Thanks, Fellow Uncertain (agnostic...). Let me quote to your question at the
end the maxim from Mark's post:
"I think therefore I am right!" - Angelica [Rugrat]
(whatever that came from. Of course we value more our (halfbaked?) opinion
than the wisdom of others.People die for it.
With the religious marvels: I look at them with awe, cannot state "it is
impossible" because 'they' start out beyond reason and say what they please.
The sorry thing is, when a crowd takes it too seriously and kill, blow up, beat
or burn live human beings in that 'belief'. Same, if for money.
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: Stathis Papaioannou
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: The Meaning of Life
I don't "know" a right position from a wrong one either, I'm only trying to
make the best guess I can given the evidence. Sometimes I really have no idea,
like choosing which way a tossed coin will come up. Other times I do have
evidence on which to base a belief, such as the belief that the world was not
in fact created in six 24-hr days. It is certainly possible that I am wrong,
and the evidence for a very old universe has either been fabricated or grossly
misinterpreted, but I would bet on being right. Wouldn't you also, if something
you valued depended on the bet?
Stathis Papaioannou
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Meaning of Life
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:28:25 -0500
And you, Stathis, are very kind to assume that I "know' a right position
from a wromng one. I may be in indecision before I denigrate...
On the contrary. if someone 'believes' the 6 day creation, I start
speculating WHAT "days" they could have been metaphorically, starfting before
the solar system led us to our present ways of scheduling. Etc. Etc. Accepting
that whatever we 'believe' is our epistemic achievement, anything 'from
yesterday' might have been 'right' (maybe except the old Greeks - ha ha). in
their own rites.
Sometimes I start an argument about a "different" (questionable?) belief
just to tickle out arguments which I did not consider earlier. But that is my
dirty way.
I am a bad judge and always ready to reconsider.
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: Stathis Papaioannou
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 5:54 PM
Subject: RE: The Meaning of Life
John,
Some people, including the mentally ill, do have multiple inconsistent
belief systems, but to me that makes it clear that at least one of their
beliefs must be wrong - even in the absence of other information. You're much
kinder to alternative beliefs than I am, but in reality, you *must* think that
some beliefs are wrong, otherwise you would hold those beliefs! For example, if
you say you don't personally believe the earth was created in six days, but
respect the right of others to believe that it was, what you're really saying
is that you respect the right of others to have a false belief. I have no
dispute with that, as long as it is acknowledged.
Stathis Papaioannou
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Meaning of Life
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:07:52 -0500
Stathiws,
no question about that. What I was trying to stress was the futility of
arguing from one belief system (and stressing its solely expanded "truth")
against a different "truth and evidence" carrying OTHER belief system.
BTW: don't schyzophrenics (maybe multiple personalitics) accept
(alternately) ALL the belief systems they carry? (=layman asking the
professional).
IMO we all (i.e. thinking people) are schizophrenix with our rather
elastic ways of intelligence. Beatus ille qui est "onetrackminded"..(the 9th
beatitude).
To your initial sentence: do you believe (in YOUR criteria of your
beliefs) that TWO people may have absolutely identical beliefs? I am almost
certain that as your immune system, DNA, fingerprint and the other zillion
characteristics are not identical to those of other animals, the mental makeup
is similarly unique.
We are not zombies of a mechanically computerized machine-identity
(Oops, no reference to Loeb). Duo si faciunt (cogitant?) idem, non est idem.
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: Stathis Papaioannou
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: The Meaning of Life
John,
You shouldn't have one criterion for your own beliefs and a different
criterion for everyone else's. If Christians said, "those old Greeks sang songs
about their gods' miraculous exploits, really seemed to believe in them, and on
top of that were pretty smart, so I guess everything in the Iliad and Odyssey
must be true", then they would be consistently applying the standards they
apply to the Bible. Of course, they don't: other peoples' religious beliefs are
subjected to rational scrutiny and (rightly) found wanting, but their own
beliefs are special.
Stathis Papaioannou
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 09:17:57 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Meaning of Life
Stathis:
is it not a misplaced effort to argue from one set of belief system
ONLY with a person
who carries two (or even more)? I had a brother-in-law, a devout
catholic and an excellent
biochemist and when I asked him how can he adjust the two in one
mind, he answered:
"I never mix the two together". Tom is an excellent natural
scientist and has brilliant
arguments in it, as long as it comes to his 'other' belief system -
what he, quite
inderstandably - does not want to give up.
We all have 'second belief bases' in our multiple schizophrenia of
intelligence.
Some have 'Platonia', some 'primitive matter view' - it is your
profession.
Do you really think you can penetrate one by arguments from another?
John M
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