EV Digest 6527
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Voltmeter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Curtis 1231C squealing solution
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Precharge Resistor Primer
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Heatsinking a Curtis - necessary for golf cart versions?
by "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 300V EV Questions
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Heatsinking a Curtis - necessary for golf cart versions?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Need advice on Lee Hart's batt-bridge circuit
by Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) SCCA Problems with Electrics
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motor mods Peter Gabrielsson
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: How to get Solectria AC55 motor to fit transmission, is it possible?
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) DTE readout (was Electric Ford Ranger on E-bay)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: ZIF Recommendation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Processor Lockup Failsafe
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Economics of balancing amps
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Regenerative suspension, more stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Hybrid Car Crash - Tacoma WA - 3/6/07
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce wrote:
I don't understand what double-isolated wiring means.
"Double insulation" is the safety agency approval's name for systems
that have two independent insulating systems to prevent a shock hazard.
Normal wiring is single insulated; there is just one layer of insulation
between you and the conductor. It is only allowed for low voltages
(under 30 volts), where it is impossible for people to touch it (inside
electrical boxes or conduit), or where lobbyists have paid good money to
get it grandfathered in (we've always used single-insulated "zip" cords
for lamps, and we ain't a gonna change!).
A double-insulated wire has *two* layers of insulation, made of
different materials, each of which is adequate all by itself to insulate
the voltage in question. This is what you see for all house wiring
(romex), and on all newer appliances invented after the antique rules
for lamps etc. got grandfathered in (computers, etc).
As applied to a device (meter, electric drill, etc.) double-insulated
means there are at least two independent layers of insulation, each able
to withstand the full voltage, between all live parts and the operator.
With regard to a dashboard-mounted voltmeter: Double insulated means the
wires running to it have two layers of insulation (for example, the wire
itself, and an insulating sleeve over the wires). The meter itself
probably has a plastic or glass case; that counts as one layer of
insulation (if it got broken or removed, you could touch the wires
inside). So, you'd mount it behind a clear glass or plastic panel (the
second layer of insulation).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ian Page-Echols wrote:
From all I've read, it doesn't sound like something that I would really
care about. How is this dealt with differently on the Zillas or other
controllers so that they apparently don't have this same type of problem?
They use stronger, faster gate drive logic that can turn the MOSFETs
on/off quicker. So, they can produce a shorter on-time pulse, and get
down to a 1% (or less) duty cycle.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There would be 144 watts for an instant. As the caps charge, the
voltage difference (and current) both drop off, as does the power
dissipated.
In Lee's example (144V, 144Ohms, 7040uF), the energy (not power) stored
by charging would be 73J. Power (Watts) is Energy (Joules) per second.
In the two-second example, the _average_ power of those two seconds
would be about 36W.
A 50W resistor could easily handle the power spike, and can be had for
under $10.
Bruce wrote:
How do you calculate the power handling rating of the precharge resistor?
>From Lee's example (1 Amp, 144 Volts), would the resistor then need to be
rated for 144 watts? But its only being used for a short time.
Bruce
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hmm ... and what would be the value of that resisitor?
Lee Hart wrote:
It's not at all critical. Curtis recommends 250 to 750 ohms, depending on
the controller. The switch that you have in series with it (to turn on the
precharge) sets the minimum resistance; if it is rated for (say) 1 amp, and
your pack is 144v, then the resistor can be as small as R = 144v/1amp = 144
ohms.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the Curtis heat sink issue...
I'm pretty sure when our 275A 36V Curtis originally lived in a golf cart
it didn't have a heat sink.
So - is it advisable (or are there any advantages) to adding a sink in
its ForkenSwift/Joe Sixpack Metro application?
I suppose it may be run more often at its upper limit in the Geo than it
was in the Club Car. However, the range of the car will be short -
maybe 15-20 km, so it won't be run for long periods.
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Peter
Not a lot of time this morning but I wanted to get
with you real quick.
