EV Digest 5743
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: You know you're a list member when...
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Discharge load?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Curtis Charger?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Subject: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by Chris & Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motor cooling, suck or blow
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV Status and Optima Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Save the Pasadena Eleven
by "Jonathan Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: questions from a newbie
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV1: 12 mile range?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Happy with Cut Fingers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV music
by Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Wanted 24-30 Saft BB600 Nicads
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Feeding power back into the grid (was Re: Discharge load?)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Status and Optima Batteries
by "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Drill the motor
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Are Anderson connectors always appropriate
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Philippe
I had a look at the Reva. Size would be OK (especially for parking) but
range & speed too low to be practical for me.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
Reva (G-wiz) are available in London, not a family car but probably a good
commuter :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
Geoff,
My main practical obstacle to building an ev myself is not motivation ,
it's
space which comes at a premium in the UK - it's a crowded island! I am
hooked on the idea now. Apart from the obvious environmental reasons for
EV,
petrol (gas) costs about $7.5 per gal in the UK! Most of this is made up
of
fuel tax. EV's are at least twice as efficient as ICE and circumvent both
the fuel tax as well as the road tax in the UK.
WKtEC has not hit the circuit in the UK yet but I know the jist of the
story. I think the entrenched oil & car manufacture hegemony shown in
WKtEC
is worse in the UK because of the amount of revenue the government raises
in
fuel tax. This was done ostensibly to discourage drivers from using their
cars and encourage them on to public transport. No-one can tell me that
the
government is not addicted to this revenue source and whilst paying lip
service to the environment will place whatever obstacles in the way of
mass
production EV's to protect this revenue. All politicians by definition
are
lying thieving corrupt bastards! The desire to be a politician should
automaticaly ban you from ever becoming one!
My rant for the day but I guess I'm preaching to the converted.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Linkleter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: questions from a newbie
> Ron, 2 thoughts
>
> (i) In my (limited) experience the cost of batteries is significantly
> higher in the UK than is often talked about on the list.
>
> (ii) If you are not really keen on building an ev I would have thought
the
> best choice would be to look for a Citroen Berlingo or Saxo EV. Either
of
> these would just about meet your performance rerquirements and they
> occasionally appear for sale, even on e-bay. There are several people
> on
> the list who can help you support one.
>
> You could even think about looking for one in France, where they are
more
> common, if you could live with LHD. Phillipe could probably help.
>
> Geoff
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: You know you're a list member when...
> "Now I don't care who you are, that's funny"
> Larry the cable guy
>
>
> >Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: You know you're a list member when...
> >To: [email protected]
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >
> >Hey all
> >
> > I had some time on my hands as I drove back from Portland after lunch
> >with Wayland and the usual motor run. I added some to those I had
thought
> >up earlier. These are in no particular order and I hope you enjoy, sorry
> >if I missed anyone.
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> >
> >You know you're a list member when...
> >
Hi Jim;
Good Ones! Can I add a few?
You have all the hills measured out in Amps in a 50 mile radius of your
home.
You KNOW where EVery 120 volt outlet is along your route.
EVerybody ELSE in your household knows who "White Zombie , Red Beastie,
Current Elininater, Maniac Mazda, Blue Meany,Goldie,And other wierd names
mean.And they have never been to the races<g>!
You remenber which ones you"killed" tripped the circus breaker, and
wonder if ANYbody has reset it, in the last few months?
AC/DC is a BAND? I don't have any of their Victrola records!?
1400 E mails? Hah have THAT many before I hit Chicago on my Portland
Pilgrimage. The Public Library people eye you with suspicion a few hours
into your session. Ya never seem to get that many when you stay at home!
My several "When" thoughts.
Seeya at Woodburn(PIR)
> >You think of the Geico lizard as a baby Zilla.
> >
> > You want to know what wh/hr the Everready bunny gets.
> >
> > You have a power outage and you hope Rudman's OK.
> >
> > You think of Bob Rice when you get stopped by a train.
> >
> > You wonder where the hell Wayland was "after" you blew something up.
> >
> > You realize that info by those who know how to spell, or do spell
check,
> >is worthless.
> >
> > You ponder whether anyone reads your posts after no responce to a well
> >thought out and typed posting, see above!
> >
> > You drive by a Hooters and wonder if Wayland's giving rides.
