I'm not sure I follow your reasoning, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Turing subset of my world has additional constraints - namely the worlds seen by observers whose O(x)'s are prefix machines, not just maps.
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:56:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > Le 10-juin-05, ? 14:59, Patrick Leahy a ?crit : > > >>Russell Standish: > >>If the AP applies to the Sims Mark VII, then their reality will be a > >>description containing a "body" corresponding to their intelligences. > >>They will not be aware of the PC that their description is being > >>generated on. We, who inhabit the world with the PC will not be aware > >>of the countless other PCs, Macs, Xboxes, Eniacs, Turing machines, > >>pebbles in Zen monasteries etc running Sims Mark VII. So the PC > >>itself is actually irrelevant from the internal perspective of the > >>Sims. > > > >Well at least we agree on that. No strange loops in this picture, so > >it is unlike the picture you outline in your paper. > > > > > Aargh .... Bad luck! A point where I disagree with both Schmidhuber > *and* Standish, at least here apparently. > > To explain I must assume comp and ... (for one) explicitly the *result* > of my thesis. In a nutshell: it is that, if comp is assumed, then the > correct law of physics are derivable from comp. (it makes comp > testable: derive physics from comp and compare with empirical physics). > I will call the physics derived from comp: the comp-physics. > > Please admit this if only for the sake of the argument. > > Suppose I build a simulated city with some self-aware entities evolving > in that simulated environment. Then > > Either I simulate the correct comp physics, then apparently the > simulated entity cannot know they are simulated by me, but actually > this sentence has no meaning, because they are simulated by 2^aleph_0 > immaterial stories (constituting arithmetical truth), so it is only in > a weak sense that they are failed. (actually it is not even possible to > simulate comp physics except in the "ridiculous" sense of running > (really) the universal dovetailer. > > Or I simulate incorrect comp physics, then the only way we could say > the simulated entity are failed is > 1) either by killing them (in some absolute way) when they discover > discrepancies between the comp-physics they can find by herself and > their fake environment. But in that case their story is finite and its > measure can be shown equal to 0. Or > 2) eithert I keep up correcting the simulation, but then in the limit I > don't fail them. Or I limit the cognitive ability of the entities, but > then either I will failed to genuinely fail them, or I will make them > inconsistent (and here too the measure can be shown equal to zero, and > that is related to the non-cul-sac phenomenon). > > > It is an amazing positive consequence of machine's incompleteness that > you cannot genuinely failed any (relatively simulated or not) machine > having enough introspection power for a "very long time". > > Apparently, In machine's platonia, all lies leads soon or later to a > (recognizable) catastroph. > > Tp prevent falling into an inconsistency, this last conclusion follows > from comp, and remember that if comp is correct we cannot "know" it is > correct, and we cannot probably know that all lies leads soon or later > to a (recognizable) catastroph. But if you *bet* on comp, you can bet > on it! > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- *PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you may safely ignore this attachment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile) Mathematics 0425 253119 (") UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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