EV Digest 5634
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Burned Motor
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV for a different customer.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Burned Motor
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Tire info link / weight of wheels question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Burned Motor
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: sick PMC-25
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: String equalization and lifetime
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: String equalization and lifetime
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Automatic transmission viable for drag racing
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Protecting the zilla
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: String equalization and lifetime
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Roderick Wilde did something to my motor!
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Automatic transmission viable for drag racing
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Burned Motor
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Whr/mile
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Burned Motor
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Automatic transmission viable for drag racing
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Protecting the zilla
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Protecting the zilla
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Update , From Tony's
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
"Justafiable motorcide" he he, I like it, I guess wayland and rudmen
are competeing for the "justifiable battricide" award. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Did you say the Sparrow burned? I have followed your sparrow for some time
and I hope that's not the case.
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 5:44 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Burned Motor
I had an 8" ADC (w/ broken brushworks) sitting on the shelf in my
shop when it burned.
Is the motor salvageable? Or is it trash now.
Note that this was a HOT fire. Aluminum melted, and the concrete
floor is shattered down 1 or 2 inches.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Interesting, but I would think the user would be paranoid that the
> friction drive would tear up tires.
I agree; it sounds kind of hokey. But give it some thought before
dismissing it.
If you use a small roller running on a big tire (like electric bikes),
then a friction drive is rather poor. Transmitting high torque thru that
small contact patch requires high contact pressure. But this makes the
tire deflect a lot. This creates lots of wear and friction.
But now consider it with a much larger tire. Suppose you used the same
size tire for the friction rollers as the back tires of the truck. A
good radial tire has 0.6% to 0.8% rolling resistance. If you press *two*
such tires together, both at the same inflation pressure, then the
contact patch between them is a flat spot, of the same size and shape as
if it were rolling on the road. So each has its normal traction, rolling
resistance, wear, etc.
So now we have three contact patches; tire to road, tire to roller, and
roller to tire. Our rolling resistance should be 3 times that of the
tire alone, or about 3x0.6% = 1.8% to 3x0.8% = 2.4%. The truck's back
tires should only wear twice as fast, the friction tire wears normally,
and you have 100% of the tire's normal traction.
Now as a practical matter, I'd probably use a bit smaller tire for the
friction roller. It gives you a gear reduction effect, simplifying
finding a differential and electric motor that will work without any
further gearing. I'd probably also reduce the contact pressure on the
friction roller, since the electric drive will have a smaller motor and
controller, suited to modest around-town driving rather than hill-climbs
or drag racing.
I'd probably also arrange some sort of automatic system that incresed
the roller pressure as electric motor torque (current) increased. That
way, coasting along would have minimal pressure and so minimal drag.
> Also the torque direct to the wheel is kinda high.
Not really. I'm envisioning this for modest low-speed around-town
driving. Use the ICE when you want to accellerate fast, climb hills, or
pull trailers.
> 1. A replacement rear suspension for my FWD grand am that has a
> motor. this "kit" bolts in in a weekend and accepts 10 orbitals between
> the rear strut towers keeping the useable part of the trunk. Instant
> plug in hybrid.
> 2. same Idea as you except driving the driveline with a chain. The
> motor is mounted in the middle of the sled and a hole in the bed allows
> for a lovejoy coupling to chain drive. Cut 3" x 6" hole in bed, slide it
> up and bolt to the rear of tranny, then re-attach driveline. It would
> add about a 1/4" to drive line length. We just need to mount the motor
> on rubber mounts to allow some movement. Tap into the ICE throttle
> position pot, most are a 5K or 6K pot anyway. put a hydralic pressure
> sensor on the brake line. Like from Omega engineering.
Both of these can work, too. Just more work.
> Any of these instant hybrids could really get a large mass of people
> into EV's in a big way. We could even sell as part of the kit a 2hp
> motor to mount on the single serpentine belt and put a overrun clutch on
> the main crank, then it can shutdown at will.
Exactly! If people had a painless, reversible way to try "hybridizing"
or "EV-izing" their present car, they'd be a lot more likely to try it!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Jul 2006 at 14:43, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I had an 8" ADC (w/ broken brushworks) sitting on the shelf in my
> shop when it burned.
I didn't know your shop had burned. What happened? Is everyone OK? Was
the fire related to the Sparrow? Was it damaged?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
> - My own EV has 18k miles on its nearly 8-year-old Concorde AGM pack.
