EV Digest 5614
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dump Charger
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Bad b
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Dump Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Raptor Controller for sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: e-volks
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Jim Husted did something to my motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Dragtimes Vote Where were all the Who's?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 220V kwh meter
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: yet more Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Air conditioning gains
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Dump Charger
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: gang charger
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: yet more Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) TdS Report #48: Demonstration: Honda FCX Fuel Cell Car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) TdS Report #49: Photos - Honda FCX
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Air conditioning gains
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: question about a setup
by Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Dead Battery ?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: gang charger
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Dead Battery ?
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Air conditioning gains
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Dead Battery ?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Dead Battery ?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David , I put together my electric lawn mower about 6 months ago , I mow
lawns to support my EV habit and have used a electric truck for that last 10
years to pull the mower/trailer. The mower has excide 8 orbitals 96v which
when charged comes to about 120v , My truck has 40 golf cart batteries, 2
strings of 120 so the voltages work out about right . I set this up so I
could dump charge for the truck. I sometimes cut 10 yards in a day ,
Dumping 8 time . When I plug the mower into the truck , which I do after
every yard the current goes to around 200 amps , mower is charged in about
10 minutes . The current drops to about 20 amp at the end . Without fast
charging I don't know how well the EV mower would have worked for me. Most
yards take between 10 and 20 ah , so I move 100 to 150 ah through the mower
pack a day . I also have a pfc 50 , which I use to charge the truck from
some of my customers houses while cutting their grass. I also charge the
mower with the pfc 50 when I can but this is very slow :-) , when I'm
pumping juice from a customers house , if I'm not mowing I put it into the
mower, to save the golf cart batteries , I've noticed that after a few
charges the voltage sits higher while using . This whole set up has replaced
a very nasty gas engine that used $1 a yard in gas , lots of air cleaners
and required cleaning all the time , along with only lasting a few years and
costing $1200. . While writing This , my wife turned on the dryer , which
popped the barker ( I know shouldn't be sharing a barker , another thing to
do ) and of course it the @#$ electric car , " I got to dry these close,
don't you charge that thing a night" , I said " sorry , I'm charging the
mower now " "Your mowers electric !" really , can you believe it , 6
months and she never noticed , Took me about 5 years to figure she doesn't
want to here it , I think I'm with the program now , I'd write more
about it but as the 4th is almost here and everybody wants there grass cut ,
. The mower can be seen on www.grassrootsev.com and somday in the ev album
.
Steve Clunn who dosn't know how to spell close ( the one's you wear) and
spell checker won't help
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:57 AM
Subject: Dump Charger
Has anyone used or built a dump charger.
I have heard of EV racers doing this.
I have a 72 volt EV that I drive to work. When I get home I have used
about 30% of power (70% DoD). However from here on, the rate of
discharge goes down exponentially.
I have been thinking about a dump charger that would build up charge
all day and that would recharge the EV quickly when I get home. This
would allow me to run my evening errands and then let both the EV and
dump charger charge overnight.
But I have no idea how to do this or if it is even probable.
Ideas?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> This guy is actually patenting the "bad boy" charger as a new
> invention. Guess you all are gonna owe royalties:
If the patent examiner is on his toes, he'll reject the application for
being obvious or already done. If not, the patent is easy to invalidate
just by showing examples of it being done in public before his filing
date.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Sherritze wrote:
> Has anyone used or built a dump charger.
I've used them occasionally. Others on the list have a lot of experience
with them, too.
> I have a 72 volt EV that I drive to work. When I get home I have used
> about 30% of power (70% DoD). However from here on, the rate of
> discharge goes down exponentially.
That's normal, and the way it should be. You can charge lead-acid
batteries as fast as you want up to 70-80% SOC. Beyond that, you have to
limit the voltage, which means the current tapers down.
> I have been thinking about a dump charger that would build up
> charge all day and that would recharge the EV quickly when I
> get home. This would allow me to run my evening errands and
> then let both the EV and dump charger charge overnight.
Sure, this is feasible. The basic idea is that you only use the high
current dump charger to get the batteries up to 80% SOC quickly. That's
enough for normal driving. Bring the back up to 100% overnight or
whenever you have the time.
> But I have no idea how to do this or if it is even probable.
