EV Digest 7007
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Tesla motors ABC news report
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: limiting wire
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Jay Leno reviews the Tesla Roadster
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: conversion question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Electric Bike
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Electric Bike
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by "Shaun Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla
Roadster Battery Pack)
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by "Shaun Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Zivan ICS 200 Avcon charging problem
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla Roadster
Battery Pack)
by Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Bike
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric Bike
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Catch phrase for the EVDL
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s (was Re: Tesla
Roadster Battery Pack)
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Dead Batteries
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Converted super cars
by Matthew Drobnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Delivery status notification (failure)
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Delivery status notification FIXED!!
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Building LiFePO4 packs from many, many 18650s
by Matthew Drobnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Delivery status notification FIXED!!
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: conversion question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Electric Bike
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Catch phrase for the EVDL
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Delivery status notification (failure)
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Delivery status notification (failure)
by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
35) Re: Ideal EV configuration for my situation?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
sorry if this has been on here before
nothing major but might contain a few new bits of info
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRd7ER7u-KU
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
also, what do you do when you forget to put the heat shrink
on a few of the cables?
do you split the 2/0 heat shrink, and then put overtop of it
the size heat shrink that will slide over the clamp?
This happened to me when I was connecting some small wires.
Unfortunately cutting a heatshrink in two, and then putting the two
heatshrink pieces in such a way that together they wrap around the
wire doesn't work. When you heat it, the heatshrink shrink, but not
around the wire.The two pieces split and just squish up into a little
piece of plastic. That's what happened small scale at least.
On 7/9/07, keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just made up some cables and painted them with tool
dip as an insulator...don't know if it will take heat
or not but terminals shouldn't get hot if well
made/connected
just an idea i'll see how it holds up
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > The question is, If I have one or two 1/0 cables
> or one lug end
> > connector., does that make the whole loop as if it
> were 1/0
> > or the I^2/R equation means I only loose a little
> of voltage
> > whereas with all 1/0 cabling I loose ALOT of
> VOLTAGE?
>
> Exactly; the shorter the total length of 1/0 in the
> loop, the lower the
> total voltage drop will be. Ideally you want all
> cables to be 2/0, but
> every 1/0 cable you replace will decrease the
> voltage drop.
>
> > also, what do you do when you forget to put the
> heat shrink
> > on a few of the cables?
> > do you split the 2/0 heat shrink, and then put
> overtop of it
> > the size heat shrink that will slide over the
> clamp?
>
> Just get heatshrink large enough to go slide on over
> the clamp
> (heatshrink typically has about a 3:1 shrink ratio,
> and 2/0 cable is
> about 5/8" diameter, so you could use heatshrink up
> to about 2" (but use
> the smallest that will slide over the clamp with the
> pinch bolt
> removed).
>
> Use adhesive-lined heatshrink if at all possible; it
> is more expensive
> but worth it. You might want to take a battery
> clamp with you to an
> electronic supply place and try various sizes of
> heatshrink until you
> find the one that will just fit over it. I suspect
> this may be about
> 1.5".
>
> Alternatively, head for Home Depot (or similar) and
> get some electrical
> tape of the sort that forms a waterproof barrier
> when wrapped over
> itself and simply tape the connections.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also thought the article was pretty positive on the whole. I
find Leno's skepticism understandable and healthy compared to the
knee-jerk criticisms I have heard from others.
However, I suspect a Zombie ride wouldn't make much difference
to his outlook. I think he'd probably claim that WZ doensn't operate
in the "real world" but at the drag strip- ignoring the fact that WZ
is driven to and from the strip. Or if he didn't ignore it he might
point out that it can only be driven to a track that's less than 40
miles away on flat ground. Not strictly accurate, but I'm guessing
that would be his reaction.
Of course, after actually *talking to John Wayland* for awhile,
his attitude might change markedly.
On 7/9/07, lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I thought the article was very positive about electric
cars because he cited that the Tesla as having both
power and performance.
--- Claudio Natoli wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> don't think this has been posted before, and his
> articles do tend to generate interesting follow up
> discussion.
