BTW, Even the Nature article is contradicting itself because if the cell is 2V then the following is wrong: "affording charging times of around one minute with a current density of ~4,000 mA g-1 (equivalent to ~3,000 W kg-1)" Because 4A per gram is only equivalent to 3kW per kg at 0.75V
Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:44 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford Ben, the electrolyte is not specified other than the phrase "intercalation of chloroaluminate anions in the graphite" Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: Ben Goren [mailto:b...@trumpetpower.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 3:40 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford If I have the back of the envelope right...if you make 100g cells, package 72 of them together for a single 144-volt super-cell, and then parallel'd sixteen of them into a battery...just the battery bits (without packaging, wiring, or the like) would weigh ~250 pounds, it'd have about 16 kWh capacity...and it could put out 6400 amps for almost a megawatt of total power. Something about that tells me it's gotta be too good to be true -- either I slipped a decimal or misinterpreted something or they're selling snake oil or _something._ But, if that's basically what this is...then I can see the NEDRA crowd being all over this. Anybody have any experience with the substances they describe? How readily available are they, how nasty are they to work with, and so on...? b& On Apr 7, 2015, at 3:29 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Actually, > the Nature article quotes 4 Amp per gram, so if a 2V cell weighs 1kg > then it could produce 4,000A or 8kW per kg > > The Capacity is quoted as 70mAh per gram, which is 140 Wh per kg (again, at > the expected 2V cell voltage). > > Note that all these numbers are the bare cell, so to compare with a > CALB 180Ah cell you'd either need to subtract the CALB's housing and > connection hardware weight, or estimate how much it would add to the Alu > battery to make a similar rugged and packaged end product. > By all accounts, it looks like very competitive to Li cells, but all > research takes many years before you can place an order for commercial > available product... > If it is really cheaper, better, safer, then we can see it break through > sooner. > Time will tell. > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info > www.proxim.com > > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this > message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized > use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is > prohibited. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis > via EV > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 2:59 PM > To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford > > Their current version of the battery has only 40 watts of electricity per > kilogram compared to lithium's 100 to 206 W/kg power density--so you'd need > more of them to get the same power. That might get better as they improve > the cells, of course. > > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via > EV > Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 2:11 PM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: [EVDL] Aluminum battery from Stanford offers safe alternative > to conventional batteries > > Does anybody know any more about this research? > > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/march/aluminum-ion-battery-033115.h > tml > > Aluminum anode; graphite cathode. Unspecified salt for the electrolyte. > > It's only about two volts. The rest of the specs are vague...nothing at all > about capacity. They claim super-fast charging times without indicating how > much energy the batteries actually take on. They claim several thousand > charge cycles. No mention of energy density per mass. The prototype is > bendable, in what looks for all the world like a mylar ziploc bag. They show > the battery being drilled into with minimal ill effect. > > I find it intriguing to consider for an electric vehicle...because a > super-fast charging time, if real, would similarly imply a super-fast > discharge rate. It gives the appearance of being technology within the reach > of an hobbyist to manufacture. Form factor is obviously quite literally > flexible. > > In other words...I can almost imagine building a battery like this, myself, > at home, to put into a car conversion. Or, if it's too heavy for vehicles, > then to stick in the closet to pair with the solar PV array. > > Any experts out there have any good water to throw over me? > > b& > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