> Most of these miles were accumulated using my own Battery Balancer,
> but it had nothing for its first 6 months, and my zener/lamp
> regulators for about 1 year.
The first few months the batteries tend to stay together very well,
if they are all the same production date and SOC to begin with.
Differences build up over time.
What voltage do you charge your batteries to avoid the grid
corrosion caused by too high (equalization) charge that is not
necessary due to the electronic equalization?
I have always charged my AGMS with 2.28V/cell (13.7 per battery
and 356V on a 312V pack)
while occasionally (once a month) increased voltage to 385V
(14.8V per battery, 2.47V per cell) but only kept it there until
the current dropped to about 1A, which usually happened within
1/2 hour from the state of float-charging at 356V.
Note that I used this increased voltage with a fixed 2A limit
to limit gassing as the recombiners should be able to keep up
with the amount of gas produced at that current in my 110 Ah
batteries.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven,
You have a Ranger.
Wheel weight is quite irrelevant for a truck, unless you drag-race it.
My truck has Tigerpaws, I inflated them to 50 PSI to reduce the
rolling resistance.
See http://evalbum.com/694
I am currently shopping around for decently priced LRR tires for
my classic Prius.
It came OEM with Bridgestone Potenza RE92 XL but those are
shockingly expensive in most shops.
Alternatives are the Sumitomo HTR 200 and Walmarts Goodyear Viva 2
which are both very reasonably priced, around $50 and are both LRR.
Walmart cannot ship even though they show the tire in stock and I have
not found a local place that can get me the Sumitomo.
I'll keep looking.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Steven Potter
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 8:18 AM
To: 'EV List'
Subject: Tire info link / weight of wheels question
I came across the Tire Bible while doing some research for my EV
project:
http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html
It’s a very interesting read and covers just about everything you’d want
to know about tires. The one exception being it makes no reference
whatsoever to LRR tires…my main concern at the moment.
Today I’ll crawl down under and try to decipher the codes on the inside
of my alloy wheels. My truck came with huge, fat low profile radials. I
need to see if I can re-use the same wheels with LRR tires.
If I end up needing to get new wheels I’d be interested in seeing any
info about the weights of various steel and aluminum wheels. Anyone seen
this info anywhere?
Steven Potter, Toronto
’98 Ranger
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- Begin Message ---
My Dad had a fire in his paint shop that melted carberetors down into intake
manifolds and took 36 I beems and bent them like cork screws. Took a Bear
Machine frame straightener and warped it but he was still able to send hi
12hp 3phase dc motor in of the compressor and have it rewond and rebuilt and
it worked perfect after that.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 5:43 PM
Subject: Burned Motor
I had an 8" ADC (w/ broken brushworks) sitting on the shelf in my shop when
it burned.
Is the motor salvageable? Or is it trash now.
Note that this was a HOT fire. Aluminum melted, and the concrete floor is
shattered down 1 or 2 inches.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/381 - Release Date: 7/3/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger, I know of someone who has reverse engineered the PMC-xx controllers
and was able to repair a similar problem. I tried to email you at the
address from which you posted, but the message bounced. Please contact me
by private email at the address obtained by concatenating :
mailname == evadm
the commercial at sign
second level domain == drmm
top level domain (tld) == net
That is, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (but use the right elements)
Sorry to be so weird about it, but I'm trying to avoid letting the spambots
harvest that mail address.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
You can't get away from equalization entirely. Don't forget that even if
individual modules in the pack are apparently balanced by some kind of bms,
the individual cells within those modules may not be balanced. Eventually,
you'll still have to carry out some kind of equalization at the module level
to balance those cells.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm struggling with this, too. I have the same AGM's as Cor - UB121100's - and
I'm just not sure which way to go. I've charged them at 13.7. I've charged
them at 14.8 and then cut back to 13.7. I've got Z-regs which don't appear to
do anything below 13.8, so if I don't go higher I won't get any equalization
action from them. But I'm worried about what higher voltage will do to my
sealed batteries. <sigh> I guess there's no easily discernable answer, is
there? We're all looking for the magic charging formula which will deliver
maximum life, minimum charge time, and maximum equalization. And the thing is,
the darn batteries are like little creatures - each battery - heck, each
**cell** has its individual personality, strengths and weaknesses that you
can't tell from the outside. Chemistry!
