EV Digest 5791
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: PFC-30 Startup
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Magnet for rim of S-15 Tire?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Painting battery boxes
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) NEDRA News: Late Night Nationals, NEDRA Awards and RPM Tradeshow
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: PFC-30 Startup
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: PFC-30 Startup
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: PFC-30 Startup
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) How 5K potboxes appear to work
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: PFC-30 Startup
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Magnet for rim of S-15 Tire?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Conversions in the Northwest
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Valence here, was The next evolution of hobbyist EVs ...
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Apple recalls 1.8 million laptop batteries
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) To genny, or not to genny Was: Re: Generator Trailer
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Test Lane is NOT Racing
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Engine and Motor in Series
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) BZ converter and moniter
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Apple recalls 1.8 million laptop batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Apple recalls 1.8 million laptop batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> The only problem Joe Ev juniors cannot compete against the ice juniors nedra
> set it up that way. D BERUBE
Ya know, at first I would say "Why the heck not?". Then I realize that there is
no EASY
way to make the rules such that the ICE dragsters would stay competitive ;).
Maybe there
could be a voltage limit, motor size limit, etc.
Maybe one day...
I would still like to build something like that and let her drive it... :D
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1 No if you are really connected to the pack. No harm done. The Amps knob
can be set to anywheres.
If you don't have it loaded... a full power turn on may over voltage the
power stage.
Good form is power up with the amps at zero.. dial in the amps.
Unattended... I hope you have it all wired right....
2. Yes.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: PFC-30 Startup
> Rich or anyone else who might know the answer:
>
> The instruction manual for the PFC-30 seems to indicate that you should
have
> the amperage knob turned to zero amps when you plug the PFC-30 into AC.
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1) Is it bad for the charger to have the amp knob already turned up when
> you plug in the charger?
> 2) If you did have the amp knob turned up, but had the overtemp pin of
the
> regbus pulled high when you turned on the charger, would that accomplish
the
> same thing as having the amp knob turned to zero?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was hoping to get a small powerful magnet to go on my wheel on my S-15 to
drive a reed switch. This would drive my little bike speedometer with a large
MPH readout to get me through the rest of the year or more with a working
speedo of some manner. Does anyone have any recommendation for where I could
find one that might fit a curved surface and be pretty strong?
Note: I understand there are other options but what I have seen are far more
expensive for a vehicle that will probably be scrapped in the near future. The
drive on the transmission is broken and the speedometer is also broken. I
already have a spare bike speedo so that is free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might also try Rhino Coat or Duplicolor truck bed coating. In my case I
used primer as a base coat.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am using the same epoxy coating that is put on sinks and tubs. I used the
> recoating kits you can get from a hardware store. I use it on my fiberglass
> battery boxes.
>
> For steel you will have to sand and clean the surface before applying this
> epoxy coating. My coating is now 4 years old and its still polish gleaming
> white color.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:36 PM
> Subject: Painting battery boxes
>
>
> > I am putting battery boxes made of 1/16 sheet metal in
> > an 86 Suzuki Samurai. Is there any paint that would
> > protect them from the inevitable sulfuric acid?
> > storm connors
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Echoing Jim Husted, John Wayland's and Roy LeMeur's enthusiasm for
the Late Night Nationals, I hope everyone can make it out. Jim will
have at least 3 of his new motors in vehicles racing and others on
hand for people to see up close.
Car and Driver Magazine will be there to cover the event and exotic
car journalist Ted West will actually race the White Zombie.
This is a fantastic opportunity for EVs so we should take advantage
of it. Also an independent film producer will be there to film the
event.
We will also be awarding the Ed Rannberg Award and a new NEDRA Award
to acknowledge "Technical Achievement" in the sport of electric drag
racing. There are folks who have devoted alot of time and energy into
building us products and/or services so this new award will honor
those people.
