EV Digest 5628
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Commercial BMSs (was RE: Taurus EV)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Taurus EV
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) S10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: 3 Phase motor substitute?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Salt Flats Racing, Electrics allowed 130 club
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Taurus EV - battery equalizers
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 3 Phase motor substitute?
by Meta Bus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Motor Controller For GEM -- help!!
by "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Commercial BMSs (was RE: Taurus EV)
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Neon John's status
by "Pool, Ryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: S10
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Whr/mile
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: S10
by "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor Controller For GEM -- help!!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Whr/mile
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/7/06, mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As is the red bike. It's a poor Photoshop job.
Yes, it's clearly based on a picture of a real (high performance)
bike, but with fairings and the end of a motor airbrushed on with
photoshop or similar. Click on the image to enlarge it (a bit) and
you'll easily see the difference in texture between the real and
imaginary parts :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Valence
Possibly the best example, but I believe it is oriented toward looking
after the batteries during charge, and it is only available for
Valence's own Li batteries.
> Badicheck
Is this still in production?
> Toyta
> Honda
> Ford
What have they got for pure EVs, and is any of it commercially available
for use in EVs we build?
> Lee Hart Batbalencer
There's certainly potential here, but no cigar yet. At the present
time, this is not available as a finished commercial product and it
strictly looks after charging of batteries; no means of preventing the
user from abusing the batteries, nor of informing the user of immiment
battery service or failure. These features could be added, but don't
presently exist.
> Manzanita Micro Reg centered charging
Again, there is potential here, but no cigar yet. I don't believe the
Mk3s are commercially available yet, and the Mk1/Mk2's aren't suitable
for prime time in their present packaging (susceptible to moisture,
etc.). Again, this is a system that focusses primarily on doing
something for the batteries during charge (and I believe the jury is
still out on whether what they do is optimal or not). The under-voltage
indication offers the potential of notifying the user of a battery
fault/failure, but only after the fact; by the time the idiot light goes
on, the battery has been abused. The system does not have the ability
to protect the battery from the user. The Mk3's ability to communicate
data certainly should allow a BMS to be built on their foundation, but
they don't constitute one on their own. Get back to me when you have
some sort of node for sale that plugs into the MK3 comms bus and
notifies the user when the batteries start looking like they need
attention (before one or more get overdischarged), and interfaces to the
controller to prevent the user from dragging a battery below some
minimum safe voltage, etc.
> What do you have??? and what is the state of control and
> reporting that make a "Real BMS" in your mind?
For my own EV/research I've got a Lee Hart Balancer (in progress) and an
HP data acquisition unit with 40 channels of 5.5 digit A/D and 20
channels of dry contact outputs, of, and the ever faithful RS232
E-Meter, of course. None of these constitute a real BMS as far as I'm
concerned, but they are all useful tools to help me refine my short list
of features for a real BMS.
I think the comments I've offered above give a pretty good idea of the
sort of features I presently think ought to be in a BMS.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, and let's add that they claim that they have a registered trademark for
their "miracle material" - "Barotex". Unfortunately, no one seems to have told
the US Patent and Trademark Office about it. Also: the address for the
"company" is a UPS Store mailbox. Kind of hard to build 200+MPH motorcycles in
there. A little cramped, don't you think?
Seriously - why do people do these things? Even if some poor sucker sends them
a "deposit" - is it really worth the hassle (and potentially serious legal
problems?) And do people actually send money to random websites with clumsy
photoshopped items with humorously specific future "ship dates"? Without doing
any checking at all? I mean, with the internet, it's pretty easy to find all
of the red flags I've pointed out in minutes. Don't people Google before they
send money?
Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, I can't speak for the technical
issues (other than to raise my eyebrows at the claims) but I can say this: if
you google their phone number you get over a half-dozen different
organizations, all at the same address - website design, race horses (ooh!
"Hot Equestrians!), something about art and world peace, non-profits,
"charitable trusts", etc. Generally not the sign of a solid business. No
evidence of ever having actually created anything which, uh, actually runs.
Also, the various "corporate" identities listed - Timotca, GoWheels, etc. -
don't show up on the databases kept by the California or Nevada state
governments. Then there's the matter of the $2,877 wheels they're selling
which are so good because they're made of "Barotex and titanium". I'll leave
that to the metallurgists among you. But my general suspicion is, well - I
wouldn't invest too much time with these guys without actually seeing something
in person
that made sense.
