EV Digest 5716
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of c
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electric Vehicles in the news
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Evan's regen
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: SepEx Feasibility
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Curtis Charger?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: dc motor, an' stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ACP announces Scion Xb today
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: SepEx Feasibility
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Another take on the Tesla
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: SepEx Feasibility
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: More on SepEx
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) AC vs DC AGAIN? an' just Stuff.
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by Hump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: More on SepEx
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: dc motor, an' stuff
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Purchased Jet 007
by "Clif Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Willamette Week article on the Wayland Invitational II
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Voltage Measurement Circuit for Basic Stamp2
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Purchased Jet 007
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Why would anyone want to make a heavy car go fast when it's easier to
make a light car go fast? That car was pricey but it's a hand built
prototype.
Again, it's the technology curve. Ian picked a light chassis, thus
needing a lower power pack and drive train. That's just simple F=MA.
The tire squeel may have something to do with the wet track. I could
not even tell which car was doing the squeeling. Ian said it would
have gone mid 11's with a dry track. Imagine if it had slicks.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm with John on this one..
> Little tube framed Ev Hot rod...
> Of course it's fast.
>
> Stuff a 8 incher in there and a Zilla 2k.. I bet you can save about
$30K and
> still go faster.
>
> Folks it not the drive set up that makes or breaks a EV it's the
Cost per
> Kw, and weather you can produce it.
> OR Even intend to.
>
> AC Does not make a Ev supreme. DC is not invinciable.
> Untill somebody picks off Dennis Berube With a AC drive... AC is s
toy for
> the rich boys.
>
> Somebody in that Video needs some real Rubber.. that was tire
screach pretty
> much the whole way down the track?
> right..?
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:12 AM
> Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a
different
> class of car.)
>
>
> > Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
> > the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only
have
> > a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
> >
> > You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as
YouTube
> > truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PS: Thanks again Mike for posting this site. Everyone should go check it
out. There are a lot of great EV videos there.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: X1 doing 11.9 1/4 mile video (was The Wrightspeed X1, a different
class of car.)
Here is video of the X1 doing an 11.948 ET at 105 mph. If you believe
the trap monitor ;) Isn't that faster than 12.something? Must only have
a range of 100 miles left after a run like that....
You may have to pause the video at the end to read the times as YouTube
truncated the video a bit. The ET is clearly visable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvjH4QUtZFo
Mike
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--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 2, 2006, at 4:02 AM, Mike Willmon wrote:
I was interviewed by a local ABC channel 13 news reporter a couple
days ago and they played the clip tonight on the 6 O'clock
news. http://www.aksuperstation.com/news/local/3472226.html
Nice job!
If someone on the list can figure out how to save it feel free to move
it to youTube. I was unable to get it to save but don't
have time righ now to play with it.
I looked at the source of the web page, and the file is available for
download here:
<http://clipeditor.shadowtv.com/videos/clipeditor/client2902/stv_kimo-
hi_20060801_220736_1154487635428.wmv>
I used a tool called "wget" to download it.
I was going to copy it to YouTube, but their terms of service prohibit
posting anything that you don't own.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben,
Perhaps I should update that page, the comment about regen dates
from about 5 years ago. I experimented with a 12V, 80A PWM controller
fed by an additional battery to drive the field of the series wound
motor (which has interpoles) directly.
It seemed to work, it returned current to the 120V battery pack and
produced a mild braking effect, however the uncased controller blew up
and I moved on to other things.
My current car (the one where I'm talking about sepex regen, which is
very effective) is here: http://www.tuer.org.uk/evs2/myev.html
I guess I should do an evalbum page for that too :)
Regards
Evan
On 8/2/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Evan,
I see you have "not properly tested" regen on your car
Could you explain how it should work please? I'm interested to know the
parts you use and how effective regen charge is.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/103.html
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Aug 2006 at 13:01, Roger Stockton wrote:
> [Curtis] 1244/1274 and suitable motor ...
