I would disagree that these are real-world examples. ANyone who would purchase an EV for a daily commute that needs daily public charging either has too much time on their hands, spends hours a day at starbucks or bought the wrong car. An EV is optimum when it can meet the routine daily needs with only routine charging at home and while parked (and plugged-in) at work.
Any routine daily intended use of public charging along the way is simply gas-tank/gas-station legacy thinking that perpetuates the inconvenience of "refueling stations" and overlooks the value promise of the EV which is independence from "refueling" anywhere not at home or at work. Yes, public charging IS NEEDED for the non-routine, non-daily needs, but that is not the purpose of this site. Bob On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:55 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > [ref > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-UCDavis-EV-Explorer-shows-how-a-Plug-in-Save-You-Money-td4670803.html > EVLN: UCDavis' EV-Explorer shows how a Plug-in Save$ You Money > ] > > Summary: Again a supposed tool for the public to use that has errors at > best, and was not written by/for plugin drivers living in the real world. > > When you bring up their web site > http://gis.its.ucdavis.edu/evexplorer/ > > It first asks for a starting point (city, state or zip code), then for the > destination. It comes up with some figures based on their assumptions of > what vehicle you would want. > > But what public EVSE at what cost any where along the commute route, what > vehicle you can afford, and options to not charge at level2 but level3 > where > not considered. > > Different parts of the U.S. have different amounts, types and brands of > EVSE > (different EVSE brands with the same capabilities will cost differently, > eVgo vs Blink, etc.). > > > My first pass at using this tool was to consider a person working in > Silicon > Valley (Palo Alto, CA), and 96mi commute from the coast (lives in Aptos, > CA) > http://goo.gl/maps/2TDOq > > I chose this route not so much as typical but as one example (other > scenarios will vary everything: SF or East-bay to Silicon Valley, etc.). > > By expanding the Annual Vehicle Energy Costs box and selecting the Car > Manager button, I also changed out all the preselected vehicles to ones > that > a better paid Silicon Valley person could likely afford (what 2014 models > they might compare). I chose (in order of their purchase price): > -2014 Prius hev 50mpg > -2014 iMiev EV, selected 8hour/3kW L2 charging > -2014 Leaf EV, selected 4hour/6kW L2 charging > -2014 I3 EV (not the pih), selected 4hour/6kW L2 charging > > I purposely did not choose a Tesla because not everyone can afford one, and > even their lowest cost trim could easily do the commute without ever > needing > a charge. > > When I played around with the L2 EVSE cost$, some curious errors showed up. > > When I set the cost of the L2 charging to free (blank), the 5day/week > commute costs were: > -$1897 Prius hev > -$525 iMiev EV > -$525 Leaf EV > -$425 I3 EV > > !Hang-on! > ? How is it possible that the i3 EV costs less than the other two EVs if > the > cost of charging is free? I am not going to claim they have a built-in bias > for the i3, but something is wrong there. > > When trying to know what price/gal cost the tool uses for the gasoline the > Prius used: > 96mi-roundtrip-commute*5days*52weeks= 24960mi/year > 24960mi/55mpg= 453.82 gallons of gas > $1897/453.82gal= $4.18/gal > which is close to a Palo Alto, CA price for regular gas > > http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=11&lat=37.425849&long=-122.147584&sid=2330&ft=A > > But nearer to the driver's Aptos, CA home and on the driver's route, they > can stop off at Freedom and get it for $3.69/gal > > http://www.californiagasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=11&lat=36.940418&long=-121.769323&sid=164053&ft=A > > Using plugshare.com I found both the typical L2 cost per hour ($1, from > either eVgo/NRG's or Blink/CCG's payment plans > http://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/ > https://getsatisfaction.com/blink/topics/blink_dc_fast_charger_fees > There are other EVSe brands and cheaper plans to use, but I chose these as > an example). > > When I set the cost of L2 charging to $1/hr, the costs were: > -$1897 Prius @ $4.18/gal > -$2085 iMiev > -$1305 Leaf > -$1252 I3 > > Again the i3 EV was shown as costing less, even though the range of each is > very close (Leaf 84mi