>
>
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/new_car_reviews/article2036260.ece
> http://tinyurl.com/yq8udc
>
> "in the real world most of the fun is between 40mph
> and 80mph, where you put your foot on it."
>
> Someone get that man a short ride in a certain white
> Datsun. :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In general you want 1/3 of your rig to be batteries.
My Civic was about 2220 before conversion, and is 3200
now.
Hope that helps,
--- "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a question, what is best ratio of a
> conversion car without batteries, to batteries, all
> other things being equal? For instance, 2000lbs of
> car without batteries, to 1000lbs of batteries,
> would be a 2/1 ratio.
>
> Tom Sines
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am in the midst of putting my electric scooter parts onto my bicycle.
It's okay to have electrical conducting parts (nails,metal stuff ect.)
RIGHT next to the motor, right?
I don't know what kind of motor I have. All I know is that it's a 500
watt from Currie Tech.
Also, about the connection from the motor shaft to bicycle wheel.
There is a thin gap (1/2 inch?) between the bicycle chain and bicycle
wheel. I was thinking I can attach some sort of toothed belt or
something from the motor shaft to the gap between the bicycle chain
and wheel. Would a belt that is that thin have the strength to carry
sll of that power?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Post master said my post didn't work. I'm posting it again.
I am in the midst of putting my electric scooter parts onto my bicycle.
It's okay to have electrical conducting parts (nails,metal stuff ect.)
RIGHT next to the motor, right?
I don't know what kind of motor I have. All I know is that it's a 500
watt from Currie Tech.
Also, about the connection from the motor shaft to bicycle wheel.
There is a thin gap (1/2 inch?) between the bicycle chain and bicycle
wheel. I was thinking I can attach some sort of toothed belt or
something from the motor shaft to the gap between the bicycle chain
and wheel. Would a belt that is that thin have the strength to carry
sll of that power?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm not sure I follow that reasoning but please tell me the price
Dan,
A123 asked me not to. However, having just bought 2 DeWalt 36V volt
packs (with 10 cells in each pack) for USD $116ea. I would be slightly
better off doing it this way i.e buying another 148 DeWalt packs to
make up my full traction pack of 1500 cells, so you get the idea.
Shaun
www.electric-echo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hehe ok. that's terrible. curious human stupidity A123 exhibits (that's
probably gonna come back to haunt me that I told the truth)
btw if the price from A123 is indeed that terrible, you might be able to
make a good deal with some of the ebay sellers of dewalt. seems to me
that some of them let them go for around 90$ new in auctions so if you
order 150...
worth a shot although a terrible waste but what can we do. it might wake
A123 up a bit though if you cancel your order for 1500cells in favor of
buying dewalt packs
Dan
Shaun Williams wrote:
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm not sure I follow that reasoning but please tell me the price
Dan,
A123 asked me not to. However, having just bought 2 DeWalt 36V volt
packs (with 10 cells in each pack) for USD $116ea. I would be slightly
better off doing it this way i.e buying another 148 DeWalt packs to
make up my full traction pack of 1500 cells, so you get the idea.
Shaun
www.electric-echo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone read what I am saying?
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hehe ok. that's terrible. curious human stupidity A123 exhibits (that's
probably gonna come back to haunt me that I told the truth)
btw if the price from A123 is indeed that terrible, you might be able to
make a good deal with some of the ebay sellers of dewalt. seems to me
that some of them let them go for around 90$ new in auctions so if you
order 150...
worth a shot although a terrible waste but what can we do. it might wake
A123 up a bit though if you cancel your order for 1500cells in favor of
buying dewalt packs
Dan
Shaun Williams wrote:
> On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm not sure I follow that reasoning but please tell me the price
>>
>
> Dan,
>
> A123 asked me not to. However, having just bought 2 DeWalt 36V volt
> packs (with 10 cells in each pack) for USD $116ea. I would be slightly
> better off doing it this way i.e buying another 148 DeWalt packs to
> make up my full traction pack of 1500 cells, so you get the idea.
>
> Shaun
>
>
> www.electric-echo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/9/07, Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was able to get far better contact with people from PHET and their cells are
at the same level of quality (which was confirmed by HydroQuebec - owner of
LiFePO4 patent) as A123.
That's a big call, hard core data would be required to convince me.
