Hi Roger, What makes you think that what you claim is true? Richard On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote: > Hi Richard Ruquist > > Nature has put a firewall between subjective entities such as monads > and objective entities such as BECs or the manifolds. > When I said "attached" I should have said "associated to". > There's no physical, only logical connections. > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net > 10/9/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Richard Ruquist > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-10-08, 12:35:34 > Subject: Re: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis > ThoughtExperiment > > > Roger, > Monads are everywhere, inside computers > as well as humans, rocks and free space. > Whatever allows monads to connect to physical objects > may be operative for inanimates as well as animates. > > So the first step is to identify the connecting mechanism. > > For physical consciousness I conjecture the connection > is based on BECs (Bose-Einstein Condensates) > in the monadic mind entangled with BECs in the brain. > > It has been demonstrated experimentally > that BECs of disparate substances can still be entangled. > So once a computer is designed with BECs as in the human brain > then it may be capable of consciousness. > Richard > > > On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >> Hi Richard Ruquist >> >> I may have given that impression, sorry, but >> a monad can only make what's "inside" do what it can do. >> >> Human and animal monads can both feel, so they can be conscious. >> But a rock is at best unconscious as it cannot feel or think.\ >> >> There's no way to tell what faculties a computer has. >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 10/8/2012 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> From: Richard Ruquist >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2012-10-07, 11:06:17 >> Subject: Re: Can computers be conscious ? Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment >> >> >> Roger, >> >> If human consciousness comes from attached monads, as I think you have >> claimed, >> then why could not these monads attach to sufficiently complex computers >> as well. >> Richard >> >> On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >>> Hi John Clark >>> >>> Unless computers can deal with inextended objects such as >>> mind and experience, they cannot be conscious. >>> >>> Consciousness is direct experience, computers can only deal in descriptions >>> of experience. >>> >>> Everything that a computer does is, to my knowledge, at least >>> in principle publicly available, since it uses publicly available symbols >>> or code. >>> >>> Consciousness is direct experience, which cannot be put down in code >>> any more than life can be put down in code. It is personal and not publicly >>> available. >>> >>> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >>> 10/7/2012 >>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >>> >>> >>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >>> From: John Clark >>> Receiver: everything-list >>> Time: 2012-10-06, 13:56:30 >>> Subject: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> ?>>I'm openly saying that a high school kid can make a robot that behaves >>> sensibly with just a few transistors.? ? >>> >>> >>>> Only because he lives in a universe in which the possibility of teleology >>>> is fully supported from the start. >>> >>> >>> We know with absolute certainty that the laws of physics in this universe >>> allow for the creation of consciousness, we may not know how they do it but >>> we know for a fact that it can be done. So how on Earth does that indicate >>> that a conscious computer is not possible? Because it doesn't fart?? >>> >>> ? >>>> you have erroneously assumed that intelligence is possible without sense >>>> experience. >>> >>> No, I am assuming the exact OPPOSITE! In fact I'm not even assuming, I know >>> for a fact that intelligent behavior WITHOUT consciousness confers a >>> Evolutionary advantage, and I know for a fact that intelligent behavior >>> WITH consciousness confers no additional Evolutionary advantage (and if you >>> disagree with that point then you must believe that the Turing Test works >>> for consciousness too and not just intelligence). And in spite of all this >>> I know for a fact that Evolution DID produce consciousness at least once, >>> therefore the only conclusion is that consciousness is a byproduct of >>> intellagence. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Adenine and Thymine don't have purpose in seeking to bind with each other? >>> >>> >>> I don't even know what a question like that means, who's purpose do you >>> expect Adenine and Thymine to serve? >>> >>> >>> >>>> How do you know? >>> >>> >>> I know because I have intelligence and Adenine and Thymine do not know >>> because they have none, they only have cause and effect. >>> >>> >>> >>>> How is it different from our purpose in staying in close proximity to >>>> places to eat and sleep? >>> >>> >>> And to think that some people berated me for anthropomorphizing future >>> supercomputers and here you are ? anthropomorphizing simple chemicals. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Why is everything aware, why isn't everything not aware? >>> >>> >>> Because then we wouldn't be aware of having this conversation. >>> >>> >>> And we are aware of having this conversation because everything is aware, >>> except of course for computers. >>> ? >>> >>>>> Robots are something? >>> >>>> No, they aren't something. >>> >>> That is just a little too silly to argue. >>> >>> ? >>> >>>> Everything is awareness >>> >>> Are you certain, I thought everything is klogknee, or maybe its everything >>> is 42. >>> >>> >>> >>>> evolution requires that something be alive to begin with. >>> >>> Evolution requires something that can reproduce itself, there is no >>> universally agreed on definition of "life" so if you want to say that >>> viruses and RNA strings and crystals and clay patterns and Von Neumann >>> Machines are alive I won't argue with you and will agree that Evolution >>> requires that something be alive to get started. >>> >>> ? John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >
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