Oh - and the blue bike on the website is an obvious and very clumsy fake,
which actually does appear to have used a picture of a bicycle as its base -
although it's hard to tell because the chain sort of disappears after it goes
behind the frame!
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi Jim, Why were they talking to you about their AC drives. Their site says
246 bhp at 12,500 rpm. We ALL know this is only possible with AC. I have had
a few DCs at 12,500 rpms and they are hard to disassemble. In fact I still
have one somewhere from Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, Arizona that exploded
on the straight stretch. When the windings fly out of the armature at that
rpm they entangle themselves in the fields so completely it is like ancient
roots around stones and logs. I have used very big hammers and chisels. They
just don't come apart. This is much different that a quick 20,000 rpm com
explosion from a missed shift. In this situation the com bars come out
rather quickly and all twisted and land all over the pavement This happens
in a fraction of a second. Hey Jim, I apologize if I was not supposed to see
what was on a web site. I hope I didn't get you in trouble with the AC boys.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> Hey All
>
> Well nothing like inviting a bull into a china shop, ROD!
> Here's the scoop
> I was contacted by Jay of GoWheels (who was refered to me by another list
> member) about doing some motor upgrades for these bikes recently. As
> someone who does his homework (at least trys) I wanted to get some outside
> input and thoughts. Having been blessed enough to have plopped into this
> new world via Wayland, I've worked hard to earn my own merit, but I'm also
> the first to admit that I don't know EVery damn thing either 8^ o
>
> Being I'm close to a gaggle of EV race legends it's nice to pick their
> heads and bounce stuff off them. Even on some black projects I like to
> get feedback, it's because I want to do all I can to meet a projects goal,
> and because I respect the insight.
>
> Well today was a real EV day, as I talked with 4 EV'ers, those being Rod,
> Jay Donnaway, Matt Graham, and FT. Being Rod had called me (more on that
> in another post) I asked him to have a look at the Gowheels site and let
> me know what he thought? I come home to this thread, lmao. Hey Rod, Paul
> Rever only needed 2 lights to report the British were coming okay, lmao
> 8^ P Now I doubt any secrets were revieled (I mean he has a web site up)
> but I'm thinking you're outside the secret of trust thingy for a bit Rod,
> LMAO!!!!
>
> After Rod, Jay Donnaway called whining that I didn't include the wiring
> diagram for the Gamera 9 which a quick fax seemed to stop that is until he
> discovered I called 2 studs the same number, hehehe, Opp's. I still have
> to load the pics but Jay has posted some up at his site of his Gamera9, I
> cant wait to get the ride that's been promised 8^ )
>
> I had to call Matt after that to make sure he still liked me after I
> razzed him last week and to see what the east coast boys were up to. We
> got to talk about WZ's last run, I then had to listen to razzing like "if
> the Siamese 8's Soooo awesome how come John still has vibration, that kind
> of stuff, always a treat talking with Matt. While talking with Matt, FT
> called.
>
> I called FT back and caught up with him but also talked about the
> Gowheels site (seemed Rod's been busy!, lmao harder). Well FT told me he
> called Gowheels up and talked with Jay. FT seemed at least semi-impressed
> and stated that they already build high end gas bikes through another
> division. I didn't get all the poop from FT, as he's been busier than a 2
> peckered goat in a field of nannies and had to keep things short 8^ o
> I actually invited Jay from Gowheels to sign up at the list here (as I do
> to any who are not) for the insight I believe this group could add. Hey
> Jay if you happen to be lurking, sorry if any "cat" has been let out of
> the bag.
> Being that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak, it seems
> there are already different camps as to what the performance of this might
> actually be.
> Anyway, my bad, thought Rod could be trusted to be ... (stop laughing
> Rich!)
> Cya all
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My BS needle is quivering on this one, too.
It takes over 4 times as much power to go 214 mph vs. 150 mph. Think
for a moment how many bikes or cars can break 200 mph. Precious few.
It is difficult to do even with a modified car.
It takes about as much power as White Zombie makes to go 214 mph. But
instead of doing full power for 13 seconds, you need to hold full
power for around 90 seconds or more. The NEDRA guys are using around
200 to 300 pounds of motor for < 15 seconds for this much power. Even
the Killacycle, light as it is, has about 200 lbs of motors. The land
speed racers are using around 400 pounds of electric motor for their
runs. I think the ProEV guys have about 300 or 400 lbs of electric
motors.
