It's 2014 now... a magic date for NiMH large format batteries. http://www.winonarenewableenergy.com/1/post/2012/04/ev-batteries-are-being-held-hostage.html
Where are my cheap NiMH large format batteries? Any news now that the patents are expiring (expired?). Just curious. sean On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter <bruce...@operamail.com> wrote: > [In reference to > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Ford-And-Tesla-Pushing-Toyota-To-Adopt-Li-ion-tp4664317.html > EVLN: Ford And Tesla Pushing Toyota To Adopt Li-ion > ] > > I pawed through the evdl nabble archive on this and found that ... > Toyota had preferred to use NiMH for their hybrids for quite some time > ... > > http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td3085326 > Toyota will stay with NiMH for 10+ years, Chevron-out/ECD-in + > Dec 13, 2010 > > > The following newswire explains that TMC improved on the NiMH design > (along with some other money saving techniques) ... > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Building-hybrids-on-the-cheap-td4658568.html > EVLN: Building hybrids on the cheap > Oct 12, 2012 ... Toyota Motor Corporation, instead of switching to > Lithium-ion [Li-ion] battery packs, which are more expensive, was able > to make its current Nickel-Metal Hydride [NiMH] battery packs more > efficient. They did this by changing the shape of individual cells from > cylindrical to flat, and modified the case to improve cooling and > lifespan. Toyota also switched from 500 V to 650 V, a decision that > produced "a host of benefits," says Justin Ward, advanced power-train > program manager at the Toyota Technical Center. Toyota was able to > reduce the size of the drive motor without sacrificing performance. This > small change reduced the amount of copper needed in the motor assembly, > and therefore the cost of the component ... > > > Ford had switched to using Li-ion in their hybrids a while ago > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Ford-s-New-Hybrid-Battery-Pack-Testing-Techniques-td4660294.html > EVLN: Ford's New Hybrid Battery Pack Testing Techniques > Jan 01, 2013 ... Unlike previous-generation vehicles from Ford's lineup > that featured nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH) batteries, li-ion batteries > offer numerous benefits - including a size 25 to 30 percent smaller, and > the ability to provide about three times the amount of power per cell > than the previous state-of-the-art NiMH battery technology ... > > > With all this chatter about NiMH, it had me thinking, that maybe, just > maybe NiMH would begin to be available the public (unlike before). We > all know about the NiMH patent lockup so no one could get them: > http://www.winonarenewableenergy.com/1/post/2012/04/ev-batteries-are-being-held-hostage.html > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_automotive_NiMH_batteries > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobasys#Criticisms > > But the patent and manufacture of large format NiMH batteries has > changed hands. Yet, a search really only shows individual cells yanked > from hybrid vehicle packs for resale. > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbm=shop&q=nimh+batteries+prius > > -Where can a person buy large format NiMH cells to build a pack for > their conversion? > > > Some in the media may say it was the high energy density of Li-ion that > got us where we are today. But it is more likely that the 'availability' > of li-ion that really tells the story. So, I was wondering, what if NiMH > 'had-been available' a decade ago and the CARB mandate had as much teeth > (support) as it has today? > > > {Dream mode on: let's assume NiMH large format cells/pack were available > 10+years ago} > So, if today's production EVs were using a NiMH pack of the same Ah > density ... > > -The range would be the same, right? Or would a NiMH pack weigh more? > > -What would be the cost difference? Does the older NiMH technology cost > less to manufacture? Perhaps now that li-ion is the standard, NiMH price > will drop? > > If NiMH had not had the blockage to keep it from being available, (and > political forces had allowed CARB to do their job), we could have had > compliance EVs over ten years ago in the 2000's, right? > > > Back then automakers would have to use their (older) ice sedan platforms > for their compliance-car: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Escort_%28North_America%29#Third_generation_.281997.E2.80.932002.29 > Ford Escort > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Malibu#Fifth_generation_.281997.E2.80.932003.29 > Chevy Malibu > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic#Seventh_generation_.282000.E2.80.932005.29_-_EM2.2C_ES1.2C_EP1.2C_EP2.2C_EP3.2C_EU1.2C_EV1 > Honda Civic > > > In those days, there wasn't any L3 EVSE standard. But what if one had > been implemented? > > -What is the %SOC point one wants to stop charging NiMH at high current > levels? Is it 80% like with Li-ion? > > -Does the pack heat up more or less than li-ion and require cooling? > > > > Corrections & comments are welcome. > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and > love email again > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- Sean Korb spk...@spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org '65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382 "The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