> >
> > You know AC / DC is a war and not a band, hehe.
> >
> > You Know Gone Postal is a racer and not another mailman fit.
> >
> > You know that Lawless Ind. makes parade floats and dragsters and not
bad
> >guys.
> >
> > The Mormans avoid your house as you'll talk for 3 hours about EV's.
> >
> > You find yourself at the Mormans house convinced you can convert them,
LMAO!
> >
> > You find that after a vacation you have 1400 emails to go through.
> >
> > You find 1400 more by the time you went through the first batch.
> >
> > You think of wierd ideas like making your bumper an electro-magnet and
> >being able
> >to hook onto that semi-truck, and would that be considered a hibred.
> >
> > Your moto is: I used to have a life, now I have a list, hehehe.
> >
> > You wonder if anyone from Florida will EVer build a fast EV.
> >
> > You vote for them at Drag Times even though they don't, LMAO!
> >
> > You consider yourself an EV'er even if you just have the donor body!
> >
> > You learn G'day is Australian for Hey.
> >
> > Death to all spammers is not just your feelings but another listee.
> >
> > Everytime you see a Prius you picture Rich in the back with a set of
> >jumper cable.
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> >rates starting at 1¢/min.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i would love to see amp flowing backward on my grid meter :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:24 AM
Subject: RE: Discharge load?
> Philippe,
>
> Oh yes, you can!
> But not a large system.
> Just a few panels to offset *some* (not all) your consumption,
> so the meter only sees a lower power draw, never a backwards power.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Philippe Borges
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:07 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Discharge load?
>
>
> Yes but modern grid "counters" can't go backward.
> For this reason in France we need a second special one installed by grid
> company to see amps flowing backward...
> no solar gerilla possible here :^(
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rush" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Discharge load?
>
>
> > Moving electrons across conductors doesn't leave much of a paper
> > trail. They would have a hard time proving you ever were connected to
> > their grid. So a lawsuit is unlikely.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cor,
> > >
> > > My elec co here in Tucson is Trico (www.trico.coop ), and while they
> > may never say it is 'illegal' to connect to their system without their
> > 'permission', it sure is implied many many times. Here is just one
> > instance from their "Sun Watts" Program.
> > (http://trico.coop/documents/sunwatts_handbook.pdf)
> > >
> > > "All ON-GRID customer solar electric generating systems must meet
> > the following system and installation requirements (e.g., systems to
> > be connected to Trico's electric distribution system)."
> > >
> > > So in my opinion, it is highly illegal, but I also have to say, I
> > know of no one that has been prosecuted for 'connecting' without
> > 'permissison'.
> > >
> > > In any case, I don't think it makes any sense to debate the 'merits'
> > of various elec co practices here... especially when they buy back at
> > the avoided cost and not at what we, the public, pay per KWH.
> > >
> > > Rush
> > > Tucson AZ
> > > www.ironandwood.org
> > >
> > > PS chek out my article in Homepower,
> > http://www.ironandwood.org/graphics/RV_PV.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:18 PM
> > > Subject: RE: Discharge load?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Rush,
> > > >
> > > > Check the back issues of Homepower for WHY they used the
> > > > guerilla tactic and what Homepower endorsed: it was always
> > > > stressed that it was guerilla because the red tape was so
> > > > massive that it could take years before a perfect system
> > > > could even be turned 'on' and sometimes it was made impossible
> > > > simply because a bureaucrat did not like it.
> > > > Often it was even to conquer the *illegal* refusal to allow
> > > > the grid connection, therefore the attitude of "we will
> > > > connect it anyway, because we know it is perfectly safe"
> > > > and the hoopla from the power company is only to cover up
> > > > that they should allow this, but they don't like it....
> > > >
> > > > The 'highly illegal' part is highly debatable.
> > > >
> > > > Cor van de Water
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got an cordless electric Toro, and it came with a slope chart in the
owners manual. You are supposed to hold it up and check the angle against
the slope. You could create a chart with different slopes to use.
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
I sent a generic inquiry to them a couple of days ago and haven't heard
anything yet. Will let you know if I hear anything useful.
BTW, how do you measure an incline? I was thinking of "charting" my daily
commute, but haven't the foggiest how to do this.