Shaun
www.electric-echo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The NG3 only draws current from the line when the instantaneous line voltage
exceeds the filter capacitor voltage (plus rectifier drop). Therefore it
draws current in short pulses, the peak of which is too high for some
breakers and the ICS. An inductor 'resists' a change of current and fitting
one in line with the charger input will 'spread' the current peaks. Now you
have a 'lagging' inductive load presented to the line and you need to fit a
capacitor accross the line to present a 'leading' load and compensate.
Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 6:25 PM
Subject: Zivan ICS 200 Avcon charging problem
My problem:
I have a Zivan NG3 switching charger in my EV. It has a power factor of
0.68. It has an internal fuse of 20 Amps.
I have an AVCON adapter box.
I can charge on some public chargers, but some of the ICS-200 units shut
down after 1 minute.
I am planing a simple low-pass L filter to see if this eliminates the
problem.
I have two 0.005 Henry inductors, 22.5 Ampere rated, and 0.03 Ohm.
I have a large number of 10 and 50 microFarad capacitors, oil filled,
rated at 600 Volts.
With the two inductors (in series) placed in series with 300 microFarads
I calculate a resonate frequency of 91 Hz.
I calculated the inductive reactance at 60 Hz at 3.77 Ohms, and the
capacitive reactance as 4.4 Ohms.
1. Can I connect the series combination across my 240 Volt 60Hz lines
(without the Zivan) for a test?
2. What will the current be through the Capacitor?
3. Is it okay to connect the Zivan (across the capacitor).
4. Would additional capacitance to lower the resonant frequency help?
5. Would placing additional capacitance at the junction of the two
inductors have any advantage?
6. This experiment would cost me nothing, but does it make any sense?
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
269.10.2/891 - Release Date: 08/07/2007 18:32
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
it's not my business to make publicity for PHET or any other company that
cooperates with me. At the time I'll be 100% sure I can provide reliable
product based on one or other solution it will be introduced to global
market.
So far I did few prototypes for big companies, they gave me positive opinion
on the work, I also made some proof of concept based on some cutting edge
tech discussed here.
Anyway, if you want to use my help, experience or knowledge I'll be happy to
help but if some information is classified you have to take my word for it.
As for PHET I've seen a lot and have very strong confidence for them.
Marcin
> That's a big call, hard core data would be required to convince me.
>
> Shaun
>
> www.electric-echo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Joseph,
I received both post. The only problem with mounting the motor on the
gearing side, is that when the motor is on, your peddles will be turning
tool. Normally a bike chain sprocket of about 1 inch in diameter is place
on the motor shaft with a bike chain going to about a 3 inch diameter
sprocket on the axle.
Some Currie bike motors also have a gear reduction of about 3 to 1, which
makes it a overall ratio of 9 to 1.
At full rpm, the bike would go about 15 mph, making the bike peddles turn
very fast.
Currie makes a special bike axle, where the a 3 to 4 inch bike chain
sprocket is on the shaft on the other side. A Currie mounting plate with
slots and adjustment for the motor to set on is either welded or bolted to
the bike frame.
You could test the motor out my installing it on the multi bike chain
sprocket and connect the motor to the existing largest sprocket that is all
ready there.
With you feet on the peddles while the motor is going, it will give you a
good leg exercise workout if the peddles rotated too.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 2:48 PM
Subject: Electric Bike
> Post master said my post didn't work. I'm posting it again.
>
> I am in the midst of putting my electric scooter parts onto my bicycle.
>
> It's okay to have electrical conducting parts (nails,metal stuff ect.)
> RIGHT next to the motor, right?
>
> I don't know what kind of motor I have. All I know is that it's a 500
> watt from Currie Tech.
>
> Also, about the connection from the motor shaft to bicycle wheel.
> There is a thin gap (1/2 inch?) between the bicycle chain and bicycle
> wheel. I was thinking I can attach some sort of toothed belt or
> something from the motor shaft to the gap between the bicycle chain
> and wheel. Would a belt that is that thin have the strength to carry
> sll of that power?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They sell industrial toothed belts that are very strong such as the Gates
Poly chain belt that drives the earlier solectria cars.They are real helpful
and good prices I thought at www.mibelting.com
mike young-solectria cars
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Electric Bike
Post master said my post didn't work. I'm posting it again.