So how does this 457 pound motorcyle hold enough pounds of batteries
to make around 300 kW, and enough pounds of motor to not melt on the
way to 214 mph?
I really would like this to be true. I'll be the first to happily
announce they went 214 mph on the Salt Flats. Heck, just go 165 mph
and take the record, no shame in that speed.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > That bike does not have the setup to do 214 at tops speed.
>
> ...
> What sort of setup do you think is missing to hit 214MPH? I've
> done
> 150+ riding two up on a Suzuki GS1150 with inferior brakes and
> similar
> chain drive - the two items you chose to comment on.
> ...
> that the claims may be exaggerated, however, with a $90K pricetag I
> maintain that they can afford to throw the sort of technology at
> this
> that you and most other EV racers can only dream about. You'd be
> amazed
> at how much more performance you could get out of Goldie if you
> had,
> say, $80K more to invest in her than you've got in her to date.
>
> > The simple warning is ... I bet the specs are not real.
>
> I certainly wouldn't bet against you on that ;^>
>
> But I would bet that if they build one of these, it will come
> closer to
> their predictions than you think.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Valence
Badicheck
Toyta
Honda
Ford
Lee Hart Batbalencer
Manzanita Micro Reg centered charging
ETC...
There are a bout 3 to 6 of us here on the list that have some form of BMS
from a stack of regs to full data collecetion and charger/controller
interfaces.
Yea What is a BMS in your mind and what CAN preform as a adequate BMS are
two totally differnt things.
To have you brush your hands over a LOT of effort from a LOT of skilled
folks is a insult.
What do you have??? and what is the state of control and reporting that make
a "Real BMS" in your mind?
There's not much I don't know about every battery while I charge my Fiero
with Mk3 Regs. I don't dare charge the car without the BMS hooked up and
working.. there is that much
data and control. Some how I cut the link to the front 9 batteries
yesterday.. and I have to climb under the car and find the open. Great
sport...
I know I have a BMS ,I keep having to find out what ripped it out of the
EV.. I am thinking about armored data cable runs....
A few more Tye Wraps might help also....
Are volts real time, hi setpoint, low setpoint, Status, heatsink temp,
battery temp, Max V since last charge, Min V since last charge, Good enough
data points?
The stat byte tells if over temp, over temp real time, dissapation channel
active, or enabled? So.. Yea I can data log and dissapate power, and I can
control the charge and or controller with my BMS.
What else am I missing???
The couple megs of GUI code that would let the unwashed masses play with it
on thier Palm or PC while doing E-mail???
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
Yea I have a BMS...
And a few more good ideas....
I think perchance they are referring to Battery Management Systems, not
Battery Monitoring Systems. Your regs *are* the bees knees, and Lee's
designs are almost sublime in their simplicity.
But they are not fully automatic systems. They help *us* manage the
bats, and properly set our chargers, and even baby-sit the batteries at
times. Some even let us know when a bat is going bad, if we dutifully
check the data. But how many current systems simply get set once by a
bat installer, and manage the bats & charger for us? No data needed for
us mere humans, besides a colorfull yes/no/maybe light ;-)
I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm honestly curious if any current
systems do perform full battery management, as in:
They set the charger for the batteries needs (share a charger between a
flooded, and an AGM car, and a Li-poly car by simply plugging one or the
other in? It will need to happen if EVs are to become mainstream), they
tell me when to replace a battery or have the pack looked at by a tech,
they keep the pack balanced without any other action besides plugging it
in every night and walking away. Basically they watch all the data and
perform the appropriate action themselves, or flash a bright red light
at me if they can't fix the problem.
Yes, I know that's a lot, and how silly are we as humans to need all
this hand-holding by our (not always) faithful little electronic
helpers? You may certainly not, even I may not given some time with a
book or two. But the general population does insist on it, for whatever
reason (insert flame-happy topic here), if they are to accept EVs into
their daily lives.
P.S. Although I suspect that a set of Mk3s with a central "brain",
combined with an uber-flexible current/voltage programmable charger, and
a few more odds and end, might fit the bill nicely...
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some real 1 liter
150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
Hi Mr. Madman,
The picture of the red machine they have on their website is a
photoshoped cut and paste job of one of those 150 mph rice rockets.
