On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Stephen Paul King <
stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>
>>> "It is not a question of whether or not that binary string refers to
>>> anything that is true or not, only what its particular value happens to
>>> be." No no no! We can not make statements without showing how their
>>> proof are accessible!
>>>
>>>
>> The proof is straight forward. Run the UD and see what the state is.
>>
>
> Run it, on what hardware? ??
>
>
Bruno ran the UD on his computer a few years ago. I don't know how many
programs and instructions it got through running though.
In any case, the there is a proof that there is a proof that the Nth state
of the UD has a particular definite value.
>
>
>>
>> Are you objecting that it does not have a definite value because you or I
>> are not capable of computing it?
>>
>> Did the 100th digit of Pi not exist until the first human computed it?
>>
>
> Pfft, that is a red herring and you know it! Why even mention humans? If
> numbers exist, then that existence has nothing at all to do with humans or
> aliens of black clouds.
>
That's my point. It doesn't matter if anyone computes it or not, its
computation exists already in mathematical truth.
> It is merely the necessary possibility that the numbers are not
> inconsistent. If they were inconsistent, then all that would exist is
> noise. And we are back to my question. What decodes the noise into
> "meaningful" strings?
>
The conscious programs make sense of their own environments in which they
arise.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Consider the i-th through j_th values of pi's expansion in binary. If
>>> it is a finite string, how do we know that it is a Turing machine program?
>>>
>>>
>> All integers can be mapped directly to Turing machine programs. Consider
>> Java: it uses a byte-code where every byte is an instruction for the Java
>> virtual machine. Every string of bytes can therefore be considered as a
>> sequence of instructions for the Java virtual machine to execute.
>>
>
> SO it is OK to include the java code that generates noise.
>
There is isn't quite noise, it is more analogous to counting.
> There are your oracles! Pick one. Whoops, how is the selection made?
>
>
The anthropic principle chooses universes where conscious life can arise.
The same is true of the UD. Programs and environments in which
consciousness can arise is selected by those conscious entities.
Jason
>
>
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:44 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>>
>>>>> "The first, second, 10th, 1,000,000th, and 10^100th, and 10^100^100th
>>>>> state of the UD's execution are mathematical facts ..." Umm, how?
>>>>> Godel and Matiyasevich would disagree! If there does not exist a program
>>>>> that can evaluate whether or not a UD substring is a faithful
>>>>> representation of a "true theorem", then how is it "a fact"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The mathematical fact to which I am referring is only a basic and
>>>> straight-forward statement like "the binary representation of the state of
>>>> UD after executing 100..00th steps is '1010101111010...0010". It is not a
>>>> question of whether or not that binary string refers to anything that is
>>>> true or not, only what its particular value happens to be.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Stephen Paul King <
>>>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could you discuss the "trace of the UD" that LizR mentioned? How
>>>>>>> is it computed? Could you write an explicit example? I have never been
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> to grok it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruno has written an actual UD in the LISP programming language. I
>>>>>> will write a simple one in pseudo-code below:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List listOfPrograms = new List[]; # Empty list
>>>>>> int i = 0;
>>>>>> while (true)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> # Create a program corresponding to the binary expansion of the
>>>>>> integer i
>>>>>> Program P = createProgramFromInteger(i);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> # Add the program to a list of programs we have generated so far
>>>>>> listOfPrograms.add(P);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> # For each program we have generated that has not halted, execute
>>>>>> one instruction of it
>>>>>> for each (Program p in listOfPrograms)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> if (p.hasHalted() == false)
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> executeOneInstruction(p);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> # Finally, increment i so a new program is generated the next time
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> i = i + 1;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any program, and whether or not it ever terminates can be translated
>>>>>> to a statement concerning numbers in arithmetic. Thus mathematical truth
>>>>>> captures the facts concerning whether or not any program executes
>>>>>> forever,
>>>>>> and what all of its intermediate states are. If these statements are true
>>>>>> independently of you and me, then the executions of these programs are
>>>>>> embedded in arithmetical truth and have a platonic existence. The first,
>>>>>> second, 10th, 1,000,000th, and 10^100th, and 10^100^100th state of the
>>>>>> UD's
>>>>>> execution are mathematical facts which have definite values, and all the
>>>>>> conscious beings that are instantiated and evolve and write books on
>>>>>> consciousness, and talk about the UD on their Internet, etc. as part of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> execution of the UD are there, in the math.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Stephen Paul King
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior Researcher
>>>>>
>>>>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099
>>>>>
>>>>> stephe...@provensecure.com
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.provensecure.us/
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Kindest Regards,
>>>
>>> Stephen Paul King
>>>
>>> Senior Researcher
>>>
>>> Mobile: (864) 567-3099
>>>
>>> stephe...@provensecure.com
>>>
>>> http://www.provensecure.us/
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Stephen Paul King
>
> Senior Researcher
>
> Mobile: (864) 567-3099
>
> stephe...@provensecure.com
>
> http://www.provensecure.us/
>
>
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