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You can't get away from equalization
entirely. Don't forget that even if
individual modules in the pack are apparently balanced by some kind of bms,
the individual cells within those modules may not be balanced. Eventually,
you'll still have to carry out some kind of equalization at the module level
to balance those cells.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I'm toying with the idea of stepping out of the low voltage bikes, and into a
drag car. Probably a Chevy Vega, Chevy Monza, Mazda RX7, something along those
lines. Say 11" GE motor. How about a 3 speed automatic. Maybe Chevy Turbo
350, but probably Chevy Turbo 400 to ensure it can handle the high torque. Now
I know a few guys have used the powerglide. No Torque Converter. Manual Valve
Body. I'm sure there's some out there, maybe street cars running a 3 speed
auto, but I don't believe there's anybody racing one.
OK, why the 3 speed in a lightweight car? Well I was hoping to get buy on the
cheap without a zilla, maybe some series parallel pack switching. Maybe some
field weakening.
Bottom line, are there going to be tremendous losses in the automatic
transmission? Without the torque converter, the efficiency should increase a
lot. Will the gains of keeping the motor in the powerband longer outweigh the
transmission losses? Any obvious problems with this solution? It might not be
optimal, but I think it would be worth a try.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had allowed water to get to my Zila and Otmar had to fix it. SO, I am
trying to rearrange under the hood and get the electronics into a box.
I made lots of progress today and took some pictures. Hopefully there is
enough of good ideas to offset the "why did he do that" ?.
cvevs.jfs-tech.com under heading "putting the zilla in a box" are these
5 pictures
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00144.jpg titled Mmmm, bussbars
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00145.jpg Pump and resivoir
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00146.jpg Closeup of pump, this is a
swiftech MCP 350, may be too small
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00147.jpg Water cooled vicor
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00148.jpg on to the radiator
I was getting worried, things just weren't going right, but they started
to come togather today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> [to Lee] What voltage do you charge your batteries to avoid the
> grid corrosion caused by too high (equalization) charge that is
> not necessary due to the electronic equalization?
My charger is set up to put back 100% of the amphours removed at a bulk
charge rate of 5-10 amps; at this point the batteries will be at around
14.4v. Then the charger holds the voltage constant and lets the current
taper down to 0.5 amps at 14.8v (per 12v battery), or a timer shuts it
off after two hours.
The zener-lamp regulators are on it at the moment; so in fact a battery
at 14.8v gets only 0.1 amps (the other 0.4 amps is going thru the
regulator).
Once or twice a month, I continue charging on "high" (about 1-2 amps
with no voltage limit) for an extra 1-2 hours to equalize.
These are Concorde AGMs, which don't seem to mind these lower charging
rates. I don't think I'd charge Hawkers at these low bulk currents, and
would do my finishing charge at a higher rate on Optimas.
> I have always charged my AGMs with 2.28V/cell (13.7 per battery
> and 356V on a 312V pack) while occasionally (once a month) increased
> voltage to 385V (14.8V per battery, 2.47V per cell) but only kept it
> there until the current dropped to about 1A, which usually happened
> within 1/2 hour from the state of float-charging at 356V.
> Note that I used this increased voltage with a fixed 2A limit
> to limit gassing as the recombiners should be able to keep up
> with the amount of gas produced at that current in my 110 Ah
> batteries.
That sounds reasonable. What kind of batteries?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Condie wrote:
> I'm struggling with this, too. I have the same AGM's as Cor - UB121100's
> - and I'm just not sure which way to go. I've charged them at 13.7.
> I've charged them at 14.8 and then cut back to 13.7. I've got Z-regs
> which don't appear to do anything below 13.8, so if I don't go higher
> I won't get any equalization action from them.
True; but at 13.7v, you are essentially float charging them (no
equalization, very long charge times). The only thing the zener
regulators will do for you is take care of cases where the *string* has
13.7v x #batteries, but individual batteries are well above this
(because others in the string aren't fully charged yet).
> But I'm worried about what higher voltage will do to my sealed batteries.
> <sigh> I guess there's no easily discernable answer, is there? We're
> all looking for the magic charging formula which will deliver maximum
> life, minimum charge time, and maximum equalization. And the thing is,
> the darn batteries are like little creatures - each battery - heck, each
> **cell** has its individual personality, strengths and weaknesses that
> you can't tell from the outside. Chemistry!
