"Oh boy, is this great!"
[ref http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-files-patent-to-juggle-Sequential-Superchargers-tp4668077.html EVLN: Tesla files patent to juggle Sequential-Superchargers ] After reading the above newswire and seeing the low-resolution image, I felt it just did not give enough information to leave me satisfied knowing what is the difference is between Tesla's charging (levels 3,2&1) and the others (CHAdeMO, ccs combo, Mennekes, +). [I ask those that are knowledgeable on these points weigh in here, as some of my statements are going to be based from what I have drawn from the Internet, so some corrections are likely needed.] I think it is pretty clear that level 2&1 are fairly straight forward between the different types of EVs. Same as with other plugins, level-2&1 comes into a Tesla EV (via a Tesla EVSE, or from a j1772/outlet source via an adapter) as AC (2 or 1 pole/phase). Tesla's standard 10kW on-board charger must be able to limit its AC current draw to match the power source. But what is so different about Tesla's level-3 charging that warrants their own patent to balance/handle the power between charging EVs? At first I thought, well Musk is no slouch, so the team he assembled is not going to be either. There has to be some wise/clever designing going on. If you look at one of the many Tesla Superstations that now connect across the U.S. (and soon across Europe, and possibly Asia at a later date) there are several charging bays. Using the info I have gleaned from the sources below, I read where so called 100kW SuperStation charging bays, actually only put out 90kW. I can understand that with that much power and several EVs that there would be a need some power management (i.e.: one EV is close to finishing its charge and has tapered its current demand, while another was just connected and is demanding full charging power, etc.). One of the pages below mentions that if two EVs plug into the same bay (two connectors per EVSE) both demanding full power, the EVSE splits the power between them, so neither EV gets full power (the work around being, that you plug your EV into a bay where you won't be sharing the power). I thought of looking at the differences of the level-3 types. Since Nissan has basically fronted the costs of a large portion of a CHAdeMO installation infrastructure, while GM (and the other companies GM bullied into buying into combo) have not reciprocated/helped with the costs of installing a combo infrastructure (leaving it up to others to pay those bills), leave me to conclude GM does not show much of an EV commitment, like they are waiting for the other shoe to drop: another administration will stop all this 'EV nonsense' like in the 1990s/2000s). Tesla dropped Million$ to install a contiguous SuperStation route across the U.S. (they threw the money they earned from selling carbon credits toward doing level-3 charging right). ::cool:: But with no compatibility between each level-3 type, it seems like such a waste of time, energy, resources & money. I suppose the method to their madness is that GM does not want to pay for CHAdeMO, and Tesla knows they can do it better than any of them. So how is Tesla's level-3 better? Besides being ~twice the power output (matching Tesla's larger pack capacities), it does not use a huge and heavy horse's-leg cable&connector like CHAdeMO (though a new model connector-handle is in the works - see below). But why is Tesla's (and Mennekes') cable & connector so slim while CHAdeMO's (and combo's) is so Military/Industrial designed to be heavy? Both Tesla and CHAdeMO pump high powered DC, yet Tesla's connector is so slim and elegant ... Hmm? At twice the power, doesn't Tesla's cable and connector heat up? What I am reading is CHAdeMO's 50kW EVSE (what is publicly installed) is huge and expensive. In one of the pieces below it is stated that Tesla's level-3 EVSE is ~half the cost of a 50kW CHAdeMO. So a 90kW SuperStation costs less than a 50kW CHAdeMO? Mennekes has the potential of using 3 phase AC (see the Tesla forum discussion on a proposed re-use of the Tesla connector using a 3-phase power transfer). From what I can summarize, the DC EVSE types, do all the heavy-lifting off-board without requiring the EV have the high-powered electronics to handle the conversion of the grid's AC to the pack's DC. Whereas, the AC EVSE types require the EV have the power electronics on-board the EV to convert the grid's AC into DC to recharge the pack. One of the links below, mentioned that Tesla's level-3, is several 10kW chargers with their outputs in parallel. I am quite familiar with that idea, as I had 6 chargers on-board my S-10 Blazer EV. So, Tesla's L3 EVSE is ganging the same 10k chargers they have in their EVs? That is pretty smart. I can see where large quantities of 10kW chargers being produced would drop the costs down, thus making the Tesla L3 EVSE less expensive. And Tesla's sharp design team has already written the management software to control them. This is starting to sound like, all of Tesla's ideas are winners, and they are the ones to hitch your wagon to (use Tesla's charging technology on all EVs). In a perfect EV production world, once a better technology is recognized, it should be adopted as a standard by all the other EV makers. Some, might say, well that is a nice dream, but it isn't going to happen. ::Sigh:: Yea, I would have agree. {brucedp.150m.com} ... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083929/ Fast Times at Ridgemont High ... [video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmlnltVzksg Oh boy is this great! northstarnational· Jun 10, 2011 ] [Links I have found: ] http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1209_tesla_supercharger_an_in_depth_look/ ... Supercharger will add about 150 to 160 miles to Model S' range. At full rip, it'll dispense energy at a nominal rate of 90 kW (but it's capable of charging up to 400 volts at 250 amps, or 100 kW) -- that's a 300 mph rate -- or 4.7 times quicker than the already very aggressive Tesla home charging solution when coupled to the optional Twin Charger on-board unit (240 volts at 80 amps) ... http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079545_teslas-supercharger-network-how-it-works-in-the-real-world ... Superchargers are cheap(er) Because Tesla’s Supercharger design stacks 12 of the 10-kilowatt chargers found inside the 2012 Model S together to provide 120 kilowatts of peak charging power, the superchargers are cheaper to build than the Chademo charging stations used to rapid-charge cars like the 2012 Nissan Leaf and 2012 Mitsubishi i. In fact, according to Tesla’s chief technology officer J.B. Straubel, the cost of building a single supercharger is about half the cost of a single Chademo charging station. Not only that, but they’re easier and quicker to fix, since the charging modules are a standard Tesla part. Charge as much as you need, not to full Like any battery pack, the rate at which charge is accepted depends on how full the battery pack is. As a battery pack’s charge increases, its rate of charge drops, meaning it takes longer to charge from 80 percent full to fully charged than it does from 40 to 80 percent. Because the 2012 Model S Signature Series has such a large battery pack, Berman found it more advantageous to only partially charge at each supercharger, waiting until the car had enough charge to reach the next supercharger rather than fully recharging at each stop ... http://insideevs.com/deatils-on-teslas-first-35000-mobile-supercharging-station/ ... Tesla has patented some sort of “new” type of Supercharger that splits power among the various Model S EVs that are plugged in. Those patents are years old and Tesla’s Supercharger have always been power splitters. Here’s a basic rundown of how a typical Tesla Supercharger operates: Each Supercharger cabinet supports two plugs, but can only deliver ~120 kW total. If two Model S EVs are plugged into shared cabinets, then the loads get split (the power splits are complicated stuff, so we won’t go into detail on how it all works out). At a Supercharger, plugs are listed 1A / 2A / 3A / 4A / 1B / 2B / 3B / 4B and so on. 1A shares a cabinet and power with 1B. 2A shares with 2B and so on. If you want/need access to the full 120 kW of power, try not to park in a spot that is sharing with another plugged in Model S. If You Want to Guarantee Full Juice, You’d Want to Make Sure That a Model S Wasn’t Plugged Into the 182A Supercharger ... http://www.teslamotors.com/charging ... http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/highpowerwallconnector.pdf ... CIRCUIT OPTIONS CONNECTOR DETAILS Single phase, 208-250 volt AC supply, 60 hertz For cars configured with on-board Twin Chargers: 60-100 amp circuit breaker For cars configured with on-board Single Charger: 50 amp circuit breaker ... http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6440-Endorse-my-letter-to-Tesla-for-supporting-3-phase-charging-for-the-Model-S/page2?p=85264&viewfull=1#post85264 [image http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2930&d=1317750078 3-phase support discussed on the Tesla forum ] http://insideevs.com/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/ DC Quick Charging Battle Just Beginning: CHAdeMO Vs. SAE Combo Vs. Tesla Supercharger [~May 2013] ... Nissan, which is main player backing the CHAdeMO standard is saying similar things: “A CHAdeMO quick-charger delivers 50 kW of high voltage direct current (DC) via a special safety approved connector with specification that can go up to 100kW. By delivering the DC charge directly to the car’s power source, the CHAdeMO quick-charger can replenish a battery to around 80 per cent of its capacity in as little as 15-30 minutes.” If this is true, the message is that CHAdeMO can be upgraded (with backward compatibility) from 125 A to 200 A, which at 500 V is 100 kW! Thus, besides aesthetics, there is no real advantage of the other system over CHAdeMO – maybe if others eventually can increase to 150 kW or 200 kW, but not at current 100-120 kW max level ... [images http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2.png Next Generation Yazaki CHAdeMO Connector http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/12.jpg Sumitomo Electric’s SEVD-01 CHAdeMO plug http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/mennekes-chademo-combo-plugs.jpg From Left to Right: Mennekes, CHAdeMO and Combo ] http://elbil.pbworks.com/f/MENNEKES%2Band%2BEV.pdf ] MENNEKES and EVs ... (page7) Vehicle Coupler Requirements from the IEC 62196-1 Current: 16A – 32A AC Voltage: 230V single-phase 400V three-phase Communication: necessary from vehicle to charge-station Plug in cycles: 10.000 times Approvals: tested and approved regarding IEC 62196-1 - -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Fast-Times-SuperStation-High-tp4668135.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
