EV Digest 5602
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) batteries in S-10 box
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: bender...and cutting
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) bender...and cutting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Need Help Quick on EV Poster
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Used and Surplus Motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: GTech Pro Meter- will it pick up EV rpm?
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Jim Husted did something to my motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Need Help Quick on EV Poster
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Buss bars
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: front-wheel drive generic conversion question
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Valence Technology Batteries
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: bender...and cutting
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: front-wheel drive generic conversion question
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Colorado alternative fuel income tax credit woes, was: RE: mini
monster garage
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: front-wheel drive generic conversion question
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: need Curtis 1221R manual
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Jim Husted did something to my motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
No it is not...
I have a US Electric S-10 that I got minus all the AC stuff, but it had the
alum battery box (that goes between the rails under the bed) with it. The front
part of the bat box that goes under the cab was cut off, but in any case it is
too short in height to fit a Trojan size 6 volt.
In the part that goes between the rails, I can only fit 5 Trojan sized 6 volts
in each side, making a total of 10 in the box. So only 60 vdc. There is a lot
of wasted space in the box in the length and a little in the width, but the
distance between the body rails and the drive shaft will not permit any more to
be in the space.
The rest of my batteries, 20 of them, 120 vdc, will sit in a specially
constructed box that sits on supports across the frame rails. I have done away
with the bed and will construct an aerodynamic cover.
hth,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
> BTW ? for you. If I was to buy a US Electricar S10, minus the controler,
> is the box' big enought to hold 144V worth of batterys ( 6 Volt) ??
>
> Ol_Joe in Cincy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You would be amazed at what you can cut with a hack saw and a little
persistance. I have cut through metal that size by hand plenty of times.
It should only take you 5 to 10 minutes.
From: Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: bender...and cutting
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:58:25 -0400 (EDT)
Speaking of working with thick metal,
how do you cut it? I have this great
scrap that's perfect except for some
tabs that need to be cut off.
The stuff is 1/4" x 2.5"
Clearly, HF reciprocating saw and HF blades
is not the way to go. Do I need a
bigger saw or a better blade?
or BOTH?
(or a case of HF blades :-)
(I got a better blade, but it is captive
in my ICE car which needs an $800 gasket.
I told my wife, the EV won't need that :=)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
acuracy decreasing ----------->
Laser, waterjet, plasma
thickness capability decreasing ------>
waterjet, plasma, laser
Cost decreasing
laser, waterjet,plasma ; plasma and waterjet are close, a single cut
about the same, mostly setup, a lot of cuts plasma has less consumable cost.
Wet diamond blade for soft metals.
Dry cutoff blade for harder matals.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was contacted by the planners for the Alaska Renewable Energy Fair to review
and make recommendations for their poster highlighting EV's. They are making
one for each type of alternatively powered vehicles. The EV poster seems
ho-hum. Except for the picture of my truck its not very informative and may be
counter productive. Does anyone have, or has anyone seen a good "one size fits
all" poster advertising Electric Vehicles. I'm working on some good "one
liners" to highlight all the important aspects and will proactively re-design
the poster and present it back to them for review. I think they plan to use
high quality printing and mounting to rigid posterboard for their display. So
good pics, and good statistical one liners would be helpful. I will build a
poster myself to recommend to them but if someone has already done an excellent
one I would like to borrow it for the show.
Thanks for any input.
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peanut wrote:
Mine's a Prestolite 4002 MKH - series wound, 36V. Jim Husted gave me
these specs:
> >Actually thats MKH-4002 8^ P
----------------------------------------------------------
7 1/8 frame size. 36 volt OEM. CCWDE. 8 brushes, 4 pole.
Prestolite test specs.
VOLTS AMPS RPM TORQUE Ft. Lbs.
36 19 3250 Min. 0
36 175 1880 to 2100 17.5
It takes
MKH 2006S armature
MGP 1012S Brushes
MKH 3005AS field coils
And was manufactured for Tennant.
----------------------------------------------------------
I paid $100 for mine and was quite happy. The one I got has a tailshaft
and came with QD-bushing pulleys on both ends, though.