Unfortunately Chris Paine can't make it but Chris is actually one of
the sponsors of the event. He was so turned on to riding the Zombie
at the Portland premier of WKTEC? that Chris wanted to come up again.
For the race I made up some cool Late Night Nationals T-shirts
featuring the White Zombie and Gone Postal so those will be for sale
and I also made up a new NEDRA banner so people will know who these
crazy electric dudes are that invaded the dragstrip.
After the race Roy LeMeur and Father Time will be heading out to the
RPM Tradeshow in Indianapolis with the White Zombie, Father Time's
drag bike and some Jim Husted Motors.
The tradeshow will be another great opportunity for EVs because we
will be in the midst of alot of gassers since this is a tradeshow
devoted to racing engine rebuilding. We didn't go about looking to go
to this event, we were invited and the trade show coordinators gave
us a free 20 by 20 foot booth. So we will have NEDRA videos, the new
NEDRA banner up there, and tons of NEDRA brochures to hand out. I'm
sure people are going to freak when they see John's car and Father
Time's bike and see the videos we will have playing.
The NHRA will have a booth and one of the guest speakers will be
legendary drag racer Don Prudhomme. So NEDRA will have high
visibility at the show.
The new NEDRA brochure has also been posted on the website for easy
download.
http://www.nedra.com/pdfs/nedra_brochure.pdf
So there is alot going on in NEDRA land. Hope you all can join us at
the race this weekend!
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 1:26:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
Date: 8/24/06 1:26:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe Vitek)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
> The only problem Joe Ev juniors cannot compete against the ice juniors
nedra
> set it up that way. D BERUBE
Ya know, at first I would say "Why the heck not?". Then I realize that there
is no EASY
way to make the rules such that the ICE dragsters would stay competitive ;).
Maybe there
could be a voltage limit, motor size limit, etc.
Maybe one day...
I would still like to build something like that and let her drive it... :D
--
joe >>
You would be surprised Joe how hard it is to be competitive bracket racing an
ev jr or full size dragster.Battery temp,motor temp,battey charge,1st,2nd,3rd
4th runs on the batteries all change the predicitions.I find the ice
dragsters much more predictable.But please enjoy your girl running the 8th
mi.Shes
driving the future!!! Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, as I'm going to be wiring this up soon myself, I need to know how people
are doing this
successfully. I was planning on having the charger NOT connected to the pack
all the time, but
incoporate a pair of contactors to hook it up for charging. Is this over kill,
can I just leave
the charger wired to the pack all the time? If I need to disconnect the charger
when driving,
don't you have to have a failsafe way to make sure the charger is connected
first, every time? I'm
trying to idiot proof my EV, and I'm the primary idiot.
Dave Cover
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1 No if you are really connected to the pack. No harm done. The Amps knob
> can be set to anywheres.
> If you don't have it loaded... a full power turn on may over voltage the
> power stage.
> Good form is power up with the amps at zero.. dial in the amps.
> Unattended... I hope you have it all wired right....
>
> 2. Yes.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:54 AM
> Subject: PFC-30 Startup
>
>
> > Rich or anyone else who might know the answer:
> >
> > The instruction manual for the PFC-30 seems to indicate that you should
> have
> > the amperage knob turned to zero amps when you plug the PFC-30 into AC.
> >
> > Two questions:
> >
> > 1) Is it bad for the charger to have the amp knob already turned up when
> > you plug in the charger?
> > 2) If you did have the amp knob turned up, but had the overtemp pin of
> the
> > regbus pulled high when you turned on the charger, would that accomplish
> the
> > same thing as having the amp knob turned to zero?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Leave it connected to the pack at all the times!!!
It's fuse protected...
Dissconnect only when storing for long periods.
No precharge needed.... Just Jack it into the pack and tune it up and forget
it!!
You won't be running it from the Grid... while driving I hope??