I am in the midst of putting my electric scooter parts onto my bicycle.
It's okay to have electrical conducting parts (nails,metal stuff ect.)
RIGHT next to the motor, right?
I don't know what kind of motor I have. All I know is that it's a 500
watt from Currie Tech.
Also, about the connection from the motor shaft to bicycle wheel.
There is a thin gap (1/2 inch?) between the bicycle chain and bicycle
wheel. I was thinking I can attach some sort of toothed belt or
something from the motor shaft to the gap between the bicycle chain
and wheel. Would a belt that is that thin have the strength to carry
sll of that power?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you think?
Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you have 4 posts in the last few hours
Dan
Joseph T. wrote:
Can anyone read what I am saying?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about
"Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you think?
> Lawrence Rhodes...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"If they won't build them, then we will."
At 05:03 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
How about
"Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you think?
> Lawrence Rhodes...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you think?
Lawrence Rhodes...
"Mistakes made, Lessons learned"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
how about: we make catch phrases rather than actually doing something :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Richard,
The lights are all operating as should. It just worries me that I am not
using hardly any water. It is kind of like what my dad used to say about
ICE cars. If it does not use a little oil then that is the time to worry.
I feel that I am not getting a good equalization.
When the new battery charger comes I will find out
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Dead Batteries
Tom,
Do you observe the charger near the end of the cycle? The red light should
eventually blink every 10 seconds or so, then it'll shift to yellow for
the "constant amperage/pulsing voltage" phase (I think I got that right, I
don't have my manual in front of me)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I met Paul and saw his setup...Nice guy. Very enthusiastic about Luxury
EVs. :-) I took a ride in the 911/959ish car..it was blue..and had a
slipping clutch. First DC EV ride..(Short stint in a Solectria Force I
think it was when I was younger...)
Anyway...Small place, yes, scam, didn't look that way to me.
-Matt
Jerry Wagner wrote:
Dean, you are correct. I got a ride in one of Paul's conversions at Steve's
Ft. Pierce EV rally this spring. He ran in fifth gear and it was quite
impressive. Very nice car. I believe the selling price is around $60,000
however.
Steve is alive and well and is swamped with conversion work. I just talked to
him last week. He said he has not had time to read the discussion list at all.
Jerry Wagner
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jul 8, 2007 9:52 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Converted super cars
On 8/7/07, Joseph wrote:
It's in Palm Beach. I live nearby; I've thought about visiting there
before but honestly I kind of think it's just a scam.
Isn't that Steve Clunn's friend (http://www.grassrootsev.com/index.htm)?
Paul I think it is, he does kit-car EV conversions. I don't think it is a
scam as such. Anyone know what Steve is up to these days? I used to enjoy
reading his posts about is lawn mower antics and backyard conversions.
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Breathing is over-rated"
-Brought to you by your nighborhood Big Oil
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
---- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"If they won't build them, then we will."
At 05:03 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
>How about
>
>"Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
>
>
>--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you think?
> > Lawrence Rhodes...
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
do you guys also constantly get an email about delivery failure to a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
what's up with that
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dan- I got an I phone and ATT messed up my old blackberry account- I
just had them delete it so it it happens again in the next day please
let me know- I was not aware of this till today.
Sorry
Mark
electricyaris.com
On Jul 9, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
do you guys also constantly get an email about delivery failure to
a [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
what's up with that
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ian,
If I may ask - why are you looking into raw cells? The 12V 50 Ah battery
they have seems to be pretty good to me...but I'm not sure which cell
that is...I'm looking at being able to do 16C as my max, which is
800A...800 A * 300 V = 240 kW, which is ~320 HP, and who knows how much
torque out of a Zilla 2k LOL.
If I push it to 20C... 1000A * 300 V = 300 kW = 400 HP :-D
Zilla 2k + PHET + Warp 11 = FUN. :-)
-Matt
Ian Hooper wrote:
You can buy DeWalt 9360 packs for about US$100, and they have 10x M1
cells in them, so it would seem US$10/cell is about the going rate.