> You have to be careful judging a book by it's cover. Mighty Tim and Tiny
Tim for example look identical! Ask Shawn and Matt how big of a differance
there was running them, hehe.
There is a chance that this current ebay motor is a MKH style of motor but I
would almost put money down that it's not. There are literally dozens and
dozens (if not hundreds) of differently wound gut's that will fit inside that
frame.
In fact this would be a great light wieght low cost motor for someone. I'd
be really surprised (being a pump motor) if it was a sep-ex motor. There are
going to be two things to over come on this motor. The first being the shaft,
and the second being the rotation of the motor. Both are fairly easy to
remedy.
BTW the pics not great but from what I can see of the brush leads they look
un-abused and the brushes appear to have decent length left. I decided long
ago to not bid on the ebay motor posted here and would rather see them go to
you all, so someone ought to nab this puppy up.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jay,
I use the Gtech Pro on Joule Injected. That's what I used to derive torque
shown in the graph on my Dragtimes.com timeslip record. I had no luck using
their RPM input method (at least on the Nissan). However, I always thought
there'd be a clever/simple way to somehow use the signal from the Zolox RPM
sensor or out of the Hairball Tach output. I suppose hooking up a 'scope to
a regular old ICE's cigarette lighter would be a good start for figuring out
what kind of noise they're looking for. It did work on my Honda Accord,
after all.
I just determined motor RPM by taking their output file and converting the
mph values by using my gear ratio and tire circumference, then calculating
torque. Not super accurate, but close enough for me.
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: GTech Pro Meter- will it pick up EV rpm?
Any GTech users out there? The factory claims no EV experience. The meter
is designed to work off of alternator noise, so they surmised that a big EV
motor would put out similar noise, but since that is isolated from the 12V
system, I wonder... The meter is apparently not compatible with a standard
magnetic tach sensor.
No EV experience....?! Would one of you noteworthies would like some help
hustling a new sponsor?
-Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have the papers around here somewhere in a file. I will have to dig them
out and get them scanned for you. It may take a few days.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: need Curtis 1221R manual
Hi all,
Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the
1221B/C)
- Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
Here the whole story:
I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
(I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was converted to
electric in Germany in 1996.
It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.) with a Curtis
1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I managed to get
some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc
converters
and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I got a nice EV
grin.
Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't work and the
standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster). I see that I
have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break peddle and also see
that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT mounted right with
the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this is to reverse
the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence I tried to find
a
manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all I saw was an
old
mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also looking for such a
manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't have anything
anymore about this old controller.
Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably in electronic
form as I am now located in Europe.
Thanks a bunch
Markus
1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod
You're a funny guy, lmao!!
When I saw this come up I thought "He's got to be yanking my chain" but at
the same time anxious for it to load up, hehehe!
Now being that I know you have a speed sensor available to you, tell me it's
installed?!? Yeah I can see you pumping 1800 amps into it oblivious to the
RPM's cause you ain't moving, lmao.
Now it's come to my attention here of late that you guys seem to just hate it
when your motors don't fail. I've begun to have nightmares of all you motor
killing bastards (yeah you know who you are!) getting together behind my back
ploting out new ways to hurt my motors! Don't get me started cause I could
think of multiple examples, lol. You just remember Rod, I gave you an 1/8th
inch so don't try and take a foot, hehe.
Anyway thanks for the kind words and they are good to see as I've been
meaning to give you a jingle but have been busy. I'm busting butt right now in
hopes of attending this Fridays race (not looking good at the moment)(I just
got a good load from Portland)(end of month, lmao). The thought of Tim also
not being there to control Wayland (after his blood lust begins) is truely
frightening! SO if it help, Yeah you guys freak me out enough as it is without
your sick humored emails 8^ )
I guess thats why I like you guys though, you're like my EV rollercoaster
giving me that excited, nervous, want to throw-up kinda feeling, 8^ P
Cya
Jim husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I recently had Jim Husted do a com
for me and an experimental brush
rigging set up. I have only had the motor back in "Gone Postal" for a very
short time. It hasn't even been to the track yet but today I had to take the
motor back out. The only person I can think of to blame for my troubles is
Jim Husted. Everything was fine until he worked on my motor.
