EV Digest 5696
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Want to build a sporty EV, AC is feasible too.
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: E-meter Companion
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Cap Based Battery Balancer
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Goldie Lives!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Want to build a sporty EV. Motor Mania
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV range vs. stored energy and weight
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: 2 motors vs 1 motor and a tranny
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Washington Post article
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Still holds true, even today I have this one, too.Fw: [78-l] Didn't Raise
My Son; was The Pain of War;
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Goldie Lives!Comments! Read an' Heed!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Still holds true, even today I have this one, too.Fw: [78-l] Didn't
Raise My Son; was The Pain of War;
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) AC, DC, BLDC Motors and controllers
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AC, DC, BLDC Motors and controllers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Want to build a sporty EV, AC is feasible too.
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Want to build a sporty EV
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Rich Rudman's PHEV project (?)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Happily. http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html It has done 11.5 seconds.
>
> The TZero hit low 13's with lead acid. With lithium it's a 12's car due
> to losing around 500lbs in lead weight. The only reason the Tzero can't
> do 11's is because of gearing. The way it's geared the motor has to be
> electronically limited to 90 mph. Add another gear with the same 150 kw
> and it hits 11's easily. The X1 has the same set up. The X1 and the
> T-zero have the distinct disadvantage of not having slicks. That would
> rocket the X1 into the 10's and under 2.9 second 0-60 times so said Ian
> Wright to me personally. All on 165kw. Don't forget they get their
> power from the volts too. 300-400 volts times 700 amps is up to 280kw
> peak, not sustained. I've personally watched the 100kw version sustain
> 400 amps at 336 volts. That's 135kw. These numbers are easily altered
> via the software.
>
Just think how much quicker they'd be with an AdvDC motor and a Z2K!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was just going over some old messages and saw this again:
On Jul 21, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
The E-Meter (a.k.a Link-10) is about $150 with shunt. With this setup,
you don't need their DC/DC or prescaler.
I meant to ask about this when it went by last time.
Where did you see that price? Is this for the version with the serial
port, which we need for the micro functions (right?)?
I'm seeing prices about double that. For example,
<http://www.infinigi.com/xantrex-link-choice-with-500-amp-shunt-p
-91.html>
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill,
Sorry but I fail to see how this would balance anything,
the Ultracap can make the Li-Ion battery a little stiffer
(like Victor and others did) and the resistors across
each battery (and capacitor) will add a more or less
constant current, comparable to the self-discharge.
But the current does not chage significantly with the
changes in voltage between and almost empty and full
battery, so there is no balancing in this setup, which
was where we started.
BTW: there is a way to reduce the resistive losses in
the "switched cap" balancer, but it requires some tweaking
of inductance and timing to get it right.
If the path from the battery to the capacitor, through the
switching FET, also has a series inductance then there is
no current spike charging the cap, but a gradual rise and
fall of current through the inductor.
This can even increase the effectivity of the switched
capacitor balancer, if the FET (could even be a TRIAC)
opens when the current becomes zero, because the inductance
has caused double the amount of voltage difference on the
cap, so twice the charge (current) is being passed every
switching.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Cap Based Battery Balancer
Other than cost, what would stop something simpler like the following from
working (I'm thinking specifically of Li-ion):
1) Put an Ultracapacitor in parallel with each cell.
2) Put a 1% resistor across each capacitor's terminals (ladder?).
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cap Based Battery Balancer
Lewis, Brian K wrote:
> That is an interesting thought. The document suggests that resistive
> losses are very low in this design.
People naively think that a flying capacitor balancer is "100%
efficient" because ideal capacitors have no resistance, and so have no
resistive losses.
However, real capacitors *do* have resistance, called ESR (Equivalent
Series Resistance). So do batteries. And so do whatever devices you use
to switch the capacitors between batteries. The sum of these resistances
forms the "R" of the RC circuit that is being used to transfer charge.
If you go through the numbers, or make careful measurements, you will
find that about half your power is dissipated in these resistances. It
doesn't matter how low you make these resistance; a lower resistance
makes the peak capacitor charging/discharging current higher, which
increase the power lost in the resistances according to I^2R. Halving
the resistance doubles the peak current, which produces 4 times the peak
power -- but the charge/discharge pulse lasts half as long; thus you
come right back to the same power loss!
