EV Digest 5735
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Checking out the mid '80s Toyota Van as a conversion candidate
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Discharge load?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NANO TUBE BATTERY
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Discharge load?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: NANO TUBE BATTERY
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Curtis Charger?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Pasadena HyperMinis Under Assault Now
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Who says flooded lead is slow?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Discharge load?
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Schott Power?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Discharge load?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Discharge load?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) set ev mail
by "SCOTT O'QUINN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Joule Injected burnout at WKtEC and Florida Premier
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You know, you're right! I've been trying to figure
out what to do for a decent batt. van.
Chrysler 80's: light, available in stick, but no
headrests!
Ford Aerostar: mostly automatics. Mechanical issues.
GM: Heavy. Sticks?
That mid-engine design would have some sweet handling
with Pb-acid in it! Seats come up and forward for
access. Would be nice if the potbox, DCDC, controller
et.al were easy access. On the flip side, not too
much air going to the controller...
Should be interesting!
--- Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've been looking at these little Toyota vans for a
> while. They seem to
> me to be a reasonable candidate for conversion. I
> found one in a
> parking lot one day so I got out my tape measure and
> poked around under
> neath it. I think I could get 24 batteries under
> the floor if I can get
> enough ground clearance for an 11" tall battery box.
> The vans came in a
> 4wd configuration that has a lot more ground
> clearance than the 2wd
> version. The GVWR is about 5000 lbs, while the curb
> weight of the 2wd
> version is about 3200lbs. This is starting to look
> promising. They use
> a 3Y-EC or 4Y-EC engine and came with either a
> 3speed automatic or 5
> speed standard transmission. They are rear wheel
> drive and have either
> leaf springs in the rear or 4 link. The front is
> torsion bars.
>
> I'm thinking that if I could find a 4wd, I'd swap
> out the transmission
> for a 2wd standard type and take out all the fwd
> equipment. I'd also
> get one with leaf springs so that I can add helper
> springs. I'd be
> looking for a lift kit to get the loaded ground
> clearance from the floor
> pan to be in the 20" range.
>
> The 2wd version has about an 15" ground clearance
> unloaded. I haven't
> found a 4wd version sitting still that I can measure
> yet. Does anyone
> have access to one that they could get me this
> measurement?
>
> Then comes the problem of attaching the battery
> boxes under the floor of
> a unibody design. I'd need some serious mechanical
> consulting to get
> this right so that the batteries are easy to drop.
>
> Paul Wallace
> '91 chevy s10 full of saft nicads
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Just think how much faster it'd be at 240volts with a Zilla and the same
weight. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:09 AM
Subject: Who says flooded lead is slow?
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/837
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
Right again! The motor-generator pair works exactly like a transformer
(except that the DC side is drawing/generating DC current).
Lee, let me get this straight: I have an Elec-trak AC-DC rotary
inverter. You put 36ish volts in one end, it spins, and 110 ish volts at
at around 60hz comes out on the other end. Slip rings and brushes on
both sides.
Does this mean I can plug the other end into 110 volts AC, and have my
tractor provide power to the grid (assuming I'm above 36 volts on the
tractor)? Or does this only work on induction motors?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
The OW distance is about 22 miles with unfortunately little chance of
charging the batteries at the "B" end.
There are lots of potential donor cars like the rabbit that I could pick up
at a good price - rust not too big a problem. The main issue is the battery.
Anyone have any knowledge on the Zebra battery?
http://www.betard.co.uk/zebra.htm
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:28 AM
Subject: questions from a newbie
I am a UK based with a 45 mile daily commute which is starting to bug my
conscience and pocket.
I need a vehicle that will cover my commute at motorway speeds
(60-70mph -
80 if possible). The easy route is to buy but there is no EV commercially
available in the UK that will meet my needs which leaves the
kit/conversion
option.
I am a lapsed engineer so the project interests me but I need to shake
the
dust off my technical training & realistically work out what this will
cost
me. There are a number of books listed in the FAQ which could do the
trick,
can someone give me a recommendation?
Also, my research so far appears to preclude lead acid battery technology
for the distance I need. Has lithium battery technology reached the point
that it can cost justify itself in an EV & where can I get more info?
