Just saw this article quite relevant to our discussion: Researchers have used a neural implant to recapture a lost decision-making process in monkeys—demonstrating that a neural prosthetic can recover cognitive function in a primate brain.
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/429204/a-brain-implant-that-thinks/?nlid=nldly&nld=2012-09-14 On Saturday, 15 September 2012, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Craig Weinberg > <whatsons...@gmail.com<javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > What you think third party observable behavior means is the set of all > > properties which are externally discoverable. I am saying that is a > > projection of naive realism, and that in reality, there is no such set, > and > > that in fact the process of discovery of any properties supervenes on the > > properties of all participants and the methods of their interaction. > > Of course there is a set of all properties that are externally > discoverable, even if you think this set is very small! Moreover, this > set has subsets, and we can limit our discussion to these subsets. For > example, if we are interested only in mass, we can simulate a human > perfectly using the right number of rocks. Even someone who believes > in an immortal soul would agree with this. > > > My point of using cats in this thought experiment is to specifically > point > > out our naivete in assuming that instruments which extend our perception > in > > only the most deterministic and easy to control ways are sufficient to > > define a 'third person'. If we look at the brain with a microscope, we > see > > those parts of the brain that microscopes can see. If we look at New York > > with a swarm of cats, then we see the parts of New York that cats can > see. > > Yes, but there are properties of the brain that may not be relevant to > behaviour. Which properties are in fact important is determined by > experiment. For example, we may replace the myelin sheath with a > synthetic material that has similar electrical properties and then > test an isolated nerve to see if action potentials propagate in the > same way. If they do, then the next step is to incorporate the nerve > in a network and see if the pattern of firing in the network looks > normal. The step after that is to replace the myelin in the brain of a > rat to see if the animal's behaviour changes. The modified rats are > compared to unmodified rats by a blinded researcher to see if he can > tell the difference. If no-one can consistently tell the difference > then it is announced that the synthetic myelin appears to be a > functionally identical substitute for natural myelin. As is the nature > of science, another team of researchers may then find some deficit in > the behaviour of the modified rats under conditions the first team did > not examine. Scientists then make modifications to the formula of the > synthetic myelin and do the experiments again. > > > This is the point of the thought experiment. The limitations of all > forms of > > measurement and perception preclude all possibility of there ever being a > > such thing as an exhaustively complete set of third person behaviors of > any > > system. > > > > What is it that you don't think I understand? > > What you don't understand is that an exhaustively complete set of > behaviours is not required. I don't access an exhaustively complete > set of behaviours to determine if my friends are the same people from > day to day, and in fact they are *not* the same systems from day to > day, as they change both physically and psychologically. I have in > mind a rather vague set of behavioural behavioural limits and if the > people who I think are my friends deviate significantly from these > limits I will start to worry. > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
