BTW, most likely what Nissan is stating is that the 2016 30kWh pack is likely software incompatible (different BMS) as well as not making a version that would communicate to the older Leafs (probably just a different control plug layout, just like between 2011/2012 and 2013-2015). Because Nissan *did* make a 2011/2012 compatible version of their 2015 "Lizard" pack that is used in warranty replacements, which has the old type (4-row) control plug on the 2015 harness and the BMS is programmed differently to read and report the 4 temp sensors that the 2011/2012 expect, while the 2015 normally has only 3 temp sensors.
However, for a shade tree mechanic like myself to fit a 30kWh pack into a 2011, all you need to do is to gut your 2011 pack from its modules, cut the 2015 shell open (it is glued shut) and move the modules from that shell into your old 2011 shell and adapt the 2011 BMS wiring to connect to all 96 cells of the new pack. Main issues that can be encountered are the mechanical outline of the module mounting and the harness design (wire length that requires modifying) and the risk of making errors in connecting the new pack to the old BMS, blowing it up. Careful work, triple-checking everything you do and actually measuring the voltage on the BMS connectors before plugging in can make a world of difference. I needed about 3 days to swap the Lizard cells from my pack into the 2011 shell from my neighbors to get their car going again as well as to adapt the 2015 BMS that was paired to my car and the optimized contactors and service disconnect and current sensor to fit into a used 2011 pack and put that back into my car to get mine going as well. So, 2 complete pack rebuilds. This latter included designing new mounting support, hacking off unusable supports that were in the way and filing off bits of the battery pack shell to allow bolts that were shifted in the service disconnect mounting to fit. Oh and replacing the HV connector that was damaged in shipping (or dismantling of the car) to replace it with the plug that used to go on the 2015 pack, also because the contacts for the newer plug are shorter as Nissan added a common mode choke between plug and contactors, inside the shell. It was not 3 days continuous work as I also had family business to take care of. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: paul dove [mailto:dov...@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 3:44 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises, androgynous-design and no-delays https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11/confirmed-30-kwh-nissan-leaf-bat tery-packs-incompatible-with-older-nissan-leafs/ Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Peri, > Unlikely. > While battery technology has been progressing quickly and we have seen > the Model S go through a series of incremental upgrades where the kWh > rating went up in 5 kWh steps for the same size of battery, it is > unlikely that Nisan will be able to shoe-horn more than twice the > current capacity into the same space under the vehicle and keep it > compatible. > The 2016 Leaf can be had with a 30kWh pack instead of 24 so that is a > possibility to get a new and incrementally better pack. > I suspect that Nissan will not provide the 30kWh pack with the same > connector as the 2011 Leaf has, but knowing the pin-out (it is the same > signals on different pins, we already saw this change going from the > 2011/2012 Leaf to the 2013+ where the control connector changed from > 4-row to a 6-row connector but has identical signals, so it would be > trivial to splice on a new connector and plug (send me a message if you > want to do this, I have a connector and the pack feed-through from a > 2011 that you can splice onto the 2013+ wiring to allow it to work in a > 2011 Leaf) > Only you will need to convince a Nissan Dealer to help you to pair your > new pack to your car in the Nissan service system so it generates a key > that needs to be entered on your car to accept the new pack, else you > can only drive around at 25 MPH. > There is one other option to get the 30kWh pack to work in a 2011 Leaf, > but I would have to see the internals of the new pack (number of cells > and layout) to be able to tell if it would be possible to use the old > BMS on the new pack, which would avoid contacting the Nissan service, > only the old BMS will need to learn that it has higher capacity cells to > better estimate range, even though it will work and balance like normal > on the old pack. > Learning new capacity takes more than a month of daily driving in my > experience. > > As I said, this is to get the 30kWh battery into the 2011 Leaf. I highly > doubt the 200 mile Leaf will have the same space for its battery, it is > likely that the car itself will be re-designed to create more space for > the pack so it will by definition not be compatible. > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless > > office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water > XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info > > http://www.proxim.com > > This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and > proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received > this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any > unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of > this message is prohibited. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman > via EV > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 10:38 AM > To: Ed Blackmond; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises, > androgynous-design and no-delays > > When Nissan comes out with their 200 mile battery, does anyone know if > it will be possible to upgrade a 2011 leaf with that battery? > > Peri > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Ed Blackmond via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Sent: 22-Aug-16 9:36:25 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Chevrolet Bolt EV Early Adopter promises, > androgynous-design and no-delays > >> >>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 4:19 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV >>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >>> >>> For all that, I have to admit, it has promising specs. It's just >>> that I >>> still can't get past GM's EV history. >> That worries me a bit too, but they are going to be available for >> purchase. The EV1 was not. >> >> I'm planning to replace my 2011 Leaf with a Bolt as soon as they become > >> available. If I can get 150 miles driving the way I drive, I will never > >> have to rent an ICE car again. >> >> The range of my Leaf is now down to about 55. The most I ever got was >> 81. Ever since buying the Leaf, there were things I decided not to do >> because I would have to rent a car to do them. I don't think that will >> be the case with the Bolt. >> >> Ed >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
