Hello Dave, You raise some interesting questions. Out of curiosity, I did a search on Mirai Hydrogen Tank Replacement Cost and came up with a couple of things:
1) In this link: https://insideevs.com/news/326312/2016-toyota-mirai-do-not-refuel-after-2029/ There is a picture from a 2016 article on the Mirai. In the picture is a back of the door plate that reads: Do Not Refuel After: 2029/11 The interesting thing is that it is time based and not based on the number of refuelings. I would think that bringing a tank repeatedly from around a couple of PSI to 5 tons per square inch would stress the composition and create microcracks and stresses. But who keeps track of how many times a vehicle is refueled (or recharged)? 14 years times 15K miles per year is roughly 200K miles. At a 400 mile range, that's 500 refuelings. Most of the car reviewers were finding lower ranges. If you can't refuel after 14 years of driving this car, then the tanks need to be replaced???? 2.) For replacement cost ( "Fits Mirai 2021-2021"), I found this ad at: https://parts.lagrangetoyota.com/a/Toyota__Mirai/97938565__9232000/FUEL-TANK--TUBE/28B420-7701.html#77A30 The number 1 & 2 tanks are each listed at a discounted: $9,313.87. The number 3 tank is listed at a discounted : $5.665.95 So basically, it would cost $24K at a discounted cost ($30K retail) in parts to replace those 3 hydrogen tanks. As a comparison, a Model 3's pack replacement cost is $16K just for the pack: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/38915/it-costs-nearly-16000-to-replace-a-tesla-model-3-battery-pack with the life of a pack between 300K and 500K miles. 3.) With regard to garaging, I was reading a while back that the hydrogen is so light that it would float and disperse readily generating the idea a HFCEV could be garaged. If I find the article I will post it but the comments you found in a passage about getting it out and into a well-ventilated space makes me want to find an authoritative source. It may be the difference between a slow leak and something faster. After 4 to 5 hours on the road, letting an EV recharge while we visit the restrooms and order a meal takes away from the speed of refueling a HFCEV. Peter On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 10:42 AM EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > Thanks Bill. That's the information I was looking for. > > I was curious about whether this was mentioned in the owner manuals of FCVs. > so out of curiosity I downloaded the Mirai manual from the web > > https://www.startmycar.com/toyota/mirai/info/manuals/2021 > > It's 560 pages! I thought at first that it must be multi-lingual, but nope, > that's all English text. I confess, I didn't read it all, just skimmed > interesting topics. > > First of all, I was specifically looking for information or advice about > ventilating the garage where the owner is going to park the Mirai. I didn't > find any. The only mention of "vent" in the index refers to the seat > ventilators. "Garage" is about Homelink programming. "Parking" guides us > to parking assist, parking brake, parking lights, and "parking support > brake," which is a low speed collision avoidance system. > > The manual has some information about the car's safety systems. Apparently > it has a hydrogen leakage detector that posts a warning on the info screen. > > The car has 3 bulky cylindrical H2 tanks. The vehicle schematic diagram > showing them made me think of EV conversion, when you have to figure out > where to fit in a dozen or two lead batteries, with little choice about > their shape. > > One H2 tank is in the center between the seats, where a driveshaft would be > in an FE/RD car. (I thought we were done with that waste of interior > space.) One appears to be transversely mounted under the seats, and the > third behind the rear axle (shades of the Pinto's gas tank). They're all > claimed to be physically outside the passenger cabin, so presumably they're > hung underneath. > > I don't see dimensions, but they look like they might indeed cover less > total square area than a typical EV battery. However, they may be taller > than some/most EV lithium batteries. > > There's a traction battery, too. It's smaller than a typical EVs but > appears to be mounted over the rear axle, behind the rear seat. Depending > on its mass relative to the H2 tanks, that might raise questions about the > car's center of gravity. > > In a collision the hydrogen tank valves supposedly shut off. Given the > location of the transverse tanks, though, I have to wonder how well they'd > hold together in a high speed side T-bone by a 3-ton jacked-up pickup. > > The hydrogn tanks have an EXPIRATION DATE! It's posted on the inside of > the fuel door, and "Vehicles with expired hydrogen tanks must not be driven > or refueled until the hydrogen tanks are replaced." I wonder what that > costs. > > The manual has 113 pages about using the "driving support system," but only > 2-1/2 pages of fuel cell and hydrogen warnings. In that section we find > such gems as: > > "If you notice gas leaking or any other malfunction, immediately stop the > vehicle in a safe and well-ventilated place, exit the vehicle, and stay far > away from it." (Interesting that that use of the word "ventilated" wasn't > in the index.) > > "In case of a vehicle fire, the hydrogen gas in the tanks is released angled > downward on the right side and rear of the vehicle, in order to reduce > damage to the hydrogen tanks. Stay away from the vehicle and do not stand > on either the right side or the rear of the vehicle." (Maybe it's just my > ignorance, but that doesn't sound good at all.) > > "If your vehicle needs to be towed, do so with the rear wheels lifted. If > the wheels are touching the ground, the motor may continue to generate > electricity. This may cause a fire." > > "If the traction battery is not properly collected [by a dealer], the > following may occur, resulting in death or serious injury: The traction > battery may be illegally disposed [of] or dumped, and it is hazardous to the > environment." > > "Do not carry large amounts of water such as water cooler bottles in the > vehicle. If water spills onto the traction battery, the battery may be > damaged." > > Also, "Never drink the water coming out of the tailpipe." :-) > > Elsewhere in the manual: "When starting the fuel cell system during cold > weather, 'FCV System Due to Freezing Stop in a Safe Place See Owner Manual' > may be displayed in the multifunction display. The fuel cell system is > frozen and cannot be started. See your Toyota dealer." > > All quite interesting. But, again, not a word about ventilating your garage > when you park a Mirai there. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who > can't mind their own business, because they have no business of > their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has. > > --William Burroughs > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
