On 25 Sep 2010, at 18:06, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 9/25/2010 12:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Umm, I had no idea that this would be so difficult to understand! I
am claiming that if there does not exist a means to determine a
difference then no difference can be said to exist. This is just a
restatement of the principle of identity of indiscernibles. If the
totality of all that exists is such that it does not exclude any
possibility then it is infinite and as such would have that
property of infinities, namely that any proper subset of that
infinity is isomorphic with the infinity itself. This is equivalent
to saying that an infinity is such that is cannot distinguish
itself as a whole from any "part" of itself. To distinguish
objects from each other there must be some form of deviation and/or
weakening from this isomorphism relationship.
This is wrong. Proper subsets of infinite sets may well be finite,
{1,2} is a proper subset of the integers.
Perhaps Stephen meant infinite subset, in which case it is correct for
N or any enumerable set (N is isomorphe (in bijection) with all its
infinite proper and improper subsets). But still incorrect in general.
N is an infinite proper subset of R. All infinite set injects properly
in bigger sets; by Cantor theorem.
People are usually more intrigued by improper subset. That {1, 2} is
included in {1, 2, 3} is normal, but that {1, 2, 3} is included in {1,
2, 3} astonished the beginners. Of course A is included in B means
just that x in A implies x in B.
I guess everyone know the "argument" that cannabis is a gateway drug.
I goes like that: 90 % of the heroine user have begun with Cannabis.
Of course it is non valid. 100% of the heroin users have begun with
water. This does not imply that water is a gateway product to heroin.
To evaluate if cannabis leads to heroin, you have to count the
proportion of heroin user in the cannabis smoker population; not to
count the number of cannabis smoker among the heroin user. This error
is a confusion between A included in B and B included in A, or between
(x in A -> x in B) with (x in B -> x in A)..
That error is widespread and is due to local associative reasoning
(itself due to Darwinian selection). Logical validity distinguish the
relevant association, making some emotional association irrelevant,
despite natural predisposition.
You can be sure that innocent people have been condemned to the death
penalty due to that error.
Paul Valery said that in life the only choice you have is the choice
between logic and war. He said: ask for proof, and if you don't get
them understand that some people are doing a war against you. Proof,
said Valery, is elementary politeness.
I think logic is a tool for preventing manipulation indeed. But alas
logic is not well taught nor even applied in the human affair. It is a
false secret that nobody has found any evidence that cannabis is toxic
or addictive so they insist: it is gateway drug, and parents can blame
cannabis for leading their children to heroin, but it is a mistake, an
error, a confusion between p -> q and q -> p. I am paid for giving bad
notes to students, but in the health politics it is done all the time,
since more than a century. By doing such error you can manipulate
people for fearing or hating anything, and do the war to anyone, just
use emotional association.
Actually when you do the correct statistics, despite illegality there
is no evidence at all that cannabis lead to other drug, on the
contrary it seems to prevent it slightly (and would be more so if
legalized probably).
The whole prohibition stuff is a complete hoax. Prohibition of a drug
literally creates a huge non taxed black market. Prohibitionism does
not protect the children, it makes them the main target of that
unregulated market. It creates the drug problem. It leads also to
misinformation. If all the drug were legalized and taxed with respect
to their damage cost, people would quickly understand what are the
real dangerous drug, and I bet many would be astonished. Democracy did
not prevent brain washing. Cannabis and salvia divinorum are about
infinitely less dangerous than aspirin or caffeine. The hardest drug
today are alcohol and tobacco, mainly.
I'm optimist. The prohibition of drug policy will crash down like
Berlin wall. Too much lies accumulate.
OK, apology for my rambling. It is not completely unrelated to
löbianity though, if you consider "good" as being a löbian virtue. No
one can decide for you what is good or bad for you, in the world of
ideally self-referential correct machines. It is natural respect by
modesty of the ever known first person. Löbianity would imply a form
of libertarianity 'for the others', like it implies already a form of
universal dissidence fo one self (as I explained once in a post to
John). Machine's theology might be very *practically* deeply
antireductionist. Consciousness is the possibility of waking up.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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