We are running a Centerforce clutch and pressure plate with a Corrado G60
flywheel. We have never had any trouble with it whatsoever. We have raced
it, we have run front drive only and rear drive only. We have even submitted
it to the Madman's foot.and still no problems. Now when I nail it up to 1800
amps on the front motor the clutch whirs right up without much acceleration.
We pulled the motor and sure enough, the smell was not the brushes but the
clutch material burning. We checked and the clutch linkage is fine. Yep,
it's all Jim's fault for giving me too much torque :-) We have found a
solution. Now to get the big bucks for a full on racing pressure plate and a
three puck disc from Clutch Net, www.clutchnet.com
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
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---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike & Paula
Here is some one liners deride from the following logid:
A EV is a voltage machine so from EMF:
Electro Motive Force
A EV provides a magnetic force field so from MAD:
Magnetic Air Drive System
or
Electro Magnetic Force ( plan to use a vinyl label on the rear of my EV)
On the front of the EV, it will say
The Force is Upon You.
Roland
I plane to make a vinyle lable
----- Original Message -----
From: MIKE & PAULA WILLMON<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: Need Help Quick on EV Poster
I was contacted by the planners for the Alaska Renewable Energy Fair to
review and make recommendations for their poster highlighting EV's. They are
making one for each type of alternatively powered vehicles. The EV poster
seems ho-hum. Except for the picture of my truck its not very informative and
may be counter productive. Does anyone have, or has anyone seen a good "one
size fits all" poster advertising Electric Vehicles. I'm working on some good
"one liners" to highlight all the important aspects and will proactively
re-design the poster and present it back to them for review. I think they plan
to use high quality printing and mounting to rigid posterboard for their
display. So good pics, and good statistical one liners would be helpful. I
will build a poster myself to recommend to them but if someone has already done
an excellent one I would like to borrow it for the show.
Thanks for any input.
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am trying to put the zilla, dc-dc converter, pump, tank, fuse, shunt
and main contactor inside a 25 x 8 x 10 box.
I have found that the darn battery cables between the zilla, contactor,
shunt, and fuse take up a lot of room. The only way I think I can get
this to work is to use buss bars. So my initial thought was to cut bars
from 1/4 copper plate that offest in the x, y direction to get to the
contactor and shunt. The one to the contactor would be bent to offset in
the Z direction as well. All the components would be mounted to the
aluminum box. and supported mostly vertically. I don't want the road
vibrations to do this all in.
How do I protect the copper?
If I made them out of 1/16 copper, 4 layers, would that minimize
vibration issues while getting the same current flow?
Any Suggestions for close quarters high amperage connections welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
8:17 P.M EDT
Hi Markus,
I'm in Montreal, Canada and have 2 rare (over here) Skoda electric vehicles:
a '93 Favorit hatchback and '94 Favorit covered pickup. They originally had
Czech SCR controllers, 84V with regen but now have 1221R controllers. I
have the paper copy of the manual and could probably scan it. Does your
1221R have 12V control or traction voltage control?
Carlo Markulis in Germany now has 3 of these electric Skodas and has a 1221R
in the one he has owned the longest. Carlo could be a good resource for
you. He also has something like 83,000km on his gel batteries. Contact me
off list if you would like his email address.
Where are you located?
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: need Curtis 1221R manual
Hi all,
Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the
1221B/C)
- Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
Here the whole story:
I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
(I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was converted to
electric in Germany in 1996.
It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.) with a Curtis
1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I managed to get
some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc
converters
and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I got a nice EV
grin.
Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't work and the
standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster). I see that I
have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break peddle and also see
that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT mounted right with
the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this is to reverse
the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence I tried to find
a
manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all I saw was an
old
mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also looking for such a
manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't have anything
anymore about this old controller.
Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably in electronic
form as I am now located in Europe.