We've kicked this around extensively in the past, so you may want to
check the archives for more information. As for me, I've built flying
capacitor circuits, and carefully measured their performance, and found
them wanting. The actual efficiency is poor, and the rate of charge
transfer is too low to be useful with affordably-sized parts.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ayup.. Goldie can still smoke'Em..
at 5 am it's off to Portland..
Man what a hassel.
I really don't want to do this.. But I promised Wayland.. And well that's about
all it takes.
I have about 10 chargers to make over 40 Regs to test..
And I am going racing....
I should be wireing and testing PiPrius Kits... teching and adding charge ports
to the Escape...
But NOoooo I am burning cash and fossil fuel to go racing in front of
Cameras...yet again...
Man what a messed up pack of AGMs.. Yukkk!! I am leaving the Charger and Regs
to deal with it all night.. Clearly I wouldn't dare do this without the
Regbuss hooked up. I would have 3 Regs that would be on fire by now if I didn't
have the safties wired in.
Darn she still is fun to play with... GeeZ .. I got her in What '92???
Need sleep.. morning is coming way too fast. Towing is part faith and part
preparedness... and I hope the two 8 MM highstrength bolts are good enough.
That's all that Keeps the Ranger and Goldie together.
Sleep for Madman, for in the Morn.. Plasma Boy... beccons... It would be nice
if I had some nasty trick done to the motor... but it's the same old 8
incher...sigh....
Madman
Race Mode ON.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, (or anyone who knows)
What was your best 1/4 mile time with the Z2K before you pulled the motor?
I see Netgain is now offering the WarP11 now with a Turbo400 shorty tailshaft
housing.
They're calling it the TransWarP11. It sure is cute.
They don't have pics posted...but Ryan does at www.evsource.com
Looks like they are targeting dragsters.
I wonder when they'll start knocking off John's Siamese creation?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of steve clunn
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Want to build a sporty EV. Motor Mania
Hi Bob and all
I got another video clip up on
http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm
of the Mit's when it had the 11 and 2k controller . The motor is now in the
Lamborghini , that Paul and I are rushing to get done but the 28 for the
wktec mover opening . , I sold the 2k controller to Paul , thinking I get
another soon :-( . Paul has it in his 959 Porsche , but hasn't had a
chance to open it up as the clutch won't take it . Lots going on at his
place , with two other orders . I was driving the truck around with a 1k
300v controller and it was like a different truck, no more tire burning in
4th , not even very good pick up for a stand start , once it get going it
dose ok , .
My lawn business has been hopping and the electric mower is doing good.
I'm seeing battery charging a little different , with many days doing close
to 10 charges a day. Most of my charges start at over 200 amps when I plug
the 120v truck into the 96v 8 orbital 50 in zero turn mower . The batteries
seem to get stronger with each charge and by the end of the day I can see a
big difference in how much grass I can cut on a charge. . Through the day
they get no finish charge , I plug then into the truck , finish the yard by
then they're over 14v , I pull the plug and on to the next.. I have
mark 2 regs on then and a 10 position switch that I can switch around and
look at each battery's voltage . Voltage differences seem to get better
through the day , when I finish today they where all within .05 of a volt ,
I often think while charging my mower , that this could just as easy be a
car , hour 10 charges and 25 miles on a charge , that's 250 miles .with just
2 hours of recharging time . Would work of me .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Want to build a sporty EV. Motor Mania
> Hi Ray;
>
> Just a few quick thoughts. Rather than two motors, go with one BIG
> motor!
> A Warp 11 incher. Now THAT'S power to torque about!I drove Steve Clunn's
> direct drive, well, he just left the truk in 4th, and away you go, tires
> screaming!! He was running a 240 volt Optima or were they Orbitals pack? I
> think he if fitting that motor in something like ya have in mind? A sporty
> thing. Only challenge with that big ass motor in a FWD car it may just not
> FIT! A RWD with a driveshaft makes it easier, it will go where the tranny
> hump is/was .RX-7 FWD or RWD?One advantage of keeping the tranny is not
> having to buy reverse contacters. Steve might chime in on this one? But
> when
> ya see how well direct drive cars work, White Zombie, Gone Postal, Acela
> Express, to mention a few, subways and lite rail guyz swear by it! EV-1
> had
> the coolist gear noise. I'm SURE General Murders coulda made a silent
> gearbox, but that wouldn't be any fun! Like Harley Davidson, they were
> leasing the SOUND, too! Like they say in the Hummer ads:" Like Nothing
> Else" THAT woulda been a perfect EV-1 ad line!!!
>
> OK that's my two motors worth.
