EV Digest 5788
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Engine and Motor in Series
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Gassers at NEDRA LNN, wasCurrentEliminator
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Another motor find
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Low Voltage DC EVs (was: RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New EV board !!!!!
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Danger den magII water pump
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Swiftech pumps
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Weird contactor behavior
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 96V or bust (literally)
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) False floor for cooling plenum?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: range rockers
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Real EVs on the road
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Painting battery boxes
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Tesla at the Central Coast Chapter of the EAA
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: range rockers
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: New EV board !!!!!
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: battery trailers
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) OT RE: battery trailers
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Painting battery boxes
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Weird contactor behavior
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:29 AM 23/08/06 -0600, Bill Dennis wrote:
I've been reading about the Hybrid Synergy Drive system in the Prius, which
uses an engine and two motors. One of the motors is in series with the
engine, and they call this the "torque" motor. Can someone give a brief
explanation of how an engine and motor in series work together? When the
engine is running at a certain speed, turning the motor's shaft, and then
you apply power to the motor, does the output speed remain the same but with
extra torque, or does the motor speed up the output shaft. It sounds like
the former, but I want to be sure I'm understanding things correctly.
Engine is running at 'x' RPM, generating 'y' torque and delivering 'z'
horsepower. If the load equals the delivered power, constant speed results.
Powering up the "torque" motor adds 'y2' torque, so the horsepower
increases. If this is in response to an increased load that requires it
(call it 'z + z2') then the RPMs remain constant, but if the 'y + y2'
torque being generated is in excess of the horsepower requirements, then
RPMs will increase. If 'y + y2' is inadequate for an increase in hp
requirements, then RPMs will fall. The normal behaviour of the system would
be to add just enough torque to add horsepower to meet the demand
(increased load or increased throttle command).
If I understand the Toyota system correcctly, the torque motor only kicks
in when more power is needed than the capability of the ICE and the
motor-generator combined, or to start the ICE. I have not seen anywhere
that the torque motor is doing dynamic engine smoothing like the Honda IMA,
but it could be.
Hope this answers your question.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Are only electric cars going to be running at the NEDRA late night
>nationals this weekend?
Hey Jack, all
I'm pretty sure both Friday and Saturday will have gassers attending (for
better or worse), with Friday being a for sure. I find you can't apprecate how
fast the electrics are untill they run against a gas car. We associate speed
with sound big time so when it's just the Ecars running they don't seem as fast
as they truly are. Rememer that the track will only be about 1/3 of the action
with tons of fun at the Wayland Juice Bar and the Village Inn car squat!
Hopfully Cya there
Jim Husted Hi-Torque Electric
PS: WTG on a great year Dennis!
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1ยข/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
This number brought up a page with two motors for me. The one with the belt
pully attached will have a viable shaft for those interested. It is also a
longer motor with more mass than the shorter female splined motor is. Anyway
the Drive (pully) motor would make a decent motor for a smaller conversion.
Sorry not great pics for me to pry my eyes into for true condition 8^P I'm
actually almost done with one just like it for Mcgill U. up in Canada for
another electric snowmobile. Anyway I just thought I'd chime in here for what
it's worth.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A BIGGER DC MOTOR BY RAYMOND Item number: 220019783201
I was going to buy this one, but I won't pay more than $100 for a used 36 V
lift motor, so here you have it. Happy bidding. I promise not to bid against
you.
Steve
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> If your EV can draw 48v at 1000a from the pack, over a modestly wide
> range of speed, then it is delivering 48hp *average*. That's going to
> accellerate a 2000 lbs vehicle a heck of a lot faster than a
> VW Beetle.
>
> Do a quick calculation. What is the 0-to-60 mph time for a 2000 lbs
> vehicle with 48hp over the range of 10-60 mph (can't have 48hp below
> 10mph or all you get is tire smoke and wheel spin!)
As a data point backing this up, my Suzuki Forsa/Chevy Sprint conversion
has so far peaked at about 45kW from the battery (120V of Optima Yts
into an ADC 8" via a 450A GE EV-1 SCR controller).
It weighs right about 2000lb with me onboard, and it easily outperforms
the orignal ICE version even though the EV-1 does not offer the same
sort of low-throttle current multiplication as modern controllers, and I
start in second gear. I will time the 0-60 time once I get the broken
(again) speedo cable replaced; as I mentioned in another thread, I would
be very surprised if I can't hit 60 in 10seconds or better - it really
does feel that quick.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Wonderful this will greatly help reduce the flood of e-mail. Thank you!