They just botched it up that bad.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just noticed Chevy stopped the S10 line in 2004 and doesn't seem to have
a replacement small pickup truck? (yeah, I'm behind 2 years :)
Sure, there are countless S10's out on the road. However, what is the next
new truck that is so convenient to convert?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent! The other issue is charging. It uses the igbt's and at
least part of the motor to charge the pack. So I would need an
inductor that is tuned for the circuit. Or would I?
Mike
>
> Another possibility is a motor equivalent circuit. An induction motor
> looks like a resistor and inductor in series. The resistor is the
> winding resistance and mechanical load on the shaft. The inductor is
> from the winding inductance (combined rotor and stator). A 3-phase
> version would consist of 3 resistors and 3 inductors, wired in either
> delta or wye (same as for a real motor).
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Their claim alone are not incredible...
for that money it's possible to make a bike go very fast and relatively far
but their way of presenting show they are not serious which turn their
claims becoming uncredible and their webpages ridiculous.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "mreish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> >Well, I can't speak for the technical issues (other than to raise my
> >eyebrows at the claims) but I can say this: if you google their
> >phone number you get over a half-dozen different organizations, all
> >at the same address - website design, race horses (ooh! "Hot
> >Equestrians!), something about art and world
>
> They also do website design, eh? Here's a tip: if you're going to
> make extravagant claims about your product to bring in investors, it
> might be to your benefit to swing by the local community college and
> hire someone who actually knows something about design. And learn the
> difference between a warrantee and a warranty.
>
> > Oh - and the blue bike on the website is an obvious and very
> >clumsy fake, which actually does appear
>
> As is the red bike. It's a poor Photoshop job.
>
> I'm sorry but everything about this yells SCAM. I hope I'm wrong. I
> hope they've actually got a product.
>
> --
>
> The Electric Motorcycle Portal
> http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
>
> Electric Motorcycle Listserv
> http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well get crackin' Otmar...
We need more high voltage controllers!
Yea I know no rest for the wicked...
I certainly know that right now..
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: Electrics Wow the PIR Crowd Friday Night! (pt. 1)
> > Twin controllers would probably make John's car go faster. (It
> >would certainly make Otmar smile.)
>
> What!? You want to overload me even more!?
> My backlog is embarrassingly long already. I'm sure he's fine with one. ;)
> --
> -Otmar-
> 914 EV, California Poppy,
> http://evcl.com/914/
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/
> The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
> Now accepting resumes. Please see:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 130 club is the only class where you can run a stock vehicle on
the Salt Flats. You must go between 130 and 140 mph to become a
member of the club. Many vehicles don't make it.
<http://www.saltflats.com>
Good news, this year electrics are now specifically allowed! They are
listed as OK in the rules:
Only gasoline, diesel, ethanol, bio-diesel, electric, propane, or
natural gas fuels may be used - NO Nitrous Oxide, Methanol or
Nitro-fueled vehicles will be allowed.
My personal angst, I don't have an electric vehicle to run yet! But
I'm working on it!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine is VP of Engineering for this
company,
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/prod_batteq.htm
You can add them to your list of battery monitering
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
What could I use to substitute for a 3 phase motor, to test my
boards with? It needs to be low amps and small in size.
Mike,
Check out eBay item #150007182777
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150007182777)
which is a motion-control development kit for the ubiquitous TI
MS320F240 DSP controller-- the kit comes with a 50w 3-phase inverter &
motor. Might fit the bill in more ways that one.
See http://www.technosoftmotion.com/products/TOOLS_MCK.htm for details
on the kit. I got one of these a while back, but it has been
shelf-sitting as I hack my AVS & Capstone.
Regards,
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an '02 GEM, eL.
It's brand new for me.
-41 Error Code appeared on the battery discharge indicator on Monday &
Tuesday a few times.
Here's what the service manual says is wrong:
Open Thermal Protector or Transistor Over Temperature
And here's what the service manual says to do about it:
Motor Controller is in thermal cut back. Allow to cool & the status code
should disappear. If problem persists after the Motor Controller has
cooled, replace the Motor Controller.
As of Thursday evening -- nothing. The car won't turn on. No response.
And fully charged.
It says that the controller also generates drive system status info that is
displayed on the battery discharge indicator, which is blank.
So, being a newbie with all of this I have no idea what any of it means &
how to interpret the information .. except that the GEM won't work!
I'm going to replace the 12V fuse .. maybe it's that simple.
I'm curious what it costs to replace a Motor Controller .. who would do this
(I'm in Santa Cruz County) .. and are there different ones to choose from?
Thank You!!