The dump pack needs to be about 30% higher voltage. With a 72v pack in
your EV, a 96v dump pack is about right. More than 30% is faster, but
you are at risk from excessively high currents and overcharging. Lower,
and the charging current falls off fast and you may not reach 80% SOC on
the pack being charged.
The dump pack usually has at least twice the amphour capacity of the
batteries being charged. For example, a string of 6v 220ah golf cart
batteries charging a string of 12v 50ah batteries. This way, you have
enough capacity to reach full, and aren't deeply discharging the dump
pack, so they last longer.
If there's nothing between the two packs but switches, wires, and
(hopefully) fuses or circuit breakers, you have to STAND RIGHT THERE
throughout the dump charge process, and manually disconnect it at the
end. Things can go very wrong very fast!
It's better to have some kind of automatic controller. Basically, it
needs to do what any charger does -- limit the maximum current to a safe
level for the batteries, wires, and connectors; and limit the maximum
voltage of the batteries being charged.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone work on these if there is a problem? Last I heard they were out of
production and no more factory support.
David Chapman.
Quoting David Sherritze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> While looking on ebay I saw a Raptor 600 DC Controller for sale.
>
> I have no ties to this sale but looks good for someone working on a
> project.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Raptor-600-DC-Motor-
> Controller_W0QQitemZ260002934707QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42924QQssPageNameZWD
> VWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Using the Alltrax ontroller ... in a 4 door geo metro
How do I figure the DoD ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Are you running a controller or the micro-switch set up?
>
> How far discharged (DoD) are you at the 25 mile range?
>
> What type of vehicle are you using the kit in?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of jmygann
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 2:30 PM
> To: Jack Murray
> Subject: Re: e-volks
>
>
>
> At 48 volts ... 45mph top speed
>
> Range up to 25 miles
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack Murray <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > what kind of performance do you get with the motor?
> >
> > jmygann wrote:
> > > I have an e-volks kit ..... If I can be of any assistance let
> me know
> > >
> > > Jimmy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This will plant the front tires better for increased traction. Just my
theory. The proof is in the
> time slip, not the keyboard :-)
>
> Roderick
Hope it works to stop the steering problem. Lets also hope the better plant
doesn't agravate the front end torque abundance problem. I have to say that
over the internet drag racing is a very nifty spectator sport. Straight to
the results. Lots of replay of letting the smoke loose. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just like cell phone minutes. Looks like the votes carry over. Lets keep a
watch on this and vote every day or so. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn M. Waggoner (EVDL)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:06 PM
Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote Where were all the Who's?
> Dude, I think somehow your prayers just got answered...not sure how, but
> take a look: http://www.dragtimes.com/
>
> There it is on the front page, Joule Injected!!!
>
> One very happy,
> Shawn Wagoner
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:16 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Dragtimes Vote Where were all the Who's?
>
> Hey all
>
> You know, I was so hoping, as I'm sure John was, for a real Horton and
the
> Who's moment, with all the Whos casting their "we are here" chant. As of
> this writing Matt received 80 votes. Now you all know me, I steer clear
of
> flame wars, I try to remain middle course and as un-biased as I can. I
> found it surprising that a lot of people I met in Joliet associated me
with
> racing. Actually I'm running 60% daily to 40% race stuff, actually 90%
> forklift 6% and 4%. So the majority of my stuff moves very slow to
average
> speeds. I'm also very open that I'm not even an EV'er yet, but I do get
to
> live vicariously through you guys. So hopefully without pissing anyone
off,
> I wanted to share some thoughts on how I see stuff, that is if anyone's
even
> reading this far 8^ P
>
> I've had the pleasure of being an EVDL member for a year now and feel
very
> much a member of the community here. I wanted to bring to attention that
> sometimes, it seems to me, the door doesn't always swing back. What I
mean
> is, it seems like a lot of racers are there when the call is made to show
> for a green day or like this opening of WKTEC stuff and are always active
> community wise and then low support is sometimes shown back when they may
> need or want it.
>
> I'm really not one to "chaulkboard" but there are those who do, either
way
> it's human nature that if a door only swings one way the door usually
stops
> swinging. It's also human nature to want a pat on the back or maybe EVen
30
> days of fame once in a while 8^ ) One could say that it's a stupid vote,
or
> they aren't into racing, and yes I know it's a holiday weekend, but for
what
> ever reason, support was not given.