>
> David J. Hrivnak
> www.hrivnak.com
I don't get any of the EVDL in my inbox - I have the listproc set to
no email and read online at the yahoo group "ev-list-archive", or I
read it as a digest at "ev". I'd rather keep all the best EV brains in
one place, in *their* inbox if they don't have it set like I do!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the pump today and the 8W number is probably correct and the rest
of the information is probably the sketchy info. This thing is tiny,
and while it has 1/2" fittings, the exit port is only 3/16". I will try
it, but it looks like a scam.(that or it spins really fast and will make
a lot of noise) Actually I got a danger den tank also and it is also
questionable design. ports in back are so high and the inlet port is
down in so much that getting the air out is near impossible and the pump
looses prime.
The IOTA however looks like a mini PFC that hasn't gotten painted yet, humm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
Check the voltage rating on that pumps to see if it'll handle the "12v"
found in your vehicle. George Tylinski tested one like this in his car
and it died. He found out later that the max voltage spec was something
like 12.5v and his DC/DC was putting out a voltage closer to 13.2v. You
may need a zener or regulator to clamp the power to the pump.
Ralph
Jeff Shanab writes:
>
> Actually I decided to try the danger-den mag 2 pump, it is between the
> two swiftechs in stated performance.
>
> http://www.crazypc.com/products/93340.html
>
> but I am worried about the spec sheets on this site
>
> 2amps at 12V is 24W not 8W, probably a cut-n-paste error
>
> I will be going down to the UPS depot to pick it up tonight since the
> driver in my area has missed 2 arranged deliveries.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, Nathan's debugging my heater contactor while I try to get the motor
repaired. We couldn't get it to turn on while the car was all together.
He made some measurements with some mechanic's tool that lights green
when it sees ground and red when it sees power. The 12v coil was seeing
an regularly pulsing ground.
Taking the heater relay off the car and testing it straight from the
battery showed a constant ground.
Testing the feed wires from the dash without the heater relay showed a
constant ground.
Any idea what this thing is doing? And how do I stop it?
Thanks,
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I will probably have to remove all
> original controls, since I am (a) running at double the original
speed, and (b)
> running a primarily shunt-field operation. Even though I could use
it for adding
> or subtracting the series field, the reversing contactor has to go,
since it is
> a 48V unit.
That should have been "double the voltage" but will certainly give a
much higher top speed.
> Not sure what I'll do for charging, but I'll keep the emeter and
switch out its
> dedicated 48v-12v converter for one that can handle 96V.
I considered 2 48V teleco power supplies (240Vac-only), but wondered
if it is safe to use a 120Vac line controlled with an inductor to no
more than 5A (SAFT says no voltage limit if kept to that 5A max).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So whats the loss in range of draggin' around the original alternator off the
motor tail shaft? Can't you also get one with an
electric clutch (like on A/C compressors) that you could switch in IF your SLI
battery went low? This might fit more on the lower
cost, easy, but less efficient model.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:40 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
>
>
> I've done many EVs, and used several different methods to get 12v
> accessory power. There are *many* subtle factors involved, which is why
> there is no "perfect" solution, and so many different systems are in
> use.
>
> 1. A separate 12v battery for accessories. No DC/DC. Charge this 12v
> battery when parked, at the same time as the propulsion pack.
>
> - simple
> - cheap
> - no load on propulsion pack
> - requires a big 12v battery (~40 lbs, 30ah at 1-hour rate)
> - lights dim, motors slow as 12v battery runs down
>
> 2. A big 12v accessory battery, plus a small DC/DC converter powered
> by the propulsion pack.
>
> - cost of small DC/DC is offset by eliminating separate 12v charger
> - lights don't dim, motors don't slow for normal driving; but *do*
> in worst-case conditions (rainy night, heater, radio, etc. all on)
> - propulsion pack lightly loaded; slight range reduction
> - if DC/DC is left on while parked, sitting idle a long time runs
> down the propulsion pack
>
> 3. Small 12v accessory battery, plus a big DC/DC converter powered
> by the propulsion pack.
>
> - costs more (DC/DC cost more than savings on smaller 12v battery)
> - lights never dim, motors never slow
> - propulsion pack lighty loaded; slight range reduction
> - must leave DC/DC on while parked; 12v battery too small to
> handle parasitic accessory loads for long
> - small 12v battery tends to die early (from float voltage)
>
> 4. Big DC/DC, no accessory battery, large (>1 farad) capacitor.