Ron
Hey Ron;
You didn't say if a 45 mile commute was RT or OW?? This is a biggie
here.
I ran a 82 Rabbit, maybe Golf in the UK? A lite shitbox car stuffed with
20
golf cart batteries, so I could get home for sure IF my plugs were Iced at
work.I ran on the turnpike at 60-70MPH like yur Motorways, most of the
way.
I worked at the RR as a train driver, and wired a set of plug-in's at the
roundhouse area, nobody cared, whats a few amps in a train yard of
electric
trains?I lived happily for YEARS with a 120 volt outlet and a 100 foot or
more 'stench chord!THAT was my dropping resister for a Bad Boy charging
setup! In UK build a 240 volt car and just plugitin with a simple full
wave
bridge.There MUST be nice lite small cars in UK that would make good donar
cars?Or do all your older cars disolve in dismaying blights of rust in 10
years as they do in CT, USA?
My too watts worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A123 Systems batteries are a MIT product.
http://www.a123systems.com/html/home.html
Bill Dube uses them in his KillaCycle.
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/a123/KillaCycle.html
Very Serious batteries!
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: NANO TUBE BATTERY
Every time I see hopeful claims by some company or university, instead of
getting excited I get a sick feeling, because there seems to be so much patent
squatting and such. I just read a post from Noel Adams on another list about
how MIT (much like the Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys thing) just sits on the research
or discovery and doesn't go forward with it, much to the dismay of the actual
discoverer/inventor as the rights belong to MIT not to the researcher.
Chet
P.S. I heard from someone else that whoever actually provides the funding for
the research is the owner of anything discovered. Is this true?
--- torich1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> NANO TUBE BATTERY
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2006/06/26/nanotube_battery_wit.html
>
> Lets hope!!!
> Rich in Virginia
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm starting to get nervous about this talk of feeding power back into
the grid.
Are there rules governing this behavior? I have heard that solar PV
systems that are grid-tied can't be used during a power outage, for
fear of electrocuting some poor lineman who thinks the power is out.
I know it's possible to do this and make your meter run backwards. I
have always assumed that you need specific safety equipment and the
agreement of the electric company.
Am I off base here?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you suppose that Nimh has much of a Peukert factor?
Mike
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > When I plug in a single phase motor to the outlet, it should spin
> on
> > its own right?
>
> Right!
>
> > So then the dc motor should try and spin the induction motor a
> > little quicker. So the faster it spins the more current I can
> > push into the grid?
>
> Right again!
>
> > So what motor should be powered first? If the inductions motor
> > starts spinning then the dc motor becomes a generator.
>
> Right again! The motor-generator pair works exactly like a
> transformer
> (except that the DC side is drawing/generating DC current).
>
> The AC induction motor wants to run very near synchronous speed. If
> your
> DC motor is PM, it therefore has to run at that same speed. It
> therefore
> wants to produce the same DC voltage. It generates current if you try
> to
> slow it down, and absorbs power (pushes it back into the AC line) if
> you
> try to spin it faster.
>
> To use this setup as a general-purpose charger/load, a DC motor with
> a
> wound field would be best. That lets you adjust the DC side's
> voltage,
> and consequently control the current flow.
>
> > I think a load of around 25 amps on a 6.5ah pack would only take
> > 1/4 hour.
>
> Approximately correct. The amphour capacity is reduced though at
> higher
> currents.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or even faster with an ACP system on 336v and less weight ;)
Did I read that right. 400 hp?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Just think how much faster it'd be at 240volts with a Zilla and the same
> weight. Lawrence Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:09 AM
> Subject: Who says flooded lead is slow?
>
>
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/837
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, I'm taking your word for it that your 11.03 timeslip is actually
yours :)
Mike
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The performance specs are extremely dubious! It is so very easy to
> just type
> in your assumptions without any real proof.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:09 AM
> Subject: Who says flooded lead is slow?
>
>
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/837
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date:
> 8/7/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date:
> 8/7/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 8, 2006, at 12:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
P.S. I heard from someone else that whoever actually provides the
funding for
the research is the owner of anything discovered. Is this true?
As usual, it depends, but this is true in many cases.
