anderson cast aluminum
housing.
For maximum isolation, the batteries should also be install in a battery box,
that is a non-conducted material. I am using 1/4 inch thick with a acid proof
epoxy coating. I had the local fiber glass company make up 4 foot by 8 foot by
1/4 inch sheets, where I than cut and assembly the boxes my self.
Also, when charging the batteries, they should be disconnected from the control
circuits, either by two safety contactors and/or circuit breaker. I used two
contactors, that turn off by the ignition circuit and/or by a on dash or
console shut down switch use as a backup.
When the charging is done, than the DC output to the batteries is also
disconnected from the batteries. I use a two pole DC contactor.
Test out if you are getting any conductance from any of the batteries terminals
to the frame of the vehicle while the battery charger is off. You will find,
that you should read 0.0 volts at that time.
Turn on the charger, and repeat the test again. As time goes on, after many
charging, you will began to read some voltage conductance from any one of the
battery terminals to the EV frame.
This is cause by some venting of the batteries, which will then cause a
conduction path. It is now time to clean the batteries.
I haven't install a Ground Detection System in my EV yet. This is not a GFI
unit, but is a commercial device that is used to detect if a ground wire, in a
isolated system has ground to frame that should not be ground. These units are
normally made by companies, that provide explosion proof electrical devices
normally for AC systems.
How this Ground Detection System would work in my EV, is that a 4 pole AC
magnetic contactor is install between the isolated input plug/connector and the
onboard battery charger.
When the AC plug is connected to the EV connector, than the AC contactor is
activated and stays on until the plug is disconnected. The 4 pole contactor,
disconnects the 240 volt Line 1 and Line 2, Neutral and ground. It also has a
optional power pole that is in the normally close position, that is use to
disconnect the ignition circuit that is used to start to controller.
If the AC plug is in, you cannot start up.
A plug in glass relay controls the AC coil of this contactor and the coil of
the DC relay is control by a detection circuit that is install from the DC
output of the charger to the frame of the EV. If there is voltage indication
that is above the level that you have selected, than it will shut down the AC
input power.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Chew<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:02 AM
Subject: Isolated vs. Non-isolated Battery Chargers
Hi All,
This has been on my mind for ages.
Firstly, what is the potential safety hazards when using a non-isolated
battery charger like the PFC on a vehicle. PLease don't say you will get
shocked or it is unwise. I want to know details, like can you get shocked in
terms of electrical paths etc.
If this non-isolated battery charger is used on a vehicle whose ground is
tied to the vehicle's chassis. What will happen in terms of safety hazards.
What are the electrical pathways for the possible shock risks to occur.
If this happens to a vehicle with total isolation between the battery pack
and the frame of the vehicle. WHat will happen (i think nothing).
ALso, has anyone on the list used a non-isolated battery charger with;
1. Batteries tied to frame.
2. Batteries not tied to frame.
How do you ground the charger? I don't really see any hazards as such either
way. Probably only when you touch the positive terminal of the battery pack
being charged.
Whatdo the PFC chargers recommend?
Does the US standards state anything about needing to have isolation in
battery chargers?
Cheers...You'll be helping more than myself here.
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> gave
some good advice...
>>>Make sure you use a single string of batteries, as many
>>>S10 conversions (all US Electricars) use a double string
>>>and have trouble with balance between the two strings.
I have been thinking about the battery regulators,
and wondering - would it be possible to make
regulators that would load balance between strings
during discharge?
(and the same question applies to charging)
thinking outside the box (not sure which box in this case)...
You could solve the charging imbalance with 2 chargers
(not cheap, but reliable, I think).
Could you solve it with 2 controllers also?
(I understand there's a method of using 2 controllers
together...but what if they used separate traction packs?)
...or could you design a controller for dual
traction packs? (I run computers that have 3 power supplies;
if we were paranoid, they would use seperate UPS's)
All the above has nothing to do with me right now,
as the Saturn won't hold 2 strings...
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
Is there something funny about pulse width modulating a higher voltage down
to a lower one that would cause the volts out of a controller to be bigger
than the volts in? I noticed on my Zilla today, spewing DAQ4, that the
The DAQ values are not averaged and are subject to a lot of noise. You
can see this on the plots we made during some of White Zombie's runs:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/plots.php
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 21 Jun 2006 at 8:08, nikki wrote:
> LEDs tend to last longer and of course have a lower power drain on a
> system than a conventional bulb. They're also a lot brighter.
