On Apr 2, 9:41 pm, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Apr 2, 1:33 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/2/2012 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Apr 2, 12:03 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > >> On 4/2/2012 7:14 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > >>>>> If all movement was involuntary in the > > >>>>>> > first place then there would be no significant difference > > >>>>>> between > > >>>>>> > passively watching yourself move and passively watching > > >>>>>> yourself not > > >>>>>> > move > > >>>>>> > If we had no free will, our belief about it should have no > > >>>>>> effect on > > >>>>>> > the actual ability to execute our wishes though our motor > > >>>>>> cortex. > > >>>>> Non sequitur. > > >>> Why? If you program a machine to believe that it has free will, how > > >>> would such a belief have any effect on its behavior? How could it > > >>> improve its performance in any way? > > >> If you program a machine to form explanatory and predictive models of > > >> the world, then it > > >> will try to form a model of itself. But it would be difficult and > > >> extremely wasteful, > > >> from a survival standpoint, to provide it the introspective data > > >> necessary to model its > > >> own physical internal decision processes. Failing to have this > > >> introspection it may come > > >> to foolishly believe in something it calls 'free will'. > > > > Why would there be an experience associated with any decision > > > processes and how would that experience not be free will? > > > Most decisions do not have an experience associated with them, we make them > > 'subconsciously' (e.g. the movement of my fingers in typing this). So the > > experience of > > free will is just the failure to be able to trace all the causes of a > > conscious decision. > > Why are some decisions conscious, while most aren't...I'm not sure. I > > think it has to do > > with decisions for which we employee language/logic to predict consequences. > > > > If I have an experience of making decisions, then how would believing > > > that experience is real or an illusion have the effect that we see on > > > readiness? > > > > Readiness is measurable. Being influenced by the nonsense idea of > > > illusory free will impacts performance negatively. If free will were > > > truly an illusion, there could be no possibility of our belief in it > > > (belief being something which is only meaningful if it pertains to > > > contributing to making choices using free will) causing measurable > > > changes in the supposedly deterministic functions of the brain. > > > Why not? If the brain is deterministic then beliefs are deterministic and > > changing them > > by external inputs can change performance. > > The belief is about the power to self determine though. The > performance change is evidence that some change is possible.
Change is possible under determinism. In a sense. > Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
