Hi John,
On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 11:23 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Telmo, thanks. Does 'sigilo' not come from the Latin word for 'sign'
> (sigillum)? which I would trace
> through its way of 'expression of' rather than the American
> privacy-crase.
It does indeed. I believe it came to have an association with secrecy
in my language due to signs used throughout history to convey
information secretly. Eventually, the social norm is that secret
("segredo") could imply some wrong-doing, while "sigilo" refers to a
legitimate right to secrecy over some aspect of your life.
> Your translations are OK,
> if you use the translational ways I wanted to veryfy in their REAL format.
> I would not divert either
> into the 'secretive' side as e.g. in a confessional.
>
> Of course Americaisms raised their ugly heads in many countries (languages)
> - I don't buy such
> plagiarism for a vocabularian treasure of a language.
I don't mind so much. My world-exploring culture was influenced by
layers upon layers of languages (and genetics). It's not hard at all
to find latin, greek, arabic, hebraic, germanic, french and english
influences. The dominant culture at a given time influences more. We
did the same once. The famous Japanese word "arigato" comes from the
Portuguese "obrigado", for example (meaning "I am indebted to you").
> The religious hubbub for 'keep Christ in Christmas' does not "IMPLY". Just
> as Santa Claus is now
> assigned to "English-Dutch" origin, when it originated from a Bishop
> Nicolaus whose pet-name in
> German spells Klaus (Claus?). (In Southern Italy I was shown a
> mountainvillage where - as they
> calim - the first Niclas bishop walked around with gifts to the poor (Near
> Marathea, the name escaped).
> Also Brindisi claims origination according to residents.
> Interestingly the "Santa Claus" craze in Europe falls usually on the evening
> of Dec. 5, (for Dec. 6 -
> the 'name-day' of St.Nicolas) - not attached to the Catholic date of
> Christmas. (or the Orthodox?)
Yes, I have no sympathy for this. Christmas is clearly older than
christianism. It was embraced and extended by christians as an act of
cultural dominance. Now, if non-believers like decorated pine trees
and exchanging gifts, tough luck. In any case, marry Christmas! :)
Telmo.
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > List-Friends of diverse linguistic origins: is there in another language
>> > a
>> > WORD meaning the same idiosyncrasy as what the USA " p r i v a c y "
>> > indeed
>> > covers?
>>
>> In Portuguese, the most common word is "privacidade", which indeed is
>> an anglicanism (although it's so commonly used that most people are
>> not aware of that). But we have an older word: "sigilo". It is still
>> the one used in legal contexts. So, for example, "sigilo bancário" is
>> an old recognized right to bank privacy and "sigilo médico" the right
>> to privacy about your health history. There's also "sigilo de
>> justiça", which protects the privacy of people under criminal
>> investigation. Then you have "direito de imagem", which translates
>> literally to "the right to your image", and which includes norms
>> against being surveilled with photographic equipment.
>>
>> > I know of none in German, Hungarian, Latin, French, Russian but
>> > maybe my 'second' vocabularies are defcient. I also wonder whether in
>> > the
>> > Pre-American English-English there was something like that?
>> > (Anotrher similar US-puzzle emerged lately: the "Christ" in Christmas
>> > what
>> > 'faithful' souls want to preserve in the 'spirit' of the holyday, I know
>> > names for Christmas in several languages and none includes 'Christ'.
>> > Anybody
>> > increasing my knowledge?)
>>
>> The portuguese word for Christmas is "Natal", which directly
>> translates to "birth". It is implicit who's birth it is.
>>
>> I suspect that the Saturnalia, that it came to replace, was a whole
>> lot more fun.
>>
>> Telmo.
>>
>> > John M
>> >
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