> I believe ADC makes sep-ex motors ...
> D&D Motors ... certainly does ...
> GE also makes sep-ex traction controls ...
> GE makes sep-ex traction motors ...
>
Since none of these companies is likely to deal directly with hobbyists,
what we need is a dealer who will stock and support appropriate
combinations. I think there's someone who sells a Kostov/Zivan pairing (96
volts? Is that CANEV?).
Who else is interested in stepping forward? Who has enough influence with
these companies?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Aug 2006 at 10:21, Wayne wrote:
> spending $8,000 or more on a conversion and only having 20 miles
> of range is not a solution, just a hobby.
That depends on what your needs are. If you drive less than 20 miles a day,
then it's a solution. (I didn't say >the< solution. ;-)
One of the ways in which it's a solution is that it solves the problem of
excessive wear on an ICE from a short commute. If your commute is just a
few miles, your ICE never really warms up properly. Under those
circumstances it's subject to significantly more wear and depreciation. An
EV absolutely excels in such a situation; it loves short trips. ;-)
> Will it run cleaner then a
> modern ICE? No, but is that important?
To me it is. Is it to you?
Do you care how much your vehicles emit? Some folks just feel more
personal responsibility for the environment than others. Priorities vary.
That's not a criticism, merely a statement of fact.
Do vehicles have to pass an inspection and maintenance program where you
live? If not, that removes some of the legal and/or social pressure to own
a vehicle which has low exhaust emissions.
> I'm not sure a true EV will be in my future any time soon.
Depends. Have you driven one yet? ;-) <--EV Grin
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This has probably been nixed on the list before, but I couldn't find
anything in the archives. I was wondering if a Curtis controller could be
used to charge a lower voltage pack from a higher voltage pack, something
like below. The pot box inputs would be used to control the charging
current.
L1
+----------+--+-////-+ +---------+
| | | | | |
| S1 / | | | |
_____ +-------------------+ |
___ | KSI B+ M- B- | |
| | | |
. | Curtis | |
. | | |
_____ +-------------------+ _____
___ ___
| |
. .
. .
_____ _____
___ ___
| |
| |
| |
+----------------+----------------+
|
-----
---
-
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: dc motor
> It was an old GE motor I got it from the late "Jack" in New England and
> there was a problem with brushes plus over heat plus poor mileage. prolly
> about 15 miles with 120 volts if that. Always something going wrong. I was
> afraid to drive it very far. Thats why I want a good motor the next Time.
I
> drive a Honda "ICE" 1988 which gets better than 30 miles per in town with
> air and 45 on the road with out air.
> This is hard to beat with an elect vech.
> Rich in Virginia
Hi Rich;
Sort of familiar with that motor Jack had. It was a 72 volt GE from a
"whatever" from the fifties. Was a Henney Kilowatt motor, rated at 7 and a
half HP. It was never enough. Jack had overheating issues with ALL hid
Henneys and the MG Midget he put a Henney motor in. Oh he tried! He put a
blower on the brush end, to try to cool things down. But it really wasn't
enough. I think these things were used origionally for bilge pump motors on
the Mayflower, ancient, wimpy brush rigging and comm. When Jack joined the
20th century, with a ADC 8" it was about the same size or maybe smaller,
than the prehistoric GE. His later years he ran an 8 and a Rasptur
controller, as he had a Curset at first.He went through so many Curti, back
then it took over a year for Golf Tex to fix them IF they didn't just lose
it for you!Why he didn't just send it back to Curtis??So , to the guy that
bought Jack's MG in Chicago land you got the good stuff, and should be happy
motoring with the rig, with the top down!