>
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:37 PM
> Subject: Want to build a sporty EV
>
>
>> Hello list members.
>>
>> My third EV project will be a sports car. I am finally getting past
> the design and seach for cheap parts stage and now have to make some
> choices. I welcome any suggestions or comments from the experienced
> members
> of the list.
>>
>> I want to build a sporty EV that looks great, goes fast, goes far. OK
> stop laughing.
>>
>> Here is what I am working with:
>>
>> 1988 RX7 Gen 2 Turbo - has a great body, new paint, disks all around,
>> 5
> speed, dead engine. Nice looking car. Cda of about 5.95
>>
>> Choice of twin motors
>> - Two Prestolite 4001 twin shaft. These can easily be coupled with a
> spline coupler.
>> - Two ADC 203-06-4001M single shaft. These could be belt/chain
>> coupled
> or sent to Jim to add some tandem magic.
>>
>> Choice on tranny
>> - existing RX7 5 speed. Likely need a race clutch. Rear end?
>> - Powerglide 2 speed set up for drag racing manual shift
>> I will need to make an adapter plate depending on the setup.
>>
>> Controller
>>
>> Zilla 2K 300 V if Otmar will return my email so I can get it ordered.
>> Parallel/Series switching option
>>
>> Batteries
>>
>> I am thinking of a hybrid battery pack using Hawkers for punch and NiMH
> for range. I have some used M-95 NiMh packs from a Ranger EV, tested good
> to +80AH. I replace a few of the weaker cells.
>> This is the same type of configuration I used on my EZE sports bike.
>> The
> Hawkers act like big capacitors.
>>
>> I was thinking of a 192V system with 16 Odyssey 16AH pb (3.1kwh) plus
>> 16
> M-95 NiMh (18.2kwh). Total pack weight 896 lbs. Estimated range of
> 70-100
> miles.
>>
>> Guestimate on vehicle weight is 3200- 3300 lbs. That only leaves me
>> 350
> lbs to max GVWR of 3635.
>>
>> Questions to the group:
>>
>> 1) Will the 8" ADC give me a whole lot more than the smaller 7.25"
> Prestolite. The Presolite is an easy tandem setup. I would need to send
> the ADC to Jim at Hi-Torque. Jim, pm me with how much?
>> 2) The Powerglide is great for drag racing but is a 5 speed better for
> mostly street use. I want to be able to do a burn out and maybe give some
> friends a good first impression of an EV. Edmonton is mostly flat.
>> 3) Has anyone else had success with a hybrid battery pack. The biggest
> complaint is the complexity of the BMS/charger setup.
>> 4) Should I go higher on pack voltage. 240V?. GWVR weight becomes an
> issue. Pack would be over 1100lbs
>> 5) Given the above, can I hope to see a 13 second quarter. What chould
> I change/add to make it faster.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Ray Wong
>> Ezesport
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi all
in case the list has rejected my first message the gist is i
analyzed the evs at austinev.org and found
range[km]~250*battery_capacity[kWh]/weight[kg]^0.6
graphs demonstrating this are posted at the yahoo archive site
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/photos/browse/b2ca
all of you who are running ecars now are invited to send me the details
so i can add to the db, i would need
gross vehicle weight
range (e.g. to 50% dod and 80%dod)
battery amp-hr (e.g. at average current), volts, how many, what kind, batt
weight
and if you have them the aero coeff. Cp and projected area A
incidentally you can find these if you have a sction of hill with known and
fixed inclination and a stopwatch
On Jul 28, 2006, at 5:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> whoops i left off the constant in my range equation - should read
>>
>> range[km] = 250 * battery_capacity[kWh] / weight[kg]^0.6
>That's very interesting!
>
>Do you have any of the raw data or graphs on the web? I'm curious to
>see how close the formula fits the data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All -
I appreciate the input. I think the absolute cincher was the "no reverse
gear" comment, no to mention the loads of additional work, etc....definitely
not something to take on for one's first conversion. I'll stick to my Warp
9 in the truck - if I get a hankering for more performance, maybe I'll
replace the Warp 9 with an 11 or 13..
Again, thanks for all the input!
Mike
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 2 motors vs 1 motor and a tranny
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:10:09 +1000
Hi,
What about how a gearbox provides a form of mechanical safety disconnect in
case something silly happens in the drive system.
Cheers
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: 2 motors vs 1 motor and a tranny
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:19:34 -0700
Michael Mohlere wrote:
> Am I missing something?