We have this discussion here from time to time. LEDs appear bright because
of the way they concentrate the light and because of the purity of the
wavelength in the colored LEDs. They are outstanding for indicators such as
tail / stop / turn on vehicles. They have a reputation of high efficiency,
which makes EVers sit up and take notice.
However, I see three problems with LEDs for lighting, particularly for
headlights. I am not an engineer but the following is my understanding of
the problems, amenable to correction by those who are engineers familiar
with LED design.
1. They aren't yet very good for >illuminating< things (the basic job of the
headlights). A single unit doesn't produce many lumens, and multiple units
are a challenge to combine with optics to produce the beam patterns required
in headlights.
2. High output (hundreds of lumens) white LED arrays are just now beginning
to approach the efficiency of fluorescent lamps, and the best in this
respect are still engineering samples. Many inexpensive high output white
LEDs barely exceed halogen incandescents in efficiency. (The reason that
they perform well in flashlights is that they respond better than
incandescents to declining battery voltage.)
3. They are still very expensive compared to incandescents.
For very dim lights, LEDs are just about unbeatable because low output
incandescents are horribly inefficient. They are also outstanding for
signaling and indicators when properly mounted. Lifespan is a very
substantial advantage, too. But because of the above concerns, I think it
will be a few more years before they find really wide application in vehicle
headlights. (It'll be interesting to see whether >EVs< find wide
application by then. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I just ripped out the daytime running relay.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Potter
Sent: June 20, 2006 5:34 PM
To: 'EV List'
Subject: Daytime lights requirement?
I just learned today that in order to register my imported-from-USA truck in
Ontario I will need to have it "upgraded" to run with lights on at all
times. SYMBOL 76 \f "Wingdings" \s 12
I expect this is one of the first things I'll want to un-do as I convert to
electric drive. Has anyone had any experience with this requirement?
Best to install a manual switch as an over ride to save on amps?
Steven Potter
'98 Ranger / Toronto
HYPERLINK "mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
There is an ENORMOUS amount of discussion about this issue in the archives.
Please visit them. The three major archives are listed on
http://www.evdl.org/help/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- Begin Message ---
One of the episodes of the TV show "Beyond Tomorrow" that focus on Japan has
a 5-7 minute segment on the Eliica (the episode also had a Bullet Train
segment). The show lacks more detailed technical information but shows the
Eliica in a number of driving and test track situations, as well as drag
situations. It came across as quite an impressive concept.
-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this one?
Here is an article. This car and information are extremely old. This article
is from 2004.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/motoringpreviews/51690/eliica_eightwheeler
.html I
haven't heard anything since. It is very easy to claim a top speed but much
harder to actually do it and have it documented.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVRIDER" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone else seen this one?
>I didn't find the article.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> ________________________
>> 230mph Electric Car
>> Posted by michael on Sun Nov 21, '04 10:02 PM
>>
>> An anonymous reader writes "It ain't cheap, but Hiroshi Shimizu has
> finally shown off his latest electric car 'Eliica'. It accelerates
> faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo, and will cruise for 200 miles on a
> one hour charge. Stories at drive.com.au, and an image video and tech
> video. Interestingly, Shimizu believes that the Japanese motor
> industry is deliberately ignoring his invention and instead focusing
> on complex hybrids, as a simple electric engine dramatically lowers
> the cost of manufacturing, and will lead to a flood of cheap, mass
> produced cars from Chinese factories." A UK auto site has a story as
> well, including a test drive.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Anyone else seen this one?
>>
>> -EVRIDER
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006
>
>
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.1/369 - Release Date: 6/19/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/21/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 21 Jun 2006 at 8:08, nikki wrote:
> LEDs tend to last longer and of course have a lower power drain on a
> system than a conventional bulb. They're also a lot brighter.
We have this discussion here from time to time. LEDs appear bright because
of the way they concentrate the light and because of the purity of the
wavelength in the colored LEDs. They are outstanding for indicators such as
tail / stop / turn on vehicles. They have a reputation of high efficiency,
which makes EVers sit up and take notice.
However, I see three problems with LEDs for lighting, particularly for
headlights. I am not an engineer but the following is my understanding of
the problems, amenable to correction by those who are engineers familiar
with LED design.