Or US$1.43/Wh, which is pretty expensive even for LiFePO4s. But then
with 70C on tap it's only 2 cents per watt of power, which is rather
good - i.e it might be the cell to go for if you are drag racing. But
I was hoping decent range by using a ~15kWh pack, which makes them
just a little out of my price range!
I'm currently leaning towards the PHET PE1150s (their high-power 18650
cell). Not quite as high power as A123s, but still very good (20C+ no
worries) and around half the price per watt hour.
And rather impressive cycle life. They sent me a datasheet for the
PE1150 which included lab results from cycle tests. 2C charging and
*10C* discharging, and the cells lose 20% capacity in ~800 cycles.
That's cycling at 10C discharge!! So, if I absolutely thrash heck out
of the car for about 5 years, I'd STILL have 80% pack capacity left ;)
(FYI at 2C charge and 4C discharge the cells hit 80% after 1750
cycles. Which is still way above average EV charge/discharge rates,
and represents maybe 10 years of use.)
They're looking good.
-Ian
On 09/07/2007, at 7:16 PM, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
I'm not sure I follow that reasoning but please tell me the price
Shaun Williams wrote:
A was kindly given a quote by the A123 Systems folk a couple of months
ago for 1500 cells but in the spirit of a good conspiracy theory, on
which some appear to thrive, I can't possibly tell you their price...
:-)
However, a quick search for "DeWalt 36V" prices at eBay will give you
the correct answer (with the bonus of a 10 "module" battery balancer
thrown in!).
Shaun
www.electric-echo.com
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do we have any prices on bulk A123 cells?
has anyone ever been able to buy some?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
no problem. you're the yaris guy, good work :)
I'm looking forward to your controller part. should it be a zilla then
you shouldn't in any way feel obligated to send me a picture of its
insides to make up for the huge burden it was to receive a few email
notifications : )
Dan
Mark Dutko wrote:
Dan- I got an I phone and ATT messed up my old blackberry account- I
just had them delete it so it it happens again in the next day please
let me know- I was not aware of this till today.
Sorry
Mark
electricyaris.com
On Jul 9, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
do you guys also constantly get an email about delivery failure to a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
what's up with that
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is no "Best" ratio. It depends on your goals. Most folks just load
up as many batteries as will fit without going over the GVWR. Then again,
a lot of folks just ignore the GVWR and just put as much on as will fit.
If you want to be scientific about it, establish goals (range, speed,
performance, etc.) and then figure out how many batteries you need to meet
your goals, then see if the vehicle can handle that amount of weight.
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a question, what is best ratio of a conversion car without
> batteries, to batteries, all other things being equal? For instance,
> 2000lbs of car without batteries, to 1000lbs of batteries, would be a
> 2/1 ratio.
>
> Tom Sines
>
> ________________________________________
> PeoplePC Online
> A better way to Internet
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about "either they're really bad engineers or we're really good -
100mpg now."
On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 4:12 pm, Mike Chancey wrote:
"If they won't build them, then we will."
At 05:03 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
How about
"Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you
think?
Lawrence Rhodes...
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or
"Charged and ready - no further research needed".
On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 4:12 pm, Mike Chancey wrote:
"If they won't build them, then we will."
At 05:03 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
How about
"Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you
think?
Lawrence Rhodes...
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"The only problem with mounting the motor on the
gearing side, is that when the motor is on, your peddles will be turning
too"
I don't mind. I'd rather have something simple first. I'll elaborate later.
"Currie makes a special bike axle"
Does anyone know of this part number or how I can identify this certain part?
On 7/9/07, mike young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
They sell industrial toothed belts that are very strong such as the Gates
Poly chain belt that drives the earlier solectria cars.They are real helpful
and good prices I thought at www.mibelting.com
mike young-solectria cars
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: Electric Bike
> Post master said my post didn't work. I'm posting it again.
>
> I am in the midst of putting my electric scooter parts onto my bicycle.
>
> It's okay to have electrical conducting parts (nails,metal stuff ect.)
> RIGHT next to the motor, right?
>
> I don't know what kind of motor I have. All I know is that it's a 500
> watt from Currie Tech.