That is it exactly! Batteries are NOT all alike! They each have their
own unique characteristics.
Ultimately, you watch what they do. You learn what's normal, and what's
not. You *have* to overcharge them a little, as David Roden said, or you
will get imbalances between the cells within each battery. The "magic"
is in applying just enough overcharging to balance them, but not so much
that you overcharge and kill them early from grid corrosion or water
loss.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
I have the UniversalPowerGroup UB121100 AGMs,
12V 110Ah (80 Ah at 1 hour discharge rate).
Which has a size that almost perfectly matches two side-by-side
Hawkers, as they were OEM installed in my truck.
Only thing is that the battery needs to lie on its side
(which is an allowed configuration according the manufacturer)
but makes me require a little extra space next to the battery
for the wires and lugs, that is why each row holds one less
battery than original with the Hawkers (which have sunken
terminals and were connected with copper strips)
So I have an additional battery box with the last 4 behind the
rear axle. Having one string iso 2 keeps one of the major
headaches (balancing two strings during charge and discharge)
out of the equation for me.
BTW: voltages that I mentioned are all at room temp, higher temps
will get lower voltages.
Also I am charging below 10A, I have an AC drive so the occasional
hard braking puts over 100A back in the pack when they are below
80% SOC, so that wakes them up nicely if necessary.
I know floodeds need to be charged with a good current and vigorously
gassed from time to time, to break the stratification of the
electrolyte in the cells.
AGMs have their electrolyte captured in a glass mat, so I do not
think it moves around and needs to be woken up, but I am not sure.
People have rumoured that Hawkers need an occasional high charge
spike, such as given by the regeneration. My batteries do not
seem to mind it either.
I need to fix my truck (DC/DC is broken and since it's integrated
with the controller, I have my controller out - otherwise I could
simply charge my 12V accessory and still go) and I have been
travelling for 6 weeks, so I am eager to get it on the road again
and continue my test of the "cheap Chinese" solution.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: String equalization and lifetime, was: Taurus EV
Cor van de Water wrote:
> [to Lee] What voltage do you charge your batteries to avoid the
> grid corrosion caused by too high (equalization) charge that is
> not necessary due to the electronic equalization?
My charger is set up to put back 100% of the amphours removed at a bulk
charge rate of 5-10 amps; at this point the batteries will be at around
14.4v. Then the charger holds the voltage constant and lets the current
taper down to 0.5 amps at 14.8v (per 12v battery), or a timer shuts it
off after two hours.
The zener-lamp regulators are on it at the moment; so in fact a battery
at 14.8v gets only 0.1 amps (the other 0.4 amps is going thru the
regulator).
Once or twice a month, I continue charging on "high" (about 1-2 amps
with no voltage limit) for an extra 1-2 hours to equalize.
These are Concorde AGMs, which don't seem to mind these lower charging
rates. I don't think I'd charge Hawkers at these low bulk currents, and
would do my finishing charge at a higher rate on Optimas.
> I have always charged my AGMs with 2.28V/cell (13.7 per battery
> and 356V on a 312V pack) while occasionally (once a month) increased
> voltage to 385V (14.8V per battery, 2.47V per cell) but only kept it
> there until the current dropped to about 1A, which usually happened
> within 1/2 hour from the state of float-charging at 356V.
> Note that I used this increased voltage with a fixed 2A limit
> to limit gassing as the recombiners should be able to keep up
> with the amount of gas produced at that current in my 110 Ah
> batteries.
That sounds reasonable. What kind of batteries?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> "Justafiable motorcide" he he, I like it, I guess wayland and rudmen
> are competeing for the "justifiable battricide" award. ;-)
I think the term is battitude.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Jul 2006 at 23:15, BFRListmail wrote:
> I'm toying with the idea of stepping out of the low voltage bikes, and into a
> drag car. Probably a Chevy Vega, Chevy Monza, Mazda RX7, something along
> those
> lines.
I know nothing of racing, fueled either by gasoline or by electrons, but I
have to say that the list above puzzles me. I just can't imagine a Monza,
let alone a Vega, even mentioned in the same breath with an RX-7. Is there
something special about these GM products that I'm ignorant of?