1. They aren't yet very good for >illuminating< things (the basic job of the
headlights). A single unit doesn't produce many lumens, and multiple units
are a challenge to combine with optics to produce the beam patterns required
in headlights.
A production Audi A8 6.0 already features LED headlights by Lumileds
in low beam and i believe i saw a recent Toyota announcement about
LEDs in headlights in 2006 Lexus too.
So expensive, yes, impossible, no.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael
I was thinking about your project , and the two paths you could go down ,
orbitals or golf cart batteries ( yes there are others but these are the two
most travel) . I have 2 ev pick ups that I drive right
now , one with 40 golf cart batteries in two strings of 120v 156v 1k zilla
9" net gain motor, the other
with 23 12v orbitals 11' net gain and at one time a 300v 2k zilla ( now a 1k
as I sold the 2k controller and am waiting of another) . The two trucks are
as different as night and day .
The race truck with the 23 orbitals , a Mitsubishi might max , is light and
quick , when I've got a short trip around town , I usually pick this one ,
being so light it feels very snappy , the brakes feel very safe and it
corners very will , once a
month ( when I had my 2k zill ) I take it to our local auto cross and
race it there . When people come by to check out what ev's are all about I
almost always that them for a ride with this one . I've driven it 30 miles
on one charge
but did that at about 40 45 mph . I've had this truck together for about 6
months , and have had no end of fun showing it off.
My Mazda 2200b is my work truck , Its the EV I take when ever I'm
going
over 30 miles . I drove it 117 miles in my last electric car rally in the 3
hour long distance competition we had ( Charles Whalen took first place ,
doing 140 miles ) . I do a 70 mile trip about once a month where I drive on
the interstate 95 at 60 mph , I also use this truck to pull my lawn trail
and charge my lawn mower, with the mower most days using more power that the
truck. before going to 40 batteries I
had 25 in on string , this had fair pick up , even though I had the
controller turned
down to 500 battery amps to save my batteries , My reason for going with
the 40 batteries in 2 120 strings was so I could charge my new 96v electric
lawn mower for the truck by plugging the two packs ( mower and truck pack)
together and dump charging the mower ( mower starts it charge at around 200
amp , and charged in 10 mins).
More pro's and con's
Watering the batteries is not really a big problem , with a pick up they are
easy to get to , and its the weight the gives you the distance. Getting the
weight up with orbitals ( Hawkers or Optima's , ) just takes allot of them
, 29 is still not as much weight as 20 golf cart batteries . With 30 golf
cart batteries your voltage would be up enough that the amp draw on them
would be low , the pickup would be better that a 4 cylinder and a 30 miles
trip would probable still leave you with 1/4 to 1/2 charge left over (
depending on your driving) ..
Well now that I've made it perfectly clear what batteries are best :-)
the good new is that what ever you pick your going to be happy . How about a
little more info on your driving needs .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: S10 Conversion
All -
I am located in Huntsville, AL and am working with Steve Clunn and another
local expert on converting my first EV, which will be a Chevy S10. Seems
like the battery discussion is running toward Hawkers or Optimas, esp.
since I would prefer to avoid the maintenance aspect of the floodeds.
Couple of questions:
- What type of Hawker Batteries are recommended for an EV, so I can price
them out.
- Same question for the Optimas.
- What kind of acceleration can I expect? I realize it will not be neck
breaking, but there seems to be little info on this subject.....seems like
some straight forward physics and math would provide a
ballpark....obviously, there must be more to it than that!
Any questions or suggestions would be welcome. We are in the process of
purchasing a Zilla controller and a Warp 9 motor for the conversion.
I primarily wanted to initiate a post on the list so you would know that
there will soon be 1 more EV on the road. Of course, I would also imagine
that I will be needing your help one day soon!
Thx, Michael Mohlere
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> So what are some options? I have a TS Li-ion pack. Could I just charge
> it to 80% each week night, capture the downhill regen each morning,
With lead-acids, you don't want to leave them in a partially discharged
state for long periods. But as far as I know, lithiums don't mind. So,
it should work fine to only charge them to 80% so you can regen down the
hill on your way to work.
> then do a full 100% equalization charge on the weekend?
You don't equalize lithiums by overcharging. You do it by individually
charging each cell to the same endpoint conditions. You can do this at
the 80% point as well as 100%.
