On 23 Sep 2013, at 21:44, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno wrote: "of Whom? Conscious applies to person and they all have
some "I", even if they cannot be sure what it is, and perceive it in
many ways.
Here I am again in the dichotomy with Brent about 'alive' and 'life':
'conscious' and 'consciousness'! I arrived at the latter as
"response to relations" - not requiring human (animal?) mentality at
all.
A universe can be conscious if it responds to relations.
It may be semantical as are all meanings.
OK.
Consciousness is more mysterious, mainly due to that first person
perspective. If a robot cries, I am confronted with an issue: is it a
good comedian, or does it suffers genuinely? The answer can make a big
difference.
For life, my definition is just has a reproductive cycle. So, with
that definition, a box of cigarette is alive, as it has a complex
reproductive cycle: it must send a cigarette to the mouth of a human,
makes it inhaled, transform the mind of the people so that a next
cigarette will follow, and so that the victim will pay for making
people building the cigarettes and the boxes, and the cycle will
repeat, etc.
Bruno
JM
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 21 Sep 2013, at 22:59, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/21/2013 7:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
The content might be, "There is a flying pink elephant in my
room." which is both dubitable and almost certainly false. And
if the thought is, "I had a conscious thought." that too is
dubitable.
We agree on this. The indubitable thought is not "I was
conscious", but "I am conscious".
Without the assumption of "I".
Of Who?
Conscious applies to person, and they all have some "I", even if
they cannot be sure what it is, and perceive it in many ways.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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