Thanks a bunch
Markus
1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:00, Death to All Spammers wrote:
1:1? The direct drives in the EV Album all use a differential, some
with a pretty high ratio.
Most FWD cars use transverse mounted engines, and the transmission
(transaxle, really) lies along, underneath, etc. the engine.
(Generalizationd, here) The differential is contained within the
transaxle, and thus is not readily separable from the transmission.
Plus, in a lot of cases, the transaxle, and sometimes even the engine
itself, are structural members of the front suspension (there's a web
documentation of a Saturn EV conversion where with the engine out, a
support for a transmission half shaft is not present and it took some
reengineering to put it right).
The major departure from this is longitudinally mounted engines for
front drivers. I can only think of 2 off the top of my head, Audi and
Subaru, that's because they both did awd by putting a standard drive
shaft and diff off the tailshaft, while driving half shafts from the
body of the trans for the front wheels - fwd models omitted the tail
shaft take off.
This means the front suspension is fully independent from the
transmission and engine, and set up to drive the front wheels by power
from a shaft. This would mean you could put an independent rear diff in
front (new engineering to mount that, but you could use whatever diff
you wanted), and custom half shafts to drive the wheels. This likely
means the motor is behind the diff pointed to the front of the car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 6/28/06 1:51:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Hey Dennis,
You mentioned the CE will be running at Bakersfield in
the Race of Champions... I went to the tracks web page
and didn't see that race mentioned in the schedule.
I'd like to stop by, say hi and check out the CE.
Bakersfield is'nt too far away... When will you be
racing there?
Thanks,
TiM
'61 Electric Rampsid >>
I will be there oct.12 through 15 along with 1200 other summit racers.The
race of champions is held on sat.night.There are 36 racers Qualified.Looking
foward to meeting EV folks in that area. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I saw on "Beyond Tomorrow" that a European company is building a
car that runs on compressed air. The one they showcased on the channel had
a 100 mile range and took about 20 minutes to fill up again. It used
compressed air in 6 huge tanks under the belly of the car to drive the
motor. It was pretty quiet and definately eco friendly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> how much are those batteries?
I ordered them a long time ago, and paid $17K via
check (very brave :). And now I'm looking at another
$2K for shipping because combining shipments with
other orders didn't work out. Per an earlier post, it
appears that their base price has gone up, but I
believe there are a lot of factors that determine the
price, so you might consider contacting Marc Kohler at
Valence, [EMAIL PROTECTED], who has been very
helpful to me.
>they are a public company on Nasdaq, looks like a
good stock to buy
They just got issued a "going concern" by their
auditors and continue to lose millions of dollars, so
please everybody go buy batteries or stock so I have
somewhere to go if I end up needing to utilize my
warranty :)
>Who else sells Lithium batteries in large capacity
format?
The only others I could find that I could buy as an
individual at the time were Thunder Sky and Kokam, but
Valence has superior thermal stability and cycle life
so I chose them.
Also I believe Stephen Taylor has Valence batteries in
his Force: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/602.html.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I cut heavy metal I use a portable bandsaw at the lowest speed. Mine
is a fastenal unit for $114 bucks. It cuts like butter.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: bender...and cutting
Speaking of working with thick metal,
how do you cut it? I have this great
scrap that's perfect except for some
tabs that need to be cut off.
The stuff is 1/4" x 2.5"
Clearly, HF reciprocating saw and HF blades
is not the way to go. Do I need a
bigger saw or a better blade?
or BOTH?
(or a case of HF blades :-)
(I got a better blade, but it is captive
in my ICE car which needs an $800 gasket.
I told my wife, the EV won't need that :=)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could always just switch to an altrax with regen and get a good running
unit right?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Markus
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: need Curtis 1221R manual
Hi all,
Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the 1221B/C)
- Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
Here the whole story:
I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
(I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was converted to
electric in Germany in 1996.
It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.) with a Curtis
1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I managed to get
some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc converters
and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I got a nice EV
grin.
Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't work and the
standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster). I see that I
have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break peddle and also see
that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT mounted right with
the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this is to reverse
the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence I tried to find a
manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all I saw was an old
mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also looking for such a
manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't have anything
anymore about this old controller.
Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably in electronic
form as I am now located in Europe.
Thanks a bunch
Markus
1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is actually cheaper to get a window unit. I bought a 10,000 btu window
unit for $199 that runs on 115VAC. I will be trying to run it off of an
inverter to see if it runs OK. Startup current is the hardest part to get
to work. If it does, you can bet that I will be installing it in my car.
This unit has auto temp control, remote fan operation, and is pretty quiet
for its size. It only weighs 75 pounds also.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
The "portable" AC units I have seen are 3-port units. That is, it takes
in cooled air from the room, uses it to cool the condenser, and exhausts
it. It's a horrifically inefficient and ineffective cycle because
somewhere the room has to draw in hot outside air to feed it. It can
actually make the room warmer. In a well sealed room, the pressure will
drop slightly and the condenser fan will simply stop moving air and the
unit stops working.
Window units are 4-port systems, which makes a lot more sense. You
might also be able to modify a "portable" unit to be a 4-port.
You need quite a few BTUs to be "adequate". I'm not clear on how many
BTU it takes to equal a normal sedan's system but I think it's something
like 10k BTU.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
>Just get a portable air conditioner and run it off your 12V bus with an AC
>inverter. You will have to take it apart to make it fit in the car but
they
>are more than adequate.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would think that the easiest way to do a front drive direct drive
conversion would be to use a front differential out of a 4WD pickup. I know
the Chevy one uses half shafts and they could be adapted to run the vehicle.
Just cut them to length and weld the Chevy CV knuckle to the honda half
shaft or vise versa for whatever car you wanted. The Chevy diff would allow
you to turn and you could it wouldnt weigh as much as a transmission would.
As for torque a DC motor makes tons of torque off the line so you could
manage it pretty well. If it didnt make enough you could always mount a
chain and sprocket setup off the electric motor to gear it down a little or
change the gear ratio of the pumpkin to give the DC motor a little more
oomph. I would think a chain and sprocket would be cheaper and you could
change it a lot faster.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Sofio
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: front-wheel drive generic conversion question
I don't yet understand how it is current-wise or torque-wise possible to
direct-drive any rear-wheel-drive vehicle via a 1:1 motor-driveshaft
coupling (and using something as small as a 7/8" output shaft??), but given
that there at least a few examples of this, it's obviously workable. So
what about front-wheel drive conversions? A double-shaft,
transverse-mounted motor would be a natural... for those of us who don't
wish to make turns. Is there some standard method of providing some slip in
this configuration so that steering is possible?
Back to direct-drive conversions: I probably haven't been reading the list
for long enough or I'd know, but I would tend to assume that any
direct-drive installation would be shorter-lived and much more
power-consumptive than one that utilizes some form of transmission, since a
transmission would allow the driver to keep the motor operating at closer to
it's peak efficiency RPM, as opposed to starting from zero RPM with a huge
current surge that would quickly take a toll on brushes and copper. What's
the thinking on this?
Dave S
Honolulu
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Garret, Carl, and All,
I had claimed the truck conversion on our '02 taxes for something like an
$8000 credit, which was 85% of the total cost and didn't include the 150
plus hours of labor! As you mentioned below, the credit carries forward for
five years, which is good because they'll only refund what you've paid in.
Also as you mentioned, the credit is 100% of the total conversion cost if a
ten year old or older infernal combustion engine is permanently removed
from state highways. So, our credit could have been more if I had sold the
truck's engine out-of-state (or one of our older ICE buggies), but we would
never pay in and get the $8000 over the five year period anyway. BTW, I
just read that a hi-bride also receives a higher tax credit if an older ICE
is sold out of state. For any Colorado EVDL lurkers our there, check out
"FYI Alternative Fuel Income Tax Credits Income 9" on the Internets at
www.taxcolorado.com.