I think you've summed up the pros fairly well, here are a few cons:
- the stock tranny provides a means of connecting the motors to the
driveshaft/rear end; removing it means you may have to design something
yourself and pay for custom machinework to build it.
- you will need to provide some means of coupling the 2 motors together;
even if you find an off-the-shelf coupler from an industrial supplier,
this is another additional cost.
- the stock tranny provides reverse gear; without it you need to invest
in reversing contactor(s) to electrically reverse the motor(s) - this is
another few to several hundred dollars additional cost.
- the stock tranny largely provides a means of mounting/locating the
motor(s); removing it means you will need to design/fabricate some
custom mounts to support/locate the motor(s), instead of just a fairly
simple mount to support the weight of the single motor (and both the
adapter plate and motor bracket(s) for a single motor S10 conversion
with tranny are available off-the-shelf from EV parts suppliers).
- you may need to run a higher pack voltage than you would have
otherwise in order to maximise the benefit of series/parallel switching
(the higher the voltage, the longer you can run in series mode "low
gear")
The two motor approach is definitely an interesting option; the cons can
probably be summed up as additional cost and additional custom
fabrication required to perform the conversion.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
_________________________________________________________________
Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F833884&_t=54321&_r=hotmail_endtext&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know there are a few of you out there with info on these trucks. My question
is about the batteries. There is one up for sale on the EV Tradin' Post (very
close to where I live). So, I looked into it. I'm still not clear. The thing
is 312 V right? He said something about 26 batteries and then something about
52 batteries. Does the truck have two strings of batteries in it?
Bottom line, the batteries in that thing are probably worthless. It charges
up and will run a few miles or so, but it needs a new pack. I'm trying to
figure out what the best battery solution (in terms of cost) is for a truck
like that. I'm thinking the battery issue is going to make the thing cost
prohibitive. But, I thought I'd ask anyway.
Steve
Atlanta, GA
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Rothenberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:35 AM
Subject: Washington Post article
>
> I can't remember if this has been mentioned here.
> My cousin sent me a link...
>
> There's a very negative article on washingtonpost.com about
> the Tesla Roadster. I made two comments (spot them if you can :-)
> The comments outweigh the article, if people read them at all.
>
>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/21/AR2006072101515.html?referrer=emailarticle
>
> OR
>
> http://tinyurl.com/fln8z
>
> Thanks Seth for the Link. I went there and sed my piece. There were
some good posts, go there and ad yours!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: [78-l] Didn't Raise My Son; was The Pain of War; was Bob Atcher
Sobbing + The Laughing Record + ethnic , Uncle Dave M
> A while back I mounted a copy at archive.org of a Peerless Quartet version
of "Didn't raise my son to be a soldier." You can listen to it here:
>
>
http://www.archive.org/details/Peerless_Quartet_I_Didnt_Raise_My_Boy_To_Be_A_Soldier_78RPM_Dec._1914
>
> [On a related note: is there anyone who has successfully UL'ed to the
Internet Archive's "78 RPMs" list? I ended up putting this in the "Open
Source Audio" section 'cause I couldn't figure out how to drop it in with
the 78s.]
>
> - Jim Kuhn
>
> steven c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> > Speaking of crying, what are the best-done 78s depicting the pain of
war -
> > soldiers, their families, and civilians - among all those Columbias,
> Victors,
> > and Emersons, etc.?
> >
> Sadly, there probably weren't any! During wars, suggesting anything
> negative about them is considered "unpatriotic" and vaguely treasonous...
> and as for "the enemy," it was pretty well assumed that they dommed well
> deserved everything that happened to them!
>
> There was, of course, "I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be a Soldier" (which was
> popular in the not-at-war US until 1917, and suddenly disappeared
> thereafter)
> as well as any number of "after the fact" accounts, usually written by
> left-wingish (or so considered) folksingers. I recall one (but not the
> correct title) of Australian origin and based on "When Johnny Comes
> Marching Home"...no idea when it was popular, though...
>
> ...stevenc
> http://users.interlinks.net/stevenc/
>
> -------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, see http://www.78online.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 3:28 AM
Subject: Goldie Lives!
>
> Ayup.. Goldie can still smoke'Em..
>
> at 5 am it's off to Portland..
> Man what a hassel.
> I really don't want to do this.. But I promised Wayland.. And well that's
about all it takes.
>>
> Need sleep.. morning is coming way too fast. Towing is part faith and part
preparedness... and I hope the two 8 MM highstrength bolts are good enough.
