On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 10:30:11PM -0700, Jonathan Colvin wrote: > > Nope, I'm thinking of dualism as "the mind (or consciousness) is separate > from the body". Ie. The mind is not identical to the body. >
These two statements are not equivalent. You cannot say that the fist is separate from the hand. Yet the fist is not identical to the hand. Another example. You cannot say that a smile is separate from someone's mouth. Yet a smile is not identical to the mouth. > > > >> But unless I am an immaterial soul or other sort of > >cartesian entity, > >> this is not possible. > > > >I disagree completely. You will need to argue your case hard > >and fast on this one. > > See below. > Yah - I'm still waiting... > > > >> If I am simply my body, then the > >> statement "I could have been someone else" is as ludicrous > >as pointing > >> to a tree and saying "Why is that tree, that tree? Why couldn't it > >> have been a different tree? Why couldn't it have been a lion?" > >> > >> Jonathan Colvin > > > >The tree, if conscious, could ask the question of why it isn't > >a lion. The only thing absurd about that question is that we > >know trees aren't conscious. > > That seems an absurd question to me. How could a tree be a lion? Unless the > tree's consciousness is not identical with its body (trunk, I guess), this > is a meaningless question. To ask that question *assumes* a dualism. It's a > subtle dualism, to be sure. > Of course a mind is not _identical_ to a body. What an absurd thing to say. If your definition of dualism is that mind and body are not identical, then this is a poor definition indeed. It is tautologically true. My definition would be something along the lines of minds and bodies have independent existence - ie positing the existence of disembodied minds is dualism. Such an assumption is not required to apply the Doomsday argument. I may make such assumptions in other areas though - such as wondering why the Anthropic Principle is valid. Not dualism implies the Anthropic Principle. > As a little boy once asked, "Why are lions, lions? Why aren't lions ants?" > > Jonathan Colvin > I have asked this question of myself "Why I am not an ant?". The answer (by the Doomsday Argument) is that ants are not conscious. The question, and answer is quite profound. -- *PS: A number of people ask me about the attachment to my email, which is of type "application/pgp-signature". Don't worry, it is not a virus. It is an electronic signature, that may be used to verify this email came from me if you have PGP or GPG installed. Otherwise, you may safely ignore this attachment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 8308 3119 (mobile) Mathematics 0425 253119 (") UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks International prefix +612, Interstate prefix 02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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