Matt
On 8/10/06, Ron Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Bob,
I googled the "Red Beastie" & it looks (looked) really good. What was the
recharge time on this configuration?
To answer your question, no mountains where I live just a few hills. The
steepest sustained climb is about 1:65 for about 1.5 miles.
I'm still trying to get more info on the Zebra battery from the UK
supplier
but no response yet. It seems like the home converter doesn't register on
their radar.
The specs of the Zebra look good. Their smallest battery configuration is
a
20 kWh battery and is about 50% size & weight if the lead acid
equivalent.
One battery pack will do the job & there is a lot of independent papers
on
the internet to show that it is good for an EV and should give about a 80
-
100 mile range. It's chief disadvantage is that it has an operating
temperature of 270º C (518º F). It keeps this temperature through
insulation
but if left standing will use about 14% per day in maintaining the
operating
temperature. I can live with that because I will use it daily (NiMH also
has
a high self discharge rate).
I suspect the Zebra (if they get back to me) will blow me away on price.
Cheers...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
>> Hi Ron an' EVerybody;
>
> I guess you are closer to the source of the Zebra battery? You are a
> quick train ride through the Chunnel, to France where more EV stuff is
> going
> on?EVen being able to buy an EV, and driving it back to UK.If you are
> ambitious enougfh you could build a "Red Beastie", Type of pickup. THE
RB
> toted 40 golf cart T 105's in the bed and forward engine room! Was
pretty
> much maxed out as a truk, but was good for towing or a reliable 100
> mile
> range. Unfortunately it died in Tony's fire that DESTROYED his EV Juice
> Bar
> and Motorcycle haven.Hey J Wayland! I have the salvaged tailgate, to
bring
> out to PDX, complete with scorch marks! The Motor- tranny lived, too,
it's
> in my van, too. It seemed a shame to torch the chassis as I think you
> coulda
> put a car body or another truck on it?Made a Black Beastie Bear ,
> sports
> car?A page from UNiversity of Maine. They used an S-10 chassis, for
> theirs.
>
> But, Ron, you arent alone. Their are other guyz in the UK into EV's,
> some
> are active List members, too. Check them out, as they are on the roads
and
> Motorways, already. Yeah, we need more "Motorways" here, only cars with
> MOTORS, no ICE's I think what ya have in mind is very do able. How many
> mountains ya gota drive over to get home? The OTHER ruling facter.
>
> Seeya
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Yes, you could make this work.
So here's the next question. Suppose your pack voltage is between 72V and
120V nominal. In place of that larger battery pack I mentioned initially,
hook a rectifier/smoother to the Curtis and plug it into 120V AC. Have an
under-hood DPDT switch in the car that lets you connect the pack either
normally, or in place of the armature. Do you not then have a built-in
bad-boy charger?
Next, add a simple voltage comparator circuit to turn off the KSI when the
pack reaches 80% or so charge.
Hook the 5K resistor across the Curtis' pot-box inputs and turn down the
Curtis' current control. Have you then turned the bad-boy into a
moderately-good-boy charger that's current controlled and turns itself off?
No separate charger necessary.
What do you think?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick,
This is probably one of these stories where the range gets lower and
lower each time it gets told.
The EV-1 had a preconditioning system, a "heat pump", that preheated
or precooled the cabin when the car was charged. You didn't need to
use the battery pack alone to heat the car. Just activate the timer
on the climate control system while the car is charging and when the
car is charged you leave the garage completely warm without even
using the batteries.
I bet this individual didn't even know that. How many other cars have
this feature? If you ran the engine in your garage to get the car
warm you'd also get a large dose of CO to go with your morning coffee.
"WKtEC?" is not a conspiracy theory movie. Chris Paine interviewed
people from both sides of the issue. It wasn't completely one-sided.
Even our arch nemesis, Dave Barthmus from GM, had his "15 seconds" of
fame in the movie. And that fellow from CARB had plenty to say from
his side of the story.
GM didn't try hard enough to bring the EV1 to market. They decided
from the beginning to only produce 1000 cars. Actually producing
1135. One lame excuse they gave for not letting the leasers keep the
car was lack of spare parts. Well, since they decided early on to
only build a limited amount of cars they only produced a limited
amount of parts. Part suppliers weren't happy about this since it
wasn't profitable for them. It was manifest destiny from the beginning.
