let's see what public material we can dig out. this is one part of research
which has been poorly examined. most important is to understand the
electrolytes and material particle mechanics. with electrolyte selection
you may make cells tha work great in cold but breaks down in cool summer
day. or have a cell which works fine in sauna but drops dead if you take it
to a swim with you in the hole on the ice. it's hard to have them all so
our chinese friends mix the electrolyte for +20-25C ambient. more i learn
more i know i know nothing. pretty interesting field of tech which keeps
one learning for decades!  :) -jukka
6.1.2014 23.40 kirjoitti "Michael Ross" <michael.e.r...@gmail.com>:

> Jukka,
>
> I am trying to find out about the various chemistries in this regard, do
> you have some reference material you can share about this or is your
> comment meant to be anecdotal?
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Jukka Järvinen <akkuju...@akkujukka.fi
> >wrote:
>
> > It depends on your chemistry. What anode and what mix of electrolyte.You
> > may see on the voltage behaviour on charging if your anode has
> difficulties
> > in absorbing the ions (jittering). You can charge in very cold too but
> this
> > is not universal rule. You really need to know which type of millions of
> > variarions of lion cells you have. If you figure out the growing internal
> > resistance according the temperature while  discharging you can estimate
> > the point where your cell becomes just ballast. Stay away from the
> falling
> > cliff. I would advice to get some insulation and heating for the cells.
> > Easiest that way.-jukka
> > 6.1.2014 23.18 kirjoitti "Michael Ross" <michael.e.r...@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I think it means you need to charge them in a warm place and/or back
> off
> > on
> > > the charge rate.
> > >
> > > Right now all I am hearing is that there is a spec on some cells.  I am
> > not
> > > clear on the why and wherefores of it all.  I prefer not to fully
> accept
> > > manufacturer specs (particularly from China regarding Li batteries,
> > because
> > > the testing specs are mostly unknown).  They could be offering a CYA
> > spec,
> > > or they could just be wrong.
> > >
> > > I have been trying to find out if purveyors of batteries even know what
> > > testing is done and the quality of it.  Nada.  Interesting
> conversations
> > > though.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Mark Hanson <marke.han...@hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Message: 13
> > > > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 11:13:52 -0800
> > > > From: David Murphy <dfm...@gmail.com>
> > > > So does that mean you can't use Lithium below 0C / 32F ?  That
> doesn't
> > > > make any sense for those who live in the northern latitudes & Canada.
> >  I
> > > > charge about .1C anyway (13 amps on CALB 130ah batts).  I've charged
> at
> > 20F
> > > > but tonight it'll be 0F in VA.  What about folks in Minnisota like
> Lee?
> >  I
> > > > guess they use battery heaters but I thought most chemistries you
> could
> > > > charge cold just take a bit longer due to higher internal
> > resistance.Best
> > > > Regards,Mark
> > > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Charging Lithium below freezing,    should I
> drive
> > my
> > > > gas car?
> > > > Message-ID:
> > > > <cahtzjazxhv3i2+ugau3ms_tyrnddvywyf2-dwjkt846nd7c...@mail.gmail.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >
> > > > So the cells I am talking about are referred to as Lithium Ion
> Polymer,
> > not
> > > > sure if that is the same chemistry...
> > > > The specs for these type of cells define three temperature ranges for
> > > > charging. (cell temp, of course, not ambient)
> > > > from 0C to 10C
> > > > 0.1C max Constant Current (CC) to 4.2V, 4.2C Constant Voltage (CV) to
> > > > 0.05Cmin cut-off
> > > > 10C to 23C
> > > > 0.5 max CC to 4.0V, 0.2C CC to 4.2V, 4.2V CV to 0.05C
> > > > 23C to 45C
> > > > 0.5C CC to 4.2V, 4.2V CV to 0.05C
> > > >
> > > > for discharge, the oeprating temp is -20C to 60C
> > > >
> > > > Hope that's helpful...
> > > >
> > > > david
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
> > > happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
> > > *Dalai Lama *
> > >
> > > Tell me what it is you plan to do
> > > With your one wild and precious life?
> > > Mary Oliver, "The summer day."
> > >
> > > To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
> > > Thomas A. Edison<
> > http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html>
> > >
> > > A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
> > > *Warren Buffet*
> > >
> > > Michael E. Ross
> > > (919) 550-2430 Land
> > > (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google
> > Phone
> > > (919) 631-1451 Cell
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> > > michael.e.r...@gmail.com
> > > <michael.e.r...@gmail.com>
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>
>
> --
> Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain
> happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
> *Dalai Lama *
>
> Tell me what it is you plan to do
> With your one wild and precious life?
> Mary Oliver, "The summer day."
>
> To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
> Thomas A. Edison<
> http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html>
>
> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought.
> *Warren Buffet*
>
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 550-2430 Land
> (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google
> Phone
> (919) 631-1451 Cell
> (919) 513-0418 Desk
>
> michael.e.r...@gmail.com
> <michael.e.r...@gmail.com>
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>
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