That's all that Keeps the Ranger and Goldie together.
Snip-A-Bit
> Rich and everybody else Make GODAMN sure the towing rig is good!!Maybe
wrap some duct tape around those bolts!! Had I, I would still have my
faithful Rabbit!!Failure of any of this stuff isn't an option!
Happy Motoring!
Bob,......... Rabbitless in CT.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey! Sorry guyz! Wrong List!A fraudian slip of the keybored!I 'm on the
78 rpm RECORD List, too. Not much to do with EV's here!And to chec WHERE yur
E mail is going!. I meant this one to another RR guy.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: Still holds true, even today I have this one, too.Fw: [78-l] Didn't
Raise My Son; was The Pain of War;
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:22 AM
> Subject: [78-l] Didn't Raise My Son; was The Pain of War; was Bob Atcher
> Sobbing + The Laughing Record + ethnic , Uncle Dave M
>
>
> > A while back I mounted a copy at archive.org of a Peerless Quartet
version
> of "Didn't raise my son to be a soldier." You can listen to it here:
> >
> >
>
http://www.archive.org/details/Peerless_Quartet_I_Didnt_Raise_My_Boy_To_Be_A_Soldier_78RPM_Dec._1914
> >
> > [On a related note: is there anyone who has successfully UL'ed to the
> Internet Archive's "78 RPMs" list? I ended up putting this in the "Open
> Source Audio" section 'cause I couldn't figure out how to drop it in with
> the 78s.]
> >
> > - Jim Kuhn
> >
> > steven c <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > > Speaking of crying, what are the best-done 78s depicting the pain of
> war -
> > > soldiers, their families, and civilians - among all those Columbias,
> > Victors,
> > > and Emersons, etc.?
> > >
> > Sadly, there probably weren't any! During wars, suggesting anything
> > negative about them is considered "unpatriotic" and vaguely
treasonous...
> > and as for "the enemy," it was pretty well assumed that they dommed well
> > deserved everything that happened to them!
> >
> > There was, of course, "I Didn't Raise My Boy To Be a Soldier" (which was
> > popular in the not-at-war US until 1917, and suddenly disappeared
> > thereafter)
> > as well as any number of "after the fact" accounts, usually written by
> > left-wingish (or so considered) folksingers. I recall one (but not the
> > correct title) of Australian origin and based on "When Johnny Comes
> > Marching Home"...no idea when it was popular, though...
> >
> > ...stevenc
> > http://users.interlinks.net/stevenc/
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, see http://www.78online.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I've got the same truck.
It was originally equipped with Hawkers. Two strings of 26 batts, in
parallel, totalling 52. 26 x 12 = 312v. Hawkers are a bit on the short
side. The box is designed to take nothing higher than 7.0000 inches. So
it limits the replacement options. A new Hawker pack is way too pricey.
$5k-$7k.
Cor is trying a 110ah Universal brand AGM type battery. Easily found on
the web. Problem is he had to fab a second battery box under the bed to
fit all 26. I'm trying Nimh. Chris is trying flooded nicads. So we are
all trying to find something better and cheaper than Hawkers.
Flooded batts are too tall. AGM's work ok. Gels work ok in the
Solectria trucks. I just don't know anyone personally that has tried
gels in a USE truck. Both brands of trucks pull the same amperage so
gels could work. Automotive batterys will not work at all. Basically
they need to be deep cycle/marine in an AGM or gel.
I would recommend that what ever battery you end up chosing that you go
with only 26 in one single string. Two long strings in parallel require
quite the battery management and monitoring system. So pick the highest
amphour battery that will fit.
Then there is another learning curve reguarding a battery management
system.
If the truck runs then you are miles ahead. They have a couple fixes
that need to be installed to prevent catastrophic circuit board
failure. Contact me if you do end up with the truck to discuss this.
Mike
mikep_95133 at yahoo.com
--- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know there are a few of you out there with info on these trucks.
> My question is about the batteries. There is one up for sale on the
> EV Tradin' Post (very close to where I live). So, I looked into it.
> I'm still not clear. The thing is 312 V right? He said something
> about 26 batteries and then something about 52 batteries. Does the
> truck have two strings of batteries in it?
>
> Bottom line, the batteries in that thing are probably worthless.
> It charges up and will run a few miles or so, but it needs a new
> pack. I'm trying to figure out what the best battery solution (in
> terms of cost) is for a truck like that. I'm thinking the battery
> issue is going to make the thing cost prohibitive. But, I thought
> I'd ask anyway.