>
> Also, about the connection from the motor shaft to bicycle wheel.
> There is a thin gap (1/2 inch?) between the bicycle chain and bicycle
> wheel. I was thinking I can attach some sort of toothed belt or
> something from the motor shaft to the gap between the bicycle chain
> and wheel. Would a belt that is that thin have the strength to carry
> sll of that power?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about these:
"Electric cars - The future being created in your back yard"
or...
"Mistakes are expensive, but EVDL is free"
or.........
"Give your farewells to gasoline at EVDL.org"
On 7/9/07, GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Or
"Charged and ready - no further research needed".
On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 4:12 pm, Mike Chancey wrote:
> "If they won't build them, then we will."
>
> At 05:03 PM 7/9/2007, you wrote:
>> How about
>>
>> "Saving the planet one car at a time, because someone has to do it."
>>
>>
>> --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> We have already made the mistakes so you don't have to. What do you
>>> think?
>>> Lawrence Rhodes...
>>>
>>>
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, all the time.
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
do you guys also constantly get an email about delivery failure to a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
what's up with that
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But mine says [EMAIL PROTECTED] not [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 7/9/07, Joseph T. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yup, all the time.
On 7/9/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> do you guys also constantly get an email about delivery failure to a
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ?
>
> what's up with that
>
> Dan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SOme things to consider when selecting a donor:
Free donors are not free if you have to spend a fortune fixing them up.
It's usually cheaper to buy a car that's in good shape to begin with.
That being said, don't select donors that are:
1. Heavy
2. Damaged
3. Butt ugly (who wants to drive an ugly car?)
With a Mercedes you don't have to worry about #3, unless #2 applies.
However they do sound a bit heavy, especially for 20 year old cars.
You might try finding a used EV, this is usually the cheapest way to get
the parts.
On your budget, you can't afford AC, not even Victor's. Your budget might
buy Victors motor/controller, but then you'd have nothing left for
batteries, adapter plate, cabling, battery racks, etc.
DC is going to be tough on your budget, but doable. Especially if you can
get some good deals on used/surplus parts.
As for sensor readings, I wouldn't worry about feedback from the controller.
They make some nice battery management/monitoring systems now, they should
cover just about everything you need to monitor.
Depenging on what you want the car pc to do, you might look into the
surplus Nextar MN2607 GPS units.
Linux based computer with 20 gig HD, 7" touchscreen, USB host ports,
MultiMedia capability, GPS (obviously).
I paid $250 for one on Woot recently.
I gather the GPS part isn't that great (SiRF II), but I think it's a good
price for a linux carputer with a 7" touch screen
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Please let me thank you guys in advance for any replies.
>
> Firstly, I should mention my background. I'm a 2nd year student at
> Carleton University in Ottawa studying chemistry and computer science.
> I'm turning 19 soon and pretty much have no experience with cars,
> electricity, or motors. I understand the concepts, but have no
> hands-on experience. However, I learn quick and am definitely willing
> to spend a large chunk of my free time doing this conversion. Most of
> you probably think I'm crazy by now for even considering this, but I
> wouldn't be attempting this conversion if I didn't have the help of my
> dad. He's currently the tech department head at a high school in
> Toronto and has access to all the classrooms and shops. We have access
> to ProENG and 4 axis CNC milling machines and lathes. He holds a
> B.Eng in mechanical and has the great advantage of access to free
> (student) labor. He's also had considerable experience working in the
> industry and can refer to his friend, the electrical engineer, for
> help with electrical issues. Our agreement is that I do the research,
> he advises on technical issues, and the students do the labor (I'll
> help when I'm in town).
>
> I'll describe my situation:
>
> I'm going to come into possession of 2 Mercedes cars, hopefully, in
> the near future. They are the 1987 260e and 300e models.
>
> The 260e was purchased by my grandfather 2nd hand in 1988 and has a
> near pristine body. There's only a bit of rust on the rear left door.
> The engine was also brought to the dealership every year for tuneups,
> but it's starting to show signs of wear now after 20 years. It has an
> automatic transmission, unfortunately, and I think will become
> available as a donor within 3 or 4 years. I'm quite sure it's been
> driven less than 150 000km (!).