This EV1 program is a prime example of obsolescence built into the
management of the program and not the car.
Proof of their lack of commitment in marketing the EV1 is the fact
that alot of people have never even heard of the car. They've heard
of Hummer because GM has ads and billboards all over the place. Even
early EV1 leasers complained GM didn't take proper steps to market
the car or open it up to new markets.
Has this person ever driven an EV1?
How could anyone say the car had below average performance or is a
"below average car" if they never experienced it? Alot of us has had
the opportunity to drive the car many times - and the EV1 as a "below
average car" simply doesn't fit.
Like John had mentioned a "below average car" isn't built with a
rigid, welded and bonded aluminum spaceframe enclosed in a dent/
corrosion resistent composite body designed to cheat the wind. The
whole car was designed for efficiency.
How many other "below average cars" check their own tire pressure?
I think these people including this individual has "below average
intelligence".
Chip Gribben
On Aug 9, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 9, 2006 1:47:41 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV1: 12 mile range?
Greetings all -
I am engaged in conversation with an individual who claims that the
EV1s range was reduced to only 12 miles in cold weather with heater
and lights on.
This isn't true, is it? If not, can anyone point me at any
resources to definitively refute this claim?
Of course, this individual also considers WKtEC to be a wild
conspiracy theory movie and that GM tried everything in their power
to create a successful EV and simply failed, producing only a below-
average car held in low regard.
While it may not be possible to convince him, others listening in
might be more educable if I can produce good sources with i's
dotted and t's crossed.
Thanks in advance,
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on 8/9/06 9:17 PM, John Wayland at [EMAIL PROTECTED] rearranged random
electrons to form the words:
> Is that why car magazines raved about the car? Is that why the leasees
> all raved about them?
----
Thank you, thank you, THANK you, kind sir.
This - and the other info folks have so helpfully posted - is exactly the
kind of data I was looking for. It is appreciated!
A follow-up question; what really is the story on lead-acid batteries and
cold? I know folks still use them in the cold. Can the effects be
effectively mitigated by heated battery boxes (perhaps similarly to
preheating diesel blocks, etc), or other means? Simply keeping the car in
the garage? I'd think batteries would have a pretty hefty mass and be slow
to change temperature. How cold does it have to get before simply
charging/using them doesn't keep them warm enough to avoid serious range
degradation?
Thanks everyone!
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The motor however was very warm... I will need to add some additional
air flow on the motor. do I blow into the brush end of the motor?
The brushes get the hottest, so you want the coolest air to hit them
first. The present setup with the internal fan does this (air goes in at
the brush end, out at the opposite end).
I located a small centrifugal fan at Graingers that can run on the
12 volt system that has 148 CFM at .5" static pressure. Should this
be enough assistance to help cool the motor?
That should be plenty! 0.5" is a *lot* of back pressure. At only 100
amps, and with the internal fan, a smaller one should still work. I used
a 50 CFM squirrel cage marine bilge blower that drew about 5 amps at 12v
on my 60v 160amp GE motor, and found that adequate.
I am thinking of changing my ratio from 7.93:1 to 8.54:1 overall.
could it also actually raise the top end by letting the motor spin
faster against the load?
If the controller is in current limit, raising the gear ratio will make
it go faster. If the controller is out of current limit (so the motor
voltage is whatever the pack voltage is), then raising the gear ratio
will slow you down.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
My SmartEV is rolling past 400 miles. Surprisingly, everything is working very
well. So far, my average trip is 15 miles, requiring 40% DOD. This is based on
13.1 volts / battery full charge and 11.8 volts fully discharged. Since getting
the pack stabilized (appx 15 cycles), the watt-hr/mile continues to slowly drop
to between 150-220 Watt-hr/mile for my daily trips. (10-25 miles, stop and go
city driving, usually 10-15 stoplights / day) speeds ranging from 0-50 mph.
The question I had was does anyone know the voltage at which the Optimas will
taper off quickly? I have been using 11.8 volts based on a literature search.
So far, between 13.1 and 12.0 volts, the performance has been very linear with
appx 2.5-3.0 miles per volt of pack discharge.
FYI, vehicle weighs appx 1800 lbs with batteries (10 Optima D31), 175-55-R15
rear, 145-75-R15 front.