So give that motor to the Smithsonian, or talk to Jim Husted at Hy
Torque electric. He might suggest something short of a boat anchor. But the
Warp and ADC offerings are MADE for EV'sEspecially the WARPs as we, J
wayland had some imput into Warp's designs. You will get all the support ya
need with the Warp line of motors.Nowadaze motors aren't the issue they were
30 years ago. I have seen it all, from those daze when motors died of well,
most everything. starting with crappy insulation to tiny wimpy comms and
brush rigging. Modern science has gone beyond that. Motors will live a long
and happy life nawadaze, as you hear them sing happily as you go down the
road. Sorta like a cat, if ya have cats, their contented purr, especially at
fueling time!My ADC lived 70K in my rabbit, had the comm turned once, still
on my origional brushes!Had HAD my Armature rrewound by Warfield about 6
years ago, when it went to ground. Fields too as I had had a mysterious
Zorch inside burning the fields to almost open! So it is REALLY a Warfield
motor, now?
A 8 inch motor should do fine in a Bug!? I have a 8 incher in the
Sentra I'm doing now. it's so Godamn HOT of late I haven't been putting my
ALL into gettinng it going.I have stuffed 5 T 145's up front behind the
grille, and 10 in a nice dropped between the frame rails box in back, WITH a
cover, like , if ya met my Rabbit in Joliet, setup. NO badderies or HP
cables in the passenger cabin, this time! The Nissan is relatively light,
but I'm sure it is a tad hevier than the Rabbit? But it will be a 90 volt
car for starters. It was 90 volts when I got it, it DID manage 60 on the
East Side Hiway in NYC when I tried it before buying. The batteries were
shot and after that run barely made it back to Harlem, where the car lived,
at the time 116th street, even! After it's trip up to God's country, and
junking the US Badd-eries it came with, and a long 3 year hiatus, and body
structural repair, it will emerge from my garage rebuilt and good to go,
again.Actually I think it will be easier to do the VW Jetta lerking in the
garage with it;'s mouth(hood) open, because I don't have to UNDOO asnd dope
out EVerything the first guy did. But I know the car DID run before. But it
probably won't go fast enouhg for me, and probably sell it off, as a 90
volter?We'll see. With A Curset, I don't think it will be any fireball, but
for somrebody on the leval, residense wise and relatively short distances to
commute? It should be as good as the Mark Hastings 72 volt 6 inch motor
Rabbit of a fre years ago.Good in town car. FAR better than ANY NEV!As you
COULD hop on the freeway for a 60MPH burst across town, if need be?
My two watts worth.
Bob, in too tropical CT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, August 1, 2006 10:21 am, Wayne wrote:
> I'm sorry, but no matter
> how you do that math, spending $8,000 or more on a conversion and only
> having 20 miles of range is not a solution, just a hobby.
I find this statement really interesting. I think in some sense it
typifies what many people (EV'ers and non-EV'ers alike) think about EVs
and conversions. And yet, the non-EV'ers are spending $40k or more to
drive BMW's, Lexus, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. on their daily commute, which
is probably within the range of many EVs.
And still, a $40k EV seems "outrageous" (even to many on this list, unless
it pulls 11s).
I wonder how long it will take people to change their perception, and
realize that a $40k BMW is even more outrageous than a $40k EV (or
conversion) is. (BMW wastes gas, pollutes, breaks down, needs periodic
maintenence, etc.)
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: ACP announces Scion Xb today
> On 1 Aug 2006 at 20:41, Death to All Spammers wrote:
>
> > $70K for an electrified econobox ...
>
> Ten+ years later and twice the price of a Solectria Force. Do you think
they'll
> sell half as many? <sigh>
>
Well, with inflation and akll that the Forses wrere offered , what, 10
years ago?I guess you could buy a AC propulsion setup and put it in uyour
Skoda, Trabant or Red Flag, and savabuk?Gees You could think they coulda
done, say, a Mieta or something nice an' useful as a car?But the Scion must
have the drag co efficient of a Diseasel Locomotive or a brick?