>
> - costs more than #3, but eliminates battery and its replacements
> - smallest and lightest
> - otherwise, same as #3
>
> 5. My battery balancer; a 12v accessory battery, and a single DC/DC
> powered by the propulsion pack that is switched to whichever
> battery needs charging the most.
>
> - expensive
> - extends range by transferring charge from highest to lowest
> battery, thus eliminating the "weakest link"
> - 12v sags a little, but DC/DC periodically brings it back up
> (performance is in between no DC/DC, and full-time DC/DC)
>
> There are lots of side issues. Do you leave the DC/DC on when parked, or
> shut it off? Do you hold the 12v battery at 13.5v for long life, or 14v
> for normal 12v accessory operation? Do long idle periods run down the
> propulsion pack, or just the 12v accessory battery?
>
> The 12v system in normal cars is pretty bad. The voltage regulation is
> poor (varies from 10v-14.5v), so lights and motors *normally* vary
> noticeably during operation -- most people don't even notice.
>
> Automotive wiring has 1v to 2v drops between the battery and actual
> loads. They depend on the alternator to provide 14v so you get 12v at
> the headlight. With just the 12v battery (no DC/DC), you only get 10v at
> the headlight -- no wonder it's dim! There's considerable room for
> improvement just by replacing the stock wiring with heavier, lower-drop
> components.
>
> Automotive loads are also extremely wasteful of 12v power. The motors
> are only 50-60% efficient. The clock draws 100 times more than a home
> battery clock. The radio draws amps instead of milliamps. There are
> dozens of light bulbs which could be replaced by LEDs. Reducing power
> isn't significant as far as range is concerned, but it reduces the size,
> weight, and cost of your 12v system.
>
> You certainly could use something other than a lead-acid battery for
> your 12v power. It would cost more, but be lighter and smaller, and
> might last longer. Choose it for a slightly higher voltage, to make up
> for the 1v-2v drop. Nicads are attractive, because they don't vary much
> under load and tolerate being run dead.
>
> You could also use a non-isolated DC/DC, to convert your varying
> accessory battery voltage to a regulated 14v (or whatever). Such
> converters are smaller, lighter, more efficient, and cheaper than
> isolated converters, because they only have to handle the power
> *difference*, not the total power. For example a 14v 30a isolated
> converter handles 14v x 30a = 420 watts. A 12v-to-14v 30a non-isolated
> converter handles (14v-12v) x 30a = 60 watts; 1/7th the power means
> about 1/7th the size, weight, and cost.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lee Hart" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
> That's it Lee! I'm a closet Blues song writer. Now I have to make a
> song about EV's.
>
> Mike
>
> I can see this one on the List: "The Electric Car Blues" Lyrics by Lee
Hart, Band by Streve Clunn Electrify ing Sound group, "The Chargers!"Or fill
in a better name<g>! Now to think of a few songs that you could " Borrow"
the tune and add your own lyrics?
CD ready to buy at Battery Beach Burnout 07!
Seeya
Bob
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > steve clunn wrote:
> > > Larry who is driving my Toyota Tercel conversion and plays bass in
> > > Brian's band was late for rehearsal Monday night and when he got
> > > there the first words out of his mouth were, "One of my guitar
> > > student's dad just bought a Tesla!"... our leader puts his foot
> > > down and says, "NO TALKING ABOUT ELECTRIC CARS WHEN WE ARE PLAYING
> > > MUSIC".
> >
> > Take him some of my electric car lyrics for popular songs. Then you can
> > talk about electric cars and play at the same time! (Gas Hog Lincoln,
> > The Man Who Never Recharged, etc. :-)
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The height of the battery box is going to be 14" and the battery height
is 9.5" in round numbers. With that extra height, I was wondering about
installing a false floor and putting a blower in the box so that the
couple inches below the BB600's could be pressurized with air. That
would create an upward flow thru the small gaps between batterys up
into the top of the box. Minor cooling, but cooling nonetheless.
Doable?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those are some great efficiency numbers but without speeds, distances,
outlet to wheels or pack to wheels, attached they are just no that
realistic. Can those be added?
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: Real EVs on the road
> I would like to hear what folks are truly running on the road and off
> the road. This is not a discussion about why one setup might be better
> than another just the results of what is actually in use.
> I would also like to know what the drag racers are running but due to
> competition they may not want to post anything, I understand this. Any
> info is appreciated.
>
> If possible I would like to know vehicle specs:
Hello Nate,
Some of the data is post in the EV Album under GM, but it has not been up
dated, because of on going up grades.