Mine are hooked up all the time... Like Goldie is right now!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: PFC-30 Startup
> Ok, as I'm going to be wiring this up soon myself, I need to know how
people are doing this
> successfully. I was planning on having the charger NOT connected to the
pack all the time, but
> incoporate a pair of contactors to hook it up for charging. Is this over
kill, can I just leave
> the charger wired to the pack all the time? If I need to disconnect the
charger when driving,
> don't you have to have a failsafe way to make sure the charger is
connected first, every time? I'm
> trying to idiot proof my EV, and I'm the primary idiot.
>
> Dave Cover
>
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > 1 No if you are really connected to the pack. No harm done. The Amps
knob
> > can be set to anywheres.
> > If you don't have it loaded... a full power turn on may over voltage
the
> > power stage.
> > Good form is power up with the amps at zero.. dial in the amps.
> > Unattended... I hope you have it all wired right....
> >
> > 2. Yes.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:54 AM
> > Subject: PFC-30 Startup
> >
> >
> > > Rich or anyone else who might know the answer:
> > >
> > > The instruction manual for the PFC-30 seems to indicate that you
should
> > have
> > > the amperage knob turned to zero amps when you plug the PFC-30 into
AC.
> > >
> > > Two questions:
> > >
> > > 1) Is it bad for the charger to have the amp knob already turned up
when
> > > you plug in the charger?
> > > 2) If you did have the amp knob turned up, but had the overtemp pin
of
> > the
> > > regbus pulled high when you turned on the charger, would that
accomplish
> > the
> > > same thing as having the amp knob turned to zero?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Bill Dennis
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's what I'm planning:
1) Two plugs are permanently attached to each other at 90-degree angle.
When one points straight down, the other points horizontally.
2) The straight-down plug will connect into a female receptacle the charger
to the pack.
3) The horizontal plug will connect the charger to a NEMA 14-30 extension
cord receptacle which goes to the wall AC outlet.
4) The female part of the extension cord is attached to a slider which lets
it move horizontally on a base.
5) The same base has a female receptacle permanently attached which
connects to the pack. This receptacle points straight up out of the base.
The procedure is as follows, which should prevent the AC being plugged in
while the pack isn't plugged it. And it should also force you to unplug the
AC before the back can be unplugged.
1) Push the pack male plug down into the female receptacle on the block,
connecting charger to pack.
2) Slide the AC receptacle into the AC plug, connecting charger to AC.
Now, you can't get the DC male plug out until you unplug the AC plug by
sliding the AC female away.
To remove, reverse the procedure:
1) Slide the AC female receptacle away from the AC plug.
2) Pull out the male plug from the female pack receptacle.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 Startup
Ok, as I'm going to be wiring this up soon myself, I need to know how people
are doing this
successfully. I was planning on having the charger NOT connected to the pack
all the time, but
incoporate a pair of contactors to hook it up for charging. Is this over
kill, can I just leave
the charger wired to the pack all the time? If I need to disconnect the
charger when driving,
don't you have to have a failsafe way to make sure the charger is connected
first, every time? I'm
trying to idiot proof my EV, and I'm the primary idiot.
Dave Cover
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1 No if you are really connected to the pack. No harm done. The Amps knob
> can be set to anywheres.
> If you don't have it loaded... a full power turn on may over voltage
the
> power stage.
> Good form is power up with the amps at zero.. dial in the amps.
> Unattended... I hope you have it all wired right....
>
> 2. Yes.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 11:54 AM
> Subject: PFC-30 Startup
>
>
> > Rich or anyone else who might know the answer:
> >
> > The instruction manual for the PFC-30 seems to indicate that you should
> have
> > the amperage knob turned to zero amps when you plug the PFC-30 into AC.
> >
> > Two questions:
> >
> > 1) Is it bad for the charger to have the amp knob already turned up
when
> > you plug in the charger?