In wanting to get back to you on the spring issue I
went to your blog and had a peek.
I noticed you painted the inside of your housing and
possibly the back side of the pole shoes.
Sorry to be a bummer here but it's important to keep
those areas clean and bare metal. You want a direct
metal to metal contact there (betwen the shoe and the
housing) as it's part of the magnetics of the motor.
Just another example of where I can help save you guys
effort, if I'm informed, LMAO.
As to the spring tension (not something I actually
think about being I just do it.)(I also try to look at
where they are set (before I remove them) There are 4
and 5 turn GE springs. Usually it's about a 1/2 turn
so maybe you can take me a pic with the springs in
both locations so I can have a look. Just a little
different doing stuff via internet and hands on.
It does appear they are in the correct possition from
the ring pic you posted but a pic of them un-latched
and just set onto the spring arm will help me help you
there.
Like I said I saw the painted housing inside and
wanted to say ooops!
Sorry I'm such a downer 8^P
Got to run I'll have a deeper look at your blog
tonight.
Cya
Jim usted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ralph,
I should have been more specific about what was correct about putting
breakers together in series. In order for this to work properly the
breakers would need a tie bar on the handles so they trip together. Most
often this is not needed because instead of using separate breakers a 2 Pole
or 3 Pole breaker is used and in that case the handles are already tied
together. So to answer your question, yes there is a slight delay in the
break but only long enough until the one breaker trips out the other. If
the breaker handles are not set to trip together than the setup will not
work and it is likely one of the breakers would be damaged. A common
configuration for Siemens using their ED line is at the attached Link Page 4
of the document or page 3 of the PDF.
http://www.sea.siemens.com/circuit/product/CircuitBreakers/Submittal%20Sheet
s%20ED%20Frame.pdf
Hope this clears everything up.
-Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 300V EV Questions
I'm curious how this works. If two breakers are in series, even though they
are setup to "trip together", one of them will start opening before the
other,
and it will see the full pack voltage.
Does the actual "break" not occur until both breakers are opening?
What happens to the first breaker between the time it starts to open and the
time the second breaker starts to open? Or is this time so short that it
doesn't matter?
Ralph
Rick Todd writes:
>
> As an electric panel manufacturer I concur with James. I can provide
wiring
> diagrams from Siemens for doing such an action. Good call James.
> -Rick Todd
>
>
> Peterson Electric Panel Mfg. Co.
> Department of Engineering
> 5550 McDermott Dr.
> Berkeley, IL 60163
> Phone (708) 449-2270
> Fax (708) 449-2269
> Website www.petersonpanel.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of James Massey
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 3:59 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: 300V EV Questions
>
> At 08:27 PM 7/03/07 -0600, Fred wrote:
> >why are u putting the circuit breakers in series for ? it will not chNGE
> >THEIR VOLTAGE RATING AS THEY ARE NOT A LOAD . AND BEING IN SERIEA THEIR
> >CURRENT RATING WILL NOT CHANGE EITHER .
>
> Um Fred, if you are going to SHOUT at least know what you are talking
about.
>
> A breaker can break and clear the arc of a maximum load at a certain
> voltage. Above that voltage it cannot guarantee to clear the arc. So the
> 160V rated breaker can clear a fault on 160V. Put two contacts in series
> and when opened together it will clear a fault if the system voltage is
> 160V x 2 = 320V. Put three contacts in series and the system can be as
high
> as 480 volts.
>
> The current will still be whatever the current is. If it is 400A rated, it
> doesn't care if the system voltage is 2 volts or maximum rating, it will
> trip on the amp/curve it is designed for.
>
> Putting them in parallel *is* a bad idea, as they probably won't reliably
> current share between the sections, so for example a 3-pole 150A breaker
> cannot be considered as a 1-pole 450A breaker, since you can't count on
the
> contacts sharing the load - if one pole sees 150A it will trip, even if
the
> others are only carrying 50A each.