My two Scion's worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> Since none of these companies is likely to deal directly
> with hobbyists,
Actually, that is probably true only for GE and perhaps ADC. Curtis
will sell their sep-ex controllers directly to individuals, and I'm
pretty sure D&D will sell to individual also.
> what we need is a dealer who will stock and support appropriate
> combinations. I think there's someone who sells a Kostov/Zivan
> pairing (96 volts? Is that CANEV?).
Yep. Mike Hoskinson, for instance has a 96V Kostov/Zapi sep-ex system
in his Citroen courtesy of Canadian Electric Vehicles.
I don't know if Randy still encourages the use of the Kostov sep-ex
motor, as I believe he had some reliability issues with them in airport
applications. If my memory is not failing me, I believe he has also
used largish sep-ex motors from ADC.
I know he has used a D&D motor and Curtis sep-ex controller in a Honda
motorcycle conversion in the recent past, so this combination is
certainly available.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis
Here's a link to a nice, concise bio of the amazing Paul MacCready. The
Impact is mentioned.
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/main_sponsors_maccready.php
Bill
Palo Alto, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pestka, Dennis J
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 4:14 AM
To: EV Discussion Group
Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car
I have a copy of a 1992 article in Discovery Magazine on the design of
the Impact (EV1) by Paul MacCready and his company AeroVironment.
With the recent release of the movie, Who Killed the Electric Car, I
thought some people might enjoy reading this.
Some may not even be aware of Aerovironments involvement in its'
original design.
If someone can give me a place to post it, I would be happy to send it
to you.
Hopefully this is not breaking some copy write law.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks
Be aware that this author is definitely left of center.
Here-
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2006/08/02/notes080206.DTL
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Race Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: SepEx Feasibility
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 12:42:14 -0400
>On 1 Aug 2006 at 13:01, Roger Stockton wrote:
>
>> [Curtis] 1244/1274 and suitable motor ...
>> I believe ADC makes sep-ex motors ...
>> D&D Motors ... certainly does ...
>> GE also makes sep-ex traction controls ...
>> GE makes sep-ex traction motors ...
>>
>
>Since none of these companies is likely to deal directly
>with hobbyists, what we need is a dealer who will stock
>and support appropriate combinations. I think there's
>someone who sells a Kostov/Zivan pairing (96 volts? Is
>that CANEV?).
>
>Who else is interested in stepping forward? Who has enough
>influence with these companies?
As Bob says, D+D does sell Sep Ex motors with
controllers though only in the 6.7" size. But one of them
for a light EV like mine or 2 for a larger EV would work
well.
Their cost is about the same as series motors,
controllers. I talked to them late last yr for motors for
the Freedom EV and they had both types. They will also make
a motor to most whatever field you want. You just need to
give them the specs of your controller needs if you don't go
with their Altrax ones.
Bob Rice is a dealer for them so may be the a good
person to work with.
When I called ADC a couple yrs ago, they were
surprized I wanted series motors and pushed Sep-Ex then. Of
course then they were owned by the guys at D+D before they
sold out the larger motor line, company name!! But most any
motor builder that does single units will do you a sep-ex
motor field to you, to your controller's company specs.
I like D+D because they are knowledgeable, not to
mention they have the best prices and willing to work on low
numbers of motors to start. I'll use 2 D+D ES-22 series
wound motors but if a customer wants Sep-Ex, I'll put that
in too as they bolt up the same.
I'm going to check out those larger 72v/600 amp
controllers Roger mentioned as they would be even better.
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Assistant Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>=
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not to me.