Nor do I recall seeing any EV conversions of Vegas or Monzas since - well,
since ever. Not even back in the 1970s. Pinto, yes; Chevettes, yes; but
never a Vega. Heck, here in the midwest, most of the Vegas rusted out so
fast that nobody would have had time to convert one!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
At 04:34 PM 7/8/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did you say the Sparrow burned? I have followed your sparrow for some time
and I hope that's not the case.
Hmm, I forgot to announce it on this list.
Thursday night my shop burned. Completely. Both Sparrows,
motorhome, pickup truck, all Battery Monitor and BMS parts, supplies,
LiIon and NiCd cells, and equipment was all completely
destroyed. Who knows how much the insurance will cover.
No known cause, but the motorhome is suspected.
Pictures and videos at http://www.casadelgato.com/ShopFire/ShopFire.html
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope, its all about the same between work and home. I figured that as the
battery loses capacity its internal resistance goes up.
With a higher internal resistance I'm wasting more heat into the batteries at
lower state of charge than at higher state of
charge. For the same power draw as the battery sag gets worse, the I^squared
goes up as well as the battery internal R. So the
efficiency with a full pack should be better than with a depleted pack. Would
it not be this pronounced between say, 10 mile
trips and 30 mile trips, with 40 miles being the 80% DOD?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
>Cor van de Water wrote:
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:13 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Whr/mile
>
>
> Mike,
>
> What is the terrain between 5 and 15 miles away from your house?
> The only way I can explain the increase of consumption PER MILE
> is that on trips of more than 10 miles you get into hills or
> hard accel and frequent stops, or high-speed freeway driving,
> while below 10 miles you are on residential streets?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scary fire, everyone beings find is most important.
Sorry to hear for your loss John, i hope insurance will make all necessary
to help you pass over this bad time fast.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Burned Motor
> At 04:34 PM 7/8/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Did you say the Sparrow burned? I have followed your sparrow for some
time
> >and I hope that's not the case.
>
> Hmm, I forgot to announce it on this list.
> Thursday night my shop burned. Completely. Both Sparrows,
> motorhome, pickup truck, all Battery Monitor and BMS parts, supplies,
> LiIon and NiCd cells, and equipment was all completely
> destroyed. Who knows how much the insurance will cover.
> No known cause, but the motorhome is suspected.
>
> Pictures and videos at http://www.casadelgato.com/ShopFire/ShopFire.html
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here they are. Hope they provide some insight. Keep in mind that my pack
voltage is 192V. At the simulated lower motor voltages
my pack voltage does not sag that low and allows the motor to operate at its
current limit pretty much much all the time. If your
pack votage is the same as your motor voltage limits, then when your controller
is at 100 duty cycle, you will be voltage limited
on your battery side.
http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chet Fields
> Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:30 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Controller Simulations (Was RE: FasTrack 0-60 mph Data)
>
>
>
> --- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was thinking about running some simulations with several settings lower
> > Are there any specific limit points anyone would want to see?
> > One would have to keep in mind these comparisons would be to a 4000 lb
> > vehicle.
>
> I wouldn't mind seeing 144v or 120v @ 300-400 Amps. I already have a 4000lb
> vehicle with 18 floodeds @ 108 v and have my controller set to pull no more
> than about 300 amps. Although it has some capacitors in it to give it a little
> boost to about 400 for a few seconds (At least I'm pretty sure).
>
> I would be curious to see if that makes much more difference in accel times to
> 30 and 45 mph. I guess to see if you could also safely merge on most freeways
> at about 65mph too.
>
> Thanks,
> Chet
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
Chevy Vegas, and to a lesser extent, the Monza, are quite popular in ICE
drag racing. Simple really. You take a 70's car that GM thought was an
econo, high mileage, import fighter. Remove the 4 cylinder. Stuff in the
biggest small block chevy you can find with little modifications. Go
racing. There aren't a lot of RWD economy cars out there.
I guess I'm less familiar with the RX-7, but it seems to fit in the same
weight/size category, and I've seen them converted to chevy powered drag
cars.
Darin
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: Automatic transmission viable for drag racing
> On 8 Jul 2006 at 23:15, BFRListmail wrote:
>
> > I'm toying with the idea of stepping out of the low voltage bikes, and
into a
> > drag car. Probably a Chevy Vega, Chevy Monza, Mazda RX7, something
along those
> > lines.