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, it's a Daytona 675. Not exactly a toy, but certainly not electric.
Compare and contrast:
http://www.mcnews.com.au/Wallpaper/Triumph/daytona_675/2006/daytona_675_2006_rhs_1024.jpg
http://www.gowheel.com/ii/evDaytona_motorcycle.jpg
Ha ha :)
Regards
Evan
On 7/7/06, mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Some how the front brakes look like toys... compared to some real 1 liter
>150 mph rice rockets I have actually seen.
Hi Mr. Madman,
The picture of the red machine they have on their website is a
photoshoped cut and paste job of one of those 150 mph rice rockets.
They just botched it up that bad.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AirLab GAIA I power system
- Complete design to prevent any intentional or unintentional abuse
- Modular design to ease capacity increase without changing system voltage
- Flexible form factor to most efficiently utilize available space
- Graphical user interface
www.airlabcorp.com
However, it is only available for OEM's. Stay tune to the website because
we are steadily adding more info.
On 7/7/06, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Valence
Possibly the best example, but I believe it is oriented toward looking
after the batteries during charge, and it is only available for
Valence's own Li batteries.
> Badicheck
Is this still in production?
> Toyta
> Honda
> Ford
What have they got for pure EVs, and is any of it commercially available
for use in EVs we build?
> Lee Hart Batbalencer
There's certainly potential here, but no cigar yet. At the present
time, this is not available as a finished commercial product and it
strictly looks after charging of batteries; no means of preventing the
user from abusing the batteries, nor of informing the user of immiment
battery service or failure. These features could be added, but don't
presently exist.
> Manzanita Micro Reg centered charging
Again, there is potential here, but no cigar yet. I don't believe the
Mk3s are commercially available yet, and the Mk1/Mk2's aren't suitable
for prime time in their present packaging (susceptible to moisture,
etc.). Again, this is a system that focusses primarily on doing
something for the batteries during charge (and I believe the jury is
still out on whether what they do is optimal or not). The under-voltage
indication offers the potential of notifying the user of a battery
fault/failure, but only after the fact; by the time the idiot light goes
on, the battery has been abused. The system does not have the ability
to protect the battery from the user. The Mk3's ability to communicate
data certainly should allow a BMS to be built on their foundation, but
they don't constitute one on their own. Get back to me when you have
some sort of node for sale that plugs into the MK3 comms bus and
notifies the user when the batteries start looking like they need
attention (before one or more get overdischarged), and interfaces to the
controller to prevent the user from dragging a battery below some
minimum safe voltage, etc.
> What do you have??? and what is the state of control and
> reporting that make a "Real BMS" in your mind?
For my own EV/research I've got a Lee Hart Balancer (in progress) and an
HP data acquisition unit with 40 channels of 5.5 digit A/D and 20
channels of dry contact outputs, of, and the ever faithful RS232
E-Meter, of course. None of these constitute a real BMS as far as I'm
concerned, but they are all useful tools to help me refine my short list
of features for a real BMS.
I think the comments I've offered above give a pretty good idea of the
sort of features I presently think ought to be in a BMS.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Edward Ang
AirLab
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen some posts asking about why he's been silent so long. He's been
having problems sending emails to the list lately. He made some changes to his
web hosting and now is having issues. It seems as if his hosting provider is
spam blacklisted. I've been trying to help him out a little with it. Since
people are curious about his status I thought I'd share.
He thinks he'll be back on in about a month or so.
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben,
The Chevy S10 and GMC Sonoma were replaced by the Chevy Colorado and GMC
Canyon. As with most vehicles the new models are heavier (and in my opinion
better looking) than the vehicles that they replaced.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my mind this is a good test of efficiency ....
Are there any Whr/mile figures for EV trips? Round trips with average
speed?
Some e-bike folks are claiming 18-20 Whr/mile No pedaling - Round trip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, it's a Daytona 675. Not exactly a toy, but certainly not electric.
Compare and contrast:
http://www.mcnews.com.au/Wallpaper/Triumph/daytona_675/2006/daytona_675_2006_rhs_1024.jpg
http://www.gowheel.com/ii/evDaytona_motorcycle.jpg
Good eye Evan! I like how GoWheel left the fork caps and brake
revisor floating in mid air.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
Electric Motorcycle Listserv
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/listserv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm, curiouser and curiouser. Seems like one Edward J. Lashlee (aka "Jay
Lashlee") from Orange County, California, was sentenced to three years in
federal prison in 2003 for promoting bogus offshore trusts in a tax fraud
scheme. Then "J. Lashlee, Trustee International Advisor" shows up as a
bcontact for the "TINOTCA" organization which has thre same phone number and
Orange County address (that is, UPS Store mailbox number) as "GoWheels" with
their 200+ MPH electric motorcycle with "Barotex" wheels.