Think about it: why would someone with money give it to you to develop
an invention, and then let you keep all rights to it (and all the
profit potential)? Presumably the person with money is looking to make
more of it.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
After getting up off the floor from the shock of realizing I'd envisioned
something that might actually work :), I reread your reply. I think you're
saying the better hook-up would be like the revised schematic below,
correct?
+-------+---+----+
| | | |
| | | _____
| | | ___
| | | |
| | | |
| | | /
| | | / L1
| | | /
| | | /
| S1 / | |
_____ +-------------------+
___ | KSI B+ M- B- |---+
| | | |
. | Curtis | |
. +-------------------+ +-+
_____ | | F1
___ +-+
| |
+----------------------------+
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Curtis Charger?
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> This has probably been nixed on the list before, but I couldn't find
> anything in the archives. I was wondering if a Curtis controller could be
> used to charge a lower voltage pack from a higher voltage pack, something
> like below. The pot box inputs would be used to control the charging
> current.
Yes, you could make this work. You need an inductor, as shown in your
schematic, because the controller is designed to only work into an
inductive load. The motor's series field is good enough. Connect your
battery pack in place of the series motor's armature.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pasadena appears to be making noise as Nissan attempts to confiscate
their much-loved hyperminis. TV station camera crews have arrived. Ed
Schultz show is poised for live feed.
If you are anywhere near Pasadena, go down and lend your support.
236 W Mountain St.
Pasadena
Marc Geller for Paul Scott en route to Pasadena
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it is funny that all of the high-profile "commercial" EVs
(ACP, Tesla, Wrightspeed, Venturi) all use the ACP designed packs of
laptop lithiums.
(note above - the commercial was in quotes :-)
All of the designed-for-EV Lithium battery manufacturers go to great
lengths on their websites to explain how their batteries are so much
safer than laptop or phone lithiums.
I wonder why Tesla etc chose the ACP multi-mini-cell packs over
something like Kokams?
Part of the deal for the ACP controller and motor?
BMS integrated with controller/charger electronics?
Who knows?
I just hope that the BMS does a good job of keeping the batts away from
the danger zone.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lock Hughes
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2006 1:52 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
>
>
> Seen here:
> http://www.techreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=17250&ch=biztec
> h&sc=&pg=1
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/q6klk
>
> A snip:
> Thursday, August 03, 2006
> Are Lithium-Ion Electric Cars Safe?
> The use of a type of battery with a history of overheating raises
> safety concerns.
>
> By Kevin Bullis
>
> Laptops equipped with lithium-ion batteries occasionally overheat and
> catch fire. This has some people concerned about the use of this type
> of battery in new electric sports cars and kits for converting
> conventional cars and hybrid vehicles into all-electric cars.
>
> It's an exciting time for electric vehicles -- with regular
> announcements of increasing storage capacities for battery materials
> (see "Battery Breakthrough") and exotic, high-priced vehicles
> slated to
> come onto the market, such as the recently announced sports car from
> Tesla Motors of San Carlos, CA. But electric vehicles have failed in
> the past. If they're going to succeed this time around,
> they'll need to
> win over the general consumer, and that will mean, among other things,
> demonstrating that the powerful battery packs are safe.
> [end of snip]
>
> Tks
> Lock
> Human/electric hybrid in Toronto
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1800 Amp x 160V, assuming you have no battery voltage sag (hah!)
More than half the weight is lead, that is why it has a respectable
range though they list the "inflated" range of careful constant
speed range till 0% SOC. Normal driving range would probably be
well under 100 miles.
stacking 40 golf cart batteries on a pickup chassis is truly
creating a lead sled!
Note that there are 4 batteries under the 10 behind the seats,
so that is a watering/maintenance problem.
They created a nice fast body though!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:58 PM
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Subject: Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
Or even faster with an ACP system on 336v and less weight ;)
Did I read that right. 400 hp?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Just think how much faster it'd be at 240volts with a Zilla and the same
> weight. Lawrence Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:09 AM
> Subject: Who says flooded lead is slow?
>
>
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/837
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct - all equipment feeding the grid needs to have a
separate (I think it needs to be lockable) disconnect switch
and it needs to have a way to detect phase and/or voltage level
errors and cease operation within milliseconds from detecting
such a situation.