In other words, instead of charging to 100% at 4.2v/cell, charge each to
(say) 4.0v/cell. It will take some experimentation to find the correct
endpoint voltage for 80% state of charge.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> You don't equalize lithiums
Yes, I meant "balance", not "equalize". Mea culpa.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not meaning to nag, but where do we stand on ordering the parts (zilla, warp
9, etc...)
Mike
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: S10 Conversion
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:40:29 -0400
Hi Michael
I was thinking about your project , and the two paths you could go down
,
orbitals or golf cart batteries ( yes there are others but these are the
two most travel) . I have 2 ev pick ups that I drive right
now , one with 40 golf cart batteries in two strings of 120v 156v 1k zilla
9" net gain motor, the other
with 23 12v orbitals 11' net gain and at one time a 300v 2k zilla ( now a
1k
as I sold the 2k controller and am waiting of another) . The two trucks are
as different as night and day .
The race truck with the 23 orbitals , a Mitsubishi might max , is light
and
quick , when I've got a short trip around town , I usually pick this one ,
being so light it feels very snappy , the brakes feel very safe and it
corners very will , once a
month ( when I had my 2k zill ) I take it to our local auto cross and
race it there . When people come by to check out what ev's are all about I
almost always that them for a ride with this one . I've driven it 30 miles
on one charge
but did that at about 40 45 mph . I've had this truck together for about 6
months , and have had no end of fun showing it off.
My Mazda 2200b is my work truck , Its the EV I take when ever I'm
going
over 30 miles . I drove it 117 miles in my last electric car rally in the 3
hour long distance competition we had ( Charles Whalen took first place ,
doing 140 miles ) . I do a 70 mile trip about once a month where I drive
on the interstate 95 at 60 mph , I also use this truck to pull my lawn
trail and charge my lawn mower, with the mower most days using more power
that the truck. before going to 40 batteries I
had 25 in on string , this had fair pick up , even though I had the
controller turned
down to 500 battery amps to save my batteries , My reason for going with
the 40 batteries in 2 120 strings was so I could charge my new 96v electric
lawn mower for the truck by plugging the two packs ( mower and truck pack)
together and dump charging the mower ( mower starts it charge at around 200
amp , and charged in 10 mins).
More pro's and con's
Watering the batteries is not really a big problem , with a pick up they
are easy to get to , and its the weight the gives you the distance. Getting
the weight up with orbitals ( Hawkers or Optima's , ) just takes allot of
them , 29 is still not as much weight as 20 golf cart batteries . With 30
golf cart batteries your voltage would be up enough that the amp draw on
them would be low , the pickup would be better that a 4 cylinder and a 30
miles trip would probable still leave you with 1/4 to 1/2 charge left over
( depending on your driving) ..
Well now that I've made it perfectly clear what batteries are best :-)
the good new is that what ever you pick your going to be happy . How about
a little more info on your driving needs .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: S10 Conversion
All -
I am located in Huntsville, AL and am working with Steve Clunn and another
local expert on converting my first EV, which will be a Chevy S10. Seems
like the battery discussion is running toward Hawkers or Optimas, esp.
since I would prefer to avoid the maintenance aspect of the floodeds.
Couple of questions:
- What type of Hawker Batteries are recommended for an EV, so I can price
them out.
- Same question for the Optimas.
- What kind of acceleration can I expect? I realize it will not be neck
breaking, but there seems to be little info on this subject.....seems like
some straight forward physics and math would provide a
ballpark....obviously, there must be more to it than that!
Any questions or suggestions would be welcome. We are in the process of
purchasing a Zilla controller and a Warp 9 motor for the conversion.
I primarily wanted to initiate a post on the list so you would know that
there will soon be 1 more EV on the road. Of course, I would also imagine
that I will be needing your help one day soon!