> > 2) If you did have the amp knob turned up, but had the overtemp pin of
> the
> > regbus pulled high when you turned on the charger, would that accomplish
> the
> > same thing as having the amp knob turned to zero?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've taken a look at the curtis schematic that Otmar has on his site,
and the potbox circuit is something like this:
[CRAPPY ASCII SCHEMATIC -- USE FIXED-WIDTH FONT!]
VSD VSD
| |
/ |
\ 2.67K +--|>--+
/ | Diode lm324 (voltage follower)
| 10K | |\
+----------/\/\/--+--------------|+\
| | | |---+---
/ = .1uF +----|-/ |
\ <+ 5K | | |/ |
/ | Potbox GND | |
| +-----------+
|
|
|
/
\ 976 Ohm
/
|
GND
Note that the 5K pot is the only component outside of the controller.
In this configuration, the potbox is part of a voltage divider circuit.
The throttle voltage at the 0K and 5K positions of the potbox are 27%
and 69% of VSD. Assuming VSD is (for sake of argument) 12V, then the
low voltage (throttle off) will be 3.24V, and the high voltage (full
throttle) will be 8.28.
I figure the range is setup so that the controller can sense an open
throttle potbox, whereas a shorted potbox would mean zero throttle.
This means that (at least for the Curtis 1221B), you CAN use a voltage
for the throttle, provided that it's a low impedance output (perhaps
buffered via an op-amp), and that the voltages are compatible with
whatever the internal voltage ref (VSD) is.
Joe Vitek wrote:
The direction isn't difficult. If you have your basic slotted disk and
use two light sensors that are 90degrees out-of-phase (WRT the slot
pulses, not the circumference of the sensor), you can easily implement a
circuit that gives out a direction and pulse outputs. They old-school
mice that had a rubber ball in them worked this way.
Ah, very cool. I didn't think of phasing two in different positions. Hey, I am
an RF guy!
Thanks for the quick response.
The difficult part in the implementation is creating a circuit that
pretends to be a rheostat/pot, _and_ making sure that when it changes
it's resistance, that it does so smoothly.
Since it will all be quantized, you can't really get away from the discrete
steps, but if
you have enough of them, it will be relatively smooth? If you use it to control
a current
mode D/A, say, 4-20mA maybe? ;)
--
joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> While working on my next project, I realize there are a few places where
> an electrical/mechanical hobbyist can make some money:
Wait! There's a lot more:
- Electric a/c compressors for EVs
- DC-to-DC that produce *plenty* of juice AND keep the aux battery charged
Something(s) else I forgot?
> Unfortunately since I do not have the power electronics or motor building
> experience, I would have no clue how to build this. Any takers?
I know that at least one person is willing to bet a significant amount of
personal funds on EV technology, those who are currently selling EV
technology rather stick to 'proven' technology and AFAIK are not willing
to invest into other developments, even if it would just be an E-Meter
serial isolator.
Just like BigOil :D
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/24/06 2:05:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: PFC-30 Startup
Date: 8/24/06 2:05:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rich Rudman)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Leave it connected to the pack at all the times!!!
It's fuse protected...
Dissconnect only when storing for long periods.
No precharge needed.... Just Jack it into the pack and tune it up and forget
it!!
You won't be running it from the Grid... while driving I hope??
Mine are hooked up all the time... Like Goldie is right now!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro >>
Rich my street/strip S10 is more than half done now,wiring will start in the
next month or so.As you know I bought a pfc20 from you a while back and you
already know it will be hooked to the pack at all times.Questions I have: Is
there any draw on the pack when the charger is pluged in without any ac on the
input? Since this truck will have a small ice welder/generator on board(Truck
has a welding rig bed and I am in the welder repair business/good for my pr)can
I have the genset runing powering your charger while runing the truck down the
street/strip? Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got some super high power neo magnets from ACE Hardware. I had a hell of
a time, to get them off the hook in the store. Than they would grap every
thing that come in with 3 inches of them.