>
> Type of vehicle?
The vehicle is a full customize 1977 El Camino which only the sheet metal
was retain and everything else was replace.
Differential by Mark and Williams using a 22,000 rated axles and 5.57:1 gear
ratio.
Suspension by Air Ride Technologies which can tilt the car side to side and
forward to rear or lowers its by four inches.
The suspension allows the body to have a soft ride, while having a very low
0.25 inch tire deflection with a load range of [EMAIL PROTECTED] which would
normally give it a rough ride with the air suspension.
Transmission is a very wide range 3 speed Saganaw that has a 3.5:1 1st gear
and a 2.5 2nd gear.
This gives a overall ratio of 19.495 in 1st gear and a 13.925 in 2nd gear.
Going to up grade this
a six speed that will have 3 speeds auto and 3 speeds manual with a starting
overall ratio of 35.0:1.
>
> Power train:
> What type of batteries?
Trojan T-145's 6-volt 260 AH with low profile
post that uses a battery post terminal clamps
plus a stud that puts down ward pressure which
prevents shrink back.
> What controller?
Zilla 1000 Amp
> What voltage?
180 Volt battery pack
> Motor?
GE-11 DC Traction motor with built in GE
transmission adapter - Series type, 165V at
175A - 6000 RPM double shaft - with
commentator poles.
>
> Range:
> How many miles?
78 miles one time to 20% DOD
> Average speed?
48 mph
> Top speed for how long?
92 mph for about 10 minutes.
> Worst range (maybe due to speed or hills)
39.5 miles in 22 stops and go city traffic
and going up a 7 mile inclined.
> Your best range and how you accomplished this.
78.5 miles on a frontage road loop around
the city at a speed of 30 to 40 mph.
> How did you measure you range and speed?
The odometer, the trip odometer and a Holly
computer sender off the driveline.
> Include the terrain you drive on.
Ranges from 0 to 10 percent grades.
>
> Recharge:
> How long do you charge?
Normally 20 minutes to a maximum voltage of
225 v at 90% S.O.C. which sometimes take me
about four days to get to.
At 80% S.O.C., its take about 30 minutes
and 60 minutes finishing.
> What charger do you use?
PFC-50B - 125/250 V at 50 amp. Charge at
50 amps DC - 225 volts which is 42 amps AC
at 250 VAC.
> Do you use regs?
No, would use them, but they will not fit
in the totally enclosed isolated vented
battery box.
80 percent of my batteries are still 0.01
volt of each other and the other 20 percent
may range 0.02 to 0.04 which I may balance
out every 6 months with a separate smart
charger.
>
> Other Specs:
> Vehicle weight?
The EV weighs 6860 lbs with the batteries
weighing 2160 lbs
> How often used?
Used every day about 6 times a days running
about 1 mile each trip and two 5 miles runs
a week.
> How many miles per week or month or year do you drive roughly?
About 52 miles a week.
> Best life you got on a pack of batteries and what were they?
The first battery pack, was 90 each 2 volt 300
ah cobalt cells, that had a cobalt sulfate mix
with the lead oxide paste, which hardens the
plates for a longer life. These batteries ran
from 1976 to 1985.
The second battery pack, was 30 each Exide 6
volt 220 AH which ran from 1986 to 1992.
The third set were Exide 6V 235 AH which ran
from 1993 to 2000.
Took two years to completely overhaul the EV
and Up Grade and install Trojan T-145's in 2002
which I am still running today. Should be able
to go to 2010 with this pack.
Roland
> Drag slip times?
>
>
> Feel free to add additional information on what is in use.
> If this information has already been done please point me to the archive
> or website.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Nate
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using the same epoxy coating that is put on sinks and tubs. I used the
recoating kits you can get from a hardware store. I use it on my fiberglass
battery boxes.
For steel you will have to sand and clean the surface before applying this
epoxy coating. My coating is now 4 years old and its still polish gleaming
white color.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Painting battery boxes
> I am putting battery boxes made of 1/16 sheet metal in
> an 86 Suzuki Samurai. Is there any paint that would
> protect them from the inevitable sulfuric acid?
> storm connors
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tesla Motor will be coming to the Central Coast Chapter meeting on Saturday
8/26 at 11am at the Aptos Library on 7695 Soquel Drive, Aptos, CA 95003
CTO, JB Straubel, will talk about the car. It is likely the Tesla will be
there to see.
"Burn rubber, not gasoline!"