Thx, Michael Mohlere
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I've completed a grand total of 50 EV miles. After a couple of days going
around the block and troubleshooting I finally hauled all the junk out of the
back of the truck and got a chance to drive around town without hundreds of
pounds of extra dead weight (the old 96 volt Lester charger I inherited with
the car is **heavy**!) For the lurkers, lookers and thinkers who haven't
taken the plunge yet, I thought I'd post what I found to be
interesting/different and advisible now that I'm newly on the road. First,
I'll note that I followed the advice of several people on this list and
acquired an existing EV (although one which had not been running for several
years) and used that as my starting point. The '76 Courier compact pickup had
a Prestolite 4001 motor, 96 volts of (dead) floodies and an (ailing) old Curtis
controller. Over the course of six month's worth of weekends (when it was warm
enough and not raining) I yanked the bats and the controller and installed a
Z1K and 156 volts of UB1211000 AGM batteries, which I'm filling up with a
homemade bad boy charger. There were a lot of peripheral items I upgraded,
too, to accommodate the higher voltage: contactor, circuit breakers, fuse,
gauges, etc. The motor seems fine, and I was able to reuse the original potbox
and reworked the motor blower; other than that it's pretty much all new on the
front end. Since the truck was free, the bulk of my expenditures were for the
Zilla (with an excellent EVSource cooling system) and the new battery pack.
Other than that I figure I'm about $4-500 out of pocket for cable, connectors,
breakers, contactor, gauges, parts for the bad boy, etc., not counting the
(badly needed) paint job, which was bartered. (And yes, I'll get some pics on
the EV Album soon.)
So once I hit the road, this is what I found:
1. Brakes! I had no idea how much effect engine drag has on slowing down in
an ICE car, even with an automatic. The Presto just spins merrily along when I
WANT TO SLOW DOWN!!! I've got non-power drum brakes all around and I'm
standin' on those puppies to make it stop. Too many stops in a short period of
time and I start to smell the aroma of too-hot brake shoes. I would really
like some regen to take some of the stress off the brakes. (Unfortunately, the
Presto has no tailshaft, so I'm mulling my options here.) In the meantime,
anticipating traffic conditions ahead to minimize braking seems like a good
idea.
2. Acceleration is, well, different. The torque curve doesn't have that ICE
ramp-up and fall-off feeling I'm used to and subconsciously waiting for.
Instead the first surge is as strong as it gets, but it stays that strong until
you run out of RPM room. This will take some getting used to.
3. Sound. It's not silent, although it is quiet. I've got a blower pushing
air through the Presto and a pump circulating the fluid through the Zilla, so
there's always something going on. But on acceleration there's an
unmistakeable electric "subway train" sound to it. I like that.
4. Handling. I need **more** weight in the front (where the Courier is now
lighter than stock.) The rear isn't too heavy, since I've crowded the 13 AGM's
as close to the front of the truck bed as possible, and I should be well below
the GVWR (I'm going to go to a public scale and weigh it, just to have a data
point.). But it rides high in the front. And it rides like a truck. A 30
year old truck. I guess that makes sense...
5. It gets smoother and stronger every day. The "stronger" part, I'm told,
is the batteries getting better as they go through a few charge/discharge
cycles. I think the "smoother" part is just the various parts which sat,
unmoving for so many years, getting the kinks out, as it were.
6. It's fun. I know all the guys in the cool new sports cars and SUV's
think I'm nuts - but I wouldn't trade (which is good, because I suspect they
wouldn't either.)
7. One downside of a conversion is that you have to fix (or you'll want to
improve) a lot of non-engine related stuff along with the rest of the project.
I had to replace a leaking brake cylinder and rear view mirror; I put new
carpeting in, and I'm looking at some serious interior work to make it more
hospitable. That's fun for me; but other people might not thinks so.
8. READ THIS LIST!! I can't think of another single thing which was more
helpful to me, in terms of getting started, pulling the trigger, making
decisions along the way, not losing heart, and being constantly reinvigorated,
than the EV list.
Now I've got a lot of new questions for the EV veterans and experts here, but
they'll wait for another day.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus theres much
more to come.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
I find this very interesting :)
I see what you mean but...
Here in the UK several car makers have started to use LEDs as
standard on new built cars, and there has also been an increase
lately in specialist LED lightbulbs being made.
One such site is here: http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm
Like you, I'm not an EE, but I'd be interested to see what an
electrical engineer thinks about these.
Since they're potentially going to assist in the lowering of current
drain on an EV long may the debate continue perhaps???
;)
Looking forward to learning and discussing these further!
Nikki
On 21 Jun 2006, at 15:36, David Roden wrote:
On 21 Jun 2006 at 8:08, nikki wrote:
LEDs tend to last longer and of course have a lower power drain on a
system than a conventional bulb. They're also a lot brighter.
We have this discussion here from time to time. LEDs appear bright
because
of the way they concentrate the light and because of the purity of the
wavelength in the colored LEDs. They are outstanding for
indicators such as
tail / stop / turn on vehicles. They have a reputation of high
efficiency,
which makes EVers sit up and take notice.