Under the '02 credit, we had been getting all our state taxes back each
year until last year ('04 return), when the state decided they wanted an
invoice for the truck (BTW, the feds never refunded the $300 for the
wife-unit's Prius last year, but that's another story!). After calling the
state to explain that I didn't have an invoice because I "converted" the
truck myself (and had over 70 receipts), they said to send a letter to some
gal stating this. When I followed up a month later, the state said the gal
never received the letter! I then FAXed it and called them every day until
they verified that someone had received it, and as you mentioned, the hold
time and hang-ups were a royal pain. When I hadn't received a call for a
week I then started hounding them again via phone. The gal I mailed/FAXed
the letter to must have dropped off the face of the earth, as a guy was
finally assigned to the case and gave me a call back! Although he said I
wouldn't need to copy all my receipts, the state did want a detailed list
of costs for the "examiner", which turned into a three page FAX. We finally
got last year's refund, and also this year's without any more hassles. Note
that I put the truck's VIN on my initial return so they could look up the
title on their computer and see that the fuel type is indeed eelectric.
And speaking of the title, it was a freaking nightmare getting it changed
from gas to electric fuel. I eventually had to take it to one of the two
state emissions testing stations in Broomfield, the other being in Fort
Collins. While breaking in a new pack this required two bulk charging stops
each way. This was after driving to the Longmont E-station to pay for a VIN
verification, which includes a box for the fuel type, and having the Nazi
gals at the Peoples Republic of Boulder County Clerk and Recorder in
Longmont say they can't use that form anymore for fuel type changes. Well
thanks for giving me the form and sending me there on a boondoggle... Why
can't a sheriff or highway patrol verify that it's eeelectric?
It seems like the state and federal income tax bean counters should be
going after the people and corporations with cash falling out of their
pockets that cheat on tax returns, instead of picking on people that are
conserving dino juice, but I digress!
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2006 02:17:43 -0400
>
>Carl,
>I filed for the tax credit. They sent me a letter asking for
>documentation. I used a lot of second hand parts so I didn't have
>receipts for everything. I sent them what I had and pictures too. They
>rejected it for lack of documentation. I resubmitted some more
>documentation within 30 days. I haven't heard anything back yet. I
>guess it is time for me to contact them again. The hold time to call
>them is atrocious though. I think email works much quicker, but you get
>less information. I'll let you know if they ever accept it. It is 85%
>if I read the law right, well more that I actually paid in state taxes
>so I would have to carry it forward into following years anyway. They
>were unsure whether I could be reimbursed for any of my build time for
>that matter too.
>Garret
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Behalf Of Carl Clifford
>Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 2:00 PM
>Subject: RE: mini monster garage
>
>Thanks everyone for your responses to my Black and Decker battery idea.
>
>On the surface it would seem to me that a battery designed for
>something as torquey (sp?) as a drill would be a high rate of discharge
>battery, but I guess it is nothing compared to what you need for an EV.
>
> Hey Garret, I'll let you know when I get moving on this. By the way,
>did you take the Colorado Alternative Fuels tax credit on your bike?
>
> also, if anyone knows of a good source for used Club Car components,
>please let me know.
>
> Oh, and wasn't there someone in Denver who had a connection in Optima
>to get blems?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl
> Denver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chrysler Interepid, Saab, VW Quantum & Fox, older Eldorado, Toronado and
Riviera (79-85) are also FWD with longitudinal engine layout. Those old FWD
GM cars had about 400 HP and over 400Ft Lbs of torque.
The major departure from this is longitudinally mounted engines for
front drivers. I can only think of 2 off the top of my head, Audi and
Subaru, that's because they both did awd by putting a standard drive
shaft and diff off the tailshaft, while driving half shafts from the
body of the trans for the front wheels - fwd models omitted the tail
shaft take off.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah, i've gone over a lot of these ideas, to get that kind of range,
they must use very high pressure tanks, which have a safety issue, a
puncture could send the car flying like a balloon with a hole in it.
I considered building a pontoon boat using the pontoons for compressed
air storage to propel the boat directly. not sure anyone would really
care if it worked, and chance of rupture goes up a lot in a boat,
doubled wall the tank, blah blah. btw, my machinist I talked to today
built an electric powered jet boat using two electric gocart motors,
said its fast and runs for hours on a charge. Gotta go check that out.