Tesla is the newest production electric car, a two seat sports car, zero to
60mph in under 4 seconds, 250 mile range which you can put a deposit on now
for delivery next year.
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://eaacc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an interesting listing, but I have serious doubts about its
usefulness. It's not known
how the data was measured, calculated, estimated or guessed. And human
natrure being what it is, some of the data is probably fraudulent. Also the
data would
vary depending on terrain, speed and driving habits.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:02 PM
Subject: range rockers
some folks were asking for a list of the
more efficient cars at austinev, so
here you have all cars with over 7 km/kWh:
Rick and Bryan Woodbury's Tango
223.4 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
14.5 KWh battery capacity
104.0 km range
1181.8 kg
batteries: 22 Optima Yellow Tops
motor: Two Advanced DC FB-4001 9"
controller: DCP T-Rex
top speed: Est. 122 mph within 1/4 mile at 8000 rpm
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\211.html
Doug Canfield's Consolair
221.1 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
9.4 KWh battery capacity
68.0 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: twenty-nine Hawkers 12 Volt 27Ah (dead)
motor: 50kW AC vector controlled;
controller: Hughes Dolphin;
top speed: 72 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\698.html
Thundersky Leitian EV-3
220.8 Wh/mile
7.2 km/kWh
33.1 KWh battery capacity
240.0 km range
1180.0 kg
batteries: 46xTS-LCP9393A
motor: 15kW cont 30kW max
controller:
top speed: 110km/h
site:www.thundersky.com
Union County Career Center's Future Shock
220.0 Wh/mile
7.3 km/kWh
8.6 KWh battery capacity
62.4 km range
1113.6 kg
batteries: thirteen Optima model thirty-four yellow top
motor: 9 inch DC
controller: 1200 amp Raptor
top speed: About 100 mph or more
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\263.html
Steve Clunn's '80 Porsche 924 Turbo
220.0 Wh/mile
7.3 km/kWh
13.2 KWh battery capacity
96.0 km range
1727.3 kg
batteries: twenty 12 Volt group 31 flooded deep cycle lead-acid
motor: 11" Kostov
controller:DCP T-Rex 336 Volt 600 Amp
top speed: 75 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\388.html
Steve and Susan Evans' '76 CitiCar
216.0 Wh/mile
7.4 km/kWh
10.8 KWh battery capacity
80.0 km range
590.9 kg
batteries: 8 Trojan T-105 Flooded Lead-Acid 6 volt batteries,
motor: 6 hp General Electric DC Series Wound;
controller: series/parallel contactors with resistor
top speed: 38 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\158.html
Marc Geller's 2000 Ford Th!nk City
215.1 Wh/mile
7.4 km/kWh
11.4 KWh battery capacity
84.8 km range
960.0 kg
batteries: NiCad pack (550 lb/250kg, liquid-colled, 100ah,
motor: Liquid-cooled 3-phase AC induction, 27kW max
controller: AC inverter
top speed: 56 mph (90 km/h) governed max (faster downhill in neutral)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\469.html
Bill Dube's '85 VW Wabbit
213.3 Wh/mile
7.5 km/kWh
9.6 KWh battery capacity
72.0 km range
1295.5 kg
batteries: 16 Optima Yellow Tops (8 front, 6 under rear
motor: Advanced DC; XP-1227
controller: Auburn PWC1200-192
top speed: 100 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\014.html
Jay Lopes' 83 Ford Escorrt GT
211.2 Wh/mile
7.6 km/kWh
10.6 KWh battery capacity
80.0 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: sixteen Optima Yellow Tops in 2 parallel banks
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1221B
top speed: I have not taken it over 55 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\099.html
John Benson's Porsche 914
200.0 Wh/mile
8.0 km/kWh
12.0 KWh battery capacity
96.0 km range
1227.3 kg
batteries: Twenty Saft STM-100 Ni-Cad
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1221C
top speed: 85 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\042.html
Matt Peterson's '99 Lectra
195.0 Wh/mile
8.2 km/kWh
3.1 KWh battery capacity
25.6 km range
145.5 kg
batteries: 4 Optima D750S "Yellow Top" 12 volt batteries
motor: EMB VR24
controller: EMB Proprietary
top speed: 51 theoretical, 48 is my top speed so far
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\116.html
Blaine Wills' 1993 Kewet EL-JET3
185.60 Wh/mile
8.62 km/kWh
13.9 KWh battery capacity
120 km range
727.3 kg
batteries: twelve Trojan T-875s; 8 Volt Deep Cycle
