On Sep 17, 2012, at 3:26 PM, "Stephen P. King" <stephe...@charter.net>
wrote:
On 9/17/2012 1:20 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Stephen - the Matrix video is a faithful interpretation of comp, but
Craig's story is not, unless he includes the crucial narrative - that
of the simulated Craig eating the simulated meal. I expect Craig to
say that the simulated Craig, the one making the yummy noises, is a
zombie, and has no actual experience or inner narrative. He is
entitled of course to that position. He is just saying no to the
doctor.
Terren
Dear Terren,
You are completely missing his point. He is highlighting the fact
that there is a difference that makes a difference between the case
of "of the simulated Craig eating the simulated meal" and "of the
"real" Craig eating the "real" meal".
Unless the neurons themselves are directly and independently
responsible for qualia, (which is doubtful because there would be no
clear mechanism for an individual neuron to articulate the wonder of
its sensations to the brain as a whole), the only difference that
makes a difference are the firings patterns of neurons.
This is the only time information that makes a difference to other
neurons is communicated. At each moment, all the differences, all the
information a neuron has received is boiled down to one bit: to fire
or not to fire.
Using information theory, and known limitations if information
representation in physics, It could be shown that a biological brain
has only some certain and finite information available to it. This
places an upper bound on the things it knows and can talk about. An
equivalent artificial brain could be engineered to contain the same
information and the same knowledge. There would be nothing the
biological brain could know that the artificial brain does not: they
were created to have identical information content. If one knows 2+2
is 4, they both do, if one knows what red is like, they both do.
Jason
There has to be a "grundlagen" level at which there is not a
"simulation", there has to be a "real thing" that the simulations
are some deformed copy of. I have postulated, following an idea from
Stephen Woolfram, that a physical system (in its evolution) in the
"real word" *is* the best possible "simulation" and thus it is
literally the "real thing" that all images that we might have of it
in our minds are mere simulations.
Craig is diving deep into this idea and looking at it "from the
inside" and reporting to us his observations.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net
> wrote:
On 9/16/2012 9:29 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Background: After refusing to serve Bruno's brother in law with the
simulated brain at my restaurant, I decide to make peace by
inviting myself
to go along with Brother in law B1ll to his favorite restaurant.
"It's the best in the city!", says B1ll.
"That sounds great, because I am really hungry.", I reply
anxiously.
When we arrive we find a dark, silent building, full of empty
seats. B1ll
gestures for me to sit which I do and, it suddenly sounds like a
restaurant.
I hear sizzling and clanking for the kitchen and suddenly a
waiter appears,
offering me a menu. Just as I notice that the waiter bears a
curious
resemblance to Bruno, I wonder why he has not given B1ll a menu
too.
"I've already ordered", says B1ll.
I look down at the menu, but I see only one item on it. It is
called "The
thing that you want to order". Wow. This is impressive. I look up
and notice
that what the waiter's nametag says.
"Ok, Brun-0, you win. I'll have a number not-not-one, with
everything on
it."
"Coming right up, monsieur. Would you like Löbian salad or Göd
elian soup
with that? The umlauts are excellent this time of year"
"Sure"
"Voila", Brun-0 exclaims.
Seeing the confusion on my face, he gestures at the menu in my
hand with a
gracefully circular extension of his fingers, over and over,
rotating in
space hypnotically, until I realize that he wants me to turn the
menu over.
On the back of the menu is a beautiful HD video screen, which
pops into
life with a movie of someone sitting at...Hey!! It's Me!
It's a movie of me, rendered so perfectly it looks absolutely
real. I am
being served a giant silver domed platter, which is removed to
unveil a
beautiful...menu. The camera pans down the gorgeous menu of
sumptuous
sounding descriptions of food. As the camera zooms into a closeup
on the
calligraphy, it can be seen that each culinary turn of phrase is
constructed
of beautifully written formulas and equations like G and Gp where
p is
delicious and G = emulated gustatory resource and p = Non-
regurgitation
parameters'.
To my surprise, I now witness myself in the movie pick a fork and
knife
and begin eating the menu and thoroughly enjoying every bite. I
seem to be
making the exact yummy sounds and faces that I would expect.
Turning to B1ll, I ask,
"What did you order?"
"I already ate.", he replies.
As I look down at my clean plate and remember the great meal that
I just
had, I feel unusually satisfied. Curiously I can't remember
exactly what it
was that I ate, but I no reason to care. I can't care. I believe
that I must
have eaten exactly what I wanted.
Craig
Check out the Matrix version of this story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7BuQFUhsRM
--
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Stephen
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