They came 6 to a package all stuck together. I had to use a sharp knife to
split them and then still could not pull them off the knife. I had to slide
them off the knife at a 90 degree angle, but some of them zoom back together
again.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: Magnet for rim of S-15 Tire?
> I was hoping to get a small powerful magnet to go on my wheel on my
> S-15 to drive a reed switch. This would drive my little bike speedometer
> with a large MPH readout to get me through the rest of the year or more
> with a working speedo of some manner. Does anyone have any recommendation
> for where I could find one that might fit a curved surface and be pretty
> strong?
>
> Note: I understand there are other options but what I have seen are far
> more expensive for a vehicle that will probably be scrapped in the near
> future. The drive on the transmission is broken and the speedometer is
> also broken. I already have a spare bike speedo so that is free.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We can reverse engineer the dc-dc on the USE vehicles. It's 100 amps
peak, 80 amps contiuous at 14v from 400vdc down to what ever you want I
think. They are all just analog hardware. Nice and DC like :)
Mike
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > While working on my next project, I realize there are a few places
> where
> > an electrical/mechanical hobbyist can make some money:
>
> Wait! There's a lot more:
>
> - Electric a/c compressors for EVs
> - DC-to-DC that produce *plenty* of juice AND keep the aux battery
> charged
>
> Something(s) else I forgot?
>
> > Unfortunately since I do not have the power electronics or motor
> building
> > experience, I would have no clue how to build this. Any takers?
>
> I know that at least one person is willing to bet a significant
> amount of
> personal funds on EV technology, those who are currently selling EV
> technology rather stick to 'proven' technology and AFAIK are not
> willing
> to invest into other developments, even if it would just be an
> E-Meter
> serial isolator.
>
> Just like BigOil :D
>
> Michaela
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I admire all your efforts and GREAT posts John.I have never seen a ice Datsun
as fast as your ev Datsun is on the dragstrip.You seem to be the quickest car
on the track most nights,I have never heard you losing a race.As you know I
am building a 1987 S10 pickup with a welding bed and on board welder.It will be
a daily street drIven service truck having a single series motor (less mass
than your twin)It will be much heavier than your quick Datsun,with much less
areo dynamics a smaller less powerful hawker genis 26ah battery pack and a
single Z2khv.It also will be NHRA certified to run 10.0,but I am sure it wont
come
close.Do you think we could run each other soonnnnnn HEADS UP? Dennis
Berube meet you half way by the end of the year!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis, I have countered this in the past and you still continue with the
same lie. NEDRA had nothing to do with that rule. That was made by the NHRA.
NEDRA was however responsible for getting electric Junior Dragster approved
by the NHRA. Please stick to the truth when talking about NEDRA.
Roderick Wilde
Marketing Director
National Electric Drag Racing Association
www.nedra.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
In a message dated 8/24/06 9:47:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: RE: World's First Electric Junior Dragster
Date: 8/24/06 9:47:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joe Vitek)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
> I came across this while doing research. It is the blue dragster near
> the
> middle. Read the link. http://www.1134.org/adventures/dragrace/
That is too cool! I like the junior dragster idea, but an ELECTRIC junior
dragster for my
daughter would rock!
--
joe >>
The only problem Joe Ev juniors cannot compete against the ice juniors
nedra
set it up that way. D BERUBE
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll forward to you a customer that has a BMW 318 fastback they'd like to
get 50 mile range out of. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: Conversions in the Northwest
> Lawrence,
> Perhaps it's time to change my list ID to what I really do.
> I am Northwest Electric Vehicles and am involved with conversions on a
daily
> basis.
> Currently I'm doing a Porsche 914 that is turning out quite nice. 240V
> Odyssey/ Zilla/PFC-30/BMS/Hi-Torque tweaked 9"/ and much more.
>
> Corvallis Oregon is quite the place to be right now with Otmar (Café
> Electric) here, and EV interest expanding every day. My facility is fully
> equipped, and I look forward to working with folks who want to own well
> crafted custom or semi-custom machines.