$45 in savings over ICE gas costs for July !
Thanks,
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
...a good description of the induction generator, Chris.
Now, what Lee is talking about is running the motor sans caps. Thus the
exciter current is coming from the grid. If the grid goes away, the
power from the induction motor goes away (no caps=can't maintain it's
own phase). Add that to the generator trying to power a pole transformer
and you will probably have End of story really quickly.
Exactly. "End of story" as in nothing bad happens at all. No breakers
trip, no voltage on the AC line, no smoke, no fire... everything just
stops safely.
The worst that I could imagine happening is that you are driving the
induction motor with a gasoline engine wired at full throttle. The grid
goes down, the induction generator stops generating and freewheels, and
the ICE overspeeds and destroys itself from excessive rpm.
Hopefully all of this is correct and helps in the discussion. I'm going
to try and hook the Elec-trak up to 110 volts AC in a week or two and
see what happens. Will it just blow a breaker if there is no field (dead
short)? Obviously I can't have it spinning using the 36 volts as when I
close the 110 volts to grid there *will* be a serious phase mismatch and
things will go boom.
It should work. Just be sure there is a circuit breaker or fuse between
the grid and the slip-ring generator's output.
If there is a phase mismatch when you connect the slip-ring generator to
the AC grid, it forces the slip-ring generator to *immediately* move to
the correct phase. This will draw a fraction of a cycle pulse of high
current. It will make a loud "thump" as the generator complies, and may
trip your breakers or fuse. But otherwise, it won't hurt anything.
You are right about not wanting to do this with large generators! They
can generate some terrific mechanical loads (it's like popping the
clutch in an ICE car with the engine wound up). A little one like the
ElecTrak is just going to "lurch" momentarily.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin K wrote:
As far as your Elec-trak goes, I hope you're not going to try to run
your low voltage DC motor on 120 AC? It would hopefully just blow a
breaker. I can't imagine how it would do anything useful.
One GE ElecTrak option was an inverter, which was a rotary converter.
Basically, it is a 36vdc motor and a 120vac synchronous motor on the
same armature.
I don't think GE intended you to plug the synchronous motor into the AC
line, and use it as a battery charger. But, it would probably work. The
main challenge is that the synchronous generator has no provisions for
starting it from 120vac power. It would probably just shake and overheat
if you tried. You have to spin it up somewhere near synchronous speed
with the 36v power first, THEN connect it to the AC line. It will lurch
into synchronism, and then things work as expected.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
O.K., Lee, if you won't dress in drag ("Time to make the donuts") and
infiltrate Azure Dynamics <G>, then about wearing a dirty red bandanna,
ragged tee, dirty blue jeans, and birkenstocks? <G>
define:"Pasadena Eleven" -- Nissan is refusing to extend the lease on some
electric hyperminis.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
upgrade it ;^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
> Hi Philippe
>
> I had a look at the Reva. Size would be OK (especially for parking) but
> range & speed too low to be practical for me.
>
> Ron
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
>
>
> > Reva (G-wiz) are available in London, not a family car but probably a
good
> > commuter :^)
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: questions from a newbie
> >
> >
> >> Geoff,
> >>
> >> My main practical obstacle to building an ev myself is not motivation ,
> > it's
> >> space which comes at a premium in the UK - it's a crowded island! I am
> >> hooked on the idea now. Apart from the obvious environmental reasons
for
> > EV,
> >> petrol (gas) costs about $7.5 per gal in the UK! Most of this is made
up
> > of
> >> fuel tax. EV's are at least twice as efficient as ICE and circumvent
both
> >> the fuel tax as well as the road tax in the UK.
> >>
> >> WKtEC has not hit the circuit in the UK yet but I know the jist of the
> >> story. I think the entrenched oil & car manufacture hegemony shown in
> > WKtEC
> >> is worse in the UK because of the amount of revenue the government
raises
> > in
> >> fuel tax. This was done ostensibly to discourage drivers from using
their
> >> cars and encourage them on to public transport. No-one can tell me that
> > the
> >> government is not addicted to this revenue source and whilst paying lip
> >> service to the environment will place whatever obstacles in the way of
> > mass
> >> production EV's to protect this revenue. All politicians by definition
> >> are
> >> lying thieving corrupt bastards! The desire to be a politician should
> >> automaticaly ban you from ever becoming one!