I would spend $40k tomorrow on an EV if it met this short list of criteria:
1) Keeps up with traffic
2) Top speed 60MPH
3) Range approaching 100miles
4) Was new and warrantied
5) Had the luxury, options, and trim levels of a car that would sell
new for $25k
-Mike
On 8/2/06, Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
And still, a $40k EV seems "outrageous" (even to many on this list, unless
it pulls 11s).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been wondering whether it might be possible to do a decent job of
controlling a SepEx by taking a standard series controller like a Curtis
or Zilla and adding a separate controller for the field. The latter
should not be too hard to custom-build if needed, since the current would
be relatively low. Coordinating the two could be done with analog
circuitry if the algorithm is simple, or a single-board micro if you want
to get fancy. The simplest algorithm I can think of would be full field
to start with, and then as the pedal is pressed first increase the
armature voltage, then, after full armature voltage is reached, start
decreasing field. You'd need a safety circuit that would disable the
field weakening if armature current got too high (like on Elec-traks).
Comments?
Steve Gaarder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
All of what, O.K., some of what... well, part of what you may say may very
well be true. On the other hand, when I asked Lee Hart if he would dress in
drag ("Time to make the donuts") and go undercover at Azure, he ignored my
request.
So, good advice to noobs is to shut up and listen. And, don't wear too much
rouge, really, it's so tacky.
jcwinnie
(Maligned GEM owner)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aren't 1 and 2 mutually exclusive?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Ellis
> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 2:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Sporty, practical=lightweight, long range EV
>
> Not to me.
>
> I would spend $40k tomorrow on an EV if it met this short list of
criteria:
>
> 1) Keeps up with traffic
> 2) Top speed 60MPH
> 3) Range approaching 100miles
> 4) Was new and warrantied
> 5) Had the luxury, options, and trim levels of a car that would sell new
for
> $25k
>
> -Mike
>
>
>
>
> On 8/2/06, Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And still, a $40k EV seems "outrageous" (even to many on
this list,
> > unless it pulls 11s).
>
>
________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Gaarder wrote:
> I have been wondering whether it might be possible to do a
> decent job of controlling a SepEx by taking a standard
> series controller like a Curtis or Zilla and adding a
> separate controller for the field.
I think this could certainly work. Browsing the manual for the Curtis
1244 to get a feel for how its field curent is controlled would be a
good starting point.
Basically, the field controller needs to enforce minimum and maximum
field current limits, and vary the field current between these limits as
a function of the armature current. The field controller need only
handle up to a maximum of about 50A (at most).
You could probably take a 72/80V rated sep-ex motor and run a (slightly
to significantly) higher voltage pack, just as is often done with series
motors. As an example, perhaps run a 120-144V pack via a Curtis 1231 to
control the armature. You would likely need to add an inductor to keep
the controller happy despite the absence of the series field winding.
The throttle could control the Curtis as usual, and the field controller
would take its "throttle" input from an armature current sense circuit
so that it automatically varies the field current as the armature
current varies. You'd want to provide some interlock that keeps the
armature controller disabled (use the Curtis KSI input?) whenever the
field current is below the minimum (i.e. disables the armature until the
field controller is running, and disables the armature if the field
controller fails).
Of course, at the end of all this, you'd have only half of a sep-ex
system. That is, you'd have something that mimics the behaviour of a
series system using a sep-ex motor, but you wouldn't have the sep-ex
features of regen braking or electrical reverse. Electrical reverse
would be straightforward provided you use an H-bridge controller on the
field, or provide a relay/contactor means of reversing the (low current)
connections between the field and field controller, but to do regen
would require using an armature controller that will allow regen current
to flow back to the batteries (and ideally, would actively enforce
current limit in this mode also).
Ultimately, I think a more usable system could probably be assembled
more easily by using a pair of 6.5" or larger 72V sep-ex motors and a
pair of Curtis 1244s if the application calls for more power than a
single motor/controller can provide. Some time ago, ADC had a 'garage
sale' on some 72V sep-ex NEV motors which were unusual in that they had
drive end bearings (did not rely on a transaxle/diff to support the
output shaft. These were going out the door for just a couple hundred
bucks each. We picked up a pair and built a dyno out of them at work,
and a co-worker picked up another and installed it in his Electrak
(driven by 72V of AGMs and a 1244! ;^)
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the input on that old motor. It confirms what I thought. I did
ask Jim about it once and he said send him pic`s so he sould ID it, but I
have it down in carolina out of mind and out of sight.lol Even the
controller went bad after siting over the winter. This was bout five years
ago. I might be able to see it a lil different now. The current gas price
has helped. As for that old motor.... ya know the ol saying "let a dead dog
lay" kinna th way I feel about it..Ha Ha.