>
> Looking forward to seeing all of you at PIR tomorrow night!!
> Watch for the man with the stick...that would be me.
>
> Richard Rau
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:04 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Conversions in the Northwest
>
> Who is doing conversions in the Northwest? I'm just doing EV work locally
> here in the San Francisco Bay area but there are people in the Oregon/
> Washington area that want cars done. Roderick do you have
> recommendations????
>
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If you look at wrestling(Olympic) or boxing you don't go up against a more
or less powerful fighter. There are weight classes. In sailboat racing
there are classes. There are also handicap classes. In golf there is
handicapping and as well in horse racing but that's for betting. Bracket
racing is in that vane. It seems to me the precise setup in most EV's is
very predictible which makes for a good bracket racer. Skill is skill.
Winning is winning. Head to head or Bracket. It's all good. It's all
interesting. What's boring is for someone to just blow someone else away.
It just doesn't have any drama. In Bracket racing whoever crosses first it
the winner. It's setup to have close finishes. Yes leaving a Vette in the
dust has it's appeal but to be honest I like to watch a photo finish. What
would be really hot is to have classes setup with the same components or
specifications. With all the variability of EV's a 96v built
electroautomotive.com kit vs. an 8 motor 96v Etek would be night and day
and not a race. A race to me is if both party's have a chance of winning.
But that's just my humble opinion. Lawrence Rhodes....
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My UEV-18XPs have been sitting for 3 months on shelving in my garage, flashing
like very expensive fire flies, also to go into a Plug-in Prius.
And yesterday I received some very nice looking Delta-Q charger units for
charging the 115V Valence pack and also 88V (11 of 8V 146 A-hr AGM Golf cart
size) and 96V (16 of 6V AGM Golf cart size) Sacred Sun battery packs. My
garage and basement are getting as full of good EV development products as my
bank account is getting empty..... got to prepare to help with transportation
solutions as we head towards the peak oil and Power Down era.
Best Regards,
Doug
>
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/08/24 Thu PM 02:21:47 EST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: The next evolution of hobbyist EVs - there is money to be made
>
> Hey Side note folks
>
> I have a pack of Valence U24 modules that are going into a VW Bug and a
> PiPrius kit this week.
> Lots to talk about little time for now.
> Clearly I will have the U Charge hooked up to a PFC charger and then to the
> PiPrius control system.
>
> So..... I am rather excited that Kent Bakke of the Seattle EV assosiation
> is having me do the system build up.
>
> Pricey is a Understatment...
> Available is the obvious improvment.
> Lithium is here... it's sitting on my shop's floor taking up room.
> Yea Baaabeeeee!!!
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
>
>
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Dell confirmed that the problem is manufacturing contamination. Metal
particles remained in the cell causing shorts across the separator.
The problem is inside the cell, so, no amount of BMS could prevent the
problem.
The cells are made by Sony. Makes you wonder if Sony (the inventor of
LiIon batteries) and one of the best consumer product manufacturers
could not nail the manufacturing process, who else could, doesn't it?
I wonder what impact would these recalls have on Tesla and AC
Propulsion since they both actively advertise their systems use laptop
computer LiIon batteries.