motor: Advanced DC; 203-4002
controller: Curtis 1221 500 Amp
top speed: 70+ mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\483.html
Victor Tikhonov's '91 CRX
184.80 Wh/mile
8.66 km/kWh
18.5 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1536.4 kg
batteries: 28 D950U Optimas for now, Zebra Z5C in future
motor: AC induction, Siemens 1PV4133WS20, liquid cooled
controller: Siemens Simovert 6SV 100kW inverter, liquid cooled
top speed: Speedometer pegs, my guess 135 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\194.html
John Bryan's '71 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
176.00 Wh/mile
9.09 km/kWh
10.6 KWh battery capac
ity
96 km range 1136.4 kg
batteries: 16 Optima Yellow Top AGM batteries
motor: Advanced DC XP-1227A
controller: Auburn PWC600-192 "Grizzly";
top speed: not legally determinable
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\034.html
Citroen Berlingo Electrique (OEM Electric)
170.67 Wh/mile
9.38 km/kWh
32.0 KWh battery capacity
300 km range
1200.0 kg
batteries: FEVT EnergyPack 32 (32 kWh Li-Ion system with BMS);
motor: Leroy-Somer Sep-Excited, 11-20kW / 12.7m.daN,72kg;
controller: SAGEM 140V 200A IGBT 400A/600V based;
top speed: 100 km/h limited by OEM but will be cracked :);
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\641.html
Kim Bottle's '95 Solectria Force
169.87 Wh/mile
9.42 km/kWh
7.6 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: thirteen Deka 8G27 12 Volt sealed gell-cell batteries
motor: Solectria ACgu20 (3 phase AC motor)
controller: Solectria AC325
top speed: about 75 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\456.html
James Corder's '96 Solectria Force
169.87 Wh/mile
9.42 km/kWh
7.6 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: thirteen 8G27 sealed gell cell batteries
motor: Solectria DAC System
controller: Solectria DAC System
top speed: 70 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\540.html
ProEV Inc's '95 Subaru Impreza 166.32 Wh/mile
9.62 km/kWh
16.6 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1272.7 kg
batteries: eighty-eight 70 amp/hr Kokam Lithium Polymer
motor: two Siemans 5134WS20
controller: two Siemans 6SV1 AC Controllers
top speed: Tested over 120 MPH;
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\464.html
Wolf Sator's Sator Elf-Cab
160.00 Wh/mile
10.00 km/kWh
9.6 KWh battery capacity
96 km range
522.7 kg
batteries: 48V-200Ah EV lead acid gel (Exide);
motor: AC asynchron motor, 80 Nm torque, 7kW nom. 13kW
controller: programmable microprocessor, with regen
top speed: 45 mph (70 km/hr)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\341.html
Paul V.'s Porsche 911
156.00 Wh/mile
10.26 km/kWh
7.8 KWh battery capacity
80 km range
1068.2 kg
batteries: 13 Exide Select orbital AGM
motor: Kostov 11"
controller: DCP Raptor 1000 amp
top speed: 90 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\444.html
top trucks
Bob Gruenwald's '87 Plymouth Voyager Minivan
320.00 Wh/mile
5.00 km/kWh
14.4 KWh battery capacity
72 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: 24 Red Top Optima's
motor: Modified Reliance RPM AC
controller: 120 Kw Flux Vector AC Traction Controller
top speed: 90 mph, so far
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\377.html
Eric Lambert's '94Chevrolet S-10 White Angel
307.20 Wh/mile
5.21 km/kWh
20.0 KWh battery capacity
104 km range
2136.4 kg
batteries: 52 Hawker Genesis 32 Ah (2 banks in parallel)
motor: GM Hughes AC induction 3-phase
controller: GM Hughes AC power inverter
top speed: 70 mph (governed)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\230.html
Tom Stockebrand's '82 Isuzu Pickup
294.55 Wh/mile
5.43 km/kWh
32.4 KWh battery capacity
176 km range
2227.3 kg
batteries: Twenty Four Trojan T-145 Flooded Lead-Acid
motor: Advanced DC FB-4001
controller: Curtis 1231C
top speed: 75 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\072.html
Steve Richardson's '90 Mitsubishi Mighty Max pickup
288.00 Wh/mile
5.56 km/kWh
28.8 KWh battery capacity
160 km range
1181.8 kg
batteries: 48 Optima Yellow Tops
motor: Kostov Series Wound DC
controller: DC Power Systems DCP-1200
top speed: unknown at this time
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\026.html
Philippe's '00 Renault Express
230.40 Wh/mile
6.94 km/kWh
15.1 KWh battery capacity
105 km range
1100.0 kg
batteries: 18 Saft Ni-cad STM140, 6V-140A
motor: DC sep. exc.
