On 04 Sep 2012, at 16:49, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
IMHO God is the All, or better said, the uncreated intelligence
behind all
creation.
With the comp assumption, this sentence makes clear that Arithmetical
Truth, a strongly non computational reality, and which is uncreated
and behind everything any machine can conceive (including the real
numbers), is a good candidate for "the big thing without name".
Bruno
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/4/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-04, 10:28:05
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as cause and effect
On 03 Sep 2012, at 18:22, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno wrote:
"... If you are OK to semi-axiomatically define God by
1) what is responsible for our existence
2) so big as to be beyond nameability
Then there is a God in comp..."
Is it fair to say that you substitute (= use) the G O D word in a
sense paraphrasable (by me) into an imaginary description
'what we cannot even imagine'?
Hmm... OK.
(- believed mostly in the 'religious-biblical(?)' format of the
following part of your post:
"...Of course if you define God by "white giant with a beard, and
sitting on a cloud", ..." )
Such word-play would have not much merit in reasonable thinking.
It would not counteract the 'faith-based' religious superstition
now so widely spread among many human minds.
That was not the goal.
Bruno
John M
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 03 Sep 2012, at 13:48, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
I don't hold to Popper's criterion.
There's got to be a lot of things that are not falsifiable.
For example, you drop an apple and gravity pulls it down.
?
Falsifiable means "can be falsified". here the gravity can be
falsfied: "you drop the apple and gravity pulls it up".
Hi Bruno Marchal
IMHO and for what it's worth, if you don't at least give a rough
definition of consciousness,
you might leave out something some of us consider essential, such as
a subject:
Cs = subject + object
If you don't include the subject, then:
Cs = object
which makes it a noun. Persponally I believe that it's a dipole.
I have no definition of consciousness. With comp I can show why
there are none.
But this does not prevent us to reason on it, once we can agree on
some principles about it.
To get the consequences of comp, about consciousness, you need only
to agree with this:
1) that you are conscious (or that the humans are conscious)
2) that our consciousness is invariant for digital functional
change made at *some* description level of the brain or body or
local environment or even some physical universe.
All the rest follows from arithmetic and Church thesis if you agree
on 1) and 2).
3) It's also probably why taxing the rich ultimnately doesn''t
work,
it lowers everybody's income to fit the curve. A nd why trickle
down doesn't work.
I do agree with this. The leftist idea of distributing richness
cannot work for many reasons. But richness must be based on facts,
and not on propaganda. Today we are living a perversion of
capitalism, because too much investment are money stealing in
disguise. The whole oil, and military industries, jail systems, and
pharmaceutical industries are build on sands. It will crumbled
down, and the sooner the better. But it will take time as the most
of the middle class and banks are hostage (not always knowingly) of
professional liars.
Hi Richard Ruquist
There is no god in comp.
Here I disagree. If you are OK to semi-axiomatically define God by
1) what is responsible for our existence
2) so big as to be beyond nameability
Then there is a God in comp.
Of course if you define God by "white giant with a beard, and
sitting on a cloud", then you are very plausibly right.
A little more on this in my reply to Richard.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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