On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 9:42 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 26 January 2014 09:33, Platonist Guitar Cowboy <
> multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 8:53 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you guys need to provide your definitions of God and compare
>>> them. I imagine they're rather different.
>>>
>>
>> Lots of things escape definitions. Transcendental attribute by
>> definition: beyond ("trans") what we can reach, climb to ("scandere"), or
>> relate. That includes maybe some smart huge guys with beards on the top or
>> bottom of everything and nothing ;-) PGC
>>
>
> Of course, but that doesn't stop one from giving a definition that at
> least points to the thing in question.
>
> For example "God is something that goes beyond our knowledge" isn't the
> same as "God is an omnipotent being who created the universe" or "God is
> love"
>
>
Whatever floats your boat.
> Otherwise saying "that can't be debated" just stops any discussion, or
> keeps everyone arguing past each other.
>
>
Not if people can agree that god is just a placeholder for some possible x
beyond our reach and understanding that doesn't have to exist, thereby
fostering a climate in which somebody critiquing or sharing some theology
is aware of the limitations of the discussion, and the implications of
tolerance and being mindful of nobody interfering with anybody's private
conception; that would be Ok.
Then these discussions can and do happen. What hinders them is intolerance,
prohibition style thinking, and people insisting on their definitions and
criteria (on reality/god/ice cream or whatever) as entries to some kind of
competition, instead of listening and keeping an open mind, where merited
(i.e. you're not listening to some fanatical bigot but to an undecided
bigot taking their best shot, lol).
You hear about people's conceptions of transcendence (or their gods) when
they talk about things that move them deeply and why.
Not everybody equates god with truth. For example, some passionate surfer
might not care about ontology or consistence, just the search for the
perfect wave. Who can blame her/him? Some musicians seem to situate god at
some intersection between beauty and truth. Or beauty, shareable joy, and
truth.
Dirac does something similar in "The Evolution of the Physicist's Picture
of Nature" in Scientific American (May 1963):
*It seems that if one is working from the point of view of getting beauty
in one's equations, and if one has really a sound insight, one is on a sure
line of progress. If there is not complete agreement between the results of
one's work and experiment, one should not allow oneself to be too
discouraged, because the discrepancy may well be due to minor features that
are not properly taken into account and that will get cleared up with
further development of the theory.*
Sure, these things can all be delusional wishful thinking, but I don't have
to agree with any of these positions to appreciate them as pointers or
beautiful things, which is difficult on this list, where many seem so
defensive concerning their perceived areas of expertise, that it is hardly
possible to have such discussion without people being jerks and taking
cheap shots. I'll always try to listen and read if somebody is at least
trying and searching to be less of a bigot/jerk. PGC
>
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