>
> The 300e is my uncle's temporary vehicle and the engine is in very
> poor condition, although the body is in fair condition. It spends more
> time in the shop than out of it, and I think I can obtain it within
> the year. It has a standard transmission, but it is also in very poor
> condition. I can hear it constantly when sitting in it, and there is a
> persistent smell of burnt plastic/oil. I think it may be necessary to
> replace it, so that should be added into the cost (more on that
> later).
>
> I'm planning to convert the 300e, and then move onto the 260e when the
> 300e finally kicks the bucket. They both use identical chassis, so I'm
> hoping it won't be too hard to switch over.
>
> A few quick stats about both the cars:
> curbside weight: 3100lbs
> carrying capacity: unknown
> Co-efficient of friction: ~0.22
> Lots of trunk space, lots of engine space.
>
> And my intended usage will be:
> - daily commute, 40 km round trip mostly flat ground. Should allow
> for up to 80km or 100km though, for those proverbial rainy days.
> - 100-120km/h maximum velocity. Definitely does not need to be a
> speed demon. Reliability and range are much more important to me.
> - Highway use maximum 3 or 4 times a week, mostly local roads or
> traffic jams, 60km/h.
> - Canadian climate. -30C winters, 30C summers.
> - Future expandability to use with fuel cell?
>
> Budget: $10 000CDN = ~ 9500USD
>
> So based on the information and criteria given, which set up should I
> choose?
>
> - Battery:
> I've been dreaming about the A123 batteries, but realistically, I can
> only afford Lead Acid. I'm not sure whether I should choose AGM/Gel,
> or regular flooded. What would be the normal cost for these batteries
> for an application of my size? I know those cars are quite heavy. The
> usual cars I see converted are almost 1000lbs lighter than the 260e.
> the T105s look nice, but I have little experience in this area. I'm
> not even sure if the 260e can support the weight of the batteries, (I
> estimated 1000lbs) since I can't find any information on the carrying
> capacity of the chassis.
>
> - Motor/Controller:
> I can't decide on DC or AC. I know that this usually ignites a
> firestorm of email when this issue is raised, but I'm truly clueless,
> so please help me out.
> Please don't hesitate to comment if my reasoning seems flawed at any
> point.
>
> I would ideally like to go with AC, because efficiency seems to be
> higher with regenerative braking and the solutions seems to be more
> professionally designed and reliable in the long run? However, the
> BRUSA motor/controller looks like it costs 3 times my budget! Is it
> possible to run an AC set up with my budget? Victor seemed to be able
> to put together the Siemens set within my budget, but I'm not sure if
> those prices are still available, and within Canada.
>
> However, although DC seems to be a less "professionally designed"
> solution, it also does not look bad. It may be the only thing within
> my budget. The problem is that I'd prefer a programmable motor
> controller, since I'm going to be fully integrating this car into a
> car PC running Linux. Most of the DC motor controllers make me nervous
> though, partly based on the size, and partly based on the overall look
> of the motor controller and lack of data logging features. There seems
> to be an overall lack of engineering data available for the DC motor
> segment, so that also adds to my worries. I'd prefer to have as many
> sensor readings as possible coming from the car, just to make sure
> everything is running within normal ranges. I'm not sure if there's
> any DC motor controller out there within my budget that meets those
> needs. Are my worries unwarranted?
>
> Also, what range of power would I be looking for? I suspect that I
> would need a 70+ kw nominal motor since the car is so heavy, but
> that's really just a rough estimate based on a ratio of the CRX ICE
> and victor's EV horsepowers and the 260e's ICE horsepower.
>
> So basically those are the 2 biggest questions regarding my set up.
> I'm not afraid of any mind boggling reading either, so if you guys
> have good resources for a relative "newbie" to the field, pile it on.
> I've been to most of the EV sites readily available through Google,
> and probably all of the major motor manufacturer sites and wiki pages,
> but I feel that I should be reading much more about it.
>
> Oh also, included in this budget needs to be a car PC. No worries, it
> shouldn't cost more than $500. I'm going to "start" this baby up with
> a USB key =D.
>
> Thanks for all your help guys.
>
> Matt
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