In SW these systems are attempting to speed up or increase the
grid AC voltage and when they actually succeed in doing that, it
means that they are no longer connected to the grid, so they
stop.
For example, the inverter generates a waveform which is always
a tiny bit ahead of the sinus it is actually seeing and it can
increase the frequency up to 61 Hz from its normal 60 and it
can go down to 59 Hz.
However, when it finds the frequency outside the 59.5 - 60.5 Hz
range, it will disconnect automatically and try to re-sync.
Even when you have such an inverter and a motor connected to
the grid when it is disconnected, the motor will either slow
down or speed up and the inverter will stop powering it.
Now try to do that with a DC motor driving an AC motor that
is connected to the grid...
I doubt that the few bucks that you will save on your
electricity bill will be any match for the effort and the
liability involved.
One full prius pack: 273V 6.5 Ah gives max 1.8 kWh.
With several conversion losses you'd probably get a max
1 kWh into the wall outlet.
On a normal metering scheme this means you saved a dime.
Grid electricity is still extremely cheap.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
I'm starting to get nervous about this talk of feeding power back into
the grid.
Are there rules governing this behavior? I have heard that solar PV
systems that are grid-tied can't be used during a power outage, for
fear of electrocuting some poor lineman who thinks the power is out.
I know it's possible to do this and make your meter run backwards. I
have always assumed that you need specific safety equipment and the
agreement of the electric company.
Am I off base here?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
do a search on solar guerilla.
Doug Weathers wrote:
I'm starting to get nervous about this talk of feeding power back into
the grid.
Are there rules governing this behavior? I have heard that solar PV
systems that are grid-tied can't be used during a power outage, for fear
of electrocuting some poor lineman who thinks the power is out.
I know it's possible to do this and make your meter run backwards. I
have always assumed that you need specific safety equipment and the
agreement of the electric company.
Am I off base here?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would not need to be single-phase. Three-phase would also work,
provided the voltage was appropriate.
A three-phase motor would make it impossible to start the motor from the
grid, though (without extra hardware).
- Arthur
On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 10:19 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
> Lee Hart wrote:
> >> use your test pack to run a DC motor. Use the motor to spin an AC
> >> induction motor. When this induction motor spins slightly faster
> >> than synchronous speed, it becomes an induction generator -- it
> >> pushes the power back into the grid!
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Would it need to be a single phase induction motor?
>
> Yes; for generating single-phase AC, you use a single-phase induction
> motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark E. Hanson wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I was looking to contact someone at Schott Power for inverters and fast
> chargers and can't find their website or contact info anymore. Does someone
> know who assimilated them? What their new name is?
SPS (Schott Power Systems) ceased operations when their parent company,
Schott Corp, was bought out by a competitor. I believe some of the
assets were sold off, and are currently operating as HiRel Systems,
11100 Wayzata Blvd, Minnetonka MN 55305, 952544-1344. However, I don't
think they offer any service or support for SPS products.
The former President of Schott Power Systems, Ken Nicholls, was
operating a small consulting business to service former SPS customers,
but I don't have any contact information.
The SPS NEV chargers mentioned were a clever design, but poorly
implemented. It was basically a prototype that somehow got put into
production without sufficient testing.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, I said dubious for many reasons. One, they only have one T-rex. The
most amps I've ever seen out of one was 770 even though they were rated at
1200. Wet batteries at 1200 will sag enormously. Let's give them a major
benefit of the doubt and say to they only sag to four volts. That is 160
volts times 1200 amps which is 192,000 watts which is less than 200
horsepower factoring in losses. They have a single nine inch ADC. I have
raced with a single nine inch in circle track, road racing as well as
prepping one for Bonneville. We were running 336 volts of Optimas with an
early Zilla in a Ford Taurus at the Salt Flats and it only did 106 mph. It
took four eight inch ADCs to go 135 mph on the same 336 volt pack. Yes I am
dubious for the reasons stated. I will continue to state that I do not care
for BS. It is obviously a personal opinion.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
PS: When I turned that 11.03 run there were many astounded witnesses, mostly
gas guys!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Who says flooded lead is slow?