>
> Steve
> Atlanta, GA
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My understanding:
The primary advantage of AC motor is that it runs on AC!
They are simpler and less expensive.
Seems the opposite of a DC-powered performance-over-cost vehicle.
I would think a brushless DC (BLDC) motor would be the best choice.
However, I have not seen large BLDC motors, I suspect because they are
relatively expensive when scaled up. They are the motor of choice for
scale model vehicles.
I'm working with a 4" BLDC for the outboard motor project. I've
considered stacking and clustering them to make a bigger motor, it would
not be an inexpensive solution.
A significant issue is the controller and its losses. A DC controller
is very simple, a BLDC controller is not, I suspect an AC controller is
even more complicated.
BTW, I've got 5 electric cars, one of them is even a gas conversion,
they just happen to be 1/10 the scale of a full size car. :)
Jack
Wayne wrote:
I have several stepper motors very similar to that for a CNC project of my
own.
I was thinking more along a motor design like the "outrunners" that are
very
popular with the R/C aircraft folks.
http://www.hackerbrushless.com/motors_a60.shtml
Seems you could build a low enough RPM motor if you used something like a
14" diameter version and feed direct into the tire. I'll play around a bit
more.
What I do not want to tackle is the design and construction of a
controller.
Is there a selection of controllers for brushless/sensorless motor designs?
I have not found any yet. I have found some that sound interesting, but can
not confirm if they actually would work. Seems the low RPM stuff is odd
these days..?
Thanks for the input!
-Wayne
On 7/28/06, Arthur W. Matteson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is anyone playing with brushless motors as a hub motor?
My Solar Car Team is using a New Generation Motors 10kW unit for the
rear-drive of a three-wheel vehicle. We haven't mounted it yet, though.
The motor was $8000 originally, and the controller about $4000. Somehow
the motor got damaged, even though we've never had a car, so it took a
few hundred dollars to get back to where we started. I wouldn't
recommend this company, personally...I think they're inexperienced. The
controller is acceptable but complicated, and the motor wiring is
sloppy. The motor does include an air-gap adjustment knob.
> I'm toying with the idea of playing with these for a proof on concept
for a
> full scale project, so any info would be great.
I have the perfect thing for that:
http://www.brigarelectronics.com/
Click on motors, then find "4118s-62-07" which is a "1.8 deg 24vdc step
motor" for only $4.95!
I ordered six of these for my homebuilt CNC mill's axes. They have a
lot of torque and produce *beautiful* sine waves when they're driven, 90
degrees out of phase. This is basically identical to something you
could spend a lot more money for. I would *strongly* suggest it for
anyone who wants to try brushless-DC at a low RPM. Inquire if you want
more details.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Jul 2006 at 9:25, Jack Murray wrote:
> The primary advantage of AC motor is that it runs on AC!
Lee hart has pointed out several times here that ALL motors run on AC. Some
have external inverters; others have the inverter inside the motor. Of the
latter category, examples are brushless DC fans (tiny circuit inside) and
brushed DC motors the brushes and commutator are the inverter).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
to: Mike phillips
i just got an USE 1994 s-10
i can't take off the bed till i make a gate in back yard/alley
to get truck in back yard its too hot here this week 115
to be digging fencepost holes
so its not charging
i'm looking for the charger
is it under the bed??
? controller for charger in inverter box?
can't get to till above work is done to take bed off
plug cord goes into tool box in bed
bypasses, transformer thats in tool box for drop voltage 240 to 208v?
behind seat is a transducer
plug in 240v read no amps at wires in transformer
no voltage or amps at transduceer
hear a click under bed, unplug clicks again
guy i bought from knows less than me
said charged inermintly if left on for a week charged up
at shop,took home wouldn't charge overnight
he said has deka battries in i think
i left his shop,had 390v drove home 12 miles now at 330v
so if has 26 battries i'm at 12.69 v per battery?
ok to sit for a while?
with out hurting batteries?
is very nice truck first EV i have driven on freeway!!!!
at 60 mph and70 mph wowie!!
thanks
Marco Michon Fresno,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
where the Sierra Nevada mountians are hidden (smog)
EVmc http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
Hi Steve,
I've got the same truck.
It was originally equipped with Hawkers. Two strings of 26 batts, in
parallel, totalling 52. 26 x 12 = 312v. Hawkers are a bit on the short
side. The box is designed to take nothing higher than 7.0000 inches. So
it limits the replacement options. A new Hawker pack is way too pricey.