>
> I know nothing of racing, fueled either by gasoline or by electrons, but I
> have to say that the list above puzzles me. I just can't imagine a Monza,
> let alone a Vega, even mentioned in the same breath with an RX-7. Is
there
> something special about these GM products that I'm ignorant of?
>
> Nor do I recall seeing any EV conversions of Vegas or Monzas since - well,
> since ever. Not even back in the 1970s. Pinto, yes; Chevettes, yes; but
> never a Vega. Heck, here in the midwest, most of the Vegas rusted out so
> fast that nobody would have had time to convert one!
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
Look's good. One thing is not to rush the installation. I started my second EV
in 1978 and took a year to to the design work.
Took a year to design and build a new dash and console.
Two years to make the hatch back.
Another year to do the suspension.
A year to do the body work and paint.
A year or so to do all new wiring and EV installation.
Then I change and redo several things, because I went to fast on some things
and had time to think about it.
I did not do any test rolling until 1985.
Modified and change things several times, which is a on going process.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 10:39 PM
Subject: Protecting the zilla
I had allowed water to get to my Zila and Otmar had to fix it. SO, I am
trying to rearrange under the hood and get the electronics into a box.
I made lots of progress today and took some pictures. Hopefully there is
enough of good ideas to offset the "why did he do that" ?.
cvevs.jfs-tech.com under heading "putting the zilla in a box" are these
5 pictures
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00144.jpg<http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00144jpg>
titled Mmmm, bussbars
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00145.jpg<http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00145jpg>
Pump and resivoir
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00146.jpg<http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00146jpg>
Closeup of pump, this is a
swiftech MCP 350, may be too small
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00147.jpg<http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00147jpg>
Water cooled vicor
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00148.jpg<http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00148jpg>
on to the radiator
I was getting worried, things just weren't going right, but they started
to come togather today.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff
Looks great. I'll be doing the same thing soon, so it's great to see others
examples. Needless to
say, I've got lot's of questions. Here are just the first few that come to
mind. No complaints,
it's all good.
Looks like you're using aluminum, are you riveting the box together, or
welding? Where will you
put the hairball? Have you got you're contactors in there? Did you make the
fuse holder or buy it?
Are you going to move some air for cooling through the box? Whqat are you using
to liquid cool the
Vicor, i.e. the backing plate (home made or bought?)
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had allowed water to get to my Zila and Otmar had to fix it. SO, I am
> trying to rearrange under the hood and get the electronics into a box.
>
> I made lots of progress today and took some pictures. Hopefully there is
> enough of good ideas to offset the "why did he do that" ?.
>
> cvevs.jfs-tech.com under heading "putting the zilla in a box" are these
> 5 pictures
>
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00144.jpg titled Mmmm, bussbars
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00145.jpg Pump and resivoir
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00146.jpg Closeup of pump, this is a
> swiftech MCP 350, may be too small
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00147.jpg Water cooled vicor
> http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00148.jpg on to the radiator
>
> I was getting worried, things just weren't going right, but they started
> to come togather today.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob, Tony, All
As far as the motor goes it is hard to say. They do burn armatures in bake
out ovens to get the left over copper and insulation out before rewinding them,
but it's a controlled thing. I had an interesting talk with an armature guy a
while back who started talking about heat damaging the laminations on the
armature body. He stated if super heated they lost thier ability to function
properly. I wasn't totally convinced and it ended up sounding like tech (BS)
to keep from having to warranty it on top of getting more money for a new core,
lmao! Now if we are talking a super heated shaft, then I'd say there is a good
chance that the temper of the metal could be in fact compromized. These shafts
are not that hard to begin with but...
With that said it's hard to generalize and say yes or no as to whether a
motor is still rebuildable after a fire. Like Bob said you're looking at an
armature wind with comm probably for sure (on top of replacing all the soft
brush assy guts), Hmmm, might be a good test subject for my Kevlar comm
banding. Band that charcoaled marshmellow and rev it up for some interesting
data on the Kevlar, hehehe. Sorry to joke, but it's that or cry right?? If
in fact the field coils survived, and the motor isn't a pile of goo so to speak
there actually might be hope to save some money on rebuilding it. On a worst
case, I'd keep any end plates and such that might be still whole as I've heard
of people damaging thiers and at least something would live on. I'm truely
sorry to hear about your loss. I hope all goes well for you soon, and you'll
be announcing the births of new EV's soon.