>
> Clear?
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
I understand your feeling after relying on your breaker to save your motor,
but the specs are very clear that the EV200 was more than sufficient to be
applied in your car, unless you raced it and went over the current spec or
your pre-charge was defective. It looks like the voltage was certainly more
than adequate and current wise its continuous rating of 500A and one-time
interrupt capability of 2000A 320V does also look good to me.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev200.pdf
I don’t know if it was new or used and/or abused before - that may have
affected its safety.
Many EVs on the road today with much higher pack voltage than yours rely on
the EV200 to break pack current if something goes wrong. Certainly any good
tool can be abused to fail when needed, not sure if that was the case in
your frightening experience. Do you know the history of the EV200 you had
failing?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 7:48 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
After welding an ev-200 in a 2700 pound car @ 144vdc I won't use one again.
However I might mix one with an Albright. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kilovac EV-200 as safety disconnect?
> >Cor wrote:
> > I read somewhere that the reason for good specs in small package
> > of the Czonka is the use of a specific gas inside the enclosure.
>
> From: David Brandt
> >Yes, they use hydrogen.
>
> If memory serves, I think it was sulfur hexafluoride. Anyone have it
written down anywhere?
> --
> Lee Hart
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It all depends on your current draw. I had a controller similar to yours on
the first go around with my motorcycle. With a single fixed gear ratio, I
found that I needed a heatsink to avoid the controller from going into
thermal cutback on hills.
damon
From: "Darin - at - metrompg.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Heatsinking a Curtis - necessary for golf cart versions?
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:37:07 -0500
On the Curtis heat sink issue...
I'm pretty sure when our 275A 36V Curtis originally lived in a golf cart it
didn't have a heat sink.
So - is it advisable (or are there any advantages) to adding a sink in its
ForkenSwift/Joe Sixpack Metro application?
I suppose it may be run more often at its upper limit in the Geo than it
was in the Club Car. However, the range of the car will be short - maybe
15-20 km, so it won't be run for long periods.
Darin
_________________________________________________________________
Win a Zunemake MSN® your homepage for your chance to win!
http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cor,
I noticed that Lee recommended the bigger caps, but when I tried a 1uF,
it worked pretty well anyway. The lights still come on faintly when I'm
driving (Curtis 1221C controller), but it is so little that I can only
really see it if it is completely dark out. Success!
Thanks for the help!
Nick
Cor van de Water wrote:
Hi Nick,
I re-checked my calculations and I made a mistake in multiply iso divide by
the 0.1V that I tried to achieve.
Lee's recommendation of 10 to 100uF would be better to kill everything of 1
kHz and higher frequency, but it appears that the noise you are combatting
is much higher in frequency, a DC/DC can easily run at 100 kHz.
Anyway, if you want to be on the safe side you may try increasing value to
at least 10 uF which should hardly make a difference in size or price and
keep the red LEDs probably from glowing.
For the calculation I used the equation for charge:
It = VC (current x time = voltage x capacitance)
I = 10 mA (approx)
t = 1 ms (actually shorter, but to make sure everything near 1kHz and above
is killed)
V = 0.1V (my assumption, it must be much smaller than the LED voltage)
so, C = 0.01A x 0.001s x 1/0.1V = 0.0001F = 100uF
(I forgot to divide by voltage, used multiply instead)
Now 100uF is a safe value, probably 10uF is sufficient (will cut off at 3
kHz)
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 2:03 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Need advice on Lee Hart's batt-bridge circuit
Hi all,
I tried Cor's recommendation of a small electrolytic capacitor (1 uF) across
the red LEDs and it brought them down to a barely perceptible glow. I
haven't wired it into the circuit permanently yet (waiting for the rain to
stop outside!), but I think that has done the trick. I checked everything
Lee mentioned, but I guess I just have a noisy DC-DC converter. It is a
Lambda module that I mounted on a home-made circuit board - I don't remember
adding any input capacitors to it, I guess I should have.