$5k-$7k.
Cor is trying a 110ah Universal brand AGM type battery. Easily found on
the web. Problem is he had to fab a second battery box under the bed to
fit all 26. I'm trying Nimh. Chris is trying flooded nicads. So we are
all trying to find something better and cheaper than Hawkers.
Flooded batts are too tall. AGM's work ok. Gels work ok in the
Solectria trucks. I just don't know anyone personally that has tried
gels in a USE truck. Both brands of trucks pull the same amperage so
gels could work. Automotive batterys will not work at all. Basically
they need to be deep cycle/marine in an AGM or gel.
I would recommend that what ever battery you end up chosing that you go
with only 26 in one single string. Two long strings in parallel require
quite the battery management and monitoring system. So pick the highest
amphour battery that will fit.
Then there is another learning curve reguarding a battery management
system.
If the truck runs then you are miles ahead. They have a couple fixes
that need to be installed to prevent catastrophic circuit board
failure. Contact me if you do end up with the truck to discuss this.
Mike
mikep_95133 at yahoo.com
--- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I know there are a few of you out there with info on these trucks.
My question is about the batteries. There is one up for sale on the
EV Tradin' Post (very close to where I live). So, I looked into it.
I'm still not clear. The thing is 312 V right? He said something
about 26 batteries and then something about 52 batteries. Does the
truck have two strings of batteries in it?
Bottom line, the batteries in that thing are probably worthless.
It charges up and will run a few miles or so, but it needs a new
pack. I'm trying to figure out what the best battery solution (in
terms of cost) is for a truck like that. I'm thinking the battery
issue is going to make the thing cost prohibitive. But, I thought
I'd ask anyway.
Steve
Atlanta, GA
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 05:18:21AM -0000, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> > Happily. http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html It has done 11.5 seconds.
<..snip..>
>
> Just think how much quicker they'd be with an AdvDC motor and a Z2K!
I realize you're being sarcastic. But is this true?
I've not heard this really resolved. I've talked to people in the know about
this, and they've indicated that the ACPs power to weight ratio was the best
currently available. I realize now thinking back on the conversation, that
they may have been only considering AC motors when making this comment.
I've talked to a few people trying to make high performance EVs for sale, and
they seem to laugh of the idea of using a DC motor.
The consensus on this list seems to be that DC is better for performance.
So, if you put an ADC 9" and a Z2K in the X1, would it be faster or slower?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I'm running the stock five speed in the RX-7, and this is the second one,
as my son bent the shifting mechanism on his first trip to the drag strip!
When we were in line for a time trial a guy suggested slicks instead of the
stock street tires we run, and I said no, because the electric motor would
just break something! The later turbo RX-7 had a better tranny and
rear-end, around 1982 or 1983 I think. As Rod said, even with a 1000 amp
controller the eelectric motor is hard on the drive-train. Something to
plan for...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>We would routinly twist off transmission output shafts on our Gen 1 "Maniac
>Mazda" running only a 1000 amp controller. I would be checking to make sure
>the Gen 2 had beefed up the output shaft if you intend to use a tranny.
>Remember that the quickest street bodied car in the world used a tranny and
>that was with the motors only seeing slightly over 100 volts. Something to
>think about.
>
>Roderick Wilde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see your plan with lead-acid. Basically a "feeder" pack for the
existing Prius pack using a DC-DC converter. Good idea. Should work
well if you top up the lead-acid on a regular basis.
As I said, for a short-term, low cost, low lifespan solution,
lead-acid can work. Most folks don't want that in a Prius. Some folks
will, however, and that is where your market will be.
I have an earlier spec sheet for the A123 cells. You are likely
correct on the 4000 cycles. They lose about 10% capacity for every
2000 cycles. Thus, they might last as much as 10,000 cycles if you
are willing to live with 50% capacity. These cells have done better
than the spec sheets for everything I have tested, (but I haven't
personally tested cycle life.) For a 100,000 mile battery pack, these
are a good choice.
If low cost is the prime goal, then "road flare" type Li-Ion laptop
cells (18650) are quite tempting, if you are very careful with the
BMS and are willing to put up with the possibility of a pack fire. If
you buy in very large lots, directly from the manufacturer, you can
get about 3 W-hrs per dollar. This is on par with the smaller,
high-quality AGM lead-acid batteries. Of course, you have to add in
the BMS, but you have to do that anyway with a plug-in hybrid,
regardless of the type of battery you choose. When you consider cycle
life, there really is not much motivation to go with lead-acid, other
than initial cost.