Thanks again for the input.
Rich in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: dc motor, an' stuff
----- Original Message -----
From: "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 1:41 AM
Subject: Re: dc motor
It was an old GE motor I got it from the late "Jack" in New England and
there was a problem with brushes plus over heat plus poor mileage. prolly
about 15 miles with 120 volts if that. Always something going wrong. I
was
afraid to drive it very far. Thats why I want a good motor the next Time.
I
drive a Honda "ICE" 1988 which gets better than 30 miles per in town with
air and 45 on the road with out air.
This is hard to beat with an elect vech.
Rich in Virginia
Hi Rich;
Sort of familiar with that motor Jack had. It was a 72 volt GE from a
"whatever" from the fifties. Was a Henney Kilowatt motor, rated at 7 and a
half HP. It was never enough. Jack had overheating issues with ALL hid
Henneys and the MG Midget he put a Henney motor in. Oh he tried! He put a
blower on the brush end, to try to cool things down. But it really wasn't
enough. I think these things were used origionally for bilge pump motors
on
the Mayflower, ancient, wimpy brush rigging and comm. When Jack joined the
20th century, with a ADC 8" it was about the same size or maybe smaller,
than the prehistoric GE. His later years he ran an 8 and a Rasptur
controller, as he had a Curset at first.He went through so many Curti,
back
then it took over a year for Golf Tex to fix them IF they didn't just lose
it for you!Why he didn't just send it back to Curtis??So , to the guy that
bought Jack's MG in Chicago land you got the good stuff, and should be
happy
motoring with the rig, with the top down!
So give that motor to the Smithsonian, or talk to Jim Husted at Hy
Torque electric. He might suggest something short of a boat anchor. But
the
Warp and ADC offerings are MADE for EV'sEspecially the WARPs as we, J
wayland had some imput into Warp's designs. You will get all the support
ya
need with the Warp line of motors.Nowadaze motors aren't the issue they
were
30 years ago. I have seen it all, from those daze when motors died of
well,
most everything. starting with crappy insulation to tiny wimpy comms and
brush rigging. Modern science has gone beyond that. Motors will live a
long
and happy life nawadaze, as you hear them sing happily as you go down the
road. Sorta like a cat, if ya have cats, their contented purr, especially
at
fueling time!My ADC lived 70K in my rabbit, had the comm turned once,
still
on my origional brushes!Had HAD my Armature rrewound by Warfield about 6
years ago, when it went to ground. Fields too as I had had a mysterious
Zorch inside burning the fields to almost open! So it is REALLY a Warfield
motor, now?
A 8 inch motor should do fine in a Bug!? I have a 8 incher in the
Sentra I'm doing now. it's so Godamn HOT of late I haven't been putting my
ALL into gettinng it going.I have stuffed 5 T 145's up front behind the
grille, and 10 in a nice dropped between the frame rails box in back, WITH
a
cover, like , if ya met my Rabbit in Joliet, setup. NO badderies or HP
cables in the passenger cabin, this time! The Nissan is relatively light,
but I'm sure it is a tad hevier than the Rabbit? But it will be a 90 volt
car for starters. It was 90 volts when I got it, it DID manage 60 on the
East Side Hiway in NYC when I tried it before buying. The batteries were
shot and after that run barely made it back to Harlem, where the car
lived,
at the time 116th street, even! After it's trip up to God's country, and
junking the US Badd-eries it came with, and a long 3 year hiatus, and body
structural repair, it will emerge from my garage rebuilt and good to go,
again.Actually I think it will be easier to do the VW Jetta lerking in the
garage with it;'s mouth(hood) open, because I don't have to UNDOO asnd
dope
out EVerything the first guy did. But I know the car DID run before. But
it
probably won't go fast enouhg for me, and probably sell it off, as a 90
volter?We'll see. With A Curset, I don't think it will be any fireball,
but
for somrebody on the leval, residense wise and relatively short distances
to
commute? It should be as good as the Mark Hastings 72 volt 6 inch motor
Rabbit of a fre years ago.Good in town car. FAR better than ANY NEV!As you
COULD hop on the freeway for a 60MPH burst across town, if need be?