Hey, I'm taking your word for it that your 11.03 timeslip is actually
yours :)
Mike
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The performance specs are extremely dubious! It is so very easy to
just type
in your assumptions without any real proof.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SFEVA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 7:09 AM
Subject: Who says flooded lead is slow?
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/837
>
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You'd also want to consider just how to control how much current you're
delivering.
I mean, if you have a DC motor driving another, how does the load vary?
You can't speed up or slow down the motor much or it'll be completely
out of sync with the power line.
Someone mentioned what happens if the power lines go down and you're
powering the neighborhood. Well, it's not just that there's now "island
power"- that you're energizing lines that were supposed to be dead thus
presenting a hazard to linemen. If the power goes out, your motor is
now trying to supply all the devices behind where the power line break
is, which could include several neighborhoods. It's almost a dead
short. Hopefully your breaker will blow (shouldn't matter that the
current is flowing the other way). The shock of having that
motor-generator loaded at 1kW and then suddenly loaded at 100kW might
break something before the breaker blows.
Have pictures of somebody running their EV on a "treadmill" to turn an
induction motor, the power goes out, the neighborhood loads down the
motor so it stops dead, and thus the hapless EV goes crashing through a
wall and off a cliff just like in "Ferris Buller's Day Off".
Danny
Arthur W. Matteson wrote:
It would not need to be single-phase. Three-phase would also work,
provided the voltage was appropriate.
A three-phase motor would make it impossible to start the motor from the
grid, though (without extra hardware).
- Arthur
On Tue, 2006-08-08 at 10:19 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
use your test pack to run a DC motor. Use the motor to spin an AC
induction motor. When this induction motor spins slightly faster
than synchronous speed, it becomes an induction generator -- it
pushes the power back into the grid!
Mike Phillips wrote:
Would it need to be a single phase induction motor?
Yes; for generating single-phase AC, you use a single-phase induction
motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where do you live? Not in California, I assume?
Grid electricity is still extremely cheap.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 12:47:26PM -0700, Mike Phillips wrote:
> Do you suppose that Nimh has much of a Peukert factor?
According to:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZAF2DZ0hZJ0J:www.cobasys.com/pdf/presentations/Intro%2520to%2520NiMH%2520Batt%2520Tech%25208_05.pdf
PbA, and Lithium both have a Peukert effects, but NiMH does not.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
set ev mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:30:53 -0400, Jude Anthony wrote:
Shawn Waggoner (EV List) wrote:
On the topic of the FL Premier, I'd personally like to thank everyone
from the FL EAA that made it out for the event to help out and show
off the cars, but I'd especially like to thank Charles Whalen, our FL
EAA Public Relations Officer, for doing an awesome job of
organizing the whole thing.
<snip much well-deserved praise>
Great job, Charles! Going to be here for the Winter Park opening on 8/11?
Jude Anthony
Hi Jude, Shawn, and all,
I'm just catching up on 2-3 weeks backlog of list posts and emails. Thanks
Jude (I'll answer your question at the end), and thanks to Shawn Waggoner
for giving me more credit than I'm due. Shawn is actually the one who took
the initiative and got the ball rolling on our premiere EVent here and got
us the approvals from the theater manager to do all of this in the first
place. I just helped out with some of the organizing since I live the
closest to the theater in Boca Raton. But as with all of our Florida EAA
EVents, this was a coordinated team effort of many people, including Matt
Graham, Steve Clunn, Paul Liddle, and Lowell Simmons (who interrupted his
family's summer vacation and traveled a long way to be here to attend the
EVent), as well as Sony Pictures' South Florida Publicist, Lori Kalita, Marc
Geller of Plug-in America (thanks Marc, for the great job on the excellent
flyers and cards, which were a big hit), Polly Landess (Josh Landess'
mother) in Miami Beach, and lots of behind-the-scenes encouragement from
Chris Paine himself.
