Peri, some of us read and comprehend your postings, I agree with you. Hydrogen has a long tail pipe with a diameter twice as large as electricity from the utility has and wastes 50% of the solar PV electric produced if it used to form hydrogen, compared to other uses for the electric power.
The REAL purpose for fuel cell development vehicles is the SEVEN TIMES the credit, for EV, toward being allowed to sell gas (ICE) cars. (So called Compliance Cars). The critical designating point is their only being leased, not sold, and only in Southern California, where there are four Hydrogen retailers, of the, only about 40, in the remainder, of the USA. (But, the manufacturers are not leasing in any other states...) *Dennis Lee Miles * *Director **E.V.T.I. Inc.* *E-Mail:* *evprofes...@evprofessor.com* <evprofes...@evprofessor.com> *Phone #* *(863) 944-9913* Dade City, Florida 33523 USA On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > This is another oblivious report on hydrogen as a fuel. I sent a comment > to the editor but could not figure out how to post a comment for the > article (logging into the forum does not allow you to post comments for an > article). > > Here's what I posted: > > In the article "Global automakers split on 'green car' strategy", By AFP > on June 19, 2014, the author has committed a terrible disservice to your > readers in his description of hydrogen as a fuel. > > He says that using hydrogen will produce nothing more harmful than water. > No mention whatsoever is made of where hydrogen comes from. It must > either come from "cracking" water, which takes a tremendous amount of > energy which, in turn, must come from somewhere. Or it comes from natural > gas or other petroleum based fuels which must be mined and refined with all > the current existing problems and harmful byproducts. > > Hydrogen as a fuel can only be a short term solution. If a large > percentage of vehicles were to use hydrogen, the environmental and monetary > costs would be visible to the public and prohibitive. > > Please be more responsible in your reporting! Thanks. > > Peri > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "brucedp5 via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Sent: 29-Jun-14 3:28:01 AM > Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: VHS vs Betamax> automakers' chose different paths > > >> >> % Tesla-S' near 300mi range is not mentioned, yet refueling time is % >> >> http://www.autotalk.com/global-automakers-split-on- >> green-car-strategy-24059/ >> Global automakers split on 'green car' strategy >> By AFP June 19, 2014 >> >> Global automakers are locked in a showdown evoking the video format wars >> of >> the 1980s, as they bet on what eco-friendly vehicles will prevail in the >> battle for dominance of the burgeoning low-emissions sector. >> >> In a contest reminiscent of the scrap for pre-eminence in the home video >> market, which pitched Betamax against VHS, huge auto firms are going all >> out >> for very different technologies. >> >> Toyota, which is ending a battery deal with US electric car leader Tesla, >> is >> concentrating on mass-producing a fuel-cell vehicle, along with smaller >> rival Honda. >> >> Nissan, by contrast, has bet the farm on all-electrics, unveiling its >> second >> model this month -- despite weak sales of its flagship Leaf -- and is >> pushing >> the technology in China, where officials are scrambling to contain an air >> pollution crisis. >> >> Japan's number-two automaker is also reportedly in talks with Germany's >> BMW >> and Tesla about standardizing re-charging systems, after the US company >> took >> the rare step of agreeing to share its patents with competitors to boost >> lacklustre electric vehicle production. >> >> "Nissan and Tesla... came out with very ambitious goals for the technology >> but >> had to backtrack, partly because demand... wasn't strong enough," said >> Stefan >> Bratzel, director of Germany's Center of Automotive Management. >> >> "Daimler, Toyota and General Motors are the most advanced in fuel cells, >> but >> the problem is the high cost of the technology and necessary >> infrastructure." >> >> Limited range, high price >> Analysts say very low or zero-emission vehicles will dominate the next >> phase >> of independent travel, with governments everywhere rolling out stricter >> emissions standards. >> >> This near-certainty is sparking massive investment, with Japan's seven >> major >> car manufacturers expected to spend a record $24 billion on green car >> research and development this year, according to the Nikkei business >> daily. >> >> Detractors says electric vehicles simply shift emissions to the >> fossil-fuel >> burning power plants that provide the energy to recharge their batteries. >> They are also hampered by a short driving range. >> >> Fuel cell cars, on the other hand, are seen as the Holy Grail of green >> cars >> as they're powered