>
> I like to think of the race guys as God's green solders. Rod is kind of
> like John the Baptist, eating locusts and hunny, screaming in the
wilderness
> for all to repent, lmao. Wayland, eat's, breathes, and sleeps EV. Matt
and
> I talk often, I consider him a friend and I know how hard he preaches the
EV
> gosspel. Heck he just wrote a program and tossed it out to you guys so he
> does a lot for the community. Now I doubt Matt's heart crushed or
anything
> but as a friend I wanted him to win.
> I guess I just wanted to say that sometimes it is the little things that
> count.
> I guess the only thing left to say is...
> YIP
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> For those to young to know who Horton and the Who's are, kindly
disregard
> this posting 8^ P
> peace!
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
eBay item #330001313345 - looks unenclosed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh wow I'm going to have to look this up.
Well that particular fridge says it uses 48W, though this does not take
into account cycling and no "average watts vs temp" is listed. One page
commenting on it says it uses "only 24 watts". I am unsure if that is a
real figure for a temp or some sort of typo.
This is less efficient than a high end HCFC device. I have a 12v Tundra
fridge that uses the Danfoss compressor which is many times larger. It
uses the same 48W when on but it doesn't cycle on all that much. They
did provide figures somewhere of average power consumption vs temp. But
there's quite a lot of "bias" in that the device's efficiency depends on
how much insulation it has. Make the insulation twice as thick and it
takes about 1/2 the power. The same will not be true of an A/C system
in that the unit itself cannot be made more efficient, though the car
itself can get some benefit from insulating the roof. The gains are
limited because the glass remains the primary source of heating.
I'm trying to find out more about Sterling cooling now. Nice page with
links:
http://www.sunpower.com/lib/sitefiles/pdf/publications/Doc0101.pdf
Suhas, what do you mean "adapt" the Coleman cooler? That thing has only
a tiny amount of cooling capacity. That Coleman device can't be adapted
to be anything but a cooler.
Danny
Suhas Malghan wrote:
It's probably undersized, but I'm really interested in the Stirling
compressor used in this Coleman cooler.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5726
-750&categoryid=8595
It uses only helium gas as the working fluid and sailboat people love
it because it uses so little energy that it can run off of a small
solar panel. I would like to put a/c in my MR2, but using a
conventional system with even the most "environmentally friendly"
refrigerant just seems like a case of less bad rather than more
good. Come fall I'm going to get one of these and figure out how to
adapt it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know, we might be on the wrong track trying to make an electric AC
like a "normal" car AC. Why not try to be something different?
The enormous cooling capacity of the std AC is due to the need to bleed
off the enormous heat of being in the sun and the very poor insulation
conditions while driving. How much of this can be "fixed"?
Back to my camper van. When Sportsmobile made its fiberglass pop-up
roof, they did insulate it. There's also fiberglass in the walls and
nice interior padding.
Even though it's a dark gray, I can tell you that this thing has FAR
less serious heating problems when you leave it in a parking lot in the
summer than any sedan I have been in. The steering wheel ain't gonna
blister you.
Possible ways to reduce the need to extremely high cooling capacity:
1. Insulate roof, walls, maybe even floor
2. Paint it white
3. Tint the windows other than the windshield
4. Automatic or otherwise very convenient shades for all the windows.
5. An exhaust fan to remove the high heat it absorbs being in the sun.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure I had a phone discussion with the pople involved. They were very
ignorant at the time. They had no idea how to get a vehicle registered and
did not know about unsprun weight. The wheel motors weigh 18Kg each. That's
in addition to the wheel and suspension links. That's not going to make for
good ride, roadholding and handling. It's irrelevant anyway, since the
vehicle couln't legally be put on the road. It ONLY has regenerative brakes!
