On 22 Mar 2011, at 17:26, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/22/2011 7:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Clearly qualia is a problem, have no idea how it could emerge.
I can explain why universal machine have qualia. It comes from the
self-reference logic. But only "rich" machine (the Löbian one), can
talk and develop discourse about their qualia, and have to be
astonished about them, until they bet that they are machines.
Qualia are sort of automated gap-filling in self-perception. They
obey a qualia logic,
What logic is that?
The logic is described by X1*. That is, the eighth arithmetical
hypostase. It is the logic of Bp & Dp & p, with p arithmetical sigma_1
propositions.
Dp makes the belief (Bp) "physical", and "& p" makes is "true". (and
being sigma_1 makes it accessible by the UD).
Do you take qualia to imply *conscious* perception?
Yes. I take qualia as implying conscious perception. But consciousness
can exist without qualia (I think). A long time ago, I would have
said that consciousness needs at least the quale of duration, but I am
no more sure on that.
Or do you assume consciousness is an internal discourse?
No. But Löbian machine can develop discourse about them. Qualia
typically escapes words, but some can be related to perceptible
fields, like colors, or like proprio-perception (the feeling to occupy
a place in space).
Bruno
Brent
and mechanism makes the quanta a particular case of qualia. This is
even too much 'subjectivist' to me, but then I have no way to
escape logical conclusions.
On the other hand, biologists claim that even bacteria can perceive
http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2011/01/perception-feedback-and-qualia.html
Do those biologists pretend that bacteria have qualia? I have not
much evidence, but I would bet they do, as little universal system
sharing our histories. I have more evidence that paramecia have
qualia, by they more complex behaviors, and appearance of some
amount of information flux crossing the cell. But that might be
some sort of human projection, and I have no certainty.
In case of doubt, despite it might look a bit naïve, it is
preferable to bet that an entity has qualia, than to bet the
contrary. This might avoid suffering.
Bruno
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