But first and foremost, I would like to thank Chelsea Sexton for the
tremendous effort she made and her great spirit of adventure (in more ways
than I care to relate!) in coming all the way here for our premiere EVent to
support the movie and our efforts to promote EVs in Florida and for sharing
with us her abundant energy, enthusiasm, and her wealth of knowledge and
experience in, of, and with the EV industry and EV community across the
country. Chelsea's presence, leadership, and participation in our premiere
really made the EVent and brought a higher level of media interest and
attention than we could have ever generated on our own. There's another big
feature article on Chelsea, the movie, the Florida EAA, and EVs in Florida
coming out this weekend, thanks to Chelsea. Chelsea's answers to a broad
range of questions from the audience were the best, most well thought out,
most polished answers I've ever heard, which I myself learned a lot from,
took note of, and have now been using myself with crowds in front of the
theater with the RAV. Chelsea certainly energized and fired up a lot of
people who are now contacting us wanting to get involved and asking what
they can do.
This movie is one of the best things that has ever happened to EVs. The
movie and Chelsea's presence here, together with some of her own local
connections that she brought, have opened doors, built bridges, and gained
us a lot of exposure with people and organizations whom we might not have
otherwise reached or connected with, including a number of local community
groups and environmental organizations, such as local Sierra Club chapters,
which have contacted us after seeing the movie and Chelsea. [In the
specific case of some of the local Sierra Club chapters here in South
Florida, I guess they must have somehow missed that memo from Dan Becker and
the national parent organization about towing the party line that plug-in
EVs are to be shunned, ... which just goes to reinforce my faith in
grassroots-level local organizations over national bureaucracies with all
their politics, infighting, co-option, corruption, and BS (with no
implications intended towards any national EV organizations, however).]
And what timing! When it rains, it pours! All of this is happening at a
time when oil and gasoline prices are again spiking ever upwards with the
onset of peak hurricane season and all of the ominous risks that portends
for oil production in the Gulf of Mexico, the Alaska oil pipeline has just
been shut down indefinitely due to leaks and corrosion, taking 8% of US oil
production offline for the immediate future, and two nasty, vicious wars are
raging out of control in the Middle East, threatening to erupt, explode, and
engulf the entire Middle East (with 3/4 of the world's petroleum reserves)
into a broader, region-wide war (sort of like how two big, separate
California forest fires sometimes erupt and merge into a single mega-fire).
Not that any of us would wish for or take any pleasure in such gloom,
however; far from it. It's just a sad commentary that it often takes such
crises of war, death and destruction, misery and suffering, and deprivation
and depletion to get society to change, open up to, and accept new ideas and
new ways of doing things. But out of adversity comes opportunity, and
specifically opportunities that we EVers *can* and *should* leverage and
took advantage of. Of course, for many of us, we will just continue saying
and doing what we have been saying and doing for years, decades for some of
the veterans among us, while now all around us powerful geological,
economic, geopolitical, and technological forces continue to gradually
evolve and converge in driving things in our direction and forcing society
over to our position and what we EVers have all known and understood and
practiced in our personal lives for some time. This convergence of forces
drives the media frenzy and our exposure in it even more, as the media
always seems to (quite logically and naturally) turn to EVs for answers
whenever oil and gas prices go through the roof like this. Fortuitous
timing indeed! The snowball is still rolling slowly near the top of the
mountain, but the momentum is clearly gathering.
But I digress. One advantage of having the movie open here in Florida
several weeks later than a number of other places around the country is that
we learned from and got some great ideas and much of our inspiration from
the experiences and successes of other EV groups elsewhere with the EVents
they staged for their own regional premieres, including Paul Scott et al
(too many people to list) in LA & Santa Monica; Sherry Boschert, Marc Geller
and company in San Francisco; Nick Carter in Santa Rosa; Stephen Taylor and
Don Francis in Atlanta; Dave Goldstein, Joe Lado, Chip Gribben and the crew
in DC; and especially John Wayland and the gang in Portland, which probably
served as our greatest inspiration. Emulation (or at least a worthy attempt
there at) is the sincerest form of flattery! After taking Chelsea for ride
on the wild side, Matt Graham put on a masterful performance with 'Joule
Injected' in the parking lot right in front of the theater that can only be
described as Wayland-esque in the breathtaking awe it inspired among the
assembled crowd of onlookers, including moviegoers, Florida EAA members,
stunned policemen, Chelsea, and many fascinated teenagers and
twenty-somethings. Matt and Chelsea really made the evening a double-bill
performance (or a triple-bill, including the movie). Hard to say who, if
anyone, was playing second fiddle. Kind of like if the Beatles and Rolling
Stones had played a joint gig together; who is opening for whom?