They might get it past SVA (single vehicle approval) since the brakes will
resumably work fine. I think they said they would dissipate the energy in
the motors if the pack was full. It won't however meet the Construction and
Use regulations, which REQUIRE a mechanical braking system, even if power
operated.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion ListProc" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
No pictures; but it is what I thought of doing years ago...with a Cadillac
no less:
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=3818&s=093830c2d4de0416ca152fc10a078eef
EVRIDER
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Jun 2006 at 21:08, John Foster wrote:
> Hope the compressor doesn't burn out with the modified sine from the
> inverter. Where are you going to put it, in the window? :)
Why not?
http://www.evdl.org/tmp/aircon-truck.jpg
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Sherritze wrote:
> I have a 72 volt EV that I drive to work.
>
> I have been thinking about a dump charger that would build up charge
> all day and that would recharge the EV quickly when I get home. This
> would allow me to run my evening errands and then let both the EV and
> dump charger charge overnight.
I would suggest taking a serious look at the offerings from ETEC:
<http://www.etecevs.com/nev/>
The LSV-2472 might be sufficient to satisfy your needs, and if not, the
LSV-100 certainly will.
These are both intelligent fast chargers aimed specifically at the 72V
NEV market. I think that by the time you price out a 96V pack of
flooded GC batteries and some sort of charge controller to allow you to
control the charge rate (e.g. a motor controller and inductor), and a
charger to recharge the dump pack, and the contactor(s) etc. to connect
the dump pack to the NEV, you will probably find that the cost of simply
buying a fast charger is quite reasonable in comparison (especially
considering the cost of charging/maintaining/replacing the dump pack
over time, and the real estate it will consume in your garage).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes but the Porsche chargers are independant units and are no doubt isolated
from each other. My question was in regards to the
Deltran 10 Bank Battery Tender thats built as 1 unit.
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=DEL-021-0134
I remember seeing mention a ways back about people using this one, but I don't
remember if they had to isolate their batteries
prior to hookng up this charger.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:29 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: gang charger
>
>
> Mike Willmon wrote:
> > This might be a silly question but can you actually connect these 10 port
> > chargers in series, which is what you would
> be doing if
> > you hooked one to each battery in a series connected string.
> >
>
> But then you wouldn't have the benefit of keeping your batteries
> balanced ;-)
>
> Mathew, here is someone currently "ganging" up on their charging, FYI...
>
> http://www.knology.net/~gdion/EVPorsche/chargers.html
>
> ~ Peanut Gallery ~
>
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Hey, I wonder if this is actually a thermoacoustic cooler? Technically
those are supposed to fall under the Stirling Cycle category, but they
don't look anything like any textbook Stirling piston devices.
Danny
Suhas Malghan wrote:
It's probably undersized, but I'm really interested in the Stirling
compressor used in this Coleman cooler.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5726
-750&categoryid=8595
It uses only helium gas as the working fluid and sailboat people love
it because it uses so little energy that it can run off of a small
solar panel. I would like to put a/c in my MR2, but using a
conventional system with even the most "environmentally friendly"
refrigerant just seems like a case of less bad rather than more
good. Come fall I'm going to get one of these and figure out how to
adapt it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #48: Demonstration: Honda FCX Fuel Cell Car
Lawrence D'Arco, who is with the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation, is here with Honda's hydrogen gas powered fuel cell car, the FCX.
(I presume that stands for something like Fuel Cell eXperimental).
"We have two in the New York state fleet, that we lease from Honda. There are
twenty-two world wide. They sent them to Albany because New York state is very
progressive in terms of alternate fuel vehicles and because they wanted to run
these in a cold-weather climate and see how they operate. The hydrogen gas is
fed into the fuel cell, which produces electricity, which runs the electric
motor. The only thing that comes out of the tail pipe is heat and water vapor.
When the vapor condenses it is clean enough to drink."
These cars are normal state motor pool vehicles, although not given to just any
driver. There is an orientation. "The only difference is how you start it.
You turn the key and then you must wait about 10 seconds. After that it is no
different to drive than any other car. What is different is that it is
quieter, smoother, and has excellent acceleration."
We went for a ride. After Lawrence turned the key, the dark dashboard display
panel lit up with "Fuel Cell Powered", a couple of logos, "System Check" with a
bar graph showing progress, and then the dashboard lit up with the usual dials.
That was the 10-second start-up. "It may have been even less than 10 seconds
since it has recently been driven."
Backing out of the parking spot, the FCX showed its EVishness by making no
perceptible noise. "The graph on the left, the blue bars, shows the
electricity being produced by the fuel cell. The yellow bars show the
electricity coming from the ultra-capacitor (which takes the place of a
battery pack). "The ultra capacitor is used to keep up with sudden load
changes, and takes in energy created by regenerative braking. "The white bars
below show the amount of recharging." There is a display, measured in miles,
labelled "Distance To Empty", which read 100 miles when we started. "And these
blue bars indicate how much fuel is left. It has this gasoline pump symbol on
the gauge, but my pump station doesn't look like that."
As we drove, there were times when the energy use bars all showed zero; we were
just coasting. But when he punched the accelerator pedal, the car demonstrated
strong, smooth acceleration. The sound of acceleration is a quiet, smoothly
rising pitch, without the jumps associated with gear changing because there is
none. The electric motor connects to the front wheels without a transmission.
What has been the user reaction to the FCX? "I've not spoken to anyone who
disliked driving this vehicle. I've only heard good things about the
smoothness, the responsiveness, the quietness, and the acceleration. The one
disadvantage is the range, about 160 miles. " The only hydrogen station is in
Albany.
"There is one family in California that has a fuel cell vehicle; the only one
in the world. All the others are leased by government entities." As you might
expect, the car itself collects constant data, which Honda collects
periodically. "They were wondering who was driving the car at 85!"
"There is a lot of emphasis on hydrogen as the future, but there are a lot of
hurdles. To perfect this technology they have to bring down the cost, and
create the hydrogen infrastructure. If you had millions of vehicles with water
coming out of their tail pipes it would be pretty awesome, especially compared
to what we are doing now," but we should wonder what effect that might have.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #49: Photos - Honda FCX
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006/photos_021.html
Honda FCX
Last year the Honda FCX's were newly leased to New York State.
Now they have accumulated a year of experience.
Honda's Fuel Cell powered FCX.
Opened up for inspection.
Note the hole in the side view mirror;
I wonder why?
Under the hood.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2006 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2006
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2006 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Stef Komorowski
Classic Communications
508-698-6810
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew wrote:
Why not just open the windows! :-)
Actually I have done range tests with AC and with the windows open. In
highway driving, I use more power with windows down than with AC on.
AC does not take much power all things considered.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes you can do that but you are adding weight to the vehicle which will
affect range.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Air conditioning gains
You know, we might be on the wrong track trying to make an electric AC
like a "normal" car AC. Why not try to be something different?
The enormous cooling capacity of the std AC is due to the need to bleed
off the enormous heat of being in the sun and the very poor insulation
conditions while driving. How much of this can be "fixed"?
Back to my camper van. When Sportsmobile made its fiberglass pop-up
roof, they did insulate it. There's also fiberglass in the walls and
nice interior padding.
Even though it's a dark gray, I can tell you that this thing has FAR
less serious heating problems when you leave it in a parking lot in the
summer than any sedan I have been in. The steering wheel ain't gonna
blister you.
Possible ways to reduce the need to extremely high cooling capacity:
1. Insulate roof, walls, maybe even floor
2. Paint it white
3. Tint the windows other than the windshield
4. Automatic or otherwise very convenient shades for all the windows.
5. An exhaust fan to remove the high heat it absorbs being in the sun.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the suggestions. I guess I'll really have to look at the
floodies then. I've driven a car with floodies before and the car just
felt really heavy to drive. They were old though, perhaps new ones will
drive different?
-Jon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems that I killed one of my Trojans T-125s. It was about 1/2 year
old. A few days ago, my truck behaved pretty normal. I did normal my
normal watering schedule and the particular battery didn't needed more
than the others. The very next day the truck started to behave odd and
today, after a 13 Miles drive, I went ahead and checked all battery
voltages.
All batteries were about 0.05 volts from each other, but one battery read
4.43 Volts under light load, 5.58 with no load. Both battery posts were
warm to the touch while all other battery posts felt cool. I took the
battery from its box and put it on a seperate 6 V charger. The plus cell
became pretty hot after just a few minutes.
Can I safely assume that this battery is shot? And why would that happen?
I *never* discharged my batteries below 50% DOD and *never* pulled more
than 300 Amps. Charger is a Zivan NG-3 on board.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How many are you going to use? I think if you hook chargers up to each
individual battery you are going to get cross interference from them. I
would think if you used one or two with a rotator circuit and relays you
could keep them separate.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Matthew Milliron
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: gang charger
I have made the decision to make a gang-charger. Walmart had
Schumaker 12/8/2 Speed chargers for less than $40.
I plan to make something like this:
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=DEL-021-0134
These are isolated and have a 12/8/2 amp charge profile with
anti-sulfation settings.
http://www.batterychargers.com/itemlist.cfm?cid=2
I plan to take the 3phase out of the car and use these as an
opportunity charger.
Wadda ya think?
Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I try to water my batteries every month around the first so I don't forget
With the Florida heat and the moderately heavy use, it is not uncommon for
the cells of my GEM car's flooded batteries to take 4 to 6 oz of water per
cell.
When the batteries need a lot of water, I have also noticed that for a
couple of cycles after watering the range drops. I assume because the
battery electrolyte and water need time to mix.
If the battery does not come back after a half dozen cycles, then I would
take the battery back to the dealer for a diagnostic. At 6 months it should
still be under warranty.
My thoughts
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 4:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Dead Battery ?
It seems that I killed one of my Trojans T-125s. It was about 1/2 year
old. A few days ago, my truck behaved pretty normal. I did normal my
normal watering schedule and the particular battery didn't needed more
than the others. The very next day the truck started to behave odd and
today, after a 13 Miles drive, I went ahead and checked all battery
voltages.
All batteries were about 0.05 volts from each other, but one battery read
4.43 Volts under light load, 5.58 with no load. Both battery posts were
warm to the touch while all other battery posts felt cool. I took the
battery from its box and put it on a seperate 6 V charger. The plus cell
became pretty hot after just a few minutes.
Can I safely assume that this battery is shot? And why would that happen?
I *never* discharged my batteries below 50% DOD and *never* pulled more
than 300 Amps. Charger is a Zivan NG-3 on board.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed, but it's a matter of tradeoff. AC seems to be about 1kw for
5000 BTU. So an additional 5000 BTU for one hour is around 65 lbs of
battery capacity. In fact if you want to keep your discharges to 50%
for long life, this is 130 lbs of lead.
Spraying some high R-value polyurethane over the headliner and in the
voids is probably only in the low tens of lbs. Of course this may be
difficult but apparently just about everything with EV conversions
requires being pretty clever. Still this is only a portion of the total
heat problem, the windows remain, also a foam-filled A-pillar still has
a steel skin that can conduct quite a bit of heat around the foam.
The window shades can really help it from becoming a hotbox, but it
won't help the issue of maintaining a low temp while driving.
Danny
Jody Dewey wrote:
Yes you can do that but you are adding weight to the vehicle which will
affect range.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Air conditioning gains
You know, we might be on the wrong track trying to make an electric AC
like a "normal" car AC. Why not try to be something different?
The enormous cooling capacity of the std AC is due to the need to bleed
off the enormous heat of being in the sun and the very poor insulation
conditions while driving. How much of this can be "fixed"?
Back to my camper van. When Sportsmobile made its fiberglass pop-up
roof, they did insulate it. There's also fiberglass in the walls and
nice interior padding.
Even though it's a dark gray, I can tell you that this thing has FAR
less serious heating problems when you leave it in a parking lot in the
summer than any sedan I have been in. The steering wheel ain't gonna
blister you.
Possible ways to reduce the need to extremely high cooling capacity:
1. Insulate roof, walls, maybe even floor
2. Paint it white
3. Tint the windows other than the windshield
4. Automatic or otherwise very convenient shades for all the windows.
5. An exhaust fan to remove the high heat it absorbs being in the sun.
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michaela,
Its looks like you have one short cell. You have two cells at 2.21 volt each
or 4.41 volt total. If all three cells were good than it would be 6.64 volts
which is a normal voltage for a full charge battery.
Charging a 4.41 volt battery, on a 6 volt charger to 7 to 7.5 volts cause it to
be overcharge.
Just turn it back in for a new one, which you should be credit for 18 months
for a 24 month warrenty. Have them replace it with a battery date as close as
you ones in your EV.