controller: IGBT400A 108V with regen
top speed: 90km/h , 0-50km/h in 10s
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\331.html
other cars that have unusually high km/kWh for their weight:
William Korthof'S Honda EVplus
235.64 Wh/mile
6.79 km/kWh
25.9 KWh battery capacity
176 km range
1636.4 kg
batteries: Nickel Metal Hydride pack
motor: Brushless DC, 3 phase
controller: Honda "PCM"
top speed: 86 mph (governed)
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\086.html
Steve Clunn's '80 Porsche 924 Turbo
220.00 Wh/mile
7.27 km/kWh
13.2 KWh battery capacity
96 km range
1727.3 kg
batteries: twenty 12 Volt group 31 flooded deep cycle lead-acid
motor: 11" Kostov
controller: DCP T-Rex 336 Volt 600 Amp
top speed: 75 + mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\388.html
Doug Canfield's Consolair
221.08 Wh/mile
7.24 km/kWh
9.4 KWh battery capacity
68 km range
1818.2 kg
batteries: twenty-nine Hawkers 12 Volt 27Ah
motor: 50kW AC vector controlled;
controller: Hughes Dolphin;
top speed: 72 mph
site: www.austinev.org\evalbum\698.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Robert, there already too many forums for EVs. <snip>
This list is very popular and although this list uses older technology,
it works. <snip>
I do not see the benefit of yet another forum.
I have witnessed the aversion to a web based list. But I would argue that
there are many benefits when compared to a mailing list - especially for
dial-up users (I was stuck on dial-up for the last 1.5 years). A *general*
EV list with good search capability and a skilled moderator or two could
easily cut down on repeated posts, the endless quoting, etc.
Some benefits:
1) Discussion categories - so you can browse what's relevant for YOU.
2) Sticky posts - Great place to keep info for the Noobs, battery specs,
controller specs, etc.
3) Advanced searches - search by topic, poster, keyword, date, etc.
4) Automatic threading - follow a discussion without unwanted junk between
posts.
5) No need to search archives to find the beginning of a discussion.
6) Automatic notification if someone replies to a post you make.
Downsides:
1) Mailing list inertia. It really is difficult to get people to change
their ways. Even if the result is cleaner, faster, and easier to use. EVEN
ON DIAL-UP!
2) Slightly increased maintenance due to cyber attacks to the forum. I've
seen this happen on occassion - it usually takes a few days to have the
forum restored from a backup and the security hole patched.
I belong to a model airplane forum that sees hundreds of posts per day.
Even after months of not checking the forum (over 80,000 posts!) it took
less than an hour to "catch up" on topics that I was interested in. It
would have taken 10 times as long to do the same with the EVDL.
As a forum matures, there are less and less "newbie" questions as all the
relevant information is easily found through a search and is also listed
at the top of each category with "sticky" posts. Topics such as "AC vs DC"
or "Gel vs Flooded vs AGM" don't repeatedly flare up because the previous
discussion is easily visible.
If there was a way to automatically convert the EVDL archive to forum
format (and maybe have forum posts forwarded to the EVDL) maybe everyone
could be happy.
Adrian
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would you really want an engine doing 6000RPM? This is going to me noisy and
the engine will wear rapidly. My approach would be a variable speed engine
with 3000RPM max. David Sharpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chet Fields
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 4:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: battery trailers
>From their FAQ:
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_FAQs/FAQ_products.htm
16. Do you plan to sell range extending trailers?
Not at the present time. The range extending trailer allows EVs to operate
on
gasoline, as hybrid vehicles, for long trips. Although this is an attractive
prospect to EV owners who want to drive their cars everywhere, we do not
plan
to produce range extending trailers for sale due to regulatory and cost
reasons
(the prototype trailers with emissions controls cost more than $50,000).
Gaining emission certification for the trailer is very time consuming and
expensive and can only be done with the cooperation of an engine
manufacturer.
As an EV business, AC Propulsion has decided to leave internal combustion
engine work to others.
--- Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Their trailer is amazing, but how much would it cost to duplicate?!
>
> -Mike
>
> On 8/22/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > > Why aren't there any 2-wheel trailers with 2 hitches, where both
wheels
> > > caster or steer to turn with the car?