It is thanks to Matt Graham & Shawn Waggoner -- and many other high-quality
converters around the country, including some notable ones right here in
South Florida such as Lowell Simmons, Steve Clunn & Paul Liddle, and Cliff
Rassweiler -- that we have such stellar, high-performance EVs to showcase to
the public! Thanks to all these guys for helping to keep the EV dream alive
and make it a reality by being the only ones to build and put new
highway-capable EVs on the road in this country over the last several years!
As for the movie itself, I would just echo the praises of many others on
these lists who have seen the movie before me by offering my heartiest
congratulations to Chris Paine for his brilliant masterpiece, which I
thoroughly enjoyed! I have seen the movie three times and plan to see it a
few more times as there are more bits and pieces of the puzzle that I
continue to pick up every time I see the film. It was great having Chelsea
here, whose brain I was able to pick in asking her to explain various minor
elements and subtleties that escaped me. I also look forward to purchasing
a large number of DVDs when it comes out so that I can hand them out to
politicians and others with whom I meet and interact here. I wholeheartedly
concur with the Oscar buzz that has been mentioned by trade publications
like Variety and Hollywood Reporter and think the movie is entirely
deserving of an Oscar for the year's best documentary film! "An
Inconvenient Truth" was great, but centered a little too much around big Al
himself, I thought. We only got just a brief snippet of Chris' cameo
appearance in a helicopter fly-by over the crushed EV1s at GM's proving
grounds (what a paradox *that* is!) in the Arizona desert. Although Chris
himself was an integral part of the EV1 story, he rightly made the story not
about *him* but about the *car* and kept the focus where it should be -- on
the car!
The one thing I really did *not* appreciate was the lackluster rating given
to the movie by the brain-dead, generic movie critic in the newspaper down
here, who seemed to think the movie was too biased and that Chris was too
"heavy-handed" in "editorializing" at the end. It seems to me that the
newspaper movie critic is himself biased by his gross ignorance of the
subject matter and for not taking enough time to learn more about it. My
personal view is that Chris was very balanced in the way he approached and
handled the subject and the various viewpoints. He gave the auto and oil
industry executives and experts more than enough time and enough rope to
thoroughly indict and hang themselves, respectively, ... and they certainly
didn't disappoint and dutifully obliged on *that* score (and without anyone
holding a gun to their heads)! If only Alan Lloyd had been as as fair and
balanced as Chris Paine and had given as much time to EV industry experts to
make their case at the CARB hearings as Chris gave to the auto and oil
industries in his movie, the movie's ending could have been quite different!
Now, finally, Jude, to answer your question about whether I will be coming
up to the Orlando area for the opening of the movie in Winter Park on August
11, I would love to do that and would be willing to drive one of my RAV4-EVs
up there *if* -- and this is a very big "IF" -- *if* the theater in Winter
Park has a large open pedestrian area right in front of the theater
entrance, such as the big pedestrian courtyard at the movie theater down
here in Boca Raton, ... and *if* (another big "IF") you can get permission
from the theater manager for me to park and display my RAV4-EV there in
front of the theater entrance. It has been my experience, however, that
very few theaters have this kind of setup like the one here in Boca with a
big pedestrian courtyard in front of the entrance. Most have just a narrow
sidewalk in front that would be inappropriate for displaying a vehicle and
would block pedestrian traffic as well as possibly create a fire hazard. So
you would need to look into that. If the theater does have an appropriate
large open area in front of the entrance where I could park the RAV, as I
said, you'd also need to secure permission for me to park and display the
vehicle there from the theater manager. The other thing I would need would
be for someone to find and offer me either a 30A, 40A, or 50A 240V outlet
somewhere nearby in the vicinity of Winter Park. It's a few hundred miles
from here up to Winter Park, but that's not a problem as I've got some
enroute charging possibilities, and I've done 500 miles in a single weekend
with the RAV, which this trip would come pretty close to. I know this is
very last minute (due to my just catching up on a few weeks backlog of
emails and list posts), but if you guys up there in Orlando/Winter Park can
put it together, I'd be willing to bring one of the RAVs up there.
Best regards,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
Delray Beach, FL
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