I see there's been another fire (what a bitch!) and I will copy this posting
to the "burned motor" thread rather than hoping John L.will see this here.
Best wishes
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi EVerybody;
Time for a Tony Ascrizzi update. Shoulda posted LAST week. I have been up to
Tony's a few times in the last few weaks. The good news, first. I sorta wen't
off half cocked before, about the Dump Truck Runaway. Basing my Post on only
what I had heard from the news broadcast and talking to Tony on the fone. Turns
out the Construction co DID have some insurance! Good News, and they wanna
settle up! YES! When I was up at Tony's he had a constant flow of just PEOPLE,
in suits, perusing the wreckage, with cameras and clipboards. People from the
City of Wooster(Worcester)and almost EVERYwhere! People would just drive by,
stop, and gawk, both on Payne Street and the embankment above, as the trees and
fences were swept away, it is barren now. A green dumpster sits up top,
overlooking Tony's recreation of the World Trade Center scene. EVen SMELLS like
the WTC!The cleanup crew came in and scooped TONS of dirt away as well as
making neat piles of metal scrap, dead, melted motorcycles,!
tools and just STUFF. We dug some motors out of the wreckage, I think the Red
Beastie's motor and tranny are salvagable. we'll dig it out and roll it over
and drop them out. Tranny still clicks through the gears.I would imagine burnt
traction motor COULD be reserected by Warfield Electric?Question here, would
intense heat destroy the metal and magnetic properties of motors? They DO burn
dead motors to get the old insulation out anyhow? Jim? any ideas?I'm SURE
you're looking for and at a new Comm, for sure?
The fire COULD be a break for Tony? EVen though it wasn't for the poor truck
driver. He died of his inguries a few daze later. IF he get's a good lump
settlement from the Homeowners and Truk folks? He could take the money and run?
The 'hood there was going to hell, anyhow? You can hardly give away an old
house in an upcoming ghetto.YThey just don't " Total" out houses? one
Guesstimate to renovate or fix up the house ran 400k, that is an extreame, Hy
ball figure. House MAY be worth 100k, it could be subdivided into dozens of
rentable rooms for the illegal immigrant crowd? IOn that it would probably
sell? Tony's ready to move on. It is pretty depressing dealing with the City.
THEY want tio upgrade the house to current codes? This would cost a FORTUNE!
Think old gas light fixtures still around, in a house built in 1899! I woulda
thought that electricity was common in major cities in 1899? Worcester was a
major player in industrial America 100 years ago. EVen Pullman cars w!
ere BUILT there, right up to the 60's, electric ones for the Long Island RR.
These detaily things will hafta be hashed out in the next few weeks or months.
As the house has no electricity, but DUZ have water, still, damn city turned
off the GAS pretty quick.He can't LIVE there, still. A Temp Electric service
drop is being installed, but the City doesn't want it just hooked up, bring
everything up to code, bullshit. I can see Tony being diss-gruntled with the
City beauracracy! He HAS enough batteries in the cellar, hooked up that he
could run the UPstairs apartment , undamaged, for weeks IF he could get down
cellar to access the stuff down there. Tions of dirt, fast delivered by the
truck, have prevented access to the cellar. Tons of Tony's cool stuff SHOULD be
OK down there. Those of you who have been to the EAA Meetings there know what
the celler is like.The "Meeting Room" and good stuff EVerywhere. Controllers,
motors, cables, just STUFF we all can use.Should be OK? Sorta like opening up
those Egyptian Tombs after thousands of years.
Meanwile, out in the back yard, Tony had a few 'Conex" boxes for storage. The
20 foot shipping containers, you see everywhere. One just roasted all the tools
an' stuff inside! It didn't burn, steel is good that way, and they are of
robust construction. The other one was further away from the blaze. The Rabbit?
Yes! They, the insurance co is gunna FIX it. It is scorched on one side,
plastic mirror melded, all rubber gasketing and windshield cracked and
destroyed, but car still gioes! It is over at a friends place for now. It will
be a challange for the body shop for PARTS for sure! The news vids show the
damn firepeople climbing on it. Christ! If they just released the handbrake and
PUSHED it in the clear?Woulda saved some money and damage!?Probably woulda had
to bust a window to get in, but it would have been cheaper than fixing fire
damage!I have extra Rabbit windows that I havent thrown away..yet.
Any how that was an update. Stay tuned, more to follow EVentually.
Seeya
Bob
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