My most recent idea is using a torsion spring, that seems safe, though I
guess it could drill itself into something if broke loose.
But frankly electric motors seem like the right approach, seperate the
drive motor from the electric power source so new battery/storage
technology can simply swap in, i.e. a torsion spring to power a
generator, or a hydrogen fuel cell, or lithium, or solar panels, or
zydectic drummel rotators.
Jody Dewey wrote:
Actually I saw on "Beyond Tomorrow" that a European company is building a
car that runs on compressed air. The one they showcased on the channel had
a 100 mile range and took about 20 minutes to fill up again. It used
compressed air in 6 huge tanks under the belly of the car to drive the
motor. It was pretty quiet and definately eco friendly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 3:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
given a short trip EV, perhaps a tank of compressed air can replace the
air compressor. A 2000psi divers tank can hold a lot of air.
Refill the tank when you get home as part of the recharge.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These 1221Rs were not a shunt/sepex controllers like certain models of
Alltrax. They ran series wound DC motors, usually Kostovs with interpole
windings to reduce arcing in regen and were usually timed in neutral. I hope
this helps.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: need Curtis 1221R manual
You could always just switch to an altrax with regen and get a good
running
unit right?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Markus
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: need Curtis 1221R manual
Hi all,
Does anybody have a copy of a Curtis 1221R manual (differs from the
1221B/C)
- Curtis doesn't have one anymore?
Here the whole story:
I've just finally bought my first on-road EV
(I've owned two elec-traks for a couple of years).
Its a Tavria (similar to Skoda), a sowjet car body that was converted to
electric in Germany in 1996.
It features a series wound (about 9") DC motor (12kw cont.) with a Curtis
1221R controller and 900 pounds of lead. (The whole car weighs about
2500lbs). Plus a 25A charger and a Diesel cabin heater. I managed to get
some used gel batteries, fixed a few minor issues with the dc-dc
converters
and the aux battery and took it for a spin. It works and I got a nice EV
grin.
Unfortunately, I found that regenerative breaking doesn't work and the
standard breaks are really minimalistic (no break booster). I see that I
have a switch or pot with 3 wires mounted to the break peddle and also see
that there is a large contactor what looks to be a 2PDT mounted right with
the controller. As I cannot reverse the motor I assume this is to reverse
the field current for regen. It doesn't work though. Hence I tried to find
a
manual for the Curtis 1221R. After some looking around all I saw was an
old
mail on this list from 1992 about somebody else also looking for such a
manual/schematic. I called curtis but they claim they don't have anything
anymore about this old controller.
Does anybody happen to have some documentation. Preferably in electronic
form as I am now located in Europe.
Thanks a bunch
Markus
1996 Tavria 84V road-EV
1973 Two GE Elec-Trak E20
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--- Begin Message ---
Maybe the answer is direct drive. I don't see Wayland burnin up no
clutches.......LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Jim Husted did something to my motor
> I recently had Jim Husted do a com for me and an experimental brush
> rigging set up. I have only had the motor back in "Gone Postal" for a very
> short time. It hasn't even been to the track yet but today I had to take
the
> motor back out. The only person I can think of to blame for my troubles is
> Jim Husted. Everything was fine until he worked on my motor.
> We are running a Centerforce clutch and pressure plate with a Corrado
G60
> flywheel. We have never had any trouble with it whatsoever. We have raced
> it, we have run front drive only and rear drive only. We have even
submitted
> it to the Madman's foot.and still no problems. Now when I nail it up to
1800
> amps on the front motor the clutch whirs right up without much
acceleration.
> We pulled the motor and sure enough, the smell was not the brushes but the
> clutch material burning. We checked and the clutch linkage is fine. Yep,
> it's all Jim's fault for giving me too much torque :-) We have found a
> solution. Now to get the big bucks for a full on racing pressure plate and
a
> three puck disc from Clutch Net, www.clutchnet.com
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/377 - Release Date: 6/27/2006
>
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