by a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, which >> produces nothing more harmful than water. >> >> Still largely experimental, fuel-cell vehicles could get a boost as >> various >> jurisdictions, including the US state of California, launch new hydrogen >> refueling stations. >> >> Toyota is eying a 500-kilometre (300-mile) range for its fuel-cell car -- >> more than twice the Leaf's current range -- and much faster re-juicing. >> >> The company, while not abandoning electric altogether, sees the fuel cell >> as >> the next logical step after its big early success with the Prius >> gas-electric hybrid, which has sold about 3.7 million units since its >> launch >> in the late 1990s. >> >> "Electric vehicles are still so limited by the cruising range," Nobuyori >> Kodaira, Toyota's executive vice president said in a recent interview. >> >> "Hydrogen can be recharged in three minutes... Quick-charging an electric >> vehicle still takes about half an hour." >> >> Different paths, same goals >> Cleaner power generation, however, may boost the appeal of electric cars, >> said Jos Dings, director of Brussels-based NGO Transport & Environment. >> >> "If... we manage to make electricity in a much cleaner way -- there is a lot >> of >> investment in renewable energy -- then it can definitely be a sustainable >> way >> forward," he said. >> >> Still, Nissan's Leaf has shifted about 120,000 units since its launch >> nearly >> four years ago, way below expectations. >> >> But its chief executive Carlos Ghosn -- a steadfast cheerleader of electric >> cars who has scoffed at rivals' ambitious plans for a commercialized >> fuel-cell vehicle -- said new re-charging stations will be crucial to >> demand. >> >> "All of it is very closely linked to the development of infrastructure, >> but >> we are seeing more and more competitors coming onto the scene which is >> always a tell-tale sign," he told AFP earlier this year. >> >> Ghosn was speaking in Bhutan, where Nissan sealed a deal to supply the >> tiny >> Himalayan kingdom's government with a fleet of its green vehicles as it >> eyes >> an all-electric transport policy. >> >> Governments throwing their weight behind strict roadside pollution >> standards >> and other environmentally-minded policies is crucial, analysts said. >> >> "I don't think GM, Ford and Chrysler look at green cars as a profit >> opportunity or big growth opportunity in which they are sensing a lot of >> consumer demand or growth -- their goal is to meet what the government >> requires from them," said US-based auto analyst Jack Nerad. >> >> Whether one technology ultimately reigns supreme, or they co-exist with a >> patchwork of refueling stations, may not matter much, added the >> environment >> group's Dings. >> >> "All car makers are now seriously investing in developing these >> technologies, seeing how customers react to them, seeing how they work on >> the road and how much they cost," he said. >> >> "They all chose different paths and that's fine, as long as the solutions >> deliver." >> [(c) autotalk.com] >> >> >> >> >> For all EVLN posts use: >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/ >> NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date >> >> http://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/27/free-solar-powered-carport/ >> Free solar carport for N. CA communities registered for PACE program >> >> http://forbesindia.com/article/work/inside-the-reva-factory/38066/0 >> Inside the Reva EV factory and views of the production line >> >> http://auto.ndtv.com/news/mahindra-will-review-tesla- >> patents-for-its-electric-vehicles-564932 >> Mahindra Will Review Tesla Patents for its Electric Vehicles >> ... >> http://www.techtree.com/content/news/6598/mahindra- >> use-teslas-patent-free-electric-car-technology.html >> ... >> http://www.cartrade.com/blog/2014/greens/mahindra-halo-an- >> electric-car-concept-from-india-698.html >> Mahindra Halo - An Electric Car Concept From India >> >> http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/21/why-tesla- >> not-fuel-cells-owns-the-automotive-futur.aspx >> Why Tesla, Not Fuel Cells, Owns the Automotive Future (subscription) >> >> http://greenpowertrain.automotive-business-review.com/news/juice-bar-ev- >> launches-new-customizable-charging-station-230614-4299610 >> Juice Bar Customizable L2&1 EVSE> branding,advertising,sponsorship,POS >> + >> EVLN: MG EV concept UK first drive review r:~71mi >> >> >> {brucedp.150m.com} >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle- >> discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-VHS-vs- >> Betamax-automakers-chose-different-paths-tp4670187.html >> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at >> Nabble.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ >> group/NEDRA) >> >> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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