On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 6:31:51 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > 1) Good point. So far, there is only indirect evidence of gravity waves. > > http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=15438 > > 2) Potential energy is more than conceptual, it is the elastic energy > stored > in rocks etc. by misfit, by irregular flow of the surrounding material. > Like the energy stored in a compressed or extended spring. >
It's still conceptual. You could point to someone who has a bad temper and demonstrate that they warp the social environment around them. It could be said figuratively that they 'have a lot of anger stored up in them' or that they are 'potentially violent', but that doesn't mean that there is literally a quantity of potential violence that exists in their tissues or their aura or something. There is nothing stored in a compressed or extended spring, rather there is exactly what it looks like - a motive to restore an inertial equilibrium through motion. Its important to be able to pretend that energy is like a real commodity in order to calculate and engineer matter, but in the absence of matter, there can be no energy at all. Energy is a sensory-motive capacity, not a substance of any kind. > > 3) Your description of energy release is the only fancy here. > Seismometers record the wave motion of earthquakes. > Seismometers are made of matter, are they not? They measure only the changing positions of matter, nothing else. Craig > > > > [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net <javascript:>] > 1/15/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Craig Weinberg > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-01-14, 11:51:03 > Subject: Re: Re: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects > Theory > > > > > On Monday, January 14, 2013 7:06:57 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: > Hi Craig Weinberg > > Why not ? There are gravitational waves. > > > How do you know there are gravitational waves? > > > But earthquakes usually initiate waves > by the sudden release of potential energy. > > > Potential energy is conceptual. All that is happening is that there is a > feeling of tension as different geological > plates try to occupy the same position. Inertial bonds are broken in an > orderly pattern, which we think of as wavelike > because they remind us of other wavy motions. There is no wave. There is > no energy. There is an acoustic-kinetic experience in the context of a > tangible geological presence. Everything else is a posteriori analytical > fiction. > > Craig > > > > > [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] > 1/14/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Craig Weinberg > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-01-13, 09:48:20 > Subject: Re: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects > Theory > > > > > On Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:56:25 AM UTC-5, rclough wrote: > Hi Richard Ruquist > > EM waves are physical and exist in spacetime. > You can capture them with an antenna, etc. > > > Does an Earthquake capture a wave that is independent of the Earth? > > From my view, the EM waves *are* the waving of the antenna in response to > the waving of a broadcasting antenna. Nothing more. There are no literal > waves in empty space. Matter is sensitive because matter is what it looks > like when one sensitivity interferes with another. To us, as embodied > organisms, it looks like a tangible obstacle to our tactile, aural, and > optical senses. > > > > I see nothing especially wrong with the rest of you comments, > you seem to have some interesting ideas. > > Thoughts travel instantly, but EM waves > are physical (electrons) and so must travel at the speed of light. > > > Thoughts don't travel. They are always 'here'. > > > Craig > > > > > [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] > 1/13/2013 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Richard Ruquist > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2013-01-12, 10:33:11 > Subject: Re: MWI as an ontological error, it should be TwoAspects Theory > > > EM waves and fields clearly exist in spacetime. Yet I would classify > them along with quantum waves as part of the quantum mind and > nonphysical. > The photon particle and quantum particles appear to bridge the gap > between the physical and the mind in a mind/body duality or as Roger > puts it, a dual aspect theory. > > What I picture is that if everything happens instantly in the quantum > mind, quantum and EM waves can collapse instantly into something the > size of particles so that they may interact with other particles at > the Planck scale. > > I think this is a necessary step, a collapse of waves to a particle > size, even for MWI, in order to obtain multiple physical worlds. So it > does not rule out MWI. > > But if waves can collapse instantly in the quantum mind, then the > Feynman method of cancelling the infinities of Quantum > Electrodynamics, equivalent to Cramer's Transactional Analysis, can be > used to obtain a single world. The anti-particles that come back > instantly from the future, so to speak, may cancel out all the extra > worlds of MWI. > > Now it took some intelligence for Feynman to make his method work. So > I imagine that the quantum mind must possess some form of > consciousness and intelligence to choose which anti-particles are > needed to cancel all the quantum states but one in any > particle-particle interaction. I suspect that the quantum mind in each > of us possesses similar consciousness. > > Moreover, I have come to accept the notion of a few consciousness > investigators that consciousness is the energy of the quantum mind. I > base my acceptance on how I focus my own consciousness to accomplish > almost anything. It's like just putting out the energy of > consciousness helps thoughts to emerge. Intelligence and free will may > differ from consciousness but such intention can guide consciousness. > Therefore intelligence and free will may have a deeper source. > Richard > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > > > How can you have a wave without some notion of spatial/temporal > dimensions? > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > >> > >> Hi everything-list, > >> > >> I don't believe that Descartes would accept the MWI. > >> Here's why: > >> > >> I think that the ManyWorldsInterpretation of QM is incorrect, > >> due to the mistaken notion (IMHO) that quantum waves > >> are physical waves, so that everything is physical and materialistic. > >> > >> This seems to deny "quantum weirdness" observed > >> in the two-slit experiment. Seemingly if both the wave > >> and the photon are physical, there should be nothing weird > >> happening. > >> > >> My own view is that the weirdness arises because the > >> waves and the photons are residents of two completely > >> different but interpenetrating worlds, where: > >> > >> 1) the photon is a resident of the physical world, > >> where by physical I mean (along with Descartes) > >> "extended in space", > >> > >> 2) the quantum wave in nonphysical, being a resident of > >> the nonphysical world (the world of mind), which has no > >> extension in space. > >> > >> Under these conditions, there is no need > >> to create an additional physical world, since each > >> can exist as aspects of the the same world, > >> one moving in spactime and being physical, the other, like > >> mind, moving simulataneously in the nonphysical world > >> beyond spacetime. > >> > >> [Roger Clough], [rcl...@verizon.net] > >> 1/12/2013 > >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Everything List" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/RBR-D-LjaO8J. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/0CJGbfg90NMJ. > > To post to this group, send email to > everyth...@googlegroups.com.<javascript:> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+ > unsub...@googlegroups.com. <javascript:> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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