This is one of the main reasons AIR Lab decided to focus on the robust
Nimh battery. The last thing we need is an EV that burst into flame
on the freeway. The local and national news would love to cover and
exaggerate this.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
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David and All,
Here we go again! With all due respect, I think you can have your cake and
eat it to, depending on how much you need to run the genny. I believe the
last time I posted about this was on April 9th (included below). As I've
said before, I have used a genny as a range extender for the truck, and
running the numbers with a dedicated kilowatt-hour meter on the truck since
the pack was new: 22,786 miles total on the pack using 13,221
kilowatt-hours (that's 580 watt-hours/mile at the outlet for those of you
paying attention), 254 kilowatt-hours using the genny, comes out to be 2%
of the total time. Because my pack needs replaced, I've re-insured and
licensed an old gasser to pull trailers, which is when I used the genny for
the most part. Now without running the numbers, my gut feeling is that
having to have a second vehicle, licensed and insured, to drive 2% of the
time, isn't worth it and I don't feel bad about running the genny. Besides,
for my 60 mile round trip run to the dump, the gasser I'm now using get's
about 10 (gasoline) miles per gallon and has no pollution controls (it does
have a PCV valve!). As I recall, I was getting two 60 mile trips out of two
20 pound propane tanks, and they hold about four gallons, so eight gallons
of propane per 120 miles. As an occasional propane range extender, this
doesn't seem excessive.
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:39:51 -0400
>
>Engine driven gensets will vary in emissions. Anything you can buy at your
>local Home Depot will be a gross polluter. (Yes, I realize that people's
>concern for their personal vehicles' emissions varies. I suppose too that
>some states/regions are more aggressive that others about emissions laws.)
>
>Some people claim that certain industrial engines can be tuned for lower
>emissions. Perhaps true, but none of them is likely to match a well-
>designed, microprocessor controlled automobile engine, one which is
>programmed to light up a warning light when its emissions control system is
>failing. I say this because by law the automakers have a much tougher
>standard to meet. It's not much in the nature of industrial engine builders
>to meet legal standards that don't apply to their products. ;-)
>
>So, if you insist on using a genset trailer, you can still be relatively
>clean by using the ICE from your conversion on it, with all emissions
>control gear intact.
>
>The simplest and most efficient means of dealing with the range problem is
>to keep an EV for short trips and an ICE for long trips. This is assuming
>you have the space and can afford the license and insurance. Alternatives
>are to rent an ICE when it's needed, or to share an ICE with someone. This
>latter can be done informally, by private agreement, or through a commercial
>car-share scheme.
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:45:16 -0600
>To: EVDL
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: A cleaner EV genset.
>
>Peter and All,
>You have a valid point about propane conversions that aren't done
>correctly, but the conversion kit I mentioned in my original post comes
>with an oversized regulator that has an idle mixture adjustment, and a
>load block (needle and seat) assembly to adjust the mixture under load
>(url below). I should have mentioned this, but I sometimes forget that not
>all the people on this list are recovering gear-heads and could easily do
>a conversion themselves! So, in addition to my comment about "if you can't
>afford a diesel engine...", if you don't feel comfortable doing a propane
>conversion, then you could pay a certified company to do the conversion or
>buy a propane genny, if that's the route you want to take.
>BB
>
>>Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 10:11:30 -0700 (MST)
>>From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>Actually, propane /can/ burn cleaner than gasoline, but it's not a given.
>>Propane conversions can, and often do, pollute MORE than gasoline engines.
>>
>>In fact most home conversions of automobiles ended up polluting MORE than
>>they did as gasoline burners which is why it is currently ILLEGAL to
>>convert a car to propane (in the USA) unless you are a certified converter
>>AND you have to get certification for every vehicle you convert.
><snippage>
>
>
>>Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:17:06 -0600
>>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Subject: Re: 3kw genset for $315
>>Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:17:06 -0600
>>
>>Bruce,
>>I would suggest that if you MUST run a genny and can't afford a diesel
>>engine (running bio-diesel), that you pick a model that has a propane
>>conversion kit available. As I've posted before, I converted my 10kw Y2K
>>special and use it as a range extender for the S10 EV. Since my genny has
>>a big 20hp engine, I use two 20lb BBQ bottles Teed together. I'm assuming
>>you use propane in your RV, so you probably already have BBQ tanks that
>>you swap or have filled. You could also use the genny for RV backup
>>power. No toxic stinking gasoline (which gets stale) or stinking exhaust,
>>blah, blah, blah... Anyway, I bought a kit for my Honda engine at:
>>http://www.uscarb.com/
>>
>>After writing the above, I read your follow-up post below. I would argue
>>with your comment that LP isn't much cleaner than gasoline. I don't have
>>the numbers handy, but having put an exhaust analyzer on my genny before
>>and after conversion, the emissions were lower by something like a factor
>>of four. I hated to be around the exhaust when it was powered by
>>gasoline, but now with propane, I don't mind it. Now the noise is another
>>story! Also, my FrankenLesters (transformer) and Soneils/Zivan (switcher)
>>run fine on the genny.