> >>
> >> My rant for the day but I guess I'm preaching to the converted.
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Geoff Linkleter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:13 PM
> >> Subject: questions from a newbie
> >>
> >>
> >> > Ron, 2 thoughts
> >> >
> >> > (i) In my (limited) experience the cost of batteries is significantly
> >> > higher in the UK than is often talked about on the list.
> >> >
> >> > (ii) If you are not really keen on building an ev I would have
thought
> > the
> >> > best choice would be to look for a Citroen Berlingo or Saxo EV.
Either
> > of
> >> > these would just about meet your performance rerquirements and they
> >> > occasionally appear for sale, even on e-bay. There are several people
> >> > on
> >> > the list who can help you support one.
> >> >
> >> > You could even think about looking for one in France, where they are
> > more
> >> > common, if you could live with LHD. Phillipe could probably help.
> >> >
> >> > Geoff
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I hate to sound negative, but I've found that there's seldom much percentage
in arguing with people like this. I wish you the best in your attempt to
convert him. Maybe I'm just jaded after all these years, but these days I
mostly save my breath with such individuals. Life's too short to spend it
arguing. (Or as someone once said, I refuse to have a battle of wits with
an unarmed opponent. ;-)
But for the record, here are some thoughts.
Solectria built quite a few cars for cold weather states. They used battery
insulation and heaters, operated while the car was charging. These cars
were used successfully in cold weather with minimal range degradation.
Search the archives of the Solectria Yahoo group for more information.
However, GM never intended their EV1 to be sold in cold regions, so they
didn't provide any space in the battery compartment for heaters. (Or for
reasonable ventilation, for that matter. Lead hates cold and NiMH hates
heat; I read that GM had to route the output of the cabin air-con into the
battery tunnel for NiMH cars.)
As for being a "below average" car, that would depend on what's important to
you. If having a 500 mile range before fueling is the >only< consideration,
well of course it was below average. If acceleration, noise, handling,
control sophistication, efficiency, and emissions are your considerations,
the EV1 was well above average.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
So now that you've made all these modifications, what do you have? Range,
top speed, cost of operation, etc. ?
And is the Cushman overall a better vehicle than the old Comuta-Car?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't realize this! That's great - where do I get one? :-)
--
Martin
Lee Hart wrote:
Martin K wrote:
As far as your Elec-trak goes, I hope you're not going to try to run
your low voltage DC motor on 120 AC? It would hopefully just blow a
breaker. I can't imagine how it would do anything useful.
One GE ElecTrak option was an inverter, which was a rotary converter.
Basically, it is a 36vdc motor and a 120vac synchronous motor on the
same armature.
I don't think GE intended you to plug the synchronous motor into the
AC line, and use it as a battery charger. But, it would probably work.
The main challenge is that the synchronous generator has no provisions
for starting it from 120vac power. It would probably just shake and
overheat if you tried. You have to spin it up somewhere near
synchronous speed with the 36v power first, THEN connect it to the AC
line. It will lurch into synchronism, and then things work as expected.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was going to write the exact same post (Most appropriate song I bet
you've never heard) about Electric Version by The New Pornographers:
the sound of god is the screech of tires
lights and magnets, bolts and wires
strayed from the road, this very one
still to come
the sound of tires is the sound of god
the electric version
the power and blood will pulse through your song
just as long as it sounds lost
streaming out of the magnets
strung together like christmas lights
twelve whole seconds of history might
lead you from where you went off the track
welcome back
our electric version calls
you alone to create the full
spectrum of light
so what could go wrong?
just as long as it sounds lost
streaming out of the magnets
the card you're dealt by the crowd goes wild
make believe you are an only child
here are the clothes
please put them on
still to come
a new parade of faith and sparks
the electric version harks
back to the day when there was no wrong
just as long as it sounds lost
streaming out of the magnets
Steve
Matt Kenigson wrote:
Couldn't resist. Was planning on lurking for a while before my first
post
but I know the most perfect track that I bet most of you have never
heard:
Electromagnetism by Human Radio
(R. Rice/K. Kennedy)
i'm a modern man looking for modern love
cookieookienookie
is all that i'm thinking of
got a hot little number flashing on my screen
think i'll leave a little message
on her answering machine
emotion's out of style
we got something stronger
electromagnetism
all this love n affection just leaves me cold
you know a heart of steel
will always beat a heart of gold
n when it's all said and done
i can forget the name
although the software's different
the current feels the same
emotion's out of style
we got something stronger
electromagnetism
some nights i lay awake and wonder
about these feelings i've never known
so many people at my fingertips
tell me
why am i alone?
electromagnetism
On 8/9/06, Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is OT (Old Topic), but here's a recap and some new titles.