Who was that you said you talked to, Jim?
Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Oh, and let's add that they claim that
they have a registered trademark for their "miracle material" - "Barotex".
Unfortunately, no one seems to have told the US Patent and Trademark Office
about it. Also: the address for the "company" is a UPS Store mailbox. Kind of
hard to build 200+MPH motorcycles in there. A little cramped, don't you think?
Seriously - why do people do these things? Even if some poor sucker sends them
a "deposit" - is it really worth the hassle (and potentially serious legal
problems?) And do people actually send money to random websites with clumsy
photoshopped items with humorously specific future "ship dates"? Without doing
any checking at all? I mean, with the internet, it's pretty easy to find all
of the red flags I've pointed out in minutes. Don't people Google before they
send money?
Steve Condie
wrote: Well, I can't speak for the technical issues (other than to raise my
eyebrows at the claims) but I can say this: if you google their phone number
you get over a half-dozen different organizations, all at the same address -
website design, race horses (ooh! "Hot Equestrians!), something about art and
world peace, non-profits, "charitable trusts", etc. Generally not the sign of
a solid business. No evidence of ever having actually created anything which,
uh, actually runs. Also, the various "corporate" identities listed - Timotca,
GoWheels, etc. - don't show up on the databases kept by the California or
Nevada state governments. Then there's the matter of the $2,877 wheels they're
selling which are so good because they're made of "Barotex and titanium". I'll
leave that to the metallurgists among you. But my general suspicion is, well -
I wouldn't invest too much time with these guys without actually seeing
something in person
that made sense.
Oh - and the blue bike on the website is an obvious and very clumsy fake,
which actually does appear to have used a picture of a bicycle as its base -
although it's hard to tell because the chain sort of disappears after it goes
behind the frame!
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi Jim, Why were they talking to you about their AC drives. Their site says
246 bhp at 12,500 rpm. We ALL know this is only possible with AC. I have had
a few DCs at 12,500 rpms and they are hard to disassemble. In fact I still
have one somewhere from Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, Arizona that exploded
on the straight stretch. When the windings fly out of the armature at that
rpm they entangle themselves in the fields so completely it is like ancient
roots around stones and logs. I have used very big hammers and chisels. They
just don't come apart. This is much different that a quick 20,000 rpm com
explosion from a missed shift. In this situation the com bars come out
rather quickly and all twisted and land all over the pavement This happens
in a fraction of a second. Hey Jim, I apologize if I was not supposed to see
what was on a web site. I hope I didn't get you in trouble with the AC boys.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: New 214 MPH Electric Motorcycle
> Hey All
>
> Well nothing like inviting a bull into a china shop, ROD!
> Here's the scoop
> I was contacted by Jay of GoWheels (who was refered to me by another list
> member) about doing some motor upgrades for these bikes recently. As
> someone who does his homework (at least trys) I wanted to get some outside
> input and thoughts. Having been blessed enough to have plopped into this
> new world via Wayland, I've worked hard to earn my own merit, but I'm also
> the first to admit that I don't know EVery damn thing either 8^ o
>
> Being I'm close to a gaggle of EV race legends it's nice to pick their
> heads and bounce stuff off them. Even on some black projects I like to
> get feedback, it's because I want to do all I can to meet a projects goal,
> and because I respect the insight.
>
> Well today was a real EV day, as I talked with 4 EV'ers, those being Rod,
> Jay Donnaway, Matt Graham, and FT. Being Rod had called me (more on that
> in another post) I asked him to have a look at the Gowheels site and let
> me know what he thought? I come home to this thread, lmao. Hey Rod, Paul
> Rever only needed 2 lights to report the British were coming okay, lmao
> 8^ P Now I doubt any secrets were revieled (I mean he has a web site up)
> but I'm thinking you're outside the secret of trust thingy for a bit Rod,
> LMAO!!!!