However, I see three problems with LEDs for lighting, particularly for
headlights. I am not an engineer but the following is my
understanding of
the problems, amenable to correction by those who are engineers
familiar
with LED design.
1. They aren't yet very good for >illuminating< things (the basic
job of the
headlights). A single unit doesn't produce many lumens, and
multiple units
are a challenge to combine with optics to produce the beam patterns
required
in headlights.
2. High output (hundreds of lumens) white LED arrays are just now
beginning
to approach the efficiency of fluorescent lamps, and the best in this
respect are still engineering samples. Many inexpensive high
output white
LEDs barely exceed halogen incandescents in efficiency. (The
reason that
they perform well in flashlights is that they respond better than
incandescents to declining battery voltage.)
3. They are still very expensive compared to incandescents.
For very dim lights, LEDs are just about unbeatable because low output
incandescents are horribly inefficient. They are also outstanding for
signaling and indicators when properly mounted. Lifespan is a very
substantial advantage, too. But because of the above concerns, I
think it
will be a few more years before they find really wide application
in vehicle
headlights. (It'll be interesting to see whether >EVs< find wide
application by then. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Robert:
We had that threat about a year ago. It is my opinion, that an isolated
charger has some benefits, especially if you have a truck full of
floodies.
I was zapped once because of some leakage with my first EV and, while I
try to keep leakage under control, it is hard to get rid of. I looked at
all available chargers and finally settled for an (isolated) Zivan. I
would have liked to buy a PFC because it has many features (I think it
could be the perfect EV charger), but, I personally like it isolated.
Just my two cents.
Michaela
> Hi All,
>
> This has been on my mind for ages.
>
> Firstly, what is the potential safety hazards when using a non-isolated
> battery charger like the PFC on a vehicle. PLease don't say you will get
> shocked or it is unwise. I want to know details, like can you get shocked
> in
> terms of electrical paths etc.
>
> If this non-isolated battery charger is used on a vehicle whose ground is
> tied to the vehicle's chassis. What will happen in terms of safety
> hazards.
> What are the electrical pathways for the possible shock risks to occur.
>
> If this happens to a vehicle with total isolation between the battery pack
> and the frame of the vehicle. WHat will happen (i think nothing).
>
> ALso, has anyone on the list used a non-isolated battery charger with;
>
> 1. Batteries tied to frame.
> 2. Batteries not tied to frame.
>
> How do you ground the charger? I don't really see any hazards as such
> either
> way. Probably only when you touch the positive terminal of the battery
> pack
> being charged.
>
> Whatdo the PFC chargers recommend?
>
> Does the US standards state anything about needing to have isolation in
> battery chargers?
>
> Cheers...You'll be helping more than myself here.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be the one of the first to try the NEW Windows Live Mail.
> http://ideas.live.com/programPage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-4911fb2b2e6d
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sounds like you need a variac charger of some form - either a 10A variac or
>
> These type of chargers are generally built based on things you "find",
> rather than buying everything needed. A variac from a 'hamfest' or if luck
> has it a second-hand shop, an industrial 'junk dealer' (where my 240VAC 30A
Thanks James,
But I am unfortunately one of those people that (although I don't have alot of
money) has more money than time. I really don't have the time to go 'scrounging
around' hamfests, surplus houses, junk dealers, etc. even if I knew where to
find them. (Which would take even more time to find. ;-)
Although I may end up spending a bit more money I would like to just order the
parts from some online place and then build it in a couple (few?) evenings.
I have tried quite a bit of searching and I find lots of different power supply
and charger circuits and all of them are just not quite what I'm looking for. I
know just enough to be dangerous so I need a little something a little more
'kit like'. Like the old Heath Kit sort of thing.
Regards,
Chet
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am new to the EV ranks. I decided to jump in with both feet about 6
months ago. I then joined this list about 3 months ago and I have been
reading the email since then. I finally decided that I was at a point
that I could start understanding what was going on and maybe even ask a
few questions myself.
History:
I purchased a 1991 Dodge Dakota pickup with a blown 4 cylinder engine, 5
speed transmission, last month and start removing all of the ICE stuff.