Jackson Browne - Running on Empty
Eddy Grant - Electric Avenue
Marcia Griffiths - Electric Boogie (AKA electric slide)
Digital Explosion - Electric Dreams (techno)
Master Zap - Electric Technology (techno)
311 - Electricity (metal)
Duran Duran - Electric Barbarella
Jimi Hendrix - Have You Ever Been (to Electric Lady Land?)
Queensryche - Electric Requiem
Deep Purple - Smoke on the Water (only if it's too deep!)
Metallica - Motorbreath
Beatles - Drive My Car
Cake - Satan is My Motor (more anti ICE than EV - "but under my hood is
internal combustion pow'r")
Cake - Race Car Ya-Yas
L'Trim - Cars With the Boom
Swingers (soundtrack) - Car Train (instrumental)
War - Low Rider (if you haven't replaced your shocks/springs)
Adam Sandler - Piece of shit car (befor conversion!)
Weird Al Yankovic - Stop Dragging My Car Around
> NoFx - Electricity
> Metallica - It's Electric
> Black Sabboth - Electric funeral, EV1
> U2 - the electric co.
> U2 - Electrical Storm
> Various - Electric Ave.
> Judas Priest - Electric Eye
> Oasis - She's Electric
> White Zombie - Electric head 1 and 2
> Metallica - Whiplash, EV related when riding in the White Zombie
> Metallica - Battery, EV related? probably notMest - Electric baby -
> could be applied to EV's OMD - Electricity
> Kraftwerk - Electric Cafe
> Moby - Electricity (should be good but can't remember hearing it)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I've got a shipment of Saft BB600's coming. But it will be slightly
less than what I need for a complete pack. Does anyone have 24 to 30
Saft brand BB600's that they can sell? I know they are all built to the
same mil spec. But even the manual says not to mix brands in the same
24v BB-693 container.
I'm in San Jose, CA at 95133.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
I don't think GE intended you to plug the synchronous motor into the AC
line, and use it as a battery charger. But, it would probably work. The
main challenge is that the synchronous generator has no provisions for
starting it from 120vac power. It would probably just shake and overheat
if you tried. You have to spin it up somewhere near synchronous speed
with the 36v power first, THEN connect it to the AC line. It will lurch
into synchronism, and then things work as expected.
Ok, but the light bulb in series till I am happy would prevent the
lurch, right? Fiddle with the DC voltage till light goes out, then close
switch, then pour on the power.
Chris
--- End Message ---
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From: "Phelps--
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From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Drill the motor
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:43:55 -0600
To: [email protected]
On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:40 PM, Christopher Zach wrote:
> So I have two choices: Either I can drill holes in the new encoder, or
> I can drill out new mounting holes in the motor.
>
> Motor casing is AL; I guess if I punch through I wreck it. I have
> drills and collets; what would you do?
Which part is more expensive - the motor or the encoder? Which is
easier to replace if there's a mishap?
Perhaps I'm missing something, but this doesn't seem like a very
difficult decision to me :)
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:11:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Are Anderson connectors always appropriate
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I'm still thinking about my wiring and I have a question about Anderson
connectors. I was playing
with the idea of putting an SB-350 connector between my pack and the contactors
so I could easily
disconnect the pack if I need to. Right now I'm having a hard time thinking of
a reason to do
this. Safety while working on the electronics? The contactors will provide the
disconnect, do I
need more than that? I can always unbolt the cable from the contactor, but that
leaves an exposed
connector hangin loose.
But if I do put an appropriately sized SB-350 in my 2/0 cables, will this
create excess resistance
in the line? It certainly will be more resistance than the cable itself. Do
Anderson connectors
heat up under load?
Much ado about nothing?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
