Dear John,
> in spite of my reluctance to spend time and energy on that nightmare of
> teleportation-related follies - (probably a result of too heavy dinners
> after which Q-physicists could not sleep/relax) - and with no intention to
> protect John Clark (a decent partner anyway) I may draw a thick line between
> the terms "generating a new term" and "experiencing change" in passing.
>
> In my agnosticism I visualize the 'World' in constant dynamic change, so
> "nothing stays the same". What does not mean that 'instant by instant' (if
> we accept time as a reality-factor) everything becomes renewed
> Changed: yes. (=My disagreement also against 'loops' in general).
>
> Considering the changes: they may be 'essential' (as e.g. death, or at least
> extended to 'major' parts of our organization) - or just incidental/partial.
> The way I try to figure out changes? there is an infinite complexity
> exercising (affecting) "our world" (i.e. the model we constructed for our
> existence as of latest) providing the stuff to our reductionist thinking
> ("That 'model' is all and we have to explain - fit everything into it"). I
> arrived at this by Robert Rosen.
> So: I am not a 'different person' from what I was a second ago, YET I feel
> identical to THAT person (maybe of decades ago) which underwent lots of
> changes - keeping the "SELF"-feeling (whatever that may be).
> It doesn't mean that I am identical to THAT person, who could run, exercise,
> worked successfully in his conventional-reductionist science, etc. etc. I
> just FEEL as the same person (though changed, what I realize).
I understand your reluctance. My intuition is that the fact that
rational discussion around things like teleportation turn into such a
nightmare is precisely a sign that there is something very fundamental
that we are not grasping. Sci-fi duplicators are nice because they
confront us with situations where our normal model of "I" breaks. Of
course maybe these duplicators are impossible, but they are a nice
shortcut to other possible physical situations that result in the same
type of problems.
I suspect that trusting too much the feeling of being the same person
is problematic. Imagining another sci-fi device that could write all
of my personal memories into your brain (and that would come with my
sincere apologies): I suspect you would then feel that you are me.
Memories are just more perceptions, but what perceives?
> In a doubling from 'Helsinki' to 'Moscow' (joke) it is not likely that all
> those changes by the complexity-circumstances in Finnland would be
> duplicated by the changes in Russia, so the 'doubled' (clone???) changes
> into a different person. I leave it to the 'Everything' Friends to decide
> whether that person feels still like the other one. I wouldn't.
What if you were duplicated inside an isolation tank? You could enter
the tank in Helsinki, wait a bit, open the lid and be in Moscow. It
would certainly feel strange but do you really think you would feel
you have been transformed into someone else?
All the best,
Telmo.
> Just musing. Respectfully
> John Mikes
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 6:58 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> if you agree that each copy (the W-man, and the M-man) get one bit of
>> >> information,
>> >
>> >
>> > I agree that if that one bit of information that they both see is not
>> > identical then the 2 men are no longer identical either and it becomes
>> > justified to give them different names.
>>
>> Ok, so you then also have to agree that John Clark 1 second ago is not
>> identical to John Clark 2 seconds ago. But things would get a bit
>> confusing if I started calling you Mary Sue now.
>>
>> Both you and external observers agree that you are still John Clark.
>>
>> Either you claim that teleportation is fundamentally different from
>> time passing in generating new John Clarks, or you don't. Which one is
>> it?
>>
>> I suspect you think they are the same, but I also predict an attempt
>> to avoid answering the question directly, possibly combined with
>> comparing me to a baboon with below-average IQ and early onset
>> dementia.
>>
>>
>> >> > then you agree with the first person indeterminacy.
>> >
>> >
>> > I agree that life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what
>> > you're
>> > going to see next. Forrest Gump had that figured out a long time ago.
>> >
>> >
>> >>> >> As far as personal identity or consciousness or a continuous
>> >>> >> feeling
>> >>> >> of self is concerned it it totally irrelevant if that prediction,
>> >>> >> or any
>> >>> >> other prediction for that matter, is confirmed or refuted, nor does
>> >>> >> it
>> >>> >> matter if the prediction was probabilistic or absolute.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > ? (as far as I can make sense of this sentence, it looks like it
>> >> > makes
>> >> > my point)
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm very glad to hear that. But what was your point?
>> >
>> > John K Clark
>> >
>> >
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