Thanks,
Nick
Lee Hart wrote:
Nick wrote:
I just constructed the circuit shown in the email below...
When I fired it up, all three lights come on... if I disconnected my
DC-DC converter, the two red lights would turn off...
I also discovered that when I drive it (without the DC-DC) both red
lights would come on faintly whenever I accelerated (even slightly).
Any recommendations, anyone?
Pack+______________
|
>
red > R1
LED >
___|/|___|
| |\| _|_
Center___| _\_/_ green
tap | | LED
|___|\|___|
|/| |
red >
LED > R2
>
Pack-______________|
There are several things to check.
First, are you tapping your pack to power something? If one part of
the pack has a load that the other part doesn't, it creates and
imbalance which lights the red LEDs.
For example, if you tap the pack at 24v to power the E-meter: The
E-meter has a 1000uF capacitor across its input; that holds the 24v
tap's voltage more stable than the rest of the pack; current spikes
from the DC/DC or controller will shift it less than the part of the
pack without that 1000uF capacitive load, which lights the red
"unbalanced"
LEDs.
Second, exactly where did you connect the batt-bridge circuit? If the
+ or - ends aren't connected directly at the battery terminals, then
voltage drops in the wiring, fuses, shunt, connectors, etc. will shift
the voltage as a function of load current.
For example, if the + wire to the batt-bridge connects at the + input
to the DC/DC converter, then the current spikes drawn by the DC/DC
cause voltage drops in all the wiring between pack + and this point.
Third, the resistors you used for R1 and R2 might be too low a
resistance, making the batt-bridge too sensitive. Try increasing their
value.
Fourth, you might have an unusually noisy DC/DC or controller that
doesn't have filter capacitors on their inputs. You can make the
batt-bridge less sensitive to AC noise by adding a small electrolytic
capacitor across each red LED (10-100 uf is good).
Finally, you may in fact have a weak battery in the pack with
excessive internal resistance. If none of the above helps, look for this!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3/8/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Peter
Not a lot of time this morning but I wanted to get
with you real quick.
In wanting to get back to you on the spring issue I
went to your blog and had a peek.
I noticed you painted the inside of your housing and
possibly the back side of the pole shoes.
Ah, well that's easy to fix while I still have it appart. Thanks for
the heads up.
Sorry to be a bummer here but it's important to keep
those areas clean and bare metal. You want a direct
metal to metal contact there (betwen the shoe and the
housing) as it's part of the magnetics of the motor.
Just another example of where I can help save you guys
effort, if I'm informed, LMAO.
As to the spring tension (not something I actually
think about being I just do it.)(I also try to look at
where they are set (before I remove them) There are 4
and 5 turn GE springs. Usually it's about a 1/2 turn
so maybe you can take me a pic with the springs in
both locations so I can have a look. Just a little
different doing stuff via internet and hands on.
Yeah, noting it down when taking it appart would have been the smart
thing to do, remember when I told you I'm another caveman with a
hammer :)
On closer inspection I probably had them at 3/4 of a turn, i.e. if
just put in with no twist the spring would have pointed out, away
from the center of the motor.
It does appear they are in the correct possition from
the ring pic you posted but a pic of them un-latched
and just set onto the spring arm will help me help you
there.
Like I said I saw the painted housing inside and
wanted to say ooops!
Sorry I'm such a downer 8^P
Got to run I'll have a deeper look at your blog
tonight.
Cya
Jim usted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/222005/221933/ShowThread.aspx#221933>
Quoted from http://www.sccaforums.com:
Two years ago at the SCCA convention someone brought up the idea in
the main Town Hall meeting about electric race cars. He basically
sort of accused the SCCA of not bothering to care about electric race
cars in general and said we needed to be exploring it. Then
someone from Arizona (IIRC) said their region had several folks who had
tried electric race cars but that they had several have battery
meltdowns on track and they were banned from at least one track because
of the damage and cleanup problems from this kind of failure. I
can only imagine that even if you got the necessary monitoring down to
prevent this that you'd still have to worry about the problems caused
by wrecks.
