On 28 May 2013, at 19:23, meekerdb wrote:
On 5/28/2013 9:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 28 May 2013, at 01:53, meekerdb wrote:
On 5/27/2013 2:18 PM, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno:
do you indeed exclude the "other" animals from being
selfconcious? or - having a logic on their own level? Or any
other trait we assign (identify?) for humans - in our terms?
A question about plants (rather: about being conscious):
you may feel free to define 'being conscious' in human terms, or
mammal (etc.) terms, but the "response" plants exude to
information (circumstances, impact. etc.) shows reactivity we may
appropriate to us humans.
So do not deny consciousness from fellow DNA-bearing plants.
How about the DNA-not-bearing other creatures? (crystals, stones,
water, impact you may call energy, - whatever?)
Anthropocentric? zoocentric? phitocentric? what-CENTRIC?
I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property. You
have to ask "Consciousness of what?" There's consciousness of
surroundings: sound, photons, temperature, chemical
concentrations.... There's consciousness of internal states.
Consciousness of sex. Consciousness of one's location.
Consciousness of one's status in a tribe. I think human-like
consciousness requires language of some kind.
Hmm... I would have agreed some years ago. I would have even say
that consciousness always involve consciousness of time. But I am
no more sure on this. Some altered conscious state seems to be like
being conscious of literally only one thing; being conscious, and
nothing else, but such state are quasi not memorizable, and might
quite exotic. Sometimes there is consciousness of something, but
which is not related to anything temporal or spatial. My be in math
some feeling like that can occur, when understanding a proof, for
example.
Many aspect of human consciousness requires languages, but humans
have still a big part of the animal consciousness. You don't need
language to feel the hotness of a fire.
Then you are agreeing now. If you agree that consciousness can have
different aspects and some aspects may be lacking in some species,
then consciousness is not all-or-nothing.
Why?
Consciousness can take many shapes.
I would say it is "all-or-nothing", like a continuous function is
either non-negative or negative, even if it can be close to zero.
Bruno
Brent
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