On Saturday, February 1, 2014 5:09:05 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 31 Jan 2014, at 22:58, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 31, 2014 4:16:12 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: >> >> On 1 February 2014 09:39, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > Is there any instance in which a computation is employed in which no >>>> > program or data is input and from which no data is expected as >>>> output? >>>> >>>> The UD. >>>> >>> >>> Isn't everything output from the UD? >>> >> >> No, as I understand it, only the appearance of everything. (Comp answers >> the question "why is there something rather than nothing" by "it depends >> what you mean by something...") >> > > Ok, so then everything is output from the UD plus output from whatever > computater you are saying generates everything that is not an appearance. > > > It is misleading to say that the UD output anything, as it is a non > stopping program. It has no output in the common computer science meaning. >
Then what does it actually do? > > Think about a dreaming brain. Your partner in bed is sleepy and make a > dream. there are no input output, > Not with the world outside of your body, but within the dream, the whole thing is input and output. You receive dream experiences and you project your participation in them, just as you would with your body in a world of bodies. In a dream, you are in a semi-world of perceptions instead. > but there is still an experience which can be related to the brain > activity. In that dreams, some entities can have inputs and outputs. > Input and outputs are relative notions. Then a machine without inoput and > output can imitate machines having them. > Imitation is an output. It's based on an input. If you have never heard how someone speaks, you cannot imitate them - because imitation is an output which requires sensory input. > > > > > >> >>> How does the program itself get to be a program without being input? >>> >> >> See genetic algorithms for one example. See genetics for another. A >> "blind watchmaker" can make a computer programme, although we can normally >> write one a lot more efficiently. >> > > Genetics are absorbing all kinds of inputs and producing outputs. The > blind watchmaker is a theory about evolution, not an example of a real > computation which is known to be without input or output. > > >> >>> It seems to me though, and this is why I posted this thread, that i/o is >>> taken for granted and has no real explanation of what it is in mathematical >>> terms. >>> >> >> No mathematical explanation for what input and output are?! They both >> come down to binary digits, how mathematical do you want it to be? >> > > What are the binary digits which define "input"? > > > Look up any assembly language. > But assembly language must be input into a computer before that. Craig > > Bruno > > > > > >> >> The rest of your post seems a lot more sensible and I will leave those >> questions for Bruno to agree or disagree, I would also like to know how >> numbers can make an effort (as would Xenocrates! If John will forgive the >> reference...) >> >> > Cool. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
