On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 08:04:40AM -0700, John M wrote:
>
> Russell,
> thanks for your fime and effort to reply. 3 things:
>
> 1. You picked my Hawkng typo, I have many more. I do
> recall that post and it gives me while writing, the
> subconscious vacillation: which version is the right
> and which the left? Very rarely do I wright his name.
Well I was having a little "dig" at you - not being at all serious
about it...
>
> 2. You use usable (used) physics views in a topic way
> away from classical physics views, puting a systems
> talk into space-time measuring with a morphology I
> cannot (don't want to) follow in this thread.
>
This is the usual definition and context of the term "closed system".
Of course the term closed means many other things: a closed set for
instance, or "closure" in formal systems (which means the formal system
is complete). But I always thought we were talking about the
thermodynamic meaning.
> 3. In your last par you said it: "isolated from the
> rest of the unkiverse" exactly the singularity I DO
> identify with Tom's description of a "closed system".
>
But I'm not sure a singularity is a closed system (the thermodynamics
meaning anyway).
> And 2Qs:
> Yours:
> > What is an unknowable closed system?<
> If nothing (including information) "comes out" it must
> be pretty "unknowable". In that ballgame ou suppose:
> it turns "open" from "c;osed" and then again "closed",
> I assume it disappears from our observation. I see no
> indication that it keeps the same coordinates when
> dissappeared as we found kit at when it was "open".
> The coordunates you want to find it at dissipate as
> well.
I don't see why this should happen - perhaps it happens sometimes, but
not to classical thermodynamics systems.
> Not to mention the changes "or" world ujndergoes to...
> Mine:
> RSt:> Usually because it doesn't move :) Consider
> > something inside a shielded container in a
> vacuum...<
> How is "move" identified in connection with (my
> version of) closed system (singularity) with no
> interconnection in space lor time of OUR habiturl
> system? Assigning coordinates to "no-info" sounds
> funny. And the shielded vacuum container is Physics
> 101.
>
> I am on a different track...
>
> Regards
>
> John M
>
I suspect I don't follow you at all...
--
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