From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 1:45 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Douglas Hofstadter Article
On Friday, November 1, 2013 4:20:45 PM UTC-4, JohnM wrote:
liz wrote (Oct. 24) to Craig:
What are inorganic atoms? Or rather (since I suspect all atoms are
inorganic), what are organic atoms?
What are 'atoms'?
(IMO models of our ignorance (oops: knowledge) about a portion of the
unknowable infinite explained during the latest some centuries of human
development 'science'.
JM
I agree that atomic theory is not automatically a description of 'what is',
but I would say that an atom represents the smallest body part, or the
smallest sense organ that can be detected (indirectly) by our public facing
sense organs.
Beneath that level of scale, I propose that the organs and bodies themselves
no longer cohere to our inspection, and are revealed increasingly to adhere
within the inspection itself. This adhesion vs cohesion ratio begins to be
seen at the atomic level, as 'electrons' represent interatomic adhesion
rather than cohesive bodies/shells/orbitals.
Molecules are only made of atoms in the sense that words are spelled with
letters. The molecular word-ness is not only an emergent property of the
letters (it is that also, as syllables are atoms of words and letters are
atoms of syllables), but the meaning of the world is not emergent, it is
divergent, from the top-down. The sense of the word can also be seen to
radiate (figuratively) from the center-out. Atoms build molecules, cells
build molecules, and molecular expression is fulfilled as both cellular
activity and atomic activity. It all fits together (because it is all
divergent from pansensitivity (*another neologism that I might like =
holosemiotics).
Does that sound conceivable?
>> The sense of the word can also be seen to radiate (figuratively) from the
center-out.
>From the experiential perspective certainly - speaking from the perspective
of my own experience of my unfolding experiencing. I would agree this is the
normal state of our being. we sense the world radiating from and being
arrayed around our observational foci. However other states of mind are
possible - and have been chronicled throughout the ages -- in which the
normal everyday sense of being becomes stretched out, transformed,
unveiled. and an endless stream of words seeking to describe that which is
ineffable. Self-transcendental accounts from many times and places attempt
to describe a state of being that is very unlike the quotidian state of
self-identity that characterizes our conscious lives.
How do you think this self-aware, self-conscious, and intelligent (at least
a little) point of view that we experience as ourselves comes to be? It
seems to spring up eternally in us. always there (when we are in a normal
conscious state). It seems to experience reality unfolding in real time -
though we know that is an illusion - and that by the time we experience
perception - and it seems the perception of arriving at a decision -- our
physical brain has done all kinds of processing ahead of & before our
perceptual moment.
How does our experiential sense of self arise in our brain mind in the first
place? Isn't this the crux?
Cheers,
Chris
Craig
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:46 PM, LizR <liz...@gmail.com <javascript:> >
wrote:
On 25 October 2013 14:31, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com <javascript:> >
wrote:
Looking at natural presences, like atoms or galaxies, the scope of their
persistence is well beyond any human relation so they do deserve the benefit
of the doubt. We have no reason to believe that they were assembled by
anything other than themselves. The fact that we are made of atoms and atoms
are made from stars is another point in their favor, whereas no living
organism that we have encountered is made of inorganic atoms, or of pure
mathematics, or can survive by consuming only inorganic atoms or
mathematics.
What are inorganic atoms? Or rather (since I suspect all atoms are
inorganic), what are organic atoms?
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