Anyway, the "meltdown" problem is one that should
definitely be carefully considered for autocross use since it's pretty
easy to lose sites these days and very hard to get new ones. All
that said, the idea of building an electric autocross car is fairly
intriguing. Think about the ramifications of being able to dial
your power delivery up and down based on how many runs you plan to take
and how long the course is. The tire cost debate would go out the
window compared to the battery cost debate, though! I used to
race electric RC off road buggies and believe me, you haven't seen
anything like the battery wars we could see in autocross with a popular
electric class!
The whole thread:
<http://sccaforums.com/forums/1/222005/ShowThread.aspx>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After giving it some more thought, I could swear there was a thick
sheet of nomex paper behind the pole shoes when I took it apart. Since
you've presumable taken more of these apart than I have, tell me if
I'm just hallucinating.
-Peter
On 3/8/07, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 3/8/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Peter
>
> Not a lot of time this morning but I wanted to get
> with you real quick.
>
> In wanting to get back to you on the spring issue I
> went to your blog and had a peek.
>
> I noticed you painted the inside of your housing and
> possibly the back side of the pole shoes.
Ah, well that's easy to fix while I still have it appart. Thanks for
the heads up.
>
> Sorry to be a bummer here but it's important to keep
> those areas clean and bare metal. You want a direct
> metal to metal contact there (betwen the shoe and the
> housing) as it's part of the magnetics of the motor.
>
> Just another example of where I can help save you guys
> effort, if I'm informed, LMAO.
>
> As to the spring tension (not something I actually
> think about being I just do it.)(I also try to look at
> where they are set (before I remove them) There are 4
> and 5 turn GE springs. Usually it's about a 1/2 turn
> so maybe you can take me a pic with the springs in
> both locations so I can have a look. Just a little
> different doing stuff via internet and hands on.
Yeah, noting it down when taking it appart would have been the smart
thing to do, remember when I told you I'm another caveman with a
hammer :)
On closer inspection I probably had them at 3/4 of a turn, i.e. if
just put in with no twist the spring would have pointed out, away
from the center of the motor.
>
> It does appear they are in the correct possition from
> the ring pic you posted but a pic of them un-latched
> and just set onto the spring arm will help me help you
> there.
>
> Like I said I saw the painted housing inside and
> wanted to say ooops!
>
> Sorry I'm such a downer 8^P
>
> Got to run I'll have a deeper look at your blog
> tonight.
>
> Cya
> Jim usted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The center of my transmission to the right wheel drive axle (the
transmission is to the left of the engine) measures about 5.5 inches. So, it
would appear this motor would be too big, but I was wondering if one trimmed
some of the heatsink fins near the drive shaft, plus maybe a little bit into
the casing, if this would provide enough clearance? I think I would need to
trim off enough to gain 1.35" of clearance, I'm estimating.
Make sure that the driveshafts have enough clearance to move - you don't
want
them hitting the motor when you take a bump. Maybe there's enough clearance
that way, but I dunno. The smaller (but more expensive and less powerful)
AC24 motor would certainly be an easier fit. I would not have a problem with
shaving a heatsink fin off, but when you get into machining parts of the
case,
you might get into trouble, depending on how the laminations are pressed
into
the case. You might get a cracked case by going any deeper than just shaving
a heatsink fin off. Are you sure your transmission will handle the torque of
an AC55?
The AC90's look like some serious driveshaft-twisting torque is available...
:-)
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm finishing software for such a gadget, it will be released for
field testing this summer.
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Death to All Spammers wrote:
I've seen these before but I just noticed for the first time some of the
interesting instrumentation they have. Did anyone else notice the
"distance
to empty" gauge on it? That's really cool. Is there anything like it
available that I could put in my truck? If not, does anyone have
any good
ideas on how to make one?