>>Hope this helps,
>>BB
>
>
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--<DB wrote>--
Do you think we could run each other soonnnnnn HEADS UP? Dennis
Berube meet you half way by the end of the year!!!
--<snip>--
hmmmmm......., quick Expedia check.......that would make it ~50 mile radius
from Sacramento for both of you....AND it's *only* a couple of hours up the
road from Bakersfied, Dennis (and another lonnngggg weekend for PlasmaBoy
Racing :-)
Maybe ACP could drive up their T-Zero (and still have plenty of juice left
over BEFORE the race), and IF (yeah, I know I'm really pushing it now) the
Tesla boys wanted to come out and play.............
You know the Governator just announced a major (proposed) Emmisions Reduction
bill, and if anybody's got connections at the State capital, ....maybe there's
some *sponsorship/funds* available?
OK, OK, I know this is starting to get OT.........
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There seems to be some misunderstanding about the Toyota Hybrid System
used in the Prius. No motor is in series with the ICE. That is the
Honda system used in the Civic hybrid and Insight.
In the Prius the larger motor/generator is connected to the transaxle
output to the final drive so its in series with the road. The smaller
motor is connected to the sun gear of a single planetary gear set. The
ICE is connected to the planet gear carrier. The annular gear is
connected to the final drive (and larger motor/generator.) Either
motor can act as a drive motor or generator, in fact the larger motor
acts like a generator and the smaller one as a motor to deliver the
"overdrive" function that results in very low ICE freeway rpm (this is
also why a significant hill or hitting the throttle at freeway speeds
will result in a sharp increase in ICE rpm - as the two
motor/generators switch functions.)
David Roden posted this web link:
http://www.jantzen.nl/prius/Techniek/PowerSplitDevice.htm
For further explanation I also recommend:
http://www.jantzen.nl/prius/
and then click on the "Techniek" link (the "Continuously Variable
Transmission" link is especially good.)
This web site does explain the system fairly well (as good as anything
I could find online at right now.) This site is complete enough to get
the concept down and understand why the Prius has a maximum EV only
speed limit.
Paul G.
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Anyone used these ? What would be comparable ??
http://bzproducts.net/_wsn/page5.html
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Edward wrote:
Makes you wonder if Sony (the inventor of
LiIon batteries) and one of the best consumer product manufacturers
could not nail the manufacturing process, who else could, doesn't it?
No, there is more then one way to make a lithium battery.
http://www.valence.com/SafetyVideo.asp
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Edward Ang wrote:
> Dell confirmed that the problem is manufacturing
> contamination. Metal particles remained in the
> cell causing shorts across the separator.
> The problem is inside the cell, so, no amount of
> BMS could prevent the problem.
I wrote about this precise problem with the LiIon cylindrical cells upon
my return from the 2006 Advancements in Battery Technology & Power
Management conference in April.
It appears *inevitable* that there will be failures of this sort
regardless of the manufacturer, although the frequency/likelihood is
dramatically higher with less well-controlled manufacturing processes
such as are often associated with lower-cost Chinese production.
The safer cell chemistries may contain the damage to the single
defective cell rather than proceeding into an uncontrolled combustion of
neighbouring cells as well, but the issue seems to remain that the
cyclindrical cells are prone to this sort of internal shorting, and
there is nothing an external BMS can do about it.
Cheers,
Roger.
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