My two watts worth.
Bob, in too tropical CT
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
lol... I suppose. Max speed limit where I live is 100KPH. I try not to
exceed it, much to the dismay of heavy truckers.
-Mike
On 8/2/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not to me.
I would spend $40k tomorrow on an EV if it met this short list of criteria:
1) Keeps up with traffic
2) Top speed 60MPH
3) Range approaching 100miles
4) Was new and warrantied
5) Had the luxury, options, and trim levels of a car that would sell
new for $25k
-Mike
On 8/2/06, Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And still, a $40k EV seems "outrageous" (even to many on this list, unless
> it pulls 11s).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Aren't 1 and 2 mutually exclusive?
>
...
> > 1) Keeps up with traffic
> > 2) Top speed 60MPH
> > 3) Range approaching 100miles
> > 4) Was new and warrantied
> > 5) Had the luxury, options, and trim levels of a car that would
sell new
> for
> > $25k
Mutually *inclusive*, unless you consider "keeps up with traffic" to
be quick, while "top speed 60MPH" could mean glacial acceleration!
I'd consider a $40K EV a reasonable initial price, even if I can't
afford it, but the list would have to include:
6) Has a roof, whether hard or soft
7) Average to above average safety (air bags nice but not neccessary)
8) Seats > 2 (or at least has the carrying capacity of an EV1)
9) Variety of charging inputs, Avcon optional
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> lol... I suppose. Max speed limit where I live is 100KPH. I try not
to
> exceed it, much to the dismay of heavy truckers.
>
> -Mike
>
In the Ranger, I rarely go the speed limit (65mph on the Interstate)
unless I let a semi in front and he's going that fast or faster (and I
stay very alert).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The charger says:
Lestronic I
208/230 volts
60 Hz
Model 9868
24 Amps AC
1 phase
DC volts 12/120
DC amps 15/25
Type 12/120LCR25-8ET
Serial No 10-80
What can anyone tell me about it?
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Purchased Jet 007
On 31 Jul 2006 at 17:46, Matthew Milliron wrote:
I got all the parts for a cord at Lowe's Hardware. It is a simple
three wire cord. Two hot wires and a neutral.
Assuming this is a 240v Lester charger, the third wire is not a neutral,
it's a ground. The ground should NOT be connected to the line neutral.
You
need a 240 volt (only), 20 amp receptacle to plug the charger in.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks
If you decide to email this author please be gentle, she is new to EVs and
has made a couple of mistakes and misconceptions in the article.
And... she will also be attending/reporting on the Late Night Nationals.
Here-
http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3239/7828
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Race Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Optos are not very good for isolating analog signals. The gain changes
quite a bit with temperature, mfg variations, and age/usage. I believe
a much more appropriate solution is to use an electrically isolated PIC
and a bunch of instrumentation amps to read the batt voltages and use
the opto to digitally talk to another PIC completely isolated from this one.
Still promoting dropping the BASIC Stamp in favor of just using the PIC
BTW. $100 will get you the top-of-the-line programmer and ICD which
allows you to read everything that is going on with the chip's registers
as the actual circuit runs. Lots of forums will readily help you with
ANY project based on a PIC.