I just ordered a Warp 9" motor and a Curtis 1231C controller this past
Monday. I am planning on a 120 volt system at this point. I am still
trying to decide whether to go with 6 volt or 12 volt batteries,
probable go with the 6 volt lead acid golf cart type. I have not been
able to find anyone with an adapter kit for my truck so I am in
discussions with two local machine shops to see if they can build a set
for me. I also am taking an EV class at one of our local community
colleges. I have learned a lot from this class. We are actually
converting a Dodge D50 pickup from ICE to electric in the class. I have
worked on cars and raced cars for most of my adult life so I am planning
on doing most of my conversion. Several of my friends have volunteered
to help with the project. One is a mechanic and the other one used to
work in a machine shop. I am not looking for speed or to break any
records, I am just tired of giving my money to OPEC. My overall plans
for my truck are to drive to work (32 miles one way) and maybe around
town some. I am trying to set up some charging while at work.
I am open to any and all suggestions or advise but like so many others,
I am limited by my budget.
Thanks,
Fred Hartsell
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>It will take some experimentation to find the correct endpoint voltage for
>80% state of charge.
Is my understanding correct that the SOC will vary based on charging
current? For example, if a cell has an internal resistance of 5 mOhm and
I'm charging at 30A and the charging is cut off when the cell reaches 4.25V,
then will the cell be at around 4.1V OCV when the charger is turned off?
Whereas when charging at 20A, the cell would be at closer to 4.15V OCV when
the charger was turned off?
I'm talking about before any balancing is done.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nikki wrote:
Hi David,
I find this very interesting :)
I see what you mean but...
Here in the UK several car makers have started to use LEDs as standard
on new built cars, and there has also been an increase lately in
specialist LED lightbulbs being made.
One such site is here: http://www.norbsa02.freeuk.com/goffyleds.htm
Like you, I'm not an EE, but I'd be interested to see what an
electrical engineer thinks about these.
Since they're potentially going to assist in the lowering of current
drain on an EV long may the debate continue perhaps???
;)
Looking forward to learning and discussing these further!
Nikki
Daytime running lamps are typically much dimmer/lower power then even
low beam headlights. One way is to run the low beam at partial power
(usually at 60%, many US domestics do this), another way is to have a
smaller halogen or incandescent (or even LED) bulb just off to the side
of the headlamp bulb (popular in many European cars). There are many
after-market kits for implementing both of these solutions on older
cars. The idea is *not* to run your headlights 24/7 and blow them out
all the time.
Simply wiring the low beams full ON all the time is an easy and common,
yet overkill method of satisfying the new legal requirements. This is an
easy and cheap way to implement daytime running lamps on older cars
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBrowse/c-10101/s-10101/p-100000164655/mediaCode-ZX/appId-100000164655/Pr-p_CATENTRY_ID:100000164655
I have heard that in Canada though, you have to run with full low beams
*and* all other lights on. Is this true?
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For all you material science type of people out there, I was curious. Is
there a difference between the type of copper used in the different types of
wires and cables, (such as house wire and stranded hook-up wire) bus-bars,
copper pipes, the big grounding rods, copper from a metal shop, scrap
copper, etc. Will each of these have differing amounts of resistance? Are
there potential problems with creating my own bus bars from a metal shop
that sells copper?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Ang wrote:
>
> On the Monster Garage show, they used a 2-speed Powerglide transmission.
> After some research, I found out that this transmission could be set up to
> 1:1 for high and 2.11:1 for low (
> http://www.tciauto.com/tech_info/gear_ratios.htm).
>
> This looks like a perfect solution for EV's as I always used only the 2nd
> and the 4th gears on my 5-speed conversion. But, I could find only a few
> discussion on the archive. What am I missing? I don't know how much one of
> these cost, but parallel/series switching is not cheap either.
Yes, I always thought a Powerglide could be a good option, especially if
you could adapt a locking torque converter to one. These are very
simple, light, yet strong transmissions.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
For those interested, I have the STM5-180 (similar golf cart replacement
Ni-Cad) technical specs, charging algorithm, tech manual if anyone needs it in
PDF form. It has some good info on automatic watering, gasing and charging
profile. The ni-cads are 80% efficient (more gassing) than lead acids 90%
efficient and require watering every 2 weefs for 2 cycles a day vs every 2
months for 2 cycles a day of flooded lead acids. Good thing they have an auto
watering system.
Best Regards,
Mark
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starting at 1¢/min.
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