Before you accept the battery, take a S.G. reading, voltage and a load reading.
Some dealers do not have maintainers on there stock.
Make sure they either warranty if from the day you get it, or get a disconnect
on a new battery that is dated, which they should prorated back to that date.
I had one T-145 go bad after 6 months, and they replace it free with a another
T-145 with the same battery dates as by other ones.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Michaela Merz<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Dead Battery ?
It seems that I killed one of my Trojans T-125s. It was about 1/2 year
old. A few days ago, my truck behaved pretty normal. I did normal my
normal watering schedule and the particular battery didn't needed more
than the others. The very next day the truck started to behave odd and
today, after a 13 Miles drive, I went ahead and checked all battery
voltages.
All batteries were about 0.05 volts from each other, but one battery read
4.43 Volts under light load, 5.58 with no load. Both battery posts were
warm to the touch while all other battery posts felt cool. I took the
battery from its box and put it on a seperate 6 V charger. The plus cell
became pretty hot after just a few minutes.
Can I safely assume that this battery is shot? And why would that happen?
I *never* discharged my batteries below 50% DOD and *never* pulled more
than 300 Amps. Charger is a Zivan NG-3 on board.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: Dead Battery ?
>
> It seems that I killed one of my Trojans T-125s. It was about 1/2 year
> old. A few days ago, my truck behaved pretty normal. I did normal my
> normal watering schedule and the particular battery didn't needed more
> than the others. The very next day the truck started to behave odd and
> today, after a 13 Miles drive, I went ahead and checked all battery
> voltages.
>
> All batteries were about 0.05 volts from each other, but one battery read
> 4.43 Volts under light load, 5.58 with no load. Both battery posts were
> warm to the touch while all other battery posts felt cool. I took the
> battery from its box and put it on a seperate 6 V charger. The plus cell
> became pretty hot after just a few minutes.
>
> Can I safely assume that this battery is shot? And why would that happen?
> I *never* discharged my batteries below 50% DOD and *never* pulled more
> than 300 Amps. Charger is a Zivan NG-3 on board.
>
> Michaela
>
Hi Michaela;
This happens. I don't know why. I'm hard on batteries and in my old,
(retired now)commute to work, like 150-2090 amps I sure found these
batteries pretty fast!I would say that the battery is shot. If you drive the
car a bit more agressivly you will find a severe voltage drop, when that
damn dead cell reverses, under load, and you will have a " Trojan Teakettle"
A bubbly hot cell, and a voltage check, not under lload will be about 4
volts.
Bastteries are like used people, you never know what you've got, til the
going gets tough.Bettya you SEE the voltage drop when ya drive? Right?
Sluggishg takeoffs, crappy range as you are boiling water, rather than
turning wheels. Pull that battery, just jumper around it, if ya havent got
any others.Plan on a respectful funeral for that one, or if it is under
warrenty? Take it back.
As for WHY/? Shit happens. I guess you COULD skilsaw the damn thing open
and look inside. But that is messy, and you arent gunna be able to fix it
anyhow. I guess I just find these things FASTER with my amp draws? But you
don't have to draw big amps. When the battery decides "I'm Outta Here"
That's it!
My two plates worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds too good to be true. The Li battery will not last 10years due to
calendar degradation. David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Compton
Sent: Sunday, 2 July 2006 5:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
I'm sure I had a phone discussion with the pople involved. They were very
ignorant at the time. They had no idea how to get a vehicle registered and
did not know about unsprun weight. The wheel motors weigh 18Kg each. That's
in addition to the wheel and suspension links. That's not going to make for
good ride, roadholding and handling. It's irrelevant anyway, since the
vehicle couln't legally be put on the road. It ONLY has regenerative brakes!
They might get it past SVA (single vehicle approval) since the brakes will
resumably work fine. I think they said they would dissipate the energy in
the motors if the pack was full. It won't however meet the Construction and
Use regulations, which REQUIRE a mechanical braking system, even if power
operated.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "EVRIDER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion ListProc" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: Hummmm Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
> No pictures; but it is what I thought of doing years ago...with a Cadillac
> no less:
>
>
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=3818&s=093830c2d
4de0416ca152fc10a078eef
>
> EVRIDER
>
--- End Message ---