Danny
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hello Everybody:
I sort of designed a circuit to measure pack voltage with a Basic Stamp 2
. Would somebody please take at look at the design
http://www.littleriverranch.com/evbs.html
if it is feasible, if it is going to work and if it is safe. Maybe I
completely missed the idea, maybe it is going to blow up something. Please
excuse my ignorance, but I am approaching this problem from the software
side and I don't have that much experience with a soldering iron.
Thanks for your help.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clif Martin wrote:
> Lestronic I
> Model 9868
> Type 12/120LCR25-8ET
>
> What can anyone tell me about it?
As I recall, the 12V output is not well-controlled, so it will tend to
cook your 12V accessory battery if it is used. Unfortunately, if I
recall correctly, you need to connect the 12V output or else the 120V
output may not work properly...
The -8ET suffix tells you that the charger has the "electronic timer"
board, so will automatically shutoff without you needing to manually set
a timer at the start of charge.
You might try emailing Lester to see if they can supply you with a
manual or other info for this model. They do supply manuals online, but
their search feature expects a 5-digit model number and turns up nothing
when fed 9868. However, their model 12660 documentation might still be
useful to give you a general sense of what you have; this is a 48VDC/25A
output, 230VAC input Lestronic II model (48LC25-8ET):
<http://www2.lesterelectrical.com/search/showoption.php?partNumber=12660
-99>
For instance the wiring diagram for this unit is likely to be very
nearly representative of the 120V output circuit of yours. Obviously,
yours also has a 12V output winding, but the electronic timer board will
only be present on the main 120V output. Yours may also incorporate an
output relay that only connects the 120V output once a 12V battery is
connected to the 12V output (I vaguely remember some sort of interlock
operation like this on the 12V/96V model that came with my first EV).
Good luck,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/2/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 1 Aug 2006 at 10:21, Wayne wrote:
> Will it run cleaner then a
> modern ICE? No, but is that important?
To me it is. Is it to you?
Do you care how much your vehicles emit? Some folks just feel more
personal responsibility for the environment than others. Priorities vary.
That's not a criticism, merely a statement of fact.
Do vehicles have to pass an inspection and maintenance program where you
live? If not, that removes some of the legal and/or social pressure to
own
a vehicle which has low exhaust emissions.
Lots of good replies. Thanks very much.
I'm sorry as I seem to have a chip on my shoulder in many of my posts here.
My point about the emissions level was that if I convert a "dirty" Suzuki
ICE engine into a hybrid using the same or similar engine, am I running any
dirtier then the stock vehicle. This was in response to someone comparing a
gen set to a modern low emissions engine. I wasn't sure that was fair.
Lets face it we would all love to have the budget to play with all kinds of
expensive toys, but we have to stay within our project budgets if we hope to
complete them. Often times this means giving up performance, economy, added
weight, dirtier methods. The net gain hopefully gets us something usable and
reaches our goals.
Benefits to an offroad vehicle like a Samurai are:
1) motor can run upside down as I am no longer need to maintain engine oil
pressure.
2) improved engine response and power at very low RPMs (great for rock
crawling).
3) near silent operation should allow for seeing more wildlife, and less
headache.
4) may not need to re-gear vehicle to make ICE work well in the big
obstacles.
The negatives I see are:
1) expense
2) weight
3) loss of storage space in a small vehicle.
4) complexity of systems.
Some may argue the complexity issue, but lets face it, ICE configurations
are well known and generally very reliable. My current rock crawler is
powered by a Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo 2.0 liter adapted to an all Toyota
drivetrain. With close to 300HP this is a fun vehicle, but not clean or
quiet! Fuel economy is pretty poor also. But the drivetrain has been very
reliable short of snapping axles.
I think a hybrid Samurai would be a hoot, but in a different way. I'd sure
say it is a step in the right direction.
I'll keep reading and see if I can stumble upon a method that does not kill
the planet. My basic electrical skills are pretty rusty. I can rewire a
modern EFI system, but this is far tougher in my opinion. I have never had
to deal with electrically efficiency issues before.
-Wayne
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