Of course, big flooded lead-acid are the cheapest per W-hr, but I
can't imagine those in a Prius.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Marco and Steve!
Mike and I will be happy to answer all your questions on this
list, but you might want to register at our Yahoo group for the
US Electricar, there you will also find lots of files that
specify parts of the vehicle and where many other USE owners
hang out:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
To answer your question about the charging:
If your pack is at 330V then its pretty full still,
no problem to have it sit for a while.
The 390V must have been _while charging_ as there is
no way to have a battery sit at 15V.
When my pack is fully charged it rests at 342V at the
current temps (about 90).
Have you tried charging at 110V?
You seriously should not try to bypass the 240V -> 208V
transformer, or you will eventually be blowing up your charger
as there is enough experience with that already.
In our Yahoo group we have experts on debugging and repairing
the boards that have this kind of damage.
The charger is part of the Dolphin controller under the hood.
See you in the group!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Marc Michon
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:47 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
to: Mike phillips
i just got an USE 1994 s-10
i can't take off the bed till i make a gate in back yard/alley
to get truck in back yard its too hot here this week 115
to be digging fencepost holes
so its not charging
i'm looking for the charger
is it under the bed??
? controller for charger in inverter box?
can't get to till above work is done to take bed off
plug cord goes into tool box in bed
bypasses, transformer thats in tool box for drop voltage 240 to 208v?
behind seat is a transducer
plug in 240v read no amps at wires in transformer
no voltage or amps at transduceer
hear a click under bed, unplug clicks again
guy i bought from knows less than me
said charged inermintly if left on for a week charged up
at shop,took home wouldn't charge overnight
he said has deka battries in i think
i left his shop,had 390v drove home 12 miles now at 330v
so if has 26 battries i'm at 12.69 v per battery?
ok to sit for a while?
with out hurting batteries?
is very nice truck first EV i have driven on freeway!!!!
at 60 mph and70 mph wowie!!
thanks
Marco Michon Fresno,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
where the Sierra Nevada mountians are hidden (smog)
EVmc http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 94 US Electricar S-10 (battery question)
> Hi Steve,
>
> I've got the same truck.
>
> It was originally equipped with Hawkers. Two strings of 26 batts, in
> parallel, totalling 52. 26 x 12 = 312v. Hawkers are a bit on the short
> side. The box is designed to take nothing higher than 7.0000 inches. So
> it limits the replacement options. A new Hawker pack is way too pricey.
> $5k-$7k.
>
> Cor is trying a 110ah Universal brand AGM type battery. Easily found on
> the web. Problem is he had to fab a second battery box under the bed to
> fit all 26. I'm trying Nimh. Chris is trying flooded nicads. So we are
> all trying to find something better and cheaper than Hawkers.
>
> Flooded batts are too tall. AGM's work ok. Gels work ok in the
> Solectria trucks. I just don't know anyone personally that has tried
> gels in a USE truck. Both brands of trucks pull the same amperage so
> gels could work. Automotive batterys will not work at all. Basically
> they need to be deep cycle/marine in an AGM or gel.
>
> I would recommend that what ever battery you end up chosing that you go
> with only 26 in one single string. Two long strings in parallel require
> quite the battery management and monitoring system. So pick the highest
> amphour battery that will fit.
>
> Then there is another learning curve reguarding a battery management
> system.
>
> If the truck runs then you are miles ahead. They have a couple fixes
> that need to be installed to prevent catastrophic circuit board
> failure. Contact me if you do end up with the truck to discuss this.
>
> Mike
> mikep_95133 at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --- Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I know there are a few of you out there with info on these trucks.
>> My question is about the batteries. There is one up for sale on the
>> EV Tradin' Post (very close to where I live). So, I looked into it.
>> I'm still not clear. The thing is 312 V right? He said something
>> about 26 batteries and then something about 52 batteries. Does the
>> truck have two strings of batteries in it?
>>
>> Bottom line, the batteries in that thing are probably worthless.
>> It charges up and will run a few miles or so, but it needs a new
>> pack. I'm trying to figure out what the best battery solution (in
>> terms of cost) is for a truck like that. I'm thinking the battery
>> issue is going to make the thing cost prohibitive. But, I thought
>> I'd ask anyway.
>>
>> Steve
>> Atlanta, GA
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