> >
> > AC Propulsion has an interesting take on the problem ...
> > http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/Range_extending_trailers.htm
> >
> > --
> > Mike Bianchi
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's not going to work. You have to have an inductor and make a buck
converter out of it, or at least a linear regulator. The linear reg is
inefficient and will make an incredible amount of heat so making a buck
is really the only option.
Danny
Jack Murray wrote:
I would add the option I've suggested.
2.5 A separate 16-24v battery for accessories. DC/DC regulates to 14v.
I'm thinking a simple PWM on a mosfet with output cap would work
as 14v regulator.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a 500cc 2 cycle motorcycle engine. They normally run 6k to 7k rpm.
6k is probably its sweet spot for efficiency,
however low that may be for a 2 cycle engine.
>From an engine wear standpoint this may not be the best, but for power/weight
>the 2- stroke will win. If they used 4- stroke it
would be heavier and maybe a little more efficeint.
Does anyone know if Kawasaki was one that tried fuel injection on a 2- stroke.
If so it might easier meet emmissions.
But then again this is OT since we WERE talking about battery trailers. oops.
Mike,
Anchorage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of David Sharpe
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:10 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: battery trailers
>
>
> Would you really want an engine doing 6000RPM? This is going to me noisy and
> the engine will wear rapidly. My approach would be a variable speed engine
> with 3000RPM max. David Sharpe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Chet Fields
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 4:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: battery trailers
>
> >From their FAQ:
>
> http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_FAQs/FAQ_products.htm
>
> 16. Do you plan to sell range extending trailers?
>
> Not at the present time. The range extending trailer allows EVs to operate
> on
> gasoline, as hybrid vehicles, for long trips. Although this is an attractive
> prospect to EV owners who want to drive their cars everywhere, we do not
> plan
> to produce range extending trailers for sale due to regulatory and cost
> reasons
> (the prototype trailers with emissions controls cost more than $50,000).
> Gaining emission certification for the trailer is very time consuming and
> expensive and can only be done with the cooperation of an engine
> manufacturer.
> As an EV business, AC Propulsion has decided to leave internal combustion
> engine work to others.
>
>
> --- Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Their trailer is amazing, but how much would it cost to duplicate?!
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > On 8/22/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Lee Hart wrote:
> > > > Why aren't there any 2-wheel trailers with 2 hitches, where both
> wheels
> > > > caster or steer to turn with the car?
> > >
> > > AC Propulsion has an interesting take on the problem ...
> > > http://www.acpropulsion.com/Products/Range_extending_trailers.htm
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mike Bianchi
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Powder coating is a type of epoxy. Incredibly good at protecting
metal. You do not use primer, in fact it is generally impossible to
apply more than one layer of coating because it only sprays on bare
metal due to its electrostatic action. It yields a completely
pinhole-free coating (no volatile components bubbling out as it dries)
and it's a very elastic coating. A part can bend quite a bit without
chipping.
There are some cheap yet effective guns for applying it. I have the one
from Chicago Electric, that's under $100.
You need to bake it on. This can be done with radiant propane heaters
for items too big for a common oven. It has a fairly wide range between
the minimum temp & time for baking the coating and where it will be
damaged from too much heat or for too long. It helps to have an
infrared thermometer to check the coating temp if you're using radiant
heat like this.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
I am using the same epoxy coating that is put on sinks and tubs. I used the
recoating kits you can get from a hardware store. I use it on my fiberglass
battery boxes.
For steel you will have to sand and clean the surface before applying this
epoxy coating. My coating is now 4 years old and its still polish gleaming
white color.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:36 PM
Subject: Painting battery boxes
I am putting battery boxes made of 1/16 sheet metal in
an 86 Suzuki Samurai. Is there any paint that would
protect them from the inevitable sulfuric acid?
storm connors
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:43 PM 22/08/06 -0400, Jude wrote:
So, Nathan's debugging my heater contactor while I try to get the motor
repaired. We couldn't get it to turn on while the car was all together.
He made some measurements with some mechanic's tool that lights green when
it sees ground and red when it sees power. The 12v coil was seeing an
regularly pulsing ground.
G'day Jude
A bit obvious to say this - but the ground isn't. More information required
- what else is in the wiring?
Is the contactor switched via the +ve? If you are switching the +ve, then
the -ve must have a bad connection to earth.
What contactor? it may have an economizer circuit in it that is doing the
pulsing, and a poor earth connection would complete the picture.
Hth
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