>
> After Rod, Jay Donnaway called whining that I didn't include the wiring
> diagram for the Gamera 9 which a quick fax seemed to stop that is until he
> discovered I called 2 studs the same number, hehehe, Opp's. I still have
> to load the pics but Jay has posted some up at his site of his Gamera9, I
> cant wait to get the ride that's been promised 8^ )
>
> I had to call Matt after that to make sure he still liked me after I
> razzed him last week and to see what the east coast boys were up to. We
> got to talk about WZ's last run, I then had to listen to razzing like "if
> the Siamese 8's Soooo awesome how come John still has vibration, that kind
> of stuff, always a treat talking with Matt. While talking with Matt, FT
> called.
>
> I called FT back and caught up with him but also talked about the
> Gowheels site (seemed Rod's been busy!, lmao harder). Well FT told me he
> called Gowheels up and talked with Jay. FT seemed at least semi-impressed
> and stated that they already build high end gas bikes through another
> division. I didn't get all the poop from FT, as he's been busier than a 2
> peckered goat in a field of nannies and had to keep things short 8^ o
> I actually invited Jay from Gowheels to sign up at the list here (as I do
> to any who are not) for the insight I believe this group could add. Hey
> Jay if you happen to be lurking, sorry if any "cat" has been let out of
> the bag.
> Being that the cat has been let out of the bag so to speak, it seems
> there are already different camps as to what the performance of this might
> actually be.
> Anyway, my bad, thought Rod could be trusted to be ... (stop laughing
> Rich!)
> Cya all
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The replacement for the S10 is the Chevy Colorado.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: S10
I just noticed Chevy stopped the S10 line in 2004 and doesn't seem to have
a replacement small pickup truck? (yeah, I'm behind 2 years :)
Sure, there are countless S10's out on the road. However, what is the next
new truck that is so convenient to convert?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have an '02 GEM, eL.
> It's brand new for me.
>
> -41 Error Code appeared on the battery discharge
> indicator on Monday &
> Tuesday a few times.
>
> Here's what the service manual says is wrong:
> Open Thermal Protector or Transistor Over
> Temperature
>
> And here's what the service manual says to do about
> it:
> Motor Controller is in thermal cut back. Allow to
> cool & the status code
> should disappear. If problem persists after the
> Motor Controller has
> cooled, replace the Motor Controller.
>
> As of Thursday evening -- nothing. The car won't
> turn on. No response.
> And fully charged.
>
> It says that the controller also generates drive
> system status info that is
> displayed on the battery discharge indicator, which
> is blank.
>
> So, being a newbie with all of this I have no idea
> what any of it means &
> how to interpret the information .. except that the
> GEM won't work!
>
> I'm going to replace the 12V fuse .. maybe it's that
> simple.
>
> I'm curious what it costs to replace a Motor
> Controller .. who would do this
> (I'm in Santa Cruz County) .. and are there
> different ones to choose from?
>
DC controllers are made by Curtis (1231-8601), about
$1500; Auburn Grizzly (to 2200; prices approximate);
DCP Raptor (discontinued)and of course, 'Zillas.
AC controllers: Siemens (discontinued, but available
from Metric Mind), and there's another, but the name
escapes me.
You're in luck, being in Santa Cruz. Mike Brown
(ElectroAuto.com) lives/works there; and he should be
able to take care of you.
I'm going to bet that a local JC or electrical
engineer can troubleshoot your controller for much
cheaper than you're going to get a controller for, but
it will take a week or two to remove the unit, find
the right person, and wait for the repairs.
Do you have a schematic for the unit?
I forget the saga about GEMcars.
peace,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My PM Etek powered scooter towing a 490 lb battery trailer ran 120 wh/mile for
55 miles. My 1600 lb Cushman with ADC 6.7" motor uses about 350 wh/mile at
35~40MPH, same speed as I ran the scooter at. In my limited experiance, PM DC
motors are more efficient than ADC motors and AC are more efficent than both.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=802
Bob
jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In my mind this is a good test of efficiency ....
Are there any Whr/mile figures for EV trips? Round trips with average
speed?
Some e-bike folks are claiming 18-20 Whr/mile No pedaling - Round trip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/7/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jim, Why were they talking to you about their AC drives. Their site says
246 bhp at 12,500 rpm.
Steady on Rod, it clearly doesn't have any motor at all. Check out
the Triumph site: it says
125PS (123bhp) at 12,500 rpm. So he's imaginatively doubled the HP
for this imaginary creation.
http://www.triumph.co.uk/3942.aspx
It's obviously just some kid messing about with photoshop, I wouldn't
sweat it ;)
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