vs i3 81mi). If anything the i3 EV's commute cost > should be a hair more costly. > > UCD's calculator does not let the driver compare if they were to use L3 > EVSE. Perhaps they assume it is less likely for the driver to have the vast > amount of L3 that Silicon Valley has. But many production EV driver use L3 > on a daily basis. > > -Trying to figure L3 costs- > Commuting from Aptos (on the Pacific coast) to Palo Alto (up over the Santa > Cruz Mountains, down into the valley toward the S. SF Bay using major > highways) is enough of a chore in its self, and the driver is likely will > to > use L3 EVSE to save time. On that commute I would likely use: > http://www.plugshare.com/?location=45217 > eVgo @Whole Foods > or > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/7346 > Blink @Library > > At a $0.10 per minute L3 Quick charge plan, and taking about 15 minutes to > charge (packs were likely not totally drained/empty), that would cost about > $1.50 per L3 charge. That seems low, when other L3 cost $7 a pop. I will > use > $7. To try to use this sites' calculator, I have to translate the $7 cost > to > a 4 hour L2 cost ($7/4= ) $1.75/hr@L2. > > When I set the cost of L2 charging to $1.75/hr, the costs were: > -$1897 Prius @ $4.18/gal > -$3255 iMiev > -$1890 Leaf > -$1837 I3 > > The i3 cost still seems wrong. The last two EVs with about the same range, > and the i3 costs less to commute even when the charging is free? > > > With both CA & OR states the focus of automakers so that they can garner > credits toward selling their ice in those states, those automakers are > offering their EVs at low prices there. > > So, I decided to do another scenario of about the same commute but of a > driver living near Talent, OR who works 86 miles south in Yreaka, CA > http://goo.gl/maps/plBmy > > I also changed out the vehicles to ones that a less paid N. CA person could > likely afford . I chose (in order of their purchase price): > -2004 Prius (a cheaper used) hev 44mpg > -2014 Fiat 500e EV with 4hour/6kW L2 charging > -2014 Smart Fortwo EV with 4hour/6kW L2 charging > -2014 Chevy Spark EV with 7hour/3kW L2 charging > > There aren't any formal public j1772 EVSE in Yreaka, CA but there are three > RV park locations. One of them asks for $8 to access their 14-50 50A outlet > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/16339 > Oak Ridge > > Again, the website is not set up for the real world, and does not allow for > a one-cost per whole charge. It only allows for either cost per hour or per > kW. > > So, I do a double manual calculation to be able to use the website's tool. > For the two 4hour charging EVs ($8/4hours= ) I can enter in $2/hour. For > the > 7 hour EV ($8/7hours= ) I can enter in $1.15/hour. > > -$1891 2004 Prius (a cheaper used) hev > -$2025 2014 Fiat 500e EV with 4hour/6kW L2 charging @ $2/hr > -$2593 2014 Smart Fortwo EV with 4hour/6kW L2 charging @ $2/hr > -$1645 2014 Chevy Spark EV with 7hour/3kW L2 charging @ $1.15/hr > > There is again something wrong with the results. Why would a Spark cost > less? > > When trying to know what price/gal cost the tool uses for the gasoline the > older Prius used: > 86mi-roundtrip-commute*5days*52weeks= 22360mi/year > 22360mi/44mpg= 508.18 gallons of gas > $1891/508.18gal= $3.72/gal > > which is close to a Ashland, OR price for regular gas > > http://www.medfordgasprices.com/map_gas_prices.aspx?z=11&lat=42.185078&long=-122.667525&sid=84225&ft=A > > But at the driver's work site in Yreaka, CA it is $3.95/gal > http://www.californiagasprices.com/Yreka/index.aspx > > > Besides the errors/flaws I have pointed out above, it is also pretty clear > that costs of hev/ice maintenance, smogging, etc. were not factored in. > Also, the cost of electricity vary, so what it will cost to charge at home > does not seem to be factored in as well. > > No one seems to have a useful tool that encompasses a more fair and > balanced > comparison. > > > I ask evdl members to give it a try where they live stating what vehicles > they chose, the cost of charging, electricity at home and chemical-fuel > where they are. > > As always, comments, corrections, and views are welcome. > (fcv lobbyists/trolls/thugs need-Not respond, and please follow the evdl > charter). > > > > > For all EVLN posts use: > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-UCDavis-EV-Explorer-shows-how-a-Plug-in-Save-You-Money-tp4670803p4670817.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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