The DTE gauge may take up as much space as the speedometer, but I go
by the "fuel tank" type meter for the true capacity level. That
"Distance to Empty" will vary based on previous trip range and current
driving conditions, so it is more like an analog equivalent to the
EV1's digital range reading - there's nothing on the market like it
for a generic EV installation. A Link-10/e-meter is as close as
converters get.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both terminals of TS-LP90 have nickel nuts but for positive one
this nut screws over copper stud. File it, you will see copper.
The negative terminal stud seems to be nickel.
Now, the quality of this copper...
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Don't use aluminum for a connector... Copper isn't much better...
From: Bill Dennis
Aren't the + and - terminals of ThunderSky cells aluminum and copper?
I have some Thunderski LP90 cells, and they have nickel plated hardware. I
would strongly doubt they would use aluminum or copper on other models.
--
Lee Hart
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--- Begin Message ---
> > >Cor wrote:
> > > I read somewhere that the reason for good specs in small package
> > > of the Czonka is the use of a specific gas inside the enclosure.
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After welding an ev-200 in a 2700 pound car @ 144vdc I won't use
> one again. However I might mix one with an Albright.
I've had two Czonka's fail open (solenoid OK, but no workie).
After the 2nd one, I replaced the pair with EV200's. Got about
3 years on them now, so far so good, but no opportunities to test
for high current break. Beginning to wonder if the best solution
isn't the monster fuseholder, Anderson connector or knife switch
solutions being discussed.
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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--- Begin Message ---
A watchdog is simplest solution but not entirely foolproof.
There are many CPU supervisor chips meant to do just that.
Since they are separate ICs they are unaffected by any troubles
with CPU.
Real reliable intelligent often have 2 (or more) CPUs cross checking
on each other. With cost of a CPU approaching cost of normal logic
chip it is trivial solution, just SMOP.
Victor
Bill Dennis wrote:
If you're using a microprocessor to control charging, what's a good way
to have the system fail to a safe state, should the processor freeze
up--for example, turn off the charger. One possibility that came to
mind was some type of circuit or chip that expects its input to be
flip-flopped every few seconds, and if it isn't, opens a relay. Is
there a simple circuit or chip that already does this? Or is there a
better way?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
I wanted to add little correction here:
Lee Hart wrote:
Now suppose you have a balancer that can move 5 amps for 1 hour. At the
start of your drive, it can be pulling 5 amps from the best battery and
using it to charge the worst one. At the end of your 1-hour commute,
both batteries are at the same depth of discharge, so you aren't
hammering the weak link to an early demise. Your range has been extended
10% because you are no longer limited by the weakest link.
Yes, Basically you make such system to fix your deficient battery.
It sure works but the purpose of BMS is not to fix battery which is
bad. By "bad" i mean too different from others. 10% is acceptable
by manufacturer's specs since they don't care - they don't intend
batteries to be so well matched to be used in series.
This doesn't mean they have to be accepted by *you*.
Obtaining matching set may be practical [one time] hassle, but
this doesn't change the fact above - if you put effort to get
well matched pack you may not need $1000 balancer either.
'Course, few bother.
That's good! The tradeoff is economic. You have to look at what the
balancing system costs, and how much it adds to your range and life. I
can't say how it will work out for everyone, but in my own case, I
figure my balancer cost $1000, but doubled the life of a $1500 pack; so
I'm money ahead.
No, it didn't double life of the pack - the rest of the pack
without weakest battery would still get double life if
you only replace this *one* $50 battery. But you are
*replacing* it with $1000 "fix" system.
Sure, advantage is you don't need to worry what batteries
you're buying are 1% matched, 5% or 10% - they will all work
because of aggressiveness of the balancer.
Thing is, 1% matched batteries would cost you the same
each (+ some effort selecting them) as only 10% matched.
But you can save your $1000 by making that effort.
I'm not debating if it worth it - for some might, for
others - doesn't.
We're not discussing used/known mismatched/different type/age
batteries you attempt to fix by substituting their capabilities
with balancers. We're talking about normal case - people buy
one set of batteries from one source (preferably one batch)
at one time. *Then* aggressive balancer never has chance to
exercise its full power and paying for it would likely be a waste.
As always, there are exceptions to this (as well as bunch of
opposite opinions). Ultimately "right" solution depends on
the wallet of the individual and how much he values his time,
so there is really no "right" or "wrong" approach.
Victor
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Both of these products, OxGard and Kopr-Shield sound like good conductive
grease. I understand that they would have to be used sparingly in order to
avoid unwanted short circuits.
Is there any reason that you wouldn't want to use OxGard or Kopr-Shield on
all of your terminals and connections rather than Vasoline or Noalox?
Bruce
John Wrote:
Here is a product that I have used in the past as a "super" conductor on
wire splices.
Made by Thomas & Betts
"Kopr-ShieldT Compound-The copper colloidal surface treatment that protects,
lubricates and enhances conductivity between all electrical connections."
You need to be very careful with it as it tracks very easily and the
multimeter leads can be on either side of the the "glob" and still read a
low resistance.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
> OxGard is a conductive grease that has metalic particles integrated into
it.
> It is conductive and works as a corrosion inhibitor, but most importantly
> makes better contact between dissimilar metals such as copper and
aluminum.
> I am using it on my main bus system recently installed on my EV as well as
> in my house 300amp electric panel.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:16 PM
> Subject: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
>
>
> > But wouldn't it be better if the grease were truly "conductive"? I
> > envisioned something like mercury mixed in with the grease, but less
> > toxic.
> >
> > Is there any grease that you can put a glob of on the bench, stick the
> > multimeter leads into (close together but not touching) and get a
reading
> > of
> > less than infinity Ohms?
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:06 AM
> > Subject: Re: Safety Disconnect
> >
> >
> >> Bruce wrote:
> >> > Where might one find "conductive grease"?
> >>
> >> The grease isn't conductive. It's just supposed to keep water, dirt,
and
> >> corrosion out of the connection. Most of the additives and claims are
> >> marketing BS.
> >> --
> >> Ring the bells that still can ring
> >> Forget the perfect offering
> >> There is a crack in everything
> >> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> >> --
> >> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Regenerative suspension
> Well the Chevy Nova was a joke in Spanish-speaking countries, since "no
> va" would be "doesn't go".
> If I remember my Spanish, an implied subject is normal, so this is even
> a complete sentence- "(it) doesn't go (run/move)".
>
> Danny
>
> Michael wrote:
>
> >>I had a friend who saw I think a Honda hybrid car prototype being called
> >>"Impact".
> >>She said she joked to the guy doing the demo about that name and he said
> >>other people had said the same thing, but he didn't understand the
> >>problem. It was meant to make an impact on the market or something.
> >>
> >>Danny
> >> GEES! I HOPE Honda didn't " Borrow" Impact from GM , which,
thankfully, was dropped for EV-1. THAT was to mean= More to follow?
EV-2-3-4? But like the Pennsy GG-1 E Locomotive, there were no GG-2's 3's,
on and on.Unlike EV-1 the GG's ran a 50 year long life span, and would still
be running if anybody wanted them, and had 11000 volts 25 hz to play them
with.
> >>
> >
> >Hmm... sort of like a Korean car named KIA? Not a great name for those
old
> >timers who associate Korea with a war.
> > Yeah!.... Killed In Action, as I remember?
> >Of course I had a similar reaction to an electric named BugE (buggy). <g>
> > And the Brits, with Humber " Super Snipe" cars BEFORE E bay brought new
meaning to that term.
> >
Seeya
Bob
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.7/713 - Release Date: 3/7/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As always ....The " PRESS" will fly in a helicopter, a crew, cameras,
etc. to cover a shooting, a robbery, a Car Accident..
any thing negative... But try and get them to cover an Electric Car
that CAN, a young person triumphing over some adversity, doing some
civic GOOD, building an EV, and the guy will tell ya..
"Good News Doesn't sell News Papers"
Well, this CRASH is not good news either.
KING TV NEWS:
http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_030607WABhybridcaraccidentJM.2646476e.html
And all this just on the heels of Sherry Boschert's visit to Seattle,
( My EAA counterpart from San Francisco) and her Book Tour for her new
book:
"Plug-In Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America"
She did pull off a wonderful 1 hour interview on the local PBS station
( KUOW) You can go to their audio archives for 3/6/07...
the Weekday Show, and listen to it...
(short cut) http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=12364
But the Media being what the Media IS... Sherry only got to mention the
Seattle EV Association once, and on their web site where they list
Additional WEB information on the Subject of the interview..
no mention of SEVA or any of the PHEV, and EV work we have done
over the last 26 years...
That hurt a little...
But I know any of us involved in Self Promotion of EV's and PHEV's or
Alt Fuel in general have run into this...
So the Good Fight Goes ON.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have had Kopr-Shield actually track out of a taped splice to ground when
it was on too heavy on the splice fitting and got onto the tape while the
splice was being insulated. It is or at least was quite conductive as the
cans that I have are several years old and the formulation may have been
changed by now. On the outside of the connection there would be no reason
to want the super conducting property of it. All you are looking for there
is the barrier from the atmosphere and the vaseline or grease is much less
expensive and not a risk as a current path.
My experience with No-Alox has only been with aluminum wire connections and
one time I followed another company that had tried it on some mogul lamps
thinking it would be a "grease" to allow the lamps to be replaced easier the
next time around. Wrong! the heat from the lamps turned it into a glue and
several of the lampholders had to be replaced because the shell tore rather
than release the lamp base. It is definitely an insulator and designed to
be squeezed out from between the conductors when the connection is torqued.
On the outside of the splice it does its job as an anti-oxident by keeping
the atmosphere away from the aluminum and the insulating factor is not a
problem.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
Both of these products, OxGard and Kopr-Shield sound like good conductive
grease. I understand that they would have to be used sparingly in order
to
avoid unwanted short circuits.
Is there any reason that you wouldn't want to use OxGard or Kopr-Shield on
all of your terminals and connections rather than Vasoline or Noalox?
Bruce
John Wrote:
Here is a product that I have used in the past as a "super" conductor on
wire splices.
Made by Thomas & Betts
"Kopr-ShieldT Compound-The copper colloidal surface treatment that
protects,
lubricates and enhances conductivity between all electrical connections."
You need to be very careful with it as it tracks very easily and the
multimeter leads can be on either side of the the "glob" and still read a
low resistance.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
OxGard is a conductive grease that has metalic particles integrated into
it.
It is conductive and works as a corrosion inhibitor, but most importantly
makes better contact between dissimilar metals such as copper and
aluminum.
I am using it on my main bus system recently installed on my EV as well
as
in my house 300amp electric panel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 11:16 PM
Subject: Conductive Grease, Was: Safety Disconnect
> But wouldn't it be better if the grease were truly "conductive"? I
> envisioned something like mercury mixed in with the grease, but less
> toxic.
>
> Is there any grease that you can put a glob of on the bench, stick the
> multimeter leads into (close together but not touching) and get a
reading
> of
> less than infinity Ohms?
>
> Bruce
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Safety Disconnect
>
>
>> Bruce wrote:
>> > Where might one find "conductive grease"?
>>
>> The grease isn't conductive. It's just supposed to keep water, dirt,
and
>> corrosion out of the connection. Most of the additives and claims are
>> marketing BS.
>> --
>> Ring the bells that still can ring
>> Forget